General Discussion

cthulu2016

(10,960 posts)

59. No, in this case the ultimate determinant is context.

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 10:55 PM

Oct 2012

When there is ambiguity as to which meaning is being used you look to context.

And no sensible person could fail to understand the (clumsy) phrase in context, unless he or she was really excited about getting upset over something they imagined.

We have a word used in a way unfamiliar to some readers.

We have a full context explaining how the word is being used. The preceding passages are like a road map to the factual versus subjective distinction being drawn.

Why would any reader chose to misread it, rather than consider that the odds of them misreading something are higher than the odds of politifact stating that Obama is a Muslim.

Sorry, no sympathy for the recreational outrage crowd.

They wanted to misunderstand because it seemed entertaining to do so and now they are stuck in their positions. Sad shit..

I'm out of this thread.

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So Politifact says "The idea that Obama is a Muslim is factual." I emailed them about it-- [View all] Jackpine Radical Oct 2012 OP

It is a fact that some believe he is a Muslim. Therefore the idea he is Muslim is factual. librechik Oct 2012 #1

+1 ProudProgressiveNow Oct 2012 #39

Distinction between "factual" and "statement of fact" lolly Oct 2012 #2

No. Both of those imply a factual quality. This is simply an ASSERTION by Mr. Williams Jr. BlueStreak Oct 2012 #8

Yes, they should ended the sentence with the phrase - but it is not factual. The Wielding Truth Oct 2012 #17

Unf#%@king believable. SalviaBlue Oct 2012 #3

They are also bigots it seems. What would be the problem with a politician sabrina 1 Oct 2012 #12

You know, you are right. SalviaBlue Oct 2012 #38

What does it tell you when PolitiFACT doesn't know the difference between an ASSERTION and a FACT? BlueStreak Oct 2012 #4

Here is the link. skinnertest Oct 2012 #5

ideas are not equal to facts Voice for Peace Oct 2012 #6

Ask them if the "idea" that Mitt is "not a true Christian" is factual ... if so, they should JoePhilly Oct 2012 #7

Both are ASSERTIONS with no basis in fact. BlueStreak Oct 2012 #11

Actually ... there is some "fact" to the Mormon issue. JoePhilly Oct 2012 #37

Jackpine, please sent this exchange to Rachel Maddow's team. "Politifact" and their "fact checking" myrna minx Oct 2012 #9

I was about to suggest the same thing Canuckistanian Oct 2012 #19

And so what if he is? Do we need publications like this feeding the rabid bigotry sabrina 1 Oct 2012 #10

because an openly Muslim person could never be elected nationally banned from Kos Oct 2012 #13

It only fails because people are so fearful of speaking the truth. sabrina 1 Oct 2012 #16

I agree with your sentiment. Jackpine Radical Oct 2012 #14

Rec. progressoid Oct 2012 #15

I suspect Obama's thinking is more science-based than faith-based. Regardless .... Scuba Oct 2012 #18

Get a DICTIONARY. It will save embarrassment and time emailing people cthulu2016 Oct 2012 #20

I disagree. Factual means pertaining to facts. cui bono Oct 2012 #24

Meaning is not derived from whatever *you* think words mean cthulu2016 Oct 2012 #28

Just as you saying what *you* think it means doesn't change the fact of what it means. cui bono Oct 2012 #31

Since you cannot even accept what factual means there is nothing to talk about. cthulu2016 Oct 2012 #33

You won this subthread Turborama Oct 2012 #60

YAY!!! cui bono Oct 2012 #63

That would be "verifiable," "empirical," "testable" in my dialect of English. Jackpine Radical Oct 2012 #26

Correct. So what is your point? cthulu2016 Oct 2012 #29

The point is that you are wrong and have been proven wrong. You should just stop. Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2012 #53

Welcome to DU, and buy yourself a fucking dictionary cthulu2016 Oct 2012 #57

You can't consider yourself seriously interested in facts if you can read my post about the synonyms Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2012 #61

Google definition: DevonRex Oct 2012 #32

And that is why nobody uses Google dictionary. It is practically a slang dictionary. cthulu2016 Oct 2012 #35

Thesaurus definition for "factual": real, correct Synonyms: absolute, accurate, actual, Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2012 #51

the problem is, "factual" has both meanings 0rganism Oct 2012 #64

The idea that Obama is a Muslim is NOT factual. cui bono Oct 2012 #21

The primary definition of "factual" is not "true." cthulu2016 Oct 2012 #23

I responded to your previous post if you want to continure there in one place. n/t cui bono Oct 2012 #25

Webster Dictionary disagrees Oilwellian Oct 2012 #44

Oh FFS... how low will people go? cthulu2016 Oct 2012 #58

As others have pointed out . . . markpkessinger Oct 2012 #48

Yes, that's what the majority of American English speakers will interpret it to mean. And, as I Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2012 #52

No, in this case the ultimate determinant is context. cthulu2016 Oct 2012 #59

intentionally obtuse reusrename Oct 2012 #62

ideally, you would be correct, but this is politics 0rganism Oct 2012 #65

This message was self-deleted by its author GeorgeGist Oct 2012 #22

I FIRMLY Believe that Mitt Romney is not qualified to be president that means it WCGreen Oct 2012 #27

Outrageous. Politifact knows exactly what they are doing with that careful phrasing. reflection Oct 2012 #30

Actually, it IS a FACT that "Hank Williams Jr. says Barack Obama is a Muslim." Here is my email to Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2012 #54

Wonderful response. reflection Oct 2012 #66

Well, thanks, but I guess PolitiCrap doesn't agree, since they haven't bothered to even respond to Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2012 #68

Politifact needs to learn phrases like, "lie by omission" and "false". ieoeja Oct 2012 #34

Maybe they meant because his father converted to Islam for a while, Obama's genetically Muslim. Bucky Oct 2012 #36

Wow, religion is now a genetic thing? Oilwellian Oct 2012 #46

Politiflipflop. hay rick Oct 2012 #40

i don't see any definition of "factual" that means you just make shit up noiretextatique Oct 2012 #41

Politifact is in the tank for Romney: ProSense Oct 2012 #42

How about this, "But the idea that Obama is a Muslim is not fictional."? Turborama Oct 2012 #43

Simply, there are NO facts to support the idea NashvilleLefty Oct 2012 #45

Correction - apparently you made an impression! NashvilleLefty Oct 2012 #49

Here's how it now reads. Jackpine Radical Oct 2012 #55

That's not much better apples and oranges Oct 2012 #56

I disagree-- Jackpine Radical Oct 2012 #67

Thank you. Great catch and solution! Zorra Oct 2012 #69

Politifiction is beneath contempt n/t markpkessinger Oct 2012 #47

Nutjobs say he's Muslim - see WIKIPEDIA upi402 Oct 2012 #50