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Little Star

(17,055 posts)

8. +1

Reply to eppur_se_muova (Reply #5)

Sat Jan 7, 2012, 09:52 AM

Jan 2012

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Since Free Traders believe that America should lower its standard of living to help the third world [View all] Zalatix Jan 2012 OP

+10000 FreakinDJ Jan 2012 #1

I call the free-traders' position what it is: TREASON. Laelth Jan 2012 #2

Oh now you're an isolationist. <sarcasm> Zalatix Jan 2012 #7

+1 I never understood those arguments right here on DU either... Little Star Jan 2012 #23

They never think about the consequences Zalatix Jan 2012 #28

Yes, treason and pure evil. ananda Jan 2012 #17

and Administrations that "Cook the Books" to say it doesn't harm Americans / America FreakinDJ Jan 2012 #29

It is fraud. It is also treason. Laelth Jan 2012 #39

Absolutely! AnotherMcIntosh Jan 2012 #81

Amen--Treason it is. We need TARIFFS now! unlawflcombatnt Jan 2012 #146

About time someone had the guts to say it straight. Many thanks! n/t Zalatix Jan 2012 #147

I beg to differ about the use of resources Catherina Jan 2012 #3

Thanks! We consume the most because of Republican / Conservative principles. Zalatix Jan 2012 #10

I'm a lot harsher than you are Catherina Jan 2012 #34

Thanks, one thing though... Zalatix Jan 2012 #38

Fully understood Catherina Jan 2012 #43

I actually bought a little manual clothes washer at the thrift store I work at. Odin2005 Jan 2012 #57

Do you have a picture of it? Or a similar one? Catherina Jan 2012 #60

Here's a pic of it I found online: Odin2005 Jan 2012 #61

That's so cute Catherina Jan 2012 #67

I used one of those for a few years. Worked a treat. I gave it to a relative living in NYC in a MADem Jan 2012 #80

I like Rosling's view of the washing machine: joshcryer Jan 2012 #76

Been delaying this because it's a long one... Zalatix Jan 2012 #94

Actually Mexico city has harsher smog control nadinbrzezinski Jan 2012 #68

Thanks. I didn't know that Catherina Jan 2012 #71

I never understood how any ordinary citizen could support free trade. n/t Little Star Jan 2012 #4

I've never understood how any working class person could vote repug. One would think it difficult SammyWinstonJack Jan 2012 #21

With the "moderate" Democrats supporting "free" trade all the time Lydia Leftcoast Jan 2012 #165

Shouldn't they start the ball rolling by giving their money to the 1% in other countries? eppur_se_muova Jan 2012 #5

+1 Little Star Jan 2012 #8

+1! Zalatix Jan 2012 #12

I think that they did with the bank bailouts. Some for our 1%. Some for the foreign countries' 1%. AnotherMcIntosh Jan 2012 #82

Somebody has to pay for that 600% profit.... orpupilofnature57 Jan 2012 #6

Shouldnt we as progressives consider ourselves citizens of the world? DCBob Jan 2012 #9

Didn't you read the OP? How about telling this to the poor of America Zalatix Jan 2012 #11

Yes. I dont think these goals are necessarily mutually exclusive. DCBob Jan 2012 #13

So you think that impoverishing America is necessary for this? Zalatix Jan 2012 #14

no. DCBob Jan 2012 #15

If we REALLY cared about the poor in other countries Lydia Leftcoast Jan 2012 #169

As you see, they'll just deny that it is happening kenny blankenship Jan 2012 #18

yup... until it happens to their selfish selves fascisthunter Jan 2012 #42

Exactly. This is a false argument. treestar Jan 2012 #35

When did Washington become the capital of the world, as opposed to the capital of the U.S.? Laelth Jan 2012 #20

February 21-28, 1972 AnotherMcIntosh Jan 2012 #83

Yes. It is not "us vs. them" it is "us AND them". pampango Jan 2012 #22

+1 Little Star Jan 2012 #27

How can we help others when we can't even help our own? n/t Little Star Jan 2012 #25

Free trade does not improve the quality of life of people living in other countries JDPriestly Jan 2012 #33

You're not against free trade, but the industrial revolution itself. treestar Jan 2012 #36

You're setting up a strawman to knock down Populist_Prole Jan 2012 #45

What argument? treestar Jan 2012 #48

Again with the buzzwords playing into the corporatitist's hands Populist_Prole Jan 2012 #58

