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PavePusher

(15,374 posts)
86. What "plain indisputable fact"?
Mon Nov 19, 2012, 04:01 PM
Nov 2012

Please cite to a comment where anyone "defended" the Confederacy.

I'll wait.

Wars leave quite a cultural impression, for good or ill. nt rrneck Nov 2012 #1
Making heroes of people that fought to keep you enslaved demhottie Nov 2012 #2
Why glorify them from any war? EarthGurl2012 Nov 2012 #3
Sherman Won And He Was Fighting Among Other Things To Free Black Folks DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2012 #123
Sherman also destroyed countless lives and property in the process Art_from_Ark Nov 2012 #159
On the latter point, neither did Washington or Jackson Scootaloo Nov 2012 #181
Washington raped his slaves demhottie Nov 2012 #183
Sherman is a mixed bag, though. Ken Burch Nov 2012 #205
"I will make this march and Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #226
In history, there are seldom real heroes. Only in mythology. Democracyinkind Nov 2012 #227
I think every "Main Street" in every southern city and town should be renamed "Sherman Street" madinmaryland Nov 2012 #177
No..."Liberation Street"...and be adjacent to Tubman/Douglass Square. Ken Burch Nov 2012 #206
Let the Old South have its memories. R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2012 #4
That old argument really burns me theHandpuppet Nov 2012 #218
I'm not a fan of the Old South by any stretch. R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2012 #241
Many people in the South seem to be unwilling to acknowledge that they lost the Civil War. luv_mykatz Nov 2012 #5
It really is not about loosing the war at all . . . EarthGurl2012 Nov 2012 #17
So the fact that my family has died at sea fighting wars for the entire history of this nation, Egalitarian Thug Nov 2012 #32
I would have to have move on defined to answer that one. EarthGurl2012 Nov 2012 #40
Well, just extend the analogy. I would be justified in hating all you fucking traitors Egalitarian Thug Nov 2012 #46
Sorry, you lost me at hating and fucking . . . EarthGurl2012 Nov 2012 #49
Too bad for you. If your sensibilities are so easily offended you don't stand a chance. n/t Egalitarian Thug Nov 2012 #51
Nothing about the Confederacy should still engender pride in people. WinkyDink Nov 2012 #110
Give Me a Break fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #126
That history was used to help create the KKK...an organization founded by those "rebels" Ken Burch Nov 2012 #212
ironically fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #220
By your logic customerserviceguy Nov 2012 #136
+1 Tunkamerica Nov 2012 #257
There's a huge memorial in DC named for a dude who owned hundreds of slaves. Nye Bevan Nov 2012 #6
But Washington did not commit treason. David__77 Nov 2012 #9
Actually, he did. Against the King. Nye Bevan Nov 2012 #12
If one is a partisan of the American Republic, then he did NOT commit treason. David__77 Nov 2012 #27
But even that correct, moral position depends on the view of the individual Kaleva Nov 2012 #30
But nobody is proposing to put a Washington Monument in the middle of London. NYC Liberal Nov 2012 #58
That may be true but the English Civil War has produced its' own set of controversial monuments Uncle Joe Nov 2012 #73
In some circles, there are some who mind digging up Cromwell again. AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2012 #101
King George would disagree. nt. Recovered Repug Nov 2012 #13
Well, everyone is grateful for your input. Tunkamerica Nov 2012 #37
No, I think slavery is worse, though perhaps less pertinent to the discussion. David__77 Nov 2012 #68
And who called for an end to slavery and freed his slaves. fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #127
Washington did not free a single slave during his lifetime. Nye Bevan Nov 2012 #138
I thought you were talking about another one hughee99 Nov 2012 #169
That too. And he also raped his female slaves. (nt) Nye Bevan Nov 2012 #174
Oh, I'll Go You One Better ChoppinBroccoli Nov 2012 #7
That must just be SC. I've never even heard of it. But just looked it up Tunkamerica Nov 2012 #39
The absolutely funniest thing about SC Confederate Memorial Day is its date... Tom Ripley Nov 2012 #57
By law, they are considered US veterans. Kaleva Nov 2012 #8
Irrelevant. Most people of the South don't care about the names, just don't care. bluestate10 Nov 2012 #10
