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alcibiades_mystery

(36,437 posts)
12. I'm the last person to argue *for prohibition* of anything
Mon Jan 16, 2012, 02:22 PM
Jan 2012

But I should make one point before the Rah Rah Rah really kicks in on this thread:

Posing the questions as personal moral questions rather than deeply social pragmatic questions is itself question-begging. There are perfectly good questions to ask about "prohibitions" that have to do with social cost rather than morality. And social groups do have the obligation to consider social costs. Now, they might ignore them, or determine that individual freedom should trump social costs, but to argue that civics shouldn't also be about determining social costs is the height of the very extremist individualism that has gotten us into quite the mess in the last thirty years. I don't have to care AT ALL about the morality of smoking if it can be definitively demonstrated that smoking increases the social cost of medicine for everybody in a society. It's not a moral issue of the individual, but a pragmatic concern for the social group.

Excellent post Autumn Jan 2012 #1
Prohibition has worked so well in America... MicaelS Jan 2012 #2
As long as the carcinogenic smoke is not forced on my family in public... onehandle Jan 2012 #3
i agree. NO ONE IS ALLOWED TO SMOKE IN MY HOUSE trueblue2007 Jan 2012 #32
You could have replied in the thread dedicated to this topic DisgustipatedinCA Jan 2012 #4
Then learn to smoke a pipe. Old Guy and his pipe Jan 2012 #5
It is still dangerous to your health and that of others. Fearless Jan 2012 #30
I've been annoying non-christians for years trying to save their souls from burning/death The Straight Story Jan 2012 #6
Well said! nt One of the 99 Jan 2012 #109
I'm fiercely allergic to tobacco smoke. hunter Jan 2012 #7
There are no allergens in tobacco smoke TransitJohn Jan 2012 #94
You forgot your sarcasm tag. hunter Jan 2012 #95
Smoke is not an allergen and doesn't contain any allergens. sarcasm tag not needed. eom TransitJohn Jan 2012 #96
As they used to say about Latex, Nickel, Formaldehyde, etc. etc. hunter Jan 2012 #100
Claiming you're allergic to tobacco smoke isn't true either. eom TransitJohn Jan 2012 #101
YES! graywarrior Jan 2012 #8
"I've been annoying family members who smoke for YEARS......." WillowTree Jan 2012 #9
This message was self-deleted by its author Obamanaut Jan 2012 #10
Never been around either enough to really judge, honestly. TheWraith Jan 2012 #15
This message was self-deleted by its author Obamanaut Jan 2012 #16
Cigars are the worst because the end is wet and is a tobacco leaf ThomThom Jan 2012 #64
I smoke 8 to 10 cigars a year OriginalGeek Jan 2012 #90
Good post (nt) SlimJimmy Jan 2012 #11
I'm the last person to argue *for prohibition* of anything alcibiades_mystery Jan 2012 #12
very good point Vattel Jan 2012 #41
I like the way you think... marions ghost Jan 2012 #60
True, but then again, alcohol prohibitionists certainly considered "social costs" of alcohol abuse markpkessinger Jan 2012 #107
The social cost calculation doesn't always result in prohibition alcibiades_mystery Jan 2012 #111
+1 ellisonz Jan 2012 #127
Smoking is about where it belongs now. gulliver Jan 2012 #13
This is an excellent post. bullwinkle428 Jan 2012 #18
I dunno quakerboy Jan 2012 #84
Indeed. Here's a personal story related to this . . . markpkessinger Jan 2012 #110
Good writeup ... have a cigar meegbear Jan 2012 #14
A most outstanding post! Uncle Joe Jan 2012 #17
Can chervilant Jan 2012 #61
I believe you may be correct Uncle Joe Jan 2012 #82
one problem with the "for my/their own good!" issue ... zbdent Jan 2012 #19
Huh. quakerboy Jan 2012 #86
I'm was right there with you, right up until... MadrasT Jan 2012 #20
Let's ban the Pachelbel Canon while we're at it. Manifestor_of_Light Jan 2012 #21
I didn't realize you were in 7th grade orchestra with me tammywammy Jan 2012 #31
I'm back to liking it again eridani Jan 2012 #53
I'm not debating your conclusion, but your premise is wrong. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2012 #22
The way to facilitate change is through knowledge, not force. Gregorian Jan 2012 #23
My downstairs neighbors smoke and so I can't open my door or front windows in the summer. Guy Montag Jan 2012 #24
Sorry. I Thiink Cigarettes Should Be Banned zorahopkins Jan 2012 #25
And then the same corporations that make people addicts JDPriestly Jan 2012 #65
Outlawing the marketing of cigarettes would be a good thing. hunter Jan 2012 #128
Would you feel the same if your neighbor was a sculptor who put a smelting operation in his backyard Texas Lawyer Jan 2012 #26
Another simple-minded imbecile ... GeorgeGist Jan 2012 #27
E-cigs unmask the puritanical authoritarianism in the anti-tobacco movement Prism Jan 2012 #28
Exactly. It has nothing to do with the smoke and everything to do with Lionessa Jan 2012 #35
I'm anti-smoking and have no problem with e-cigs. Odin2005 Jan 2012 #37
Doctors are puritanical? onehandle Jan 2012 #40
That's not at all what I said. Prism Jan 2012 #52
