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stevenleser

(32,886 posts)

48. No US or UK strategy was motivated by that. Zero. Not because of a desire to do good...

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 01:56 PM

Nov 2012

In the beginning of the war, it wasnt even clear at all that the allies would win and staving off a German victory took a maximum effort by everyone. By the time it was, after Stalingrad and El Alamein and other major turning point victories, say late 1942-1943, the goal was to beat the Soviets to Berlin. At no time were the US or UK planners saying, gee, lets hold off on our war effort to make it harder on the Soviets.

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HaHA Oliver STONE dropped the bomb on BROKAW on Morning Scabs [View all] UTUSN Nov 2012 OP

sounds great Enrique Nov 2012 #1

I don't get Showtime, so going for the book (wish paperback). The trouble with Kindle UTUSN Nov 2012 #3

Me too... truebrit71 Nov 2012 #53

It's fairly clear to anyone who looks at the ETO during WWII alcibiades_mystery Nov 2012 #2

Why then was Operation Sea Lion canceled in Nov 1940? dmallind Nov 2012 #7

lol well if your going that direction then it was the Russian geography and the Russian winter grantcart Nov 2012 #8

Any argument that the Soviet Union didn't bear the brunt of Nazi Germany is foolish. Barack_America Nov 2012 #4

and Stalin initially aligned themselves with hitler also. I am not sure what Stone's point is, to still_one Nov 2012 #5

Stone's point... CanSocDem Nov 2012 #6

self-serving? typical response. A lot of the Russian deaths were due to stalin as much as the still_one Nov 2012 #11

"Victory was bought by American Spam, and paid for with Russian blood" LanternWaste Nov 2012 #25

ok still_one Nov 2012 #32

The USSR was fighting Nazi Germany to a stalemate along a 2,000-mile front while coalition_unwilling Nov 2012 #33

And he hurts that point by driving an anti-US agenda at the same time. nt stevenleser Nov 2012 #30

It's not "anti-US" to want a better education... CanSocDem Nov 2012 #34

Nice try, but no. That is not his only agenda. Contrast Stone with James Loewen who really has stevenleser Nov 2012 #38

Change? Check. Significant? Check? Be all and end all? No. dmallind Nov 2012 #9

and they also shortened the war in China from the Japanese, where the war was happening also still_one Nov 2012 #12

at some point the boo USA crowd Johonny Nov 2012 #10

I am not "boo USA." I am more for America than the jingos. JackRiddler Nov 2012 #14

Stalin's "alignment" came after the Munich accords... JackRiddler Nov 2012 #13

Hmmm DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2012 #15

Exactly. This is typical stone bullshit. Also it fails to point out how many Russians were killed still_one Nov 2012 #18

It Reminds Me Of The Freedom Fries Days When Right Wingers Said French Assistance DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2012 #22

Correct: See my #24. I dont understand why it isnt enough for some folks to just say stevenleser Nov 2012 #28

I don't think it's anti-U.S. or some type of agenda to say that the Soviet Union Downtown Hound Nov 2012 #42

But that's just it, you cannot say that. People who died isnt THE metric of military effort. stevenleser Nov 2012 #43

No one is denying those efforts Downtown Hound Nov 2012 #44

The reverse is also true. That's the problem as I noted down thread. stevenleser Nov 2012 #45

The only one taking any allies off of the equation is you Downtown Hound Nov 2012 #49

You got one part right, his goal is "to throw water ... on American arrogance" not to get history stevenleser Nov 2012 #50

If by "agenda that goes beyond getting history right" you mean doing simple mathematics Downtown Hound Nov 2012 #51

Now we are getting to your error. You think simple math explains a multi-front multi-geography war stevenleser Nov 2012 #52

Actually, I was thinking more along the lines that Downtown Hound Nov 2012 #54

Troops killed always discounts the importance of naval and air battles. Thats why you dont get it. stevenleser Nov 2012 #57

Yeah well, not only me but apparently lots of historians and documentaries that I've watched Downtown Hound Nov 2012 #58

Whatever you may have read, you cannot articulate an argument for your contention other than a stevenleser Nov 2012 #62

You understand the situation well. I have to agree with you and A Simple Game Nov 2012 #63

it would be absurd to claim a premise from that country's naval casualties or lack of casualties LanternWaste Nov 2012 #59

Except that I am not arguing any of that. stevenleser Nov 2012 #61

So, wait... WilliamPitt Nov 2012 #16

History often pisses off armchair nationalists.. LanternWaste Nov 2012 #60

The Americans and the Brits bore the brunt of the Pacific hifiguy Nov 2012 #17

Actually the beaches of Normandy, and other battles were no picnic either still_one Nov 2012 #19

Absolutely correct, hifiguy Nov 2012 #23

I agree still_one Nov 2012 #40

Stalin is also responsible for millions of Soviet casualties. MicaelS Nov 2012 #41

Exactly. There were three Axis powers. The Soviets dealt with only one of them and even then... stevenleser Nov 2012 #24

Correct answer, Mr. Leser! hifiguy Nov 2012 #29

Thank you! I think one of the key ways to think about this is, if you take any of the three main stevenleser Nov 2012 #36

Back To Brokaw DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2012 #31

Plus Americans Have A Different Approach To Warfare DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2012 #26

Patton's approach probably explains why we lost 58,000 in Vietnam but managed to coalition_unwilling Nov 2012 #39

kick Blue_Tires Nov 2012 #20

Oliver Stone Speaks Truth to Power in 12 November, 2012 CNN Interview MinM Nov 2012 #21

Stone and Kuznick were on with Tavis twice last week. Video is available. Bozita Nov 2012 #27

Has this series started yet? Blue_In_AK Nov 2012 #35

It was no secret lyingsackofmitt Nov 2012 #37

No US or UK strategy was motivated by that. Zero. Not because of a desire to do good... stevenleser Nov 2012 #48

Oliver Stone(d) couldn't get history correct if it was dropped on his head. Archae Nov 2012 #46

That movie was a mess Kolesar Nov 2012 #56

Why don't we start pressuring Obama on this RepublicansRZombies Nov 2012 #47

Truman gave us the Cold War and a permanent military-industrial complex Kolesar Nov 2012 #55