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haele

(12,646 posts)
22. The problem comes from many charter schools that are basically storefronts or in a few offices -
Wed Oct 3, 2012, 05:25 PM
Oct 2012

More than half those in the above survey probably did not have the facilities to provide more than a coffee room cubby with Costco Snacks, a mini-fridge, and a microwave, let alone real lab facilities for science classes or a grassy area for P.E.. Quite a few charter schools are based on "flexible learning", where the child only comes in for a scheduled 4 to 8 hours a week for administration, "personalized" instruction, and testing; and are sent home to complete up the majority of their learning as homework and or online access and "online tutoring" if they had questions. Children are not at such facilities long enough to justify providing a regular cafeteria that would be subject to Health Code compliance, so they usually only have access to little more than a few vending machines, a local taqueria or convenience store, or perhaps an itinerant food truck that would also be there over lunch for the other tenants of the commercial building the school is located in.

I speak from experience - the kidlet went to one of those as an alternative to the regular HS where she was having trouble - we were "encouraged" to let her transfer to a major "non-profit" California Charter School corporation based out of Northern California that had five "campuses" in the city of San Diego alone and another two/three throughout the county. She went twice a week on average weeks for a total of six hours; there was usually no more than 20 students there at any one time, and only three or four were there exactly the same amount of time she was. They had a deal with a nearby CC to use their lab facilities for the science classes and their field and Gym for P.E., so there were always some students off at that CC during those classes instead being at the collection of office suites the "campus" was located in during the month those classes were "held". This particular campus had around 300 or so independent study students from grades 6 - 12 attending for the two years she attended.

The issues I can see with the Charter situation is that if the charter schools 1) structured around a standard full-time school day instead of structured as flexible learning and 2) are co-located at a school, church, or other facility that has a proper food preparation area, the cost of providing the state-mandated meals do not significantly exceed their operating costs; they are already "renting" these facilities or leveraging the costs associated with them, and really have no reason to already be providing the meals as required.

The problems comes about when the charter school is set up in a commercial leased facility - the primary cost-saving measure that many local school districts actually see as the "upside" of the charter school system.
With the fixed cost per student and no additional overhead that most charter school get, many charter school corporate systems can successfully point out that they are not getting the proper "funding" to be able to provide not only the mandated meals and a separate place to eat them at, but the additional certified food-preparation facility and staff to provide the meals and the maintenance of that facility.
It is easy for such corporations to make the case that because most of the funding they receive is only based off the scope of providing the mandated education under a commercial lease rather than at an established public education facility, they could not possibly re-negotiate enough funding per student they are currently getting from the school districts to also provide the proper commercial kitchen and staff to feed the children - especially if they are independent study charters and can claim they do not have enough full-time students on site at any one time to warrant providing a regular kitchen facility. Their argument would be that it is not economically feasible to maintain the facilities to regularly provide meals if they don't have more than ten or so students scheduled during "meal times"; that there may be days that twenty-five or thirty students are schedule with only one or two that may qualify for meals, and there may be days that they have no students scheduled.

Whether or not you approve of Charter Schools, this is a logistics issue as well as a mandate issue. There are ways that legislation can provide Charters with options and alternatives to be able to provide children who qualify for federal and state meal programs meals - such as creating a state program that matches a public school or college/university cafeteria or other facilities with commercial kitchens to provide regular free meal deliveries to the facility by subscription, or coupons/vouchers (yes, it's normally an evil word in government programs, but it could work here) for a "healthy meal deal" - breakfast or lunch provided by nearby diner or resturant for select students.
But it cannot simply be an open-ended mandate leaving the charter to figure out what it needs to do and then try to pitch it to recalcitrant, penny-pinching school districts that see the charter school system as a way to save facilities and overhead costs. Once you get local school district politics and corporate money involved, the needs of the individual student will always take second seat to the overall cost - edited to add unless you can provide them with an option that can "fix the problem" without requiring extra effort, studies, and commissions to figure out how you can meet the mandate.
It needs to be a "these are your meal-provision options" rather than "you have to provide a meal", though. That's the quickest, best way to be able to provide meals to the children who are food-insecure.


