Reply #137

In the discussion thread: Florida Election software Flips Vote: Losers Certified as Winners [View all]

Thu Oct 11, 2012, 09:58 AM

HopeHoops (47,675 posts)

137. The sad thing is that they COULD be accurate AND trustworthy. They just aren't.

But even optical scanners have problems. Granted, there is a piece of paper that can be used for a hand recount, but the way things work now, the election is called as soon as Hawaii closes its polls and the "winner" gets a call concession call within the hour. Recounts just turn into a huge mess. I think there should be a mandatory two-week cool-off period before the election is officially called, and longer if there's a challenge in that time. We put up with two years of campaigning ahead of the election. I'm sure we can handle two weeks afterward. Speaking of which, "are we there yet?"

Reply to this post

Back to OP Alert abuse Link to post in-thread

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum

Replies to this discussion thread

197 replies	Author	Time	Post
Florida Election software Flips Vote: Losers Certified as Winners [View all]	Land Shark	Oct 2012	OP
Sheesh! This should be national news. nt	2 Much Tribulation	Oct 2012	#1
+1	hrmjustin	Oct 2012	#77
Unbelievable that it's not.	go west young man	Oct 2012	#120
I don't think the owners of the media like to talk about such things.	hrmjustin	Oct 2012	#121
It should have been national news in 2004 too...	joycejnr	Oct 2012	#103
Republicans care about every conceivable security breech except for e-voting	Tom Rinaldo	Oct 2012	#2
This message was self-deleted by its author	AnotherMcIntosh	Oct 2012	#3
Holder wouldn't give a crap unless the machines were caught smoking pot.	FiveGoodMen	Oct 2012	#27
Couldn't have...	thc420	Oct 2012	#51
Holder is one of the BIGGEST disappointments of the Obama Administration.	bvar22	Oct 2012	#147
He was "supposed to be" investigating election fraud in Florida, but citizens found it instead.	robinlynne	Oct 2012	#52
Isn't this a crime???	tblue	Oct 2012	#139
yes it is.	robinlynne	Oct 2012	#140
When are going to just let sixth graders count the vote as a civic duty.	hootinholler	Oct 2012	#4
That sounds like a wonderful idea!	BlueCaliDem	Oct 2012	#55
Newt should agree	SCVDem	Oct 2012	#62
~lol	CrispyQ	Oct 2012	#81
With ONE difference . . . they're not working	BlueCaliDem	Oct 2012	#105
Plus it teaches them they can't really trust 'grown-ups' to always do the right thing.	hootinholler	Oct 2012	#90
This is important. Spread this around.	2pooped2pop	Oct 2012	#5
Video...	YvonneCa	Oct 2012	#17
I want to know the stats	Liberal Gramma	Oct 2012	#6
k&r. k&r. K&R!	robinlynne	Oct 2012	#7
This Too Scary!!!	ChiciB1	Oct 2012	#8
I would send this to TRM show! n/t	arthritisR_US	Oct 2012	#9
That is not a software error. That's an intentional program!	Baitball Blogger	Oct 2012	#10
prefuckingcisely	pnwest	Oct 2012	#28
Absolutely!	LiberalFighter	Oct 2012	#47
Yes. Computers don't do anything they are not programmed to do.	KeepItReal	Oct 2012	#85
As an accomplished programmer (retired), I absolutely agree.	TahitiNut	Oct 2012	#91
Thank you.	Scootaloo	Oct 2012	#102
!	Barack_America	Oct 2012	#143
Thanks. I could write an essay on the idiocy of claiming such behavior is a "bug."	TahitiNut	Oct 2012	#151
Please do. You can start by disassembling the vendor "explanations" at this link	Land Shark	Oct 2012	#158
Not necessary: From the article:"In other words, it wasn't a bug, it was a feature."	TahitiNut	Oct 2012	#180
Thanks, tho you still deserve an OP treatment of your points here nt	Land Shark	Oct 2012	#188
I second the request to please explain this in an OP.	Barack_America	Oct 2012	#172