Most People of The South Don't Care About their Southern Historical Treasonous Leaders? fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #150
Unless you live aardvark401 Nov 2012 #11
Uh, no. defacto7 Nov 2012 #44
I was shocked to learn Mississippi celebrates Confederate Memorial Day. intheflow Nov 2012 #14
Most Confederate soldiers were not evil slaveholders. Nye Bevan Nov 2012 #18
Oh Good Grief fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #141
Most 18-year old Confederate conscripts did not own slaves. Nye Bevan Nov 2012 #148
Right fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #151
Do you understand what "conscripted" means? (nt) Nye Bevan Nov 2012 #152
right fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #154
In case you hadn't realized, you're losing this argument onenote Nov 2012 #202
LOL fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #219
Nah, just another person who understands history. onenote Nov 2012 #223
Oh...ok fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #224
Why can't they just use regular Memorial Day to commemorate their lost brethren? intheflow Nov 2012 #258
Why do people celebrate Columbus Day? Sadiedog Nov 2012 #15
Why do we glorify Washington and Jefferson? They each owned hundreds of slaves (nt) Nye Bevan Nov 2012 #20
I agree. Why? nt Sadiedog Nov 2012 #21
And Both Acknowledged the Pure Evil of Slavery fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #132
No they didn't, not during their lifetimes. General Lee *did* free his slaves, however. (nt) Nye Bevan Nov 2012 #137
Actually fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #139
See Nye Bevan Nov 2012 #140
And what part was not true? fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #142
Claiming that you find slavery repugnant, but keeping your slaves enslaved until after you die, Nye Bevan Nov 2012 #146
It was fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #153
Memorializing fallen soldiers is not the same as celebrating slavery or racism (nt) Nye Bevan Nov 2012 #155
You Remember Traitors fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #158
18-year old farmhands who happened to be born in the South and conscripted into the army Nye Bevan Nov 2012 #161
Yea Really fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #171
I remember a really funny comment Randi Rhodes made doing a show on racism. Hoyt Nov 2012 #231
Excellent point! Bake Nov 2012 #77
We don't; it's a generic "Presidents Day" now. Otherwise, Italian-Americans* celebrate their paisan. WinkyDink Nov 2012 #111
Uh, I believe that you billh58 Nov 2012 #245
There are Confederate cemeteries all over the South Fumesucker Nov 2012 #16
Many of our military bases are named after Confederate generals Kaleva Nov 2012 #19
That was one of my dad's JustAnotherGen Nov 2012 #66
Fort Rommel! :) pinboy3niner Nov 2012 #67
As Someone Born on One of Those Bases fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #191
all the more reason I'm glad I joined the Air Force. gejohnston Nov 2012 #247
No Civil War Heroes fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #254
It surprises me little to see so many "RKBA" Gungeon regulars taking the slave-holder's, i.e., apocalypsehow Nov 2012 #22
Well, work to change the law if you don't like it. Kaleva Nov 2012 #24
As noted: it surprises me little to see so many "RKBA'ers" rush to the aid of anything Confederate. apocalypsehow Nov 2012 #28
My guess is that President Obama and many Dems in Congress would support.. Kaleva Nov 2012 #34
Your "guess," of course, would be wrong: the Democratic Party has been in the forefront apocalypsehow Nov 2012 #42
Your'e trying to muddy the waters. Kaleva Nov 2012 #45
Nonsense: that is called "projection." You're trying to defend the Confederacy, and are now apocalypsehow Nov 2012 #47
Unable to answer my question? Kaleva Nov 2012 #70
Unable to refrain from defending the late Confederate States of America? apocalypsehow Nov 2012 #84
Have you ever read my posts in GC/RKBA? Kaleva Nov 2012 #87
1. The OP is about parks and places named after traitors, not Confederate "veterans," so this apocalypsehow Nov 2012 #99
The OP was about Confederate generals who, by law, are considered US veterans. Kaleva Nov 2012 #162
No, it was not: it had absolutely NOTHING to do with their status as "veterans." apocalypsehow Nov 2012 #166
