Reply #13

In the discussion thread: If You Have The Ability to Create Your Own Currency, How Can You Ever Be Broke? [View all]

Mon Oct 22, 2012, 01:35 PM

ronnie624 (3,692 posts)

13. Any realistic economic theory would adhere strictly to the Laws of Thermodynamics,

Last edited Mon Oct 22, 2012, 02:00 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

because an economy is exactly analogous to a thermodynamic system; the conversion, utilization and dissipation of matter and energy.

Our current system is designed to further enrich the elite class and consolidate their political power through accelerating debt. It is destined to fail, spectacularly.

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152 replies	Author	Time	Post
If You Have The Ability to Create Your Own Currency, How Can You Ever Be Broke? [View all]	Yavin4	Oct 2012	OP
K&R	abelenkpe	Oct 2012	#1
It's all a ruse	RegieRocker	Oct 2012	#2
Eco 101 explains why this is a bad idea	Gman	Oct 2012	#3
I've never taken a real Econ class in a college or university	slackmaster	Oct 2012	#92
Correct.	bemildred	Oct 2012	#4
Why would anyone ever work then?	Boetie	Oct 2012	#67
You'ld like this cartoon...	hunter	Oct 2012	#70
Maybe those idiots on the island	Boetie	Oct 2012	#101
To get money. It's paper now, eh? And it's still legal tender.	bemildred	Oct 2012	#71
How can you "underdo" it?	Boetie	Oct 2012	#99
Not print enough, not put enough in circulation, not pay working people enough,	bemildred	Oct 2012	#100
What if the value of people's money	Boetie	Oct 2012	#102
First off, it has no intrinsic value, it's paper. Nowadays it's not even that.	bemildred	Oct 2012	#103
bemildred...American workers have a decreasing share of the national wealth. This "no consequence"	Romulox	Oct 2012	#106
That's because the game is rigged. As Ms Warren says.	bemildred	Oct 2012	#107
Rampant inflation (e.g. of housing prices) does not and has not helped common people. nt	Romulox	Oct 2012	#109
Indeed. nt	bemildred	Oct 2012	#112
How is it rigged? And how do we "re-rig" it?	Boetie	Oct 2012	#111
Our money supply is in the hands of bankers and the wealthy.	bemildred	Oct 2012	#114
What stats are you referring to?	Boetie	Oct 2012	#116
Concentration of wealth. "Redistibution".	bemildred	Oct 2012	#121
By confiscation you mean taking property by force, is that right?	Boetie	Oct 2012	#123
Taxes.	bemildred	Oct 2012	#126
Do you wish harm to me if I don't want to hand over my property?	Boetie	Oct 2012	#132
Of course not. Do you wish to harm me if I raise taxes? nt	bemildred	Oct 2012	#134
No. Why do you advocate redistribution and taxation if you don't wish harm on others?	Boetie	Oct 2012	#136
The present arrangements are not harmless either. nt	bemildred	Oct 2012	#139
Who are you backing for President? Thanks for answering my simple question.	uppityperson	Oct 2012	#149
What are businesses competing for?	Boetie	Oct 2012	#120
Power and control. Money is one of the tools, one of the counters. nt	bemildred	Oct 2012	#122
Do they compete for your business, your money?	Boetie	Oct 2012	#124
They hate competition. But yes, they want your money. nt	bemildred	Oct 2012	#127
Is this not a voluntary act, you giving a business money in exchange for a good?	Boetie	Oct 2012	#131
That depends on whether you are being coerced.	bemildred	Oct 2012	#133
So, business in the free market is voluntary, and the state is coercion, yes?	Boetie	Oct 2012	#137
Businesses are perfectly capable of coercion, as everybody knows by experience.	bemildred	Oct 2012	#141
When you exchange money for a product, are you not voting for that product (in an economic sense)?	Boetie	Oct 2012	#143
No. I'm buying something I presumably need or want. I may or may not have choices.	bemildred	Oct 2012	#145
Yes, because you can go without, or you can buy it. No one is putting a gun to your head.	Boetie	Oct 2012	#146
PS: I'm not saying there are no consequences to inflation. I lived through the 70s and 80s.	bemildred	Oct 2012	#110
Your first point is correct, your second way off base.	Romulox	Oct 2012	#117
What is wealth?	Boetie	Oct 2012	#119