So what do you propose be done? treestar Jan 2012 #79

They're excluding our workers. Do you get it yet? Zalatix Jan 2012 #88

What do you propose be done? treestar Jan 2012 #111

Tariffs. China uses them against us, we have a right to use them against China. Zalatix Jan 2012 #112

Then why not advocate for that? treestar Jan 2012 #115

I have never run away from arguments. However, you have. Zalatix Jan 2012 #116

You have made not one argument here for the tariff, not one treestar Jan 2012 #118

Let's look at what you previously said, and my questions that you previously avoided Zalatix Jan 2012 #122

Stop having a war with me treestar Jan 2012 #149

My questions came first and I will NOT stop demanding answers to them. EVER. Zalatix Jan 2012 #150

I did not claim that! treestar Jan 2012 #151

It is not a lie, you did say that. And it is documented. Once again: Zalatix Jan 2012 #152

Absurd. America is not the only place jobs originate! treestar Jan 2012 #153

Then you do not understand the nature of our trade deficit. Allow me to explain, with CITES. Zalatix Jan 2012 #154

If the world is dependent on our economy treestar Jan 2012 #155

So you want to talk about that whole 30% of the world's resources thing, eh? Zalatix Jan 2012 #160

Took a while to read first set of links treestar Jan 2012 #157

All your arguments are for putting Americans out of work. Zalatix Jan 2012 #158

"We already have the highest lifestyle in the world" Lydia Leftcoast Jan 2012 #166

OK, but we are still first world treestar Jan 2012 #181

I'm advocating that we should have free trade only with those countries JDPriestly Jan 2012 #73

A TRADE war? We're already in a trade war, started by China and other nations. Zalatix Jan 2012 #89

you do that... and drop the progressive moniker fascisthunter Jan 2012 #40

What's disgusting are your insults... DCBob Jan 2012 #44

No... your disgusting insult is that we as Progressives should curtail American standards of living fascisthunter Jan 2012 #49

I never said that. DCBob Jan 2012 #54

sure... good bye! fascisthunter Jan 2012 #55

What about OUR working class? What about us? Why should we go unemployed for this? Zalatix Jan 2012 #90

We shouldn't. If trade policy is done correctly and fairly is should benefit both sides. DCBob Jan 2012 #97

Well said. AnotherMcIntosh Jan 2012 #84

Dear free traders, here are more Americans losing jobs to make the rest of the world a better place. Zalatix Jan 2012 #16

You see we are makeing their lives better. Just think about those happy people at Foxcon. wandy Jan 2012 #24

It is interesting how folks paint essentially slavery as altruistic and "progressive" TheKentuckian Jan 2012 #78

You know, when ever a "centrist" or right-winger says that a certain policy will Lydia Leftcoast Jan 2012 #174

Here are three more Americans that free traders should speak to Zalatix Jan 2012 #19

That's a silk stalking horse... Skidmore Jan 2012 #26

And, let's see a few free traders donate all their money to projects in JDPriestly Jan 2012 #30

You nailed it exactly. Populist_Prole Jan 2012 #51

One can NOT be FOR "Free Trade" and Pro-LABOR at the same time. bvar22 Jan 2012 #31

Tell that to the Germans. n/t pampango Jan 2012 #62

If anyone has forgotten, maybe one of them will remind us by repeating what they said. AnotherMcIntosh Jan 2012 #85

What Skidmore says. PETRUS Jan 2012 #32

Paul Krugman supports free trade. Nye Bevan Jan 2012 #37

Oh no.... you got that poster! fascisthunter Jan 2012 #41

Doesnt Krugman's opinion mean anything to you on this issue? DCBob Jan 2012 #47

no it doesn't.... his point of view on this ISN'T progressive... it is flawed fascisthunter Jan 2012 #52

sure genius.. DCBob Jan 2012 #56

Krugman has begun to change his mind on outsourcing, so you're wrong on this, too. Zalatix Jan 2012 #92

from your linked article.. DCBob Jan 2012 #96

A 25% tariff would be far more than what we've done so far. Zalatix Jan 2012 #113

Hey fascisthunter, Krugman has started to turn away from defending free trade. Zalatix Jan 2012 #91

Not anymore! Populist_Prole Jan 2012 #50

Paul Krugman supports free trade?... NOT bvar22 Jan 2012 #64

"Krugman's views on free trade have provoked considerable ire from the anti-globalism movement". Nye Bevan Jan 2012 #66

No one here is advocating Smoot-Hawley. Elwood P Dowd Jan 2012 #72

Thank you for dispelling the Smoot-Hawley myth! Zalatix Jan 2012 #129

Krugman called for a 25% tariff on China. I posted the cite already. That's NOT free trade. Zalatix Jan 2012 #125