It's one's personal opinion that they are traitors. By law, they are not. Kaleva Nov 2012 #170
Still dodging, and falsely at that. They are traitors "by law," since they had to seek pardons after apocalypsehow Nov 2012 #175
You are refering to events well over a 100 years ago. I'm refering to the current status. Kaleva Nov 2012 #192
Nope, that is not how it works: answer the question put to you. apocalypsehow Nov 2012 #194
I'll ask you again. Kaleva Nov 2012 #196
I'll ask you again for the fifth time in this thread: apocalypsehow Nov 2012 #197
Your comment Kaleva Nov 2012 #211
So, your answer is "I don't care." That's very curious, "moderate" or no. apocalypsehow Nov 2012 #213
This is a place where people can discuss what they are doing about what outrages them. Kaleva Nov 2012 #214
As already noted: what really irritates you is that you were not allowed to get away with diversion apocalypsehow Nov 2012 #215
It's human nature for someone to take action on what outrages them. Kaleva Nov 2012 #225
Again: what really irritates you is that you were not allowed to get away with diversion and apocalypsehow Nov 2012 #243
But you do nothing about what you say outrages you. Kaleva Nov 2012 #248
Sure I do. What really irritates you is that you were not allowed to get away with diversion apocalypsehow Nov 2012 #249
No-one has "defended the Confederacy". (Projection, indeed...) PavePusher Nov 2012 #72
Oh yes they have. Simply denying a plain, indisputable fact does not diminish the fact. Pro-tip. n/t apocalypsehow Nov 2012 #85
What "plain indisputable fact"? PavePusher Nov 2012 #86
If you have trouble manipulating your mouse to scroll up and down the screen, visit your apocalypsehow Nov 2012 #97
I've already read the comments. PavePusher Nov 2012 #103
"I can't seem to find it" - Perhaps the problem is visual, then. Lenscrafters? A new monitor? apocalypsehow Nov 2012 #105
Right fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #124
And that poster has spent a good deal of this sub-thread pretending that he can't "see" it... apocalypsehow Nov 2012 #125
defend? fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #129
If and only recognizing Zhukhov's strategies in '43 and '44 are a like defense of Soviet-style commu LanternWaste Nov 2012 #94
Benedict Arnold was a brilliant tactician, too: why not name an Army post after him? apocalypsehow Nov 2012 #100
Boadicea should not have a statue in Britain? Vlasov not in Russia? Broaden your historical perspec LanternWaste Nov 2012 #106
More deflection. Answer the question: should Benedict Arnold have a statue at West Point? apocalypsehow Nov 2012 #107
Wow glacierbay Nov 2012 #79
LOL fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #143
What else would you billh58 Nov 2012 #238
because that's their culture and heritage... BlueMan Votes Nov 2012 #23
You know, this is a stereotype. EarthGurl2012 Nov 2012 #33
Nope: it's a reality. Especially when it comes to the entire "RKBA" movement, which is a right-wing apocalypsehow Nov 2012 #35
Amen brother! Kingofalldems Nov 2012 #113
Thanks for saying so; I don't remember what we got cross-threaded about, but I apologize apocalypsehow Nov 2012 #133
actually- it's part of the culture and heritage scene from 'oh brother..." BlueMan Votes Nov 2012 #38
You know that a lot of us have actually lived there and seen the reality that still pervades Egalitarian Thug Nov 2012 #52
Right fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #135
You know this is from a movie, right? Tunkamerica Nov 2012 #41
Nope, sorry. EarthGurl2012 Nov 2012 #48
you don't get it SmileyRose Nov 2012 #25
Exactly what, pray-tell, doesn't the OP "get"? Please spell it out for us, specifically.... apocalypsehow Nov 2012 #31
Weee! Another thread offering the opportunity to bash the South! Trashing now....nt. OldDem2012 Nov 2012 #26
Lots of Teabaggers still want to fight that war sigmasix Nov 2012 #29
Teabaggers are everywhere. EarthGurl2012 Nov 2012 #36
Apparently lots of people on this board do as well, since there isn't a week that doesn't Tunkamerica Nov 2012 #43
Your heart is in the right place (I think) but you have a very poor understanding of the coalition_unwilling Nov 2012 #60
YUP! and don't forget their hero Ron Paul and David Duke were intertwined. graham4anything Nov 2012 #184
Because Lincoln in a move heal the country gave Confederate and Union vet equal status SpartanDem Nov 2012 #50