Whatever people think it is.	bemildred	Oct 2012	#125
What do you mean "there is nothing to appreciate?"	Boetie	Oct 2012	#108
It's little magnetic dots somewhere, that's what I mean.	bemildred	Oct 2012	#115
Doesn't everything we value come from our perceptions?	Boetie	Oct 2012	#118
I think food, for example, is much realer than money.	bemildred	Oct 2012	#128
Are my productive efforts (mowing a lawn, designing a building) an abstraction or are they real?	Boetie	Oct 2012	#129
Quite real, unlike our money. nt	bemildred	Oct 2012	#130
If money represents productive real effort, than why do you advocate its arbitrary creation?	Boetie	Oct 2012	#135
Money represents whatever the hell you want, including that. It's ARBITRARY.	bemildred	Oct 2012	#138
Ok.	Boetie	Oct 2012	#144
Because the more money you print the less it is worth, in relative terms.	Agnosticsherbet	Oct 2012	#5
The Worth of Anything (including money) Is What Others Are Willing to Pay for It	Yavin4	Oct 2012	#14
The world is already trying to move in many places to start displacing the dollar form oil...	Agnosticsherbet	Oct 2012	#29
The U.S. Treasury no longer prints Currency. (they DO still mint Coins)	Volaris	Oct 2012	#32
Where is there a country that bases their currency on the value of labor?	Agnosticsherbet	Oct 2012	#38
Paper money is printed by the Bureau of Engraving and Printing (BEP),	Art_from_Ark	Oct 2012	#52
That May Be Multiple Decades Away	Yavin4	Oct 2012	#35
My crystal ball isn't working...	Agnosticsherbet	Oct 2012	#40
Hyperinflation can be just as bad.	hack89	Oct 2012	#6
+1 It takes wheelbarrows full of money to buy bread.	GreenPartyVoter	Oct 2012	#23
True. If you print more $, it loses its value. nt	Honeycombe8	Oct 2012	#84
Exactly ...	1StrongBlackMan	Oct 2012	#7
Precisely. Just Look at some of the responses on this thread.	Yavin4	Oct 2012	#17
But you can make your currency worthless	hack89	Oct 2012	#25
Tell it to Greece and the Soviet Union	KurtNYC	Oct 2012	#37
Easy. You're broke when others view your currencey as worthless. n/t	sharkman25	Oct 2012	#8
Yes everything is hunky dory	dipsydoodle	Oct 2012	#9
Ask the natives of Yap Island	slackmaster	Oct 2012	#10
Holy Shit. What the hell do schools teach about economics these days?	PavePusher	Oct 2012	#11
+1	1-Old-Man	Oct 2012	#12
"our currency is based on our willingness to go to work tomorrow and to pay taxes on our earnings"	Yavin4	Oct 2012	#15
So you are suggesting that our currency has no relevance for domestic use?	1-Old-Man	Oct 2012	#19
No.	Yavin4	Oct 2012	#24
Tell Me Where I Am Wrong	Yavin4	Oct 2012	#16
However, your money can be worth less	Dash87	Oct 2012	#33
A quadrillion of something with no value cannot pay for even the cheapest things. (nt)	Posteritatis	Oct 2012	#73
Any realistic economic theory would adhere strictly to the Laws of Thermodynamics,	ronnie624	Oct 2012	#13
can you describe that in Thermodynamic terms?	Volaris	Oct 2012	#36
I have neither the time nor the skills to write such an essay,	ronnie624	Oct 2012	#53
The rich have $50 trillion in wealth. The US just needs $1 trillion of that to balance the budget.	reformist2	Oct 2012	#18
we have two 1%ers running for president. what else would you expect lol nt	msongs	Oct 2012	#21
Yes. The Weimar Republic could simply print all the Marks they needed.	Nye Bevan	Oct 2012	#20
You beat me to it.	PavePusher	Oct 2012	#31
Or the festivities in Zimbabwe a few years ago	Posteritatis	Oct 2012	#74
Have you ever looked at how much money was printed during those years?	Taitertots	Oct 2012	#88
Perhaps you can tell me what other nations were completely dependant on the German market	Egalitarian Thug	Oct 2012	#94
this is not correct, imho	Enrique	Oct 2012	#22
No. My Argument Is That If You Can Print Your Own Currency,...	Yavin4	Oct 2012	#26
You are correct. People are just hyperizing about doing this long term, which is in fact bad.	reformist2	Oct 2012	#28
ok then, let's raise social security checks to $1 million per month	Enrique	Oct 2012	#30
We Could Do That And Still Not Be Broke	Yavin4	Oct 2012	#34
"i'm not an economics expert". That much is certain, and is the first thing you should consider when	Egalitarian Thug	Oct 2012	#95