If it could happen once, and if it could happen here ...	lpbk2713	Oct 2012	#11
How do you think Bush won in 2000???	dixiegrrrrl	Oct 2012	#59
Once again, EVERY POS and ATM in the country produces a paper receipt...	HopeHoops	Oct 2012	#12
Amen! But who is listening?	NoMoreWarNow	Oct 2012	#33
Nobody.	HopeHoops	Oct 2012	#38
While a paper "receipt" is better, it's still not enough, IMHO.	TahitiNut	Oct 2012	#92
Well, if the voter receipt matches the rolling paper in the machine (through a window),...	HopeHoops	Oct 2012	#94
Paper ballots that can be hand counted.	RC	Oct 2012	#95
The sad thing is that they COULD be accurate AND trustworthy. They just aren't.	HopeHoops	Oct 2012	#137
Hand counted paper ballots, in and of themselves, ARE trustworthy, but more is...	Land Shark	Oct 2012	#138
That lack of evidence is by design.	HopeHoops	Oct 2012	#141
True (with regard to computerized vote counting, which is inherently secret vote counting)	Land Shark	Oct 2012	#142
That's something else I don't understand.	RC	Oct 2012	#168
we DO NOT need to know the winner by 10pm EST or so. That being said...	Land Shark	Oct 2012	#169
Well, I posted this elsewhere, but I'll post it again. I think we need at least a 2-week window.	HopeHoops	Oct 2012	#175
Then why	laundry_queen	Oct 2012	#181
DUers need to read this and get it up high on the greatest page. This is what will determine the re	robinlynne	Oct 2012	#13
K and R	titaniumsalute	Oct 2012	#21
this BS happened when bush won & the bastards still are going to do this again !	april	Oct 2012	#14
And that's what happens when they get away with it!	rock	Oct 2012	#79
Every four years, this becomes an issue.	dotymed	Oct 2012	#131
Exactly. This is how Bush was crowned in 2000 and 2004.	ywcachieve	Oct 2012	#93
This concerns me greatly.	Delphinus	Oct 2012	#15
Kick!	brindis_desala	Oct 2012	#16
This is why exit polling is no longer used...	Bandit	Oct 2012	#18
Scary indeed! K&R	classof56	Oct 2012	#19
Kick & recommended.	William769	Oct 2012	#20
Democrats have probably been winning for YEARS.	Matariki	Oct 2012	#22
I suspect this greatly nt	flamingdem	Oct 2012	#44
The only Democrats who win now	OnyxCollie	Oct 2012	#88
DECADES! Ohio was solid BLUE before punch card voting made it too easy to fix elections	Coyotl	Oct 2012	#132
double K&R	defacto7	Oct 2012	#23
It would be interesting to see all the states refusing the Fed test.	FedUpWithIt All	Oct 2012	#24
How is that even possible?	LiberalLovinLug	Oct 2012	#56
It was implemented as a "voluntary" program.	FedUpWithIt All	Oct 2012	#75
Because the Constitution says so in Article II	jberryhill	Oct 2012	#126
Actually, feds have de facto control of state elections because...	Land Shark	Oct 2012	#130
Yes, there is also the voting rights act	jberryhill	Oct 2012	#179
K & R	AzDar	Oct 2012	#25
And so it begins.	lalalu	Oct 2012	#26
I go to the Brad Blog	LittleGirl	Oct 2012	#29
Exactly right. Paper. Brad has fabulous election fraud info on his site.	valerief	Oct 2012	#43
Indeed he should be on the news every night	LittleGirl	Oct 2012	#69
Oops, maybe I was thinking of Current but it should have been RT. nt	valerief	Oct 2012	#74
paper is not enough.	garybeck	Oct 2012	#154
Audits must be ANNOUNCED b/c they're legal requirements, so fraudsters can always work around	Land Shark	Oct 2012	#157
what are your thoughts on this?	garybeck	Oct 2012	#161
I encourage you, YET no audit provides REASSURANCE of election accuracy	Land Shark	Oct 2012	#166
I agree, but...	garybeck	Oct 2012	#170
There are no "good" audits, but some are better than others	Land Shark	Oct 2012	#171
Paper, meaning JUST paper. No machines. nt	valerief	Oct 2012	#167
Brad Blog is an incredible resource	marions ghost	Oct 2012	#72