Well I live in Richmond, Va., and it is changing, and most say it's a good thing. WCLinolVir Nov 2012 #53
I grew up in Richmond fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #144
I know what you mean. WCLinolVir Nov 2012 #195
All True fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #221
Don't forget the Jefferson Davis Memorial Highways gort Nov 2012 #54
In NOVA! n/t godai Nov 2012 #82
I've had ancestors on both sides of the war, from the volunteer state. Neoma Nov 2012 #55
The reason is simple, we never forced the traitors to repent for their sins Hippo_Tron Nov 2012 #56
Not to get all theological on you, but I don't think you can force anyone to repent coalition_unwilling Nov 2012 #63
I think years of occupation and re-education would've made them get the message Hippo_Tron Nov 2012 #109
We have Robert E Lee High School here in San Antonio LeftInTX Nov 2012 #59
The Irony here Sherman A1 Nov 2012 #61
What do you mean by 'we,' white man? JK. On a serious note, I don't think having parks and coalition_unwilling Nov 2012 #62
They still fly the Confederate flag davidn3600 Nov 2012 #64
YES I agree. Same with those who still fly the Dixie Flag. Spits in the face of America & Blacks. graham4anything Nov 2012 #65
nothing wrong with remembering brokechris Nov 2012 #69
I'm bi-racial too JustAnotherGen Nov 2012 #71
And I was taught that we were all Americans--that we didn't let our brothers brokechris Nov 2012 #78
Very well said. Kudos to you. n/t PavePusher Nov 2012 #88
thank you brokechris Nov 2012 #117
That IS very well said JustAnotherGen Nov 2012 #91
I see nothing whatsoever funny brokechris Nov 2012 #119
Anyone who sees "zero difference" between Jefferson Davis and Adolf Hitler Nye Bevan Nov 2012 #160
I am Jewish and the connection between Ron/Rand Paul & Jorg Haider is very easy to see. graham4anything Nov 2012 #188
Anyone who declared war on America fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #122
Because most honestly didn't look at it that way. Xithras Nov 2012 #74
Mostly agree but MadrasT Nov 2012 #93
Ever been to Russia? Travelman Nov 2012 #75
There's a confederate soldier statue in York, ME.... MADem Nov 2012 #83
This message was self-deleted by its author Turbineguy Nov 2012 #76
Wow, there hasn't been a South bashing thread here in cordelia Nov 2012 #80
IMO those "memorials" are equivalent to Germans memorializing Nazis. Odin2005 Nov 2012 #81
So should any memorial for anyone who was a slaveholder be taken down? Nye Bevan Nov 2012 #90
Napoleonic statues too... LanternWaste Nov 2012 #95
All you have to do is wish for something, and the Internet can instantly make it come true, Odin2005 slackmaster Nov 2012 #108
Define "we". lumberjack_jeff Nov 2012 #89
Why glorify Washington and Jefferson? Why have them on bills? they were both slaveowners. nt raccoon Nov 2012 #92
And Robert Lee, unlike Washington and Jefferson, freed his slaves (nt) Nye Bevan Nov 2012 #116
i live in the south and they harbor a lot of pride in that fucked up war....people are strange spanone Nov 2012 #96
It's really stange/disgusting and a common characteristic of the bigots there. Hoyt Nov 2012 #230
The Civil War was a major national trauma, MadHound Nov 2012 #98
James Loewen's excellent book "Lies Across America" deals with this very topic arcane1 Nov 2012 #102
I own and display a piece of Robert E. Lee memorabilia Tree-Hugger Nov 2012 #104
Maybe neither man was angelic, but only one of them led troops to dissolve the theretofore Union. WinkyDink Nov 2012 #112
And another led the army of the South against nadinbrzezinski Nov 2012 #114
Exactly Tree-Hugger Nov 2012 #156
Hey, I have no problem with it either nadinbrzezinski Nov 2012 #165
Lots of shades of gray in the Civil War Tree-Hugger Nov 2012 #168
Jackie Kennedy was a Lee thru her mother's side Redford Nov 2012 #157
Last time I was in Richmond I saw thucythucy Nov 2012 #115
Your definition of "shrine" is incomplete. PavePusher Nov 2012 #118
How so? thucythucy Nov 2012 #200
The portion you are ignoring... PavePusher Nov 2012 #250
I suppose. thucythucy Nov 2012 #255
Yes, interesting, our vocabulary. Many synonyms, Useful at times. n/t PavePusher Nov 2012 #256
Or imagine visiting West Point and seeing a "Benedict Arnold Shrine." It's the exact same thing. apocalypsehow Nov 2012 #121
Agree fightthegoodfightnow Nov 2012 #120
