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In reply to the discussion: Why are so many DU'ers falling for bullshit? [View all]DirkGently
(12,151 posts)273. NO. Concerns about SS are warranted. Obama has equivocated.
Take a deep breath yourself, there Scoot. You have no basis to be screaming at DUers here.
Social Security is a huge issue, and Obama has equivocated. He has been strong on opposing privatization, but doesn't clearly oppose other changes, like raising the retirement age or recalculating benefits.
I heard Obama speaking in a piece on NPR one morning, and he lumped Social Security into the general idea of problematic, unsustainable government spending that would need to be addressed. He has NEVER been clear that he stands for zero cuts to the program, or that it is entirely separate from the the deficit, and to the extent that pisses people off, it is his fault, not theirs.
On Morning Joe, Mark Halperin, a senior political analyst for Time and MSNBC, tried to get David Axlerod, Obamas senior campaign adviser, to spill the beans about Obamas plan for Social Security. Axelrod wasnt spilling anything. Instead, he used vague words. What does this fuzzy stuff mean to viewers: the approach has to be a balanced one or were not going to cut our way to prosperity? Like so many others, Axelrod seemed to follow the advice of that seminal political consulting team, Clem Whitaker and Leone Baxter, who advised clients, Never explain anything. The more you have to explain, the more difficult it is to win support.
Halperin asked a second time: Whats the presidents proposal? Again nothing, except that Axelrod said this is not the time to have that discussion. Were not going to have that discussion right now unless the Congress wants to sit at the table and say, OK, were ready to move on a balanced approach to this. Apparently, to Axelrod, an election campaign is not the right time for the incumbent president to tell voters his plans for Social Security, one of the biggest issues that will surface after November 6.
Halperin asked a second time: Whats the presidents proposal? Again nothing, except that Axelrod said this is not the time to have that discussion. Were not going to have that discussion right now unless the Congress wants to sit at the table and say, OK, were ready to move on a balanced approach to this. Apparently, to Axelrod, an election campaign is not the right time for the incumbent president to tell voters his plans for Social Security, one of the biggest issues that will surface after November 6.
http://www.cjr.org/swing_states_project/pinning_down_obama_on_social_s.php?page=all
"I suspect that on Social Security, we've got a somewhat similar position," Obama said. "Social Security is structurally sound. It's going to have to be tweaked the way it was by Ronald Reagan and Speaker -- Democratic Speaker Tip O'Neill. But it is -- the basic structure is sound."
In actuality, Obama and Republican nominee Mitt Romney have differences in their approaches to Social Security reform that Democratic-minded advocates argue are hugely important on both substantive and political levels. One top Democrat, speaking on condition of anonymity so as not to criticize the president so soon after the debate, said it was a "puzzling line" to offer at a hugely watched event. Nancy Altman, a longtime progressive advocate for Social Security, called it a "fat pitch" that was missed.
"There is a real difference in philosophy," she said. "For Obama to say that he believes he and Romney agree, either Obama has not been straight about his position on Social Security all these years, or he and his campaign haven't looked at Romney's position."
In actuality, Obama and Republican nominee Mitt Romney have differences in their approaches to Social Security reform that Democratic-minded advocates argue are hugely important on both substantive and political levels. One top Democrat, speaking on condition of anonymity so as not to criticize the president so soon after the debate, said it was a "puzzling line" to offer at a hugely watched event. Nancy Altman, a longtime progressive advocate for Social Security, called it a "fat pitch" that was missed.
"There is a real difference in philosophy," she said. "For Obama to say that he believes he and Romney agree, either Obama has not been straight about his position on Social Security all these years, or he and his campaign haven't looked at Romney's position."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/04/obama-social-security_n_1940755.html
This is an important issue and people not only have the right to express their concerns, but the duty to do so.
Stop telling people what to think and say. You don't know where their concerns come from, and you have no basis to assume people are stupidly absorbing rightwing propaganda. It's possible that reasonable, rational people, who already know how to "fucking think" disagree with you.
"Jesus Fucking Christ" indeed.
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"Obama eliminating all social spending is our version of the NRA "NOW he's coming for our guns"
loyalsister
Nov 2012
#66
John Conyers, Jr. refused to tell citizens where he stands on any of the issues addressed in the
Maraya1969
Nov 2012
#296
...and why he didn't do this and that is why I pissed at him. Looks like it's rerun all over
demosincebirth
Nov 2012
#308
The 'It's all Obama's fault' meme is so cool though, don't ya think? And convenient, too.
freshwest
Nov 2012
#215
Agreed to all of that. If you don't time to read, do a youtube search to listen to him. Here's one:
freshwest
Nov 2012
#369
Hear, hear! It is high time someone stuck up for infinitely credulous stooges
cthulu2016
Nov 2012
#9
You might as well be vowing to fight off the orcish hordes of Sauron to protect the realm of Gondor.
