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mercuryblues

(14,491 posts)
254. The thread is
Sat Dec 1, 2012, 11:22 PM
Dec 2012

very revealing about how some men fail to realize the domino effect of how words affect behavior. They most likely can connect the dots from the line that Obama is going to take all your guns faslehood to the high gun sales. But they refuse to connect the dots as to how misogynic language and jokes help create an environment for a rapist to feel comfortable in.

The pedophiles in the Catholic Church and the Boy Scouts would never have been so successful, if the organizations did not create an environment for them to feel comfortable enough to to violate children. Yes this is an extreme example.

Some men do get it, and instinctively or through learning do draw the line. Thank you for that. And thank you for sharing how you came to that realization. Thank you for not degrading the victim’s view of how they perceive some actions because you personally didn't see it ever happen.

I chose to share my story, because it was a fit for the OP. How the one guy had me against a wall and his friends were laughing as if it was funny. From a young age this kid had a support system for his vile actions. What if his friends had instead pulled him away and let him know what he was doing was not cool, would he ever had ended up in prison for rape? How many women did he rape before he finally got caught. Unfortunately these are questions that I will never know the answer to.


Redqueen, I agree just telling some men not to rape won't work. After reading thread after thread in the past few days and the GOP politics through the summer, it seems some men have to learn the definition of rape. I hope the men who do get it, do not get upset that we have to teach to the lowest common denominator.

There is a culture (and by culture I don't mean man-culture or men as a whole culture) that surrounds and in essence protects these men from a young age. Their education has to start young, way before they hit college and study results like this become the norm.

It has to be pointed out to them that by being demeaning to a woman with sexual slurs dehumanizes all women. That is what the predator among them feeds off from to justify their own actions.

Will it work with every boy, no. I suspect it would work with enough to start making a difference.