By definition the Confederacy is the most anti-American force in the history of this country. aaaaaa5a Nov 2012 #128
What would you do? Change the names of EVERYTHING? Blue_Tires Nov 2012 #130
Yep: I'd change everything on that list. Just like the schools with mascots offensive to Native apocalypsehow Nov 2012 #134
Jefferson owned hundreds of slaves and raped many of them. Nye Bevan Nov 2012 #149
Jefferson did not lead a war of treason against the United States. Please try to sort your apocalypsehow Nov 2012 #167
How do you think African Americans feel about attending a school named for a white slaveholder Nye Bevan Nov 2012 #173
But that's not the subject of this OP - the traitors who attempted to keep African Americans apocalypsehow Nov 2012 #180
Not a big leap from "glorifying people who fought to keep people enslaved" to Nye Bevan Nov 2012 #182
It is a big leap IN THIS OP, which is very specifically about the Confederate traitors who apocalypsehow Nov 2012 #185
Thanks for the suggestion, but I think I will just continue to post in this thread. Nye Bevan Nov 2012 #187
The real deal is you simply want to change the subject. Let's have you on the record: apocalypsehow Nov 2012 #189
What about the professional sports teams with NA names? glacierbay Nov 2012 #193
I'd agree, but Blue_Tires Nov 2012 #246
We need to fix this.... whistler162 Nov 2012 #131
Do we dig the corpses out of Arlington, too? Nevernose Nov 2012 #145
I can think of about 187,213 things more important than the name of a fucking park. n/t cherokeeprogressive Nov 2012 #147
No kidding. Just another divisive thread to rouse the South haters. cordelia Nov 2012 #199
Read any online bio of Confederate Gen. Patrick Ronayne Cleburne VOX Nov 2012 #163
A few DUers would automatically equate him to Adolf Hitler. Nye Bevan Nov 2012 #164
Amazing... shrdlu Nov 2012 #172
I fully agree with you (nt) Nye Bevan Nov 2012 #176
Amazingly, there's a Nathan Bedford Forrest High School... turbo_satan Nov 2012 #178
There's a Robert Byrd Bridge from WV to OH. Byrd was an Exalted Cyclops in the KKK (nt) Nye Bevan Nov 2012 #186
Those names aren't about glorifying. They're about remembering WHAT HAPPENED, but patrice Nov 2012 #179
The question is does naming a park after a general mean one approves of slavery? Or does it mean still_one Nov 2012 #190
Depends. A monument to the soldiers is one thing. Ken Burch Nov 2012 #210
You know what I find odd? MFrohike Nov 2012 #198
That war needs to be fought, agreed. Ken Burch Nov 2012 #208
Another reason I wish we could "Rec" replies: spot-on analysis. I wish I knew the answer. apocalypsehow Nov 2012 #209
Indeed. Imagine what we'd think of it if Germany had monuments to Mengele, the Gestapo, and the SS. Ken Burch Nov 2012 #201
I've been asking our friends from the Gungeon above a very straightforward question apocalypsehow Nov 2012 #203
They're probably listening to "Sweet Home, Alabama" on repeat as they post. Ken Burch Nov 2012 #204
I just figured they were whistlin' Dixie, but your conjecture is probably closer to the mark... apocalypsehow Nov 2012 #207
You mean like this? Spider Jerusalem Nov 2012 #216
Jefferson Davis' birthday is a state holiday here. Third Doctor Nov 2012 #217
The Civil War was deemed a 'noble' war Canuckistanian Nov 2012 #222
Should we honor the Vietnam veterans? The Iraq War veterans? (nt) Nye Bevan Nov 2012 #232
More false equivalency: the Generals who commanded troops in both the Vietnam and Iraq Wars apocalypsehow Nov 2012 #244
I guess american Indians would have to laugh at the outrage Tsiyu Nov 2012 #228
There's a popular park -- confederate carving and former KKK meeting place -- outside Atlanta. Hoyt Nov 2012 #229
My friend Devon called it "Confederama" Tsiyu Nov 2012 #233
"Confederama" -- That's perfect. Hoyt Nov 2012 #235
I bet you remember the nightmare Tsiyu Nov 2012 #239
Hell No, I ain't forgetting . . . . . . . racist JB Stoner. Hoyt Nov 2012 #242
It's history. Autumn Nov 2012 #234
So if a history is "bad" then it should be erased from all memory? oneshooter Nov 2012 #236
Yes. Let's demolish the Vietnam Veterans' Wall (nt) Nye Bevan Nov 2012 #237
There are many tributes JNelson6563 Nov 2012 #240
You gotta understand, the South is still stuck in the '60's, grahamhgreen Nov 2012 #251
You know what? They were Americans, too. aquart Nov 2012 #252
George "Macaca" Allen named his son LibDemAlways Nov 2012 #253
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