Haele

kr HiPointDem Oct 2012 #1
I work in a charter school chillfactor Oct 2012 #2
look around liberal_at_heart Oct 2012 #7
So all your students come from families that can afford to make lunches? KamaAina Oct 2012 #9
Not so unlikely, because some charter schools have ways of avoiding 'those' students. HiPointDem Oct 2012 #54
Indeed. KamaAina Oct 2012 #55
yeah, none of the charter schools DUers support are like that, apparently. they're all wonderful HiPointDem Oct 2012 #64
Well maybe some are that wonderful. wildeyed Oct 2012 #71
If a student lives in a district, s/he has to be provided an education in a district. That's the HiPointDem Oct 2012 #74
So ditto for charter schools. wildeyed Oct 2012 #82
a charter does *not* have to accept all students from its district, nor does it have to follow the HiPointDem Oct 2012 #87
True, the rules are a bit different. wildeyed Oct 2012 #90
cafeterias and food cut into corporate profits and management bonuses. can't have that nt msongs Oct 2012 #16
Speaking of 'simple-minded,' none so blind as those with eyes who will not see. Jeesh - n/t coalition_unwilling Oct 2012 #23
My kids goes to a Title 1 charter school. wildeyed Oct 2012 #29
This is a Federal program KamaAina Oct 2012 #41
That would be something to shoot for. wildeyed Oct 2012 #44
If you can not provide the same standards that the public schools MUST MattBaggins Oct 2012 #46
Whatever. wildeyed Oct 2012 #50
You must meet the same standards that the public schools must if you are to MattBaggins Oct 2012 #52
But they *don't* have to meet the same standards to receive federal money. That's the point. HiPointDem Oct 2012 #58
I agree and I think it is wrong. MattBaggins Oct 2012 #66
It's actually pretty astonishing what NC charters don't have to do. Don't have to do lunches, HiPointDem Oct 2012 #57
And that is how charter schools keep poor children out. Luminous Animal Oct 2012 #48
Well it's not working at ours. wildeyed Oct 2012 #49
No lunches and no transportation are what keeps many people without means from applying Luminous Animal Oct 2012 #53
Schools that provide lunches are reimbursed. And as initially, the only charter authorizers in NC HiPointDem Oct 2012 #56
I have heard about other states that work like that. wildeyed Oct 2012 #69
it's not a complicated issue. it's very simple. there's nothing that charter schools do that HiPointDem Oct 2012 #76
Nope. wildeyed Oct 2012 #83
there is nothing charter schools do that public schools can't do. there's nothing charter schools HiPointDem Oct 2012 #86
I never said any of that. wildeyed Oct 2012 #89
and if they can't afford a good lunch? It says they qualify for it DonRedwood Oct 2012 #32
You cherry pick your students and have no low income kids i am willing to bet. MattBaggins Oct 2012 #45
We always had to pay for our lunches at school. When did they become free? kestrel91316 Oct 2012 #3
They're free, or reduced price, if you're eligible for them KamaAina Oct 2012 #5
Oh, ok, so they aren't free to everybody. From all the RW kestrel91316 Oct 2012 #21
Around 1965, I believe. Free & reduced-price lunches for families who met the income guides. HiPointDem Oct 2012 #59
In 1965, my school offered morning milk (8 ounces) for a nickel Art_from_Ark Oct 2012 #78
I qualified for reduced lunches in school davidpdx Oct 2012 #84
congratulations the Gov. Brown Tippy Oct 2012 #4
Charter schools don't charge tuition KamaAina Oct 2012 #6
I bet my autistic son wouldn't be very welcome at a charter liberal_at_heart Oct 2012 #10
DING DING DING! KamaAina Oct 2012 #12
That's great KamaAina liberal_at_heart Oct 2012 #14
He would be welcome at my son's charter school. wildeyed Oct 2012 #30
I have to admit it would be nice liberal_at_heart Oct 2012 #42