I don't even really understand what the fuck an E-cig is. Warren DeMontague Jan 2012 #48
Nicotine is an almost entirely benign drug, it's the tar and other shit that kills. Lance_Boyle Jan 2012 #55
Like I said, I don't really understand the whole e-cig thing. As such I haven't taken a position Warren DeMontague Jan 2012 #66
Actually, chervilant Jan 2012 #79
Also, chervilant Jan 2012 #88
I remember hearing that a drop the size of a pinhead OriginalGeek Jan 2012 #91
Yes--I just can't comprehend that eridani Jan 2012 #54
We sell e-cigs where I work Moosepoop Jan 2012 #56
Would you recommend them to others? harmonicon Jan 2012 #68
I Would And Will KharmaTrain Jan 2012 #108
Because they're not looking out for the public good. harmonicon Jan 2012 #63
slippery slope Demonaut Jan 2012 #29
Someone needs a timeout. Rex Jan 2012 #33
As well as driving, which isn't a vice, but still causes most of our actual air pollution Lionessa Jan 2012 #36
True, I guess 'vice' is too narrow in scope. Rex Jan 2012 #44
I think that driving definitely is a vice. harmonicon Jan 2012 #70
The human being needs three things to sustain life Bandit Jan 2012 #34
We all piss in our water supplies. Have been doing it for a million years. Wistful Vista Jan 2012 #67
Thank you for pointing out the obvious. harmonicon Jan 2012 #71
A non-polluting rocket, I presume... Wistful Vista Jan 2012 #76
hmm... chervilant Jan 2012 #80
She's a Catholic? Wistful Vista Jan 2012 #83
dunno chervilant Jan 2012 #87
Yep yep- here in Austin they recently passed a law to where you cannot Dragonbreathp9d Jan 2012 #38
Get used to it. Municipalities across the country are passing these laws. onehandle Jan 2012 #39
Fuck that- I'm already starting a massive "smoke in" Dragonbreathp9d Jan 2012 #42
What do we do about lawn mowers that emit millions of times more pollutants than cigs? Wistful Vista Jan 2012 #69
Lawn mowers are generally not allowed where cigarette restrictions are in place. onehandle Jan 2012 #73
Ah, I see. Those emissions from internal combustion engine do not travel through the air. Wistful Vista Jan 2012 #75
I enjoy my cigarettes. JohnnyRingo Jan 2012 #43
Your replacement could be to take up vaping with e-cigs. greyl Jan 2012 #47
Very well said. sabrina 1 Jan 2012 #45
I certainly don't support banning them. We have enough unenforceable laws as it is. Warren DeMontague Jan 2012 #46
As long as it's illegal to attempt suicide, there's no rational basis for cigarettes being legal theAntiRand Jan 2012 #49
A gunshot to the head is on whole different level of risky behavior. Most smokers don't die TheKentuckian Jan 2012 #92
K&R LetTimmySmoke Jan 2012 #50
You are 100% correct malaise Jan 2012 #51
anti smoking propaganda was paid for by Big Pharma to sell nicotine patches divide_and_rule Jan 2012 #57
I'm pro-choice kctim Jan 2012 #58
UNREC! When your addiction affects other people...and yes, the problems joeybee12 Jan 2012 #59
Am I not free to be addicted? harmonicon Jan 2012 #72
I'm on my way to your home with an open container filled with radioactive isotopes. onehandle Jan 2012 #74
Awesome. harmonicon Jan 2012 #77
"an open container filled with radioactive isotopes" Occulus Jan 2012 #85
Addictions are slavery, not freedom. kwassa Jan 2012 #97
... and I'm an adult with free will who can choose what he wants to do with his life... harmonicon Jan 2012 #102
and you will lose your free will when you become an addict. kwassa Jan 2012 #103
You know there are people who quit smoking? harmonicon Jan 2012 #104
I don't think you know much about addiction. kwassa Jan 2012 #113
Anyone can give up an addiction. harmonicon Jan 2012 #115
No, they can't. This is why they are called addictions. kwassa Jan 2012 #118
As human beings, we really do have free will. harmonicon Jan 2012 #119
And why do you chose not to? kwassa Jan 2012 #120
Because I enjoy it. nt. harmonicon Jan 2012 #121
That certainly trumps all health concerns, kwassa Jan 2012 #122
I also drink bourbon by the pint. harmonicon Jan 2012 #123
You're doing more harm than good. Ino Jan 2012 #62
When I was a kid I could go to the corner drugstore Ron Green Jan 2012 #78
Couple of bad analogies... MellowDem Jan 2012 #81
excellent summation of the real issues involved. kwassa Jan 2012 #99
Smoke carcinogen affects others taught_me_patience Jan 2012 #89
The smokers would be in the bar and/or the smoking area if the crusade was called off. TheKentuckian Jan 2012 #93
It isn't a crusade, it it progress. There is no valid reason for smoking. kwassa Jan 2012 #98
What IF people like to do it and it isn't illegal? HangOnKids Jan 2012 #105
We should make it illegal, of course kwassa Jan 2012 #112
What About Health costs for Fat People? HangOnKids Jan 2012 #124
Sure, I have no problem with it. kwassa Jan 2012 #125
Night night HangOnKids Jan 2012 #126
Poor You HangOnKids Jan 2012 #106
Well said. I can't stand nanny staters of any persuasion. Jean V. Dubois Jan 2012 #114
Here's a picture of me from when I smoked: VioletLake Jan 2012 #116
Use of the term 'banned' is somewhat hyperbolic. ronnie624 Jan 2012 #117
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