Kicking. Very important story that needs as much visability as possible.	Whovian	Oct 2012	#30
Kick!	JimDandy	Oct 2012	#31
This happens every voting season.	Stevepol	Oct 2012	#32
in theory, local election boards are responsible and should want to make sure they are counting the	NoMoreWarNow	Oct 2012	#36
this was only caught because there were paper ballots	NoMoreWarNow	Oct 2012	#34
I witnessed a DRE flipping votes in Florida in 2004...	Sancho	Oct 2012	#35
how can people not care?	NoMoreWarNow	Oct 2012	#39
Short of armed revolution? Doubt it. nt	valerief	Oct 2012	#42
We've complained, some have gone to court...	Sancho	Oct 2012	#127
The reality is that if we stop one form of election fraud, the GOP will always invent another one.	factsarenotfair	Oct 2012	#37
I'm sure he is not	NoMoreWarNow	Oct 2012	#40
Like we haven't known this since HAVA started!!!! nt	valerief	Oct 2012	#41
What if anything can we do?	flamingdem	Oct 2012	#46
Short of armed revolution, I don't know. nt	valerief	Oct 2012	#50
I have some gardening tools .. nt	flamingdem	Oct 2012	#54
Congress has plenty of hoes.	valerief	Oct 2012	#57
o m g	flamingdem	Oct 2012	#82
find your state's election integrity organization and get active.	garybeck	Oct 2012	#162
Most likely this is the tip of the iceberg--has happened unknown # of times!	hue	Oct 2012	#45
At some point the game will end. You can see it coming.	Spitfire of ATJ	Oct 2012	#48
When I use Excel or a database	LiberalFighter	Oct 2012	#49
Likewise. It is really easy to self-check programming in Excel.	Coyotl	Oct 2012	#133
OK, preparing to move to Canada.	elleng	Oct 2012	#53
Voter suppression has begun up here too!	MAD Dave	Oct 2012	#116
Will keep my eyes on things up north, MAD,	elleng	Oct 2012	#118
VA uses these machines.....my ATM prints a picture of my check.....	Gin	Oct 2012	#58
Posted at FaceBook.	elleng	Oct 2012	#60
May I add that the federal program which oversees the federal cerification is staffed	robinlynne	Oct 2012	#61
Full support?	SCVDem	Oct 2012	#68
more support than I have ever seen for a US president since John Kennedy. How's that?	robinlynne	Oct 2012	#119
Kicked and recommended.	Uncle Joe	Oct 2012	#63
I don't know...	DirtyDawg	Oct 2012	#64
K&R	louslobbs	Oct 2012	#65
"software error"	Canuckistanian	Oct 2012	#66
I'm sure it's really an "error" too.	tarheelsunc	Oct 2012	#67
The Solution To This Problem Is So Simple	Z_California	Oct 2012	#70
Of course this is only meaningful if you can see who you voted for.	JackRiddler	Oct 2012	#113
If I and I alone...	Z_California	Oct 2012	#150
Thousands, literally, see their vote flipped, but they seem reassured b/c thinking they "Caught it"	Land Shark	Oct 2012	#155
yikes	MerryBlooms	Oct 2012	#71
OK it's time to DO SOMETHING about electronic voting machines	Blue Owl	Oct 2012	#73
K & R nt	Guy Whitey Corngood	Oct 2012	#76
K&R	idwiyo	Oct 2012	#78
Dominion Voting Systems	suffragette	Oct 2012	#80
Dominion?	flamingdem	Oct 2012	#83
Way	suffragette	Oct 2012	#182
Is it a hint?	flamingdem	Oct 2012	#184
Dominion = Diebold + Sequoia?	Mc Mike	Oct 2012	#125
and don't forget, for a few months in there, Diebold/Premier was owned by ESS.	garybeck	Oct 2012	#164
Great points Gary	suffragette	Oct 2012	#183
You mean the Urosevich brothers are sharing info, or in-fighting? nt.	Mc Mike	Oct 2012	#186
This is why Florida should never be considered in Dem electoral projections.	aquart	Oct 2012	#84
A top computer guy who does stuff for the Defense Department said:	DFW	Oct 2012	#86
Very true quote!	2 Much Tribulation	Oct 2012	#89
Are you saying that voting machines have a cellular radio in them?	Flatulo	Oct 2012	#107
I have no idea what the tech side is to that	DFW	Oct 2012	#109
Yes many of these computerized voting machines have wireless ports	Land Shark	Oct 2012	#110