Wozniak prints his own money	lumberjack_jeff	Oct 2012	#27
You can't be broke.	hunter	Oct 2012	#39
Technically, the Weimar Republic didn't go broke, but the people suffered greatly.	badtoworse	Oct 2012	#41
It's really not that simple though.	frostfern	Oct 2012	#51
The problem is inflation	davidn3600	Oct 2012	#42
The upsides to hyperinflation are	Zalatix	Oct 2012	#43
OK. Now I know DU economics threads do not tend to be academically rigorous	Nye Bevan	Oct 2012	#45
Weimar is unlikely to happen.	Zalatix	Oct 2012	#46
Dude. Hyperinflation is not OK just because you have an apple tree.	Nye Bevan	Oct 2012	#47
There are SEVERAL kinds of inflation.	Zalatix	Oct 2012	#48
You used the phrase "The upsides to hyperinflation are". That's all I really need to say. (nt)	Nye Bevan	Oct 2012	#49
Import-price hyperinflation is possible.	Zalatix	Oct 2012	#50
"you need to bone up on some basic economics". i think you might want to read some basic econ....	dionysus	Oct 2012	#87
I would answer your argument... but wait, you made none!	Zalatix	Oct 2012	#89
There are no upsides to hyperinflation. (nt)	Posteritatis	Oct 2012	#62
There are no upsides to depression either.	bemildred	Oct 2012	#72
Hey guys, you're BOTH right! We don't want hyperinflation OR depression!	Nye Bevan	Oct 2012	#76
Yes! I think you've got it. nt	bemildred	Oct 2012	#77
With as many jobs as we're sending overseas, both are inevitable.	Zalatix	Oct 2012	#85
you can't have just seriously proposed such a stupid thing. krugman wept.	dionysus	Oct 2012	#86
If our gobstoppingly high trade deficits don't abate, it is not stupid, but rather, INEVITABLE.	Zalatix	Oct 2012	#90
The Greeks should renounce the Euro and give every citizen a billion Drachmas. Problem solved!	Throd	Oct 2012	#44
If it were only that easy	KFredrick	Oct 2012	#54
Humans are only motivated by a desire to "earn money".	ronnie624	Oct 2012	#55
Yet at this time nobody has money to buy anything. And they're working their asses off.	Zalatix	Oct 2012	#57
This post was hidden by jury decision.	JWnTX	Oct 2012	#56
This post was hidden by jury decision.	derp...	Oct 2012	#58
Hyperinflation	spidly	Oct 2012	#59
"Broke" isn't the problem.	lumberjack_jeff	Oct 2012	#60
That's Correct.	Yavin4	Oct 2012	#79
I like this idea	Darth_ Deciduous	Oct 2012	#61
Only by creating so much that others lose faith in your ability to generate sufficient	Egalitarian Thug	Oct 2012	#63
W. T. F. ?	Marinedem	Oct 2012	#64
The U,S, Is Not "Broke"	Yavin4	Oct 2012	#66
No.	Marinedem	Oct 2012	#68
I Never Said That There Wouldn't Be Inflation	Yavin4	Oct 2012	#82
Could you possibly expand your argument beyond merely nay saying?	Egalitarian Thug	Oct 2012	#97
Obvious Question	Boetie	Oct 2012	#65
OP didn't really say anything about working	leftstreet	Oct 2012	#81
I believe the that the very topic	Boetie	Oct 2012	#98
"Cigarettes replace the reichsmark as Germany’s currency"	One_Life_To_Give	Oct 2012	#69
In because this thread is famous	Darth_ Deciduous	Oct 2012	#75
Ow	mythology	Oct 2012	#78
So, You Buy Into the Phony Lie About The U.S. Being Broke?	Yavin4	Oct 2012	#80
Super Dollar	StokeyBob	Oct 2012	#83
Is this post satire or	Fred Bastiat	Oct 2012	#91
Welcome to DU	Fumesucker	Oct 2012	#96
The "Parable of the Broken Window" doesn't work when the rich are hoarding so much, though...	Romulox	Oct 2012	#104
Ooooo. Your Mightt Libertarian Brain Is Tooo Much For Me...	Yavin4	Oct 2012	#113
Debt is what it is	Lurker Deluxe	Oct 2012	#140
Look dude	Boetie	Oct 2012	#142
The "Given this.." in my statement refers to the fact that people accept your currency.	Yavin4	Oct 2012	#148
Just like any commodity	rrneck	Oct 2012	#93
Then let's just print a Kazillion-Brajillion bucks for each of us, and we'll all be RICH!	Romulox	Oct 2012	#105
Funny thing about imaginary constructs like money..	LanternWaste	Oct 2012	#147
Um, money isn't an "imaginary construct". It's very real.	Romulox	Oct 2012	#150
This post was hidden by jury decision.	5Arete23	Oct 2012	#151
Just hide the M3	upi402	Oct 2012	#152

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