Has he proposed exiting NAFTA? Nye Bevan Jan 2012 #135

Free Traders are never the Ones lowering their own Standards of living for the World fascisthunter Jan 2012 #46

The dirty little secret you NEVER hear uttered by the media or pols. n/t Populist_Prole Jan 2012 #53

Post removed Post removed Jan 2012 #59

What a total pile of BS! Elwood P Dowd Jan 2012 #63

When you have to resort to such blatantly stupid ad hominem.. girl gone mad Jan 2012 #70

No, because that's an ad hominem argument. But, if that is their position, even a broken clock AnotherMcIntosh Jan 2012 #86

Thanks for posting this! LongTomH Jan 2012 #65

Many thanks LongTomH! Zalatix Jan 2012 #114

I have a solution to this that rarely comes in nadinbrzezinski Jan 2012 #69

Repubs would hate that idea (the mythical North American Union is a mainstay of bircher fears). pampango Jan 2012 #75

Alas it is in the rarely enforced side agreements of nafta nadinbrzezinski Jan 2012 #77

Free Trade doesn't help the Third World or First World. white_wolf Jan 2012 #74

There is NO "free trade". World trade is controlled by a cabal of multinational corporations. AdHocSolver Jan 2012 #87

Regarding foreign made designer clothes Hippo_Tron Jan 2012 #117

Mexico is a great circular thing since they love to bitch about immigrants. Sirveri Jan 2012 #93

Here's an uncomfortable question for you Spider Jerusalem Jan 2012 #95

+1 DCBob Jan 2012 #98

that would all be a valid point if "globalization" was improving the quality of life in the third Douglas Carpenter Jan 2012 #99

In some cases it clearly is. DCBob Jan 2012 #100

it is dishonest to represent the majority as benefiting when that is clearly not the case Douglas Carpenter Jan 2012 #102

Funny, I was just in the Philippines also. DCBob Jan 2012 #103

I would suggest taking a trip off the beaten path a little bit and away from the tourist belt Douglas Carpenter Jan 2012 #104

I certainly do get off the beaten path.. I have relatives in the province far from any major city. DCBob Jan 2012 #105

Actually call center workers in the Phlippines make about $500 / month. DCBob Jan 2012 #106

most of those jobs would be for only 6 months, would they not? Douglas Carpenter Jan 2012 #107

Yes, I think thats correct but from what I understand there are always new contracts. DCBob Jan 2012 #109

While there is a "rising middle class" in China and India, the poor are worse off than ever Lydia Leftcoast Jan 2012 #167

Interesting perspective. I haven't heard of those issues. Zalatix Jan 2012 #168

Yes, that is true also in the Philippines. Prices of almost everything are going up. DCBob Jan 2012 #177

Then what do you have to say about this? Zalatix Jan 2012 #180

Most of America's rich corporate elite are greedy bastards. DCBob Jan 2012 #183

And despite that you feel we should keep sending jobs overseas? Zalatix Jan 2012 #184

Yes, if there are proper controls and regulations in place. DCBob Jan 2012 #185

Um, there's no proper way to send American jobs out of the country. None. Zero. Nada. Zalatix Jan 2012 #186

That's an absurd statement. DCBob Jan 2012 #187

Globalization will collapse under the weight of its own absurdity. Zalatix Jan 2012 #188

I suspect the growing middle classes of China and India would probably disagree with you Spider Jerusalem Jan 2012 #119

The vast majority of Indians and Chinese are not participating in it except as victims of Douglas Carpenter Jan 2012 #126

you have no answer for these facts Zalatix Jan 2012 #128

What exactly has that got to do with the topic at hand? Spider Jerusalem Jan 2012 #130

It has everything to do with the topic at hand and yes, you absolutely do know that. Zalatix Jan 2012 #133

Welcome to globalisation Spider Jerusalem Jan 2012 #136

Food crises, pollution, slave labor & child labor are acceptable because "welcome to globalization"? Zalatix Jan 2012 #138

Reading comprehension failure Spider Jerusalem Jan 2012 #141

Reading comprehension failure.... where, again? Zalatix Jan 2012 #143

We are asked to decline our standard of living so the 1% can get more high density Jan 2012 #101

That's facile and nonsensical honestly Spider Jerusalem Jan 2012 #120

The top 1-5% of China and India are buying cars - made by slaves and high pollution Zalatix Jan 2012 #123

There is a reason why you won't respond to this... my response is even MORE uncomfortable. Zalatix Jan 2012 