I know how election fraud will finally be addressed and corrected...	Kurovski	Oct 2012	#112
k&r nt	steve2470	Oct 2012	#87
I wondered how Reek Scott got elected-	secondvariety	Oct 2012	#96
Reek Scott!! Good one!	Zalatix	Oct 2012	#108
What foreigners will think of America...	JackN415	Oct 2012	#97
That Americans invented voting machines to fix overseas elections, of course	Coyotl	Oct 2012	#134
Oh...	theKed	Oct 2012	#135
Flori-fuckin-duh	Daniel537	Oct 2012	#98
Hindsight will show	Jakes Progress	Oct 2012	#99
This IS the ticking time bomb. Also 19 States now NOT doing EXIT POLLS??? WTF?	99th_Monkey	Oct 2012	#100
Kicking, and encouraging dissemination EVERYWHERE!	elleng	Oct 2012	#101
K&R!!!	KansDem	Oct 2012	#104
There's also an absentee ballot fiasco in Palm Beach County.	hay rick	Oct 2012	#106
Those 60,000 votes from Palm Beach county	FlaGranny	Oct 2012	#129
Kick please	glinda	Oct 2012	#111
ok, here's your kick. ;)	Land Shark	Oct 2012	#114
...	glinda	Oct 2012	#123
These kind of reports make me sick to my stomach and causes sleep problems.	Auntie Bush	Oct 2012	#115
Is Obama behind the story?	RobertEarl	Oct 2012	#117
The courts need to step in and tell Florida to clean their mess up	davidpdx	Oct 2012	#122
These are nationwide	RobertEarl	Oct 2012	#124
Can anyone find a way	Le Taz Hot	Oct 2012	#128
K&R	Jamastiene	Oct 2012	#136
Way past time to make voting machines as secure as ATM's...it's a joke passing as democracy. nt	mother earth	Oct 2012	#144
ATMs produce cash that if you do NOT hand count it, you're a fool	Land Shark	Oct 2012	#146
There has to be an audit trail, but certainly the paper ballots are best, the polls are tools,	mother earth	Oct 2012	#178
if you want to change it, pay attention to your Secretary of State elections.	NuttyFluffers	Oct 2012	#145
Chicken and egg	nolabels	Oct 2012	#149
not really....	garybeck	Oct 2012	#153
Sec of State Debra Bowen was key to getting CA back from play.	NuttyFluffers	Oct 2012	#187
yes I acknowledge Bowen for sure, but let me ask you....	garybeck	Oct 2012	#190
Problem is, SOS Bowen exposed many (not all) problems, AND KEPT THE COMPUTERIZED SYSTEMS	Land Shark	Oct 2012	#193
We have paper ballots	Le Taz Hot	Oct 2012	#194
that's not enough.	garybeck	Oct 2012	#195
DREs are only for disabled voters who explicitly choose to vote that way	NuttyFluffers	Oct 2012	#197
what kind of machines are they using there?	garybeck	Oct 2012	#148
Sequoia (now Dominion) optical scan systems, 2% audits (officials sure all errors NOT caught)	Land Shark	Oct 2012	#152
thanks. so let me get this straight.... Diebold, ESS, Premier, Dominion..... all the same....?	garybeck	Oct 2012	#159
After a flurry of recent mergers/divestitures, Dominion dominates as follows	Land Shark	Oct 2012	#163
during the brief period that ESS owned Diebold/Permier, don't you think they would have	garybeck	Oct 2012	#196
This could so easily be solved, and the trust of the voters restored	Not Me	Oct 2012	#156
Except this suggestion wouldn't, in fact, work	Land Shark	Oct 2012	#160
K&R n/t	myrna minx	Oct 2012	#165
Thanks to all for keeping this thread kicked. nt	Land Shark	Oct 2012	#173
I could have detected this problem with statistics BEFORE the election was certified.	fchoquette	Oct 2012	#174
+1 for extra analysis	Land Shark	Oct 2012	#177
Software error my round butt.	PDJane	Oct 2012	#176
Bring cameras, cell phones	tessar	Oct 2012	#185
Interesting how a few states are trying to make polling places camera-free	Land Shark	Oct 2012	#189
Cameras and cell phones cant take a picture of the vote counting when it takes place	garybeck	Oct 2012	#191
+1	Land Shark	Oct 2012	#192

Edit History

Please login to view edit histories.