I was able to convince them to give DS an IEP wildeyed Oct 2012 #43
My mom had to fight to get help for me when I was in public school davidpdx Oct 2012 #85
Glad you made it through and did so well for yourself. wildeyed Oct 2012 #92
In RI he would be welcomed hack89 Oct 2012 #34
*All* charter schools are public schools, in that they are funded with tax dollars. However, that's HiPointDem Oct 2012 #60
Not in RI hack89 Oct 2012 #72
I have read your posts, and I have a question... graham4anything Oct 2012 #39
jerry brown is a libertarian dino. HiPointDem Oct 2012 #61
Jerry Brown is a master politician ProudToBeBlueInRhody Oct 2012 #67
Jerry Brown sleeps very well at night. Not a disingenous bone in his beautiful body graham4anything Oct 2012 #73
you're sleeping with him, are you? because otherwise i don't know how you know that. HiPointDem Oct 2012 #77
we do know Sandra Dey O'Connor twists and turns (and Rehnquist burns in hell) graham4anything Oct 2012 #80
brown's policies show him to be a libertarian: liberal on (some) social policy, neo-liberal on HiPointDem Oct 2012 #88
libertarians are rightwing extremists who stroke their guns and watch others sex... graham4anything Oct 2012 #91
That was my gut reaction. LiberalAndProud Oct 2012 #8
Not all charters are for-profit KamaAina Oct 2012 #11
Those that are not for profit are eligible for federal lunch program funds. LiberalAndProud Oct 2012 #17
Even supposedly 'non-profit' charters can be profit centers. In NC, for example, charters can HiPointDem Oct 2012 #62
I think we (USA) should provide a free hot lunch for every kid in every school, CrispyQ Oct 2012 #13
well like Romney said liberal_at_heart Oct 2012 #15
werd. musical_soul Oct 2012 #19
I used to highly support charters schools. musical_soul Oct 2012 #18
Charter schools are not public schools MattBaggins Oct 2012 #47
Very easy solution. Go back to public school and free lunches for those in need. Doremus Oct 2012 #20
The problem comes from many charter schools that are basically storefronts or in a few offices - haele Oct 2012 #22
At least one charter chain, Imagine, is basically built around a real-estate scam KamaAina Oct 2012 #36
Governor Brown -- comforts the comfortable and afflicts the afflicted. I will never vote for coalition_unwilling Oct 2012 #24
And nary a word about the Le Taz Hot Oct 2012 #33
Charter schools are not public schools, but they syphon money from public schools. Chorophyll Oct 2012 #25
Jerry Brown forever graham4anything Oct 2012 #26
Certainly I have. KamaAina Oct 2012 #37
I can only think of one reason why a charter school ... surrealAmerican Oct 2012 #27
Or it could be that the school does not have the facility to safely provide the lunch. wildeyed Oct 2012 #31
DING DING DING!!!! KamaAina Oct 2012 #38
FUCK ALL CHARTER SCHOOLS gopiscrap Oct 2012 #28
That's ridiculous. proud2BlibKansan Oct 2012 #35
I guess that parents will just send their kids to public schools so that they can get fed, right? Freddie Stubbs Oct 2012 #40
Not necessarily. We have seen this "show" before SoCalDem Oct 2012 #68
You are assuming that enough parents would send their kids to these obviously inferior Freddie Stubbs Oct 2012 #79
I never, ever, saw any lunch program in any California schools Brother Buzz Oct 2012 #51
ummm -- during the Truman & Johnson administrations? HiPointDem Oct 2012 #63
Never trikled down to my school Brother Buzz Oct 2012 #70
It's federal law, so it's hard to imagine it didn't exist in your district. Perhaps you didn't have HiPointDem Oct 2012 #75
and in many schools, great pains were taken so that the kids on the free-lunch SoCalDem Oct 2012 #81
What else will be exempted for charter schools so they can make a bigger profit? LiberalFighter Oct 2012 #65
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