Scootaloo
Nov 2012
#12
If you are going to spout RW bullshit, you could at the very least get the numbers right
eridani
Nov 2012
#283
It is not "pandering" to say that anyone who puts money into a government retirement program--
eridani
Nov 2012
#327
I will happily fight off the orcish hordes of Sauron to preserve Social Security
Fearless
Nov 2012
#197
I agree. I also just gave up cable television as it is total bullshit.These Hollywood wanna-be's sit
judesedit
Nov 2012
#17
Yes the right wing is peddling this narrative most effectively, clever how they use thirdway.org
Dragonfli
Nov 2012
#25
We agree they suck, I differ from you in that I think the President is a Centrist as they are
Dragonfli
Nov 2012
#42
they are right, but these days that is what they mean by "centrist" even in the Democratic party
Dragonfli
Nov 2012
#51
In fact, some were even asking if it's okay to criticize him again since the elections
BlueCaliDem
Nov 2012
#74
"I suspect that on Social Security we’ve got a somewhat similar position"
MannyGoldstein
Nov 2012
#79
Weak-minded analysis of circumstantial evidence loosely crafted from bits of id-based meme.
byronius
Nov 2012
#27
OMG!!! I may have the computer off for a week!!! I might miss something!!!
Spitfire of ATJ
Nov 2012
#36
"President Obama definitely had a bad night when he faced Governor Romney in Denver for the
HiPointDem
Nov 2012
#41
A well reasoned and thoughtfully articulated post. I hope to see more of that and you here /nt
Dragonfli
Nov 2012
#54
Scootaloo's right - other than long lists of facts, you "progressives" have nothing to
MannyGoldstein
Nov 2012
#78
Thank you for your post. I hope articulate words like yours come easier to you than they do to me.
corkhead
Nov 2012
#93
Carl, PLEASE do not be a stranger here at DU! An incredibly well thought-out post,
bullwinkle428
Nov 2012
#144
Good question... you think they might have learned after the Bush tax cuts cave. (n/t)
WorseBeforeBetter
Nov 2012
#158
BULLSHIT! Other than the President's own repeated words and actions, you Republicans-
MannyGoldstein
Nov 2012
#76
"Just drink the Kool-aid." OK. But why do the we-hate-liberals crowd only offer sugar-free Kool-aid?
AnotherMcIntosh
Nov 2012
#170
President Obama himself went on a campaign promoting cuts to social security just over a year ago.
eomer
Nov 2012
#70
Excuse me but despite your foul characterization of everyone with a memory, he already agreed to do
Egalitarian Thug
Nov 2012
#73
The handful of "usual suspects"... Yes! Thanks for saying what the vast majority of DUers think.
lamp_shade
Nov 2012
#77
I see no harm in making the President aware in advance what we progressives think about any notion
corkhead
Nov 2012
#88
Thanks to the teachings of Manny, HiPointDem, Fumesucker, and Bonobo, who, according to new guy Carl
Scootaloo
Nov 2012
#96
President Obama's Opening Move: Raise $1.6 Trillion In New Tax Revenue From The Wealthy
ProSense
Nov 2012
#123
He does that because if he ruled stuff out they wouldn't "come to the table."
joshcryer
Nov 2012
#334
FINALLY!! A voice of reason shouting over the din from the DU Tower of Babel! Thank you! nt.
OldDem2012
Nov 2012
#99
You apparently did not hear Chuck Schumer speak at the Christian Science Monitor breakfast
1-Old-Man
Nov 2012
#115
Where do you live and what are your most important personal political priorities?
Bluenorthwest
Nov 2012
#117
Because Single Payer was part of the 2008 campaign, and the public option was taken off the table.
Overseas
Nov 2012
#133
Did you believe it when the rags leakerd that the Public Option was taken off the table?
Doctor_J
Nov 2012
#143
Pet peave: people who say "there is no evidence" when they mean "the evidence is not
Romulox
Nov 2012
#149
I feel you. Honestly, I've been trashing these speculative threads.
Liberal_Stalwart71
Nov 2012
#157
Is this the best vitriol that you've got? The very best? As Giles Corey said, "More weight."
AnotherMcIntosh
Nov 2012
#172
this person writes like they have been paying attention to politics all of two months
RepublicansRZombies
Nov 2012
#203
"Obama says he wants to do tax reform and to look at long-term entitlement spending..."
ProSense
Nov 2012
#204
Obama's going to use HAARP to eliminate Social Security and create crop circles. n/t
Ian David
Nov 2012
#232
Well, the President wants a so-called "balanced approach". That means some spending cuts.
limpyhobbler
Nov 2012
#235
Answer: it's a kind of public service we provide for all the sanctimonious know-it-alls on DU.
Bucky
Nov 2012
#265
I so agree. We voted, now to sit back and praise whatever the President does.
rhett o rick
Nov 2012
#270
"It's going to have to be tweaked the way it was by Ronald Reagan...
WorseBeforeBetter
Nov 2012
#285
"From the horse's mouth" indeed. So the concerns are rational. "STFU" call out threads are not.
DirkGently
Nov 2012
#302
One year ago Obama made a bad deal with the GOP. We do NOT want a repetition. There is every reason
robinlynne
Nov 2012
#290
You're mistaken. When Obama talks about entitlement reform, it causes people to question his...
JVS
Nov 2012
#293
Maybe Some Of Us Just Want A Real Liberal Democrat Again, Not Another Neo Liberal
colsohlibgal
Nov 2012
#320
Obama said he will not reduce Social Security benefits or change the retirement age.
Chunk
Nov 2012
#321
No, President Obama Did Not Propose Cuts to Medicare and Social Security Benefits
Chunk
Nov 2012
#322
"It's going to have to be tweaked the way it was by Ronald Reagan...
WorseBeforeBetter
Nov 2012
#351
Back to page 1 for one of the best rants posted at DU in a long, long time...
SidDithers
Nov 2012
#357