Response to struggle4progress (Original post)
Sat Nov 10, 2012, 08:43 PM
Diclotican (4,927 posts)
I Suspect we have to be carefully, both here abroad, but also in the US, the conservatives really got into a surprise when Obama got re-elected - and they are angry - really, really angry about it...
The stab in the back theory, affected german politics all until 1945, when the germans discovered how deceived they had been, from the government who had deceived them on a grand stage from 1918, when Germany lost the war - and the Kaiser had to leave the country for exile in the Netherlands (hi died in 1941, rather quiet, and Hitler was not willing to even give him any symbolic gratitude)
In 1918, and in the years following it, it was the social-democrats (who had to govern after Wilhelm 2 of Imperial Germany, and most of the old regime collapsed in november 1918) communist - liberals, and off course the jews who got the blame for the fact that Germany under World War lost the war - but fact is that Germany overstretch - and lost the war already in early 1917 - Von Hindenburg (who also was the last german president before Hitler got into power in 1933 as chancellor, he was taken the presidency after Hindenburg died in 1934) clearly stated for the Chief of Staffs in the grand palace of the emperors - in the same room Das Kaiser had explained for the politicians, and the military Establishment in 1913-1914, the importance of going to war when it was time to do it.. That Germany had lost the war - the resources was empty, and it was just the will of the people alone who gave hope on any peace on reasonable deals.. He also gave the advice to make peace with the west allied before it was to late.. But then in the same time, the Imperial Russia broke down - first in February 1917, and then again in October 1917, when the Bolsheviks got into power, by outrun the Menshevichs who for a time had the power - between February 1917 and October... The new government in Russia, under Lenin and Trotsky was just ready to say ok to everything the germans decided, just to make peace for a shattered country - who also had the beginning of a civil war on their hands - Lenin's slogans Bread and Peace won in the end a peace - with a price off course - but it was a price, the russians had to have, to make peace at one front - it was to many fronts to fight on in Russia as it was.. The winter of 1917, in Germany was one of the worst in the 20th century - for the most part people survived on potato's and cabbage, and even the soldiers on the front, discovered that the war was not exactly going their way, as the allied forces, even after the collapse of Imperial Russia and the peace treaty - started to put the germans out of their trenches - by the sheer numbers in their forces. The United States had finally deiced to get into the war on the allied sides - and the war turned in the derivative way for the allied forces - even though the germans did fight as best as they could - and the german soldiers was indeed good soldiers - but it could not win against that numbers the allied forces could give them.. (EVEN if it cost millions of soldiers on the front for all allied forces)
Anyway - the 20 or so years between the world wars - was given lot of rooms to the idea that the germans for some reason had been stabbed in the back by the home front - not the soldiers and the generals, but by the politicians, who had stabbed the generals in the back when they was not been given the resources they wanted - and needed to make victory possible.. Even when soldiers coming back from the front could tell about how things really was, most people believed that Germany was victorious - they had after all been that in all wars since 1815, when german Blucher had been instrumental in breaking the back on Napoleon... Who had been a menace for germans - and for the conservatives in most of europe since the 1790s.. For many germans, it was important to give some fault, for the facts that Germany lost the war - and had to pay a sizable sum of money to the victors - and also lost a lot of lands, to other nations - Suddenly some millions of germans lost connections to "the reich" and had to accept be in another nation, something they resented into the end.. Poland, a country who the germans, specially the conservatives was not willing to accept as a sole nation for years - was created by dividing a large part of the then- west-preussen - with Danzig as the most important port to the sea - even thought most who lived in the city was germans - and where East Preussen - the now enclave of Kalinigrad war german - and had no direct link between the two german spaces.. Poland was also one of the first nations, who the germans tried their best to crush the idea of national hood - and where the "natives" at best should be treated as second, or 3th class people - not given education and just be used as manual labors for the germans after the war... After all, they was not real humans.. Just something like it..
I just hope, and pray that it can be solved, and the conservatives in the US are not going the same road as the conservatives in Germany did - full of resentment, hatefully to the end - and hellbent of getting even with the other parties, and to punish anyone who had getting in their cross air... The hate who I experience on some internet sites today, and have since Obama got elected again is rather scary. They really se to be over the top angry about it all.. In fact, they want to take a part of the US, out of the union, and made it into one heaven for the conservatives... And they parrots to the sentence what Limbaugh and Beck and the others persons of the right is telling them.. They have a hate for the voters, who elected Obama as the President I have yet to experience.. Even here in Norway they spew their outright hatred for everything related to the election - and specially to the fact, they LOST. They can't just phantom the fact, they lost... to a black man, and the "dam liberals"..
And tragically, it was in the last
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