one self kick redqueen Nov 2012 #1
Well worth the read leftstreet Nov 2012 #2
Yes, they will self-report. They will not use the word rape, but they will. redqueen Nov 2012 #3
Powerful, informative post! Highly recommend this one riderinthestorm Nov 2012 #4
It really is. redqueen Nov 2012 #7
acceptance=complicity sigmasix Nov 2012 #5
Thanks. redqueen Nov 2012 #16
It's so good to have it broken down like this ismnotwasm Nov 2012 #6
count me in sigmasix Nov 2012 #9
It is individuals, not 'culture'. The Doctor. Nov 2012 #8
I could say 'the ubiquitous aspects of human culture which enable rapists and the epidemic of redqueen Nov 2012 #13
Rape is illegal. The Doctor. Nov 2012 #25
Based on first hand experience- half the Fraternities at Rutgers bettyellen Nov 2012 #28
You cannot be serious Tsiyu Dec 2012 #54
*BRAVO* bettyellen Dec 2012 #57
Part of me is so disgusted with these posts Tsiyu Dec 2012 #59
It's about their ego.... So much so they need to deny the reality and the import bettyellen Dec 2012 #60
See my post to your "perfect" friend below ;) Tsiyu Dec 2012 #62
Perfect reply- this knee jerk defensive stuff has got to go. bettyellen Dec 2012 #63
Partly true. 92-96% of men are heavily invested in the fact that they're not rapists. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2012 #180
i explained and ee discussed with my 15 and 17 yr old sons, and hubby. seabeyond Dec 2012 #187
so much so, they absolutely refuse to listen or to help women out, I know. So sad their egos get the bettyellen Dec 2012 #214
Nearly 100% of women fear being raped. boston bean Dec 2012 #217
Yep... trumad Dec 2012 #191
Oh yeah, Tsiyu Dec 2012 #195
i do not define myself as a gender and love so many of them men on du.... and i dont stay out of the seabeyond Dec 2012 #199
They are the joy of my life Tsiyu Dec 2012 #206
sigh.... lol, seabeyond Dec 2012 #210
good luck to your boy Tsiyu Dec 2012 #212
I agree with everything you said, especially this part: steve2470 Dec 2012 #94
Thank you steve2470 Tsiyu Dec 2012 #168
It's like not tolerating racism Lydia Leftcoast Dec 2012 #250
Yes, and chances are most men on DU do not Tsiyu Dec 2012 #251
I am serious. Rape is illegal. The Doctor. Dec 2012 #256
If the state can convince a jury. nt Deep13 Dec 2012 #235
Actually it is "culture" because acceptable sexism and "rights of women" or lack there of... vaberella Dec 2012 #143
So you're using examples from decades in the past to describe the present? The Doctor. Dec 2012 #270
individuals are constructed by their culture. Deep13 Dec 2012 #234
When the evolution is literally millions of times older than culture, The Doctor. Dec 2012 #257
pretty much. Deep13 Dec 2012 #258
I get that it can be self-reinforcing, The Doctor. Dec 2012 #259
Well, yeah, the evolution of humanity... Deep13 Dec 2012 #264
You didn't read the article Hippo_Tron Dec 2012 #262
That's six of one, The Doctor. Dec 2012 #266
Nature is the overriding motive Hippo_Tron Dec 2012 #267
Our culture says otherwise. The Doctor. Dec 2012 #268
Great post! MineralMan Nov 2012 #10
If everyone would do that redqueen Nov 2012 #18
Excellent article, and an excellent post! thucythucy Nov 2012 #11
Me too... redqueen Nov 2012 #19
Excellent post. This needs to be on the front page. geardaddy Nov 2012 #12
Thanks. redqueen Nov 2012 #21
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Nov 2012 #14
Very important piece caraher Nov 2012 #15
Actually... slutticus Nov 2012 #17
Kicked n/t Helen Reddy Nov 2012 #20
"The rapists can’t be your friends, and..." That is where this runs off the tracks. ieoeja Nov 2012 #22
Thank you so much for posting this etherealtruth Nov 2012 #23
Good read. Hayabusa Nov 2012 #24
Rec. Good article JohnnyLib2 Nov 2012 #26
Sorry, but most men have literally ZERO to do with this "rape culture" of which the author speaks TeamsterDem Nov 2012 #27
If you're in some sort of ivory tower where you e not been exposed to this bettyellen Nov 2012 #29
haha speaking of bruised egos and what not, might wanna reread your frothing response TeamsterDem Nov 2012 #30
Sorry to say you've made your own personal feelings bettyellen Nov 2012 #31
Things seen and experienced are also personal events, yeah? TeamsterDem Nov 2012 #32
No one anywhere said the majority of men participate in this bettyellen Nov 2012 #33
It is in the fucking OP: 4-8% of men are responsible for the vast majority of rapes. nt redqueen Nov 2012 #36
He's just trolling to derail...... bettyellen Nov 2012 #39
Yeah. How dare we consider the epidemic levels of sexual violene as more important redqueen Nov 2012 #40
Sometimes my refined sensibilities get hurt too bettyellen Nov 2012 #41
What a hypocrite TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #46
For you to claim you "never heard a rape joke" Tsiyu Dec 2012 #61
First of all, you have no idea what my experiences are TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #81
I think you're full of shit Tsiyu Dec 2012 #84
You ever been through either? TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #89
My SIL was in the Marines and has a few tales to tell... Tsiyu Dec 2012 #90
Ah, so you've never PERSONALLY done the things you claim to know so well, then TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #92
Wow, keep digging that hole Tsiyu Dec 2012 #100
You really can't read, can you? TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #106
I have defended men many, many times on DU Tsiyu Dec 2012 #113
Nope, not the life of a monk. Never said that, never implied it TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #118
This is absolutely hilarious Tsiyu Dec 2012 #127
Reading Comprehension 101 TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #130
Thank you for hijacking the thread Tsiyu Dec 2012 #136
Whew, now there is an adult response. My goodness such maturity TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #140
Do you feel better? Tsiyu Dec 2012 #144
Oh my. It continues! Well, I guess children's tantrums do tend to wear on TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #147
keep digging, oh glorious offended one Tsiyu Dec 2012 #155
Actually, I've said none of those things TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #162
You have indeed said it's "not your problem" Tsiyu Dec 2012 #173
Please point me to my quote where I said it's not my problem. If you can't, admit you're lying TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #176
By saying the blog in no way applies to you in Tsiyu Dec 2012 #188
Does contorting yourself so strenuously cause physical pain? TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #192
Your own words Tsiyu Dec 2012 #197
Oh my sweet Jesus, just when I thought you couldn't possibly get any dumber you went and did TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #204
My friends on DU are getting a kick out of it Tsiyu Dec 2012 #207
Mine too! Isn't that cool? TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #216
AMAZING!!!!!! Tsiyu Dec 2012 #221
At the least you've had a sheltered life. nomorenomore08 Dec 2012 #91
Nothing sheltered about it TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #101
I'm not calling you a liar. I just said your account of things seemed overly defensive. nomorenomore08 Dec 2012 #139
What in the world are you talking about? What insinuation? TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #145
You've been putting words in other people's mouths this entire thread. nomorenomore08 Dec 2012 #149
Where, exactly? Just saying it more than once doesn't make it so. nt TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #154
It's VAIN, not vein.. And it's ironic you wouldn't know that, LOL. bettyellen Dec 2012 #161
oooh a spelling error. you really got me with that one! kudos. nt TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #163
I wonder if either of you realize how offensive your attitudes are TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #48
Not only are you not discriminating or raping.... bettyellen Dec 2012 #58
Do you have difficulty reading written words? You keep saying I said something that I didn't TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #65
It says right in the article that a small percentage of men are rapists, Quantess Dec 2012 #75
The OP also says "men need lessons" as if we're a bunch of idiots who don't know already that rape TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #77
This isn't about you, though. Quantess Dec 2012 #80
You're seeing something that isn't there, I'm afraid TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #86
I think your idea of "getting rid of sexism" is somewhat misguided. nomorenomore08 Dec 2012 #93
Well, that's not quite right either TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #103
Well if you really want to be honest about the world, you can't always use perfectly polite language nomorenomore08 Dec 2012 #108
I'm not sure I know what that means TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #124
You claim you purposely avoid awful misogynist men-also that you've never seen or heard misogynist bettyellen Dec 2012 #172
No, I said I avoid types which might turn out to be bad acquaintances later on TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #175
you jumped the shark a while ago. but you go double down if your ego needs it so badly. bettyellen Dec 2012 #179
As I don't buy your pompous judgments of others, nor will I cede an argument I believe in TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #184
wow, thanks for allowing me to have my own opinion without the threat of PM stalking, LOL. bettyellen Dec 2012 #190
Does that pass for wit in your circles? Or is it pretty much seen as every bit as pathetic as it is TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #194
No, you're engaging in stereotyping by supporting someone who said "men need education" TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #45
You claim you're completely ignorant that misogynistic behavior happens, but are bettyellen Dec 2012 #53
Maybe if I type more slowly you'll comprehend it better? TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #66
Sometimes I think DU's biggest problem of all, is people's compulsive need to engage in sophistry. nomorenomore08 Dec 2012 #83
That assumes you know my motivations TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #88
It's just a pervasive pattern I've noticed. Nothing personal, really. nomorenomore08 Dec 2012 #102
hehe I don't disagree with your assessment of the net TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #120
Gee mercuryblues Nov 2012 #42
First off, stow the attitude TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #44
thanks for telling me what mercuryblues Dec 2012 #50
It's a shame that some men think that way TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #69
why do men need to be educated? mercuryblues Dec 2012 #202
It most certainly IS NOT the culture despite the fact that unfortunately it does happen TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #215
DERP-you think there's just one single culture of men out there? Every school,company,neighborhood bettyellen Dec 2012 #237
oh my mercuryblues Dec 2012 #238
You are so self-righteous Tsiyu Dec 2012 #64
Back atcha TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #67
If I say "all men need to eat to stay alive" Tsiyu Dec 2012 #71
I see you completely ignored my point TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #72
Blah blah blah Tsiyu Dec 2012 #73
Just gonna slam your fingers in your ears and whine like a child then, eh? TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #76
LOL Tsiyu Dec 2012 #82
Wow, how very childish of you TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #87
You're adorable, really Tsiyu Dec 2012 #95
What I'm saying, sport, for about the 50th time TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #111
You are the one acting like a misogynist but you don't want to be called on it Tsiyu Dec 2012 #119
For reference, I didn't call you childish because you're female, I did so because it's the truth TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #123
Derailing a conversation and making it about YOU, the MALE Tsiyu Dec 2012 #132
I didn't make the topic about males, the OP did that by saying "men need to learn" TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #137
I wouldn't call you a misogynist, but you do seem to be belittling the subject of misogyny. nomorenomore08 Dec 2012 #135
Show me one example where I stereotyped anyone or put words in their mouths TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #141
I think the point is you've been SEVERELY OVERREACTING this whole time. nomorenomore08 Dec 2012 #133
Ahh yes, everyone who takes offense at being stereotyped is always overreacting and emotional TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #170
All women need... letemrot Dec 2012 #97
The point is that if ALL men Tsiyu Dec 2012 #104
How do you know most men do not act in letemrot Dec 2012 #107
Once again, you poor, poor man Tsiyu Dec 2012 #115
what is so mercuryblues Dec 2012 #242
Of course letemrot Dec 2012 #112
I just re-read the entire blog Tsiyu Dec 2012 #129
exactly. that's exactly my point. nt TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #125
If it's only "an opinion" then why are your posts so damn long? nomorenomore08 Dec 2012 #126
no, I didn't "admit" that I'm "least affected" by the issue at hand TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #131
But you made this thread ALL ABOUT your hurt feelings. nomorenomore08 Dec 2012 #146
Friend, take a look at the title of the thread TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #148
The point is you threw a fit about "stereotyping" in the midst of a thread nomorenomore08 Dec 2012 #151
No, in a thread about men's attitudes towards rape I both gave my own attitude TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #156
Your *whole argument* is a strawman. Again, *no one* on this thread is lumping all men together nomorenomore08 Dec 2012 #159
"men need to learn" with reference to not supporting rape is the very definition TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #164
So this is all about... sigh... FOUR FUCKING WORDS??? nomorenomore08 Dec 2012 #169
Jesus, I suggest you reread what you've written to me TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #171
Funny, the blog was written by a man Tsiyu Dec 2012 #231
"Stow the attitude"? Considering what she just described, that's a really self-centered post. nomorenomore08 Dec 2012 #122
I didn't cause their suffering or misfortune, thus I don't deserve the attitude for it TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #128
It just wasn't the thing to say right at that moment. Came off as insensitive. nomorenomore08 Dec 2012 #160
Tough. I don't owe anyone niceties or sensitivity. I do owe them the truth and that's what I've TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #167
The truth about an ex frat boy marine who's heard nary a misogynist word spoken his whole life? bettyellen Dec 2012 #174
Dear Lord. You can't be that dense, can you? TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #178
LOL, your reply is about how you successfully stereotype people who "look" misogynist? Ha ha. bettyellen Dec 2012 #181
Uh, making judgments about who you want to be friends with based on their attitudes TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #185
yeah, mercuryblues Dec 2012 #249
Human behavior isn't divided into black-and-white categories. It's a CONTIUUM. nomorenomore08 Dec 2012 #79
Who said I was "squeaky clean?" TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #85
"Who said I was 'squeaky clean'"? You just gave an exaggerated impression of such, that's all. nomorenomore08 Dec 2012 #99
+100000 Tsiyu Dec 2012 #109
Like I said, it's sophistry. Arguing for the sake of arguing. nomorenomore08 Dec 2012 #117
It's pretty darned offensive to me Tsiyu Dec 2012 #142
Uh, saying I haven't hung around with rapists is hardly giving an impression of prudishness TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #114
I'm sorry, I *still* don't see where they're "stereotyping all men." nomorenomore08 Dec 2012 #116
Yes, it is serious. Your taxonomy of the degrees of offense doesn't diminish what others feel TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #134
How is being "stereotyped" anywhere near as serious as being fucking RAPED??? nomorenomore08 Dec 2012 #153
I couldn't give two shits about you being angry TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #165
Maybe not such an unreasonable post, but it comes off as awfully self-centered. nomorenomore08 Dec 2012 #74
The holier-than-thou part was intentional as I find it holier-than-thou that TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #78
Again, why so defensive? It seems completely out proportion to any potential harm done you. nomorenomore08 Dec 2012 #110
The funny part is that you seem to firmly believe that I'm upset TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #152
You just contradicted yourself. Either this stuff is serious and important, or it's not. nomorenomore08 Dec 2012 #157
Man you're either dim or intentionally obtuse to a degree I've never seen before TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #166
and either he's seen not one bit of misogyny in his whole life, or he's worked to avoid associating bettyellen Dec 2012 #177
No, that's not what I claimed TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #182
I've seen good men completely miss the boat on this shit bettyellen Nov 2012 #34
Oh we have seen plenty if it here. redqueen Nov 2012 #35
If you're not saying majority then stop using the universal word "men" which means all of them TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #47
I know, that galls me too every time I see it. polly7 Dec 2012 #49
Where did any woman here say the majority of men were potential rapists? bettyellen Dec 2012 #52
Really?? polly7 Dec 2012 #55
I'm saying these particular men's FALSE claims of broad brushing bettyellen Dec 2012 #56
You are supporting someone who hijacked this thread for their own Tsiyu Dec 2012 #150
It's not so much about you. More about the poster who took over this whole thread nomorenomore08 Dec 2012 #158
Very well said TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #68
WTF- I said some good men.... Then addressed the dudes with BS ops bettyellen Dec 2012 #51
It wasn't in reference to that particular post, rather to the broader theme TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #70
i have often found your "rape culture" posts to be accusatory and offensive arely staircase Nov 2012 #37
Well thank fucking goddess a man finally said it nicely enough. nt redqueen Nov 2012 #38
K&R JoeyT Dec 2012 #43
k&r nt steve2470 Dec 2012 #96
These rape threads make DU feminists look petty Eyes of the World Dec 2012 #98
Not as petty as some of the responses on this thread (not necessarily yours). Just saying... nomorenomore08 Dec 2012 #105
thanks for the sanity and honest take on things bettyellen Dec 2012 #186
I'm beginning mercuryblues Dec 2012 #239
I'm beginning to think you are right too.... One warning sign it took me a while to learn bettyellen Dec 2012 #240
the sad part is mercuryblues Dec 2012 #243
oh, they'd find another excuse to take over the conversation..... bettyellen Dec 2012 #244
Rape is not a petty issue Tsiyu Dec 2012 #200
We have rape culture proponents right here at DU, men who post stuff like this: geek tragedy Dec 2012 #260
Please provide your honest reaction to this language: geek tragedy Dec 2012 #261
Discussing rape makes feminists look petty? obamanut2012 Dec 2012 #269
After reading this op and the responses I find myself thinking of what happens when retread Dec 2012 #121
Nicely put. nt redqueen Dec 2012 #183
very apt. i like. nt seabeyond Dec 2012 #189
+1, thanks. nt. Mc Mike Dec 2012 #138
This particular thread Helen Reddy Dec 2012 #193
People insisting upon fair treatment are often "cacophonous" and seen as "rigid" TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #196
What would be "FAIR" sir, Helen Reddy Dec 2012 #198
I agree. That would be more than fair, it'd be human. And about past time that they do, too. nt TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #205
You're seriously calling the author of this blog post a bigot? redqueen Dec 2012 #203
he read the blog post all wrong and just cannot admit it. bettyellen Dec 2012 #209
Nope, read it just as it's written TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #219
Post removed Post removed Dec 2012 #218
No reason to be unnerve. Springslips Dec 2012 #220
Re: pinging redqueen Dec 2012 #223
it makes me think of my cousin, I remember how he'd have people wincing with some of the nasty shit bettyellen Dec 2012 #230
but you see, many guys will argue that the pocket of culture you stumbled upon doesn't exist at all bettyellen Dec 2012 #226
I think the pinging is insecurity Prism Dec 2012 #236
Okay, I hate rapists... Deep13 Dec 2012 #233
In spite of the fact that only 4-8% of men rape, CrispyQ Dec 2012 #201
One male 'genius' on DU said since he didn't personally think that women felt any more fear than men redqueen Dec 2012 #208
hey redqueen Tsiyu Dec 2012 #211
Thank you, Tsiyu. redqueen Dec 2012 #213
There are some awesomely great guys upthread, though Tsiyu Dec 2012 #225
Yeah, a lot of awesome male allies... and some new ones too. redqueen Dec 2012 #232
And thank YOU, Tsiyu thucythucy Dec 2012 #253
... Tsiyu Dec 2012 #255
I guess we need a new article too "Meet the Pettifoggers"-- Starry Messenger Dec 2012 #222
lol Tsiyu Dec 2012 #227
Beauty! MotherPetrie Dec 2012 #228
K&R stevenleser Dec 2012 #224
what about relatives? Deep13 Dec 2012 #229
Family is tricky. I'd base my reactions around his current situation. Is he still having exploitive bettyellen Dec 2012 #241
Well,... Deep13 Dec 2012 #245
well, it sounds like he's a run of the mill asshole. bettyellen Dec 2012 #246
Good for you! Deep13 Dec 2012 #247
yep, assholes drag everyone into their messy lives one way or another if you let them bettyellen Dec 2012 #248
Thank you again, Redqueen, for this excellent thucythucy Dec 2012 #252
The thread is mercuryblues Dec 2012 #254
One thing I'd ask, don't women have just as much of a responsibility to combat it too? Hippo_Tron Dec 2012 #263
Yes, rape culture is fueled by both women and men gollygee Dec 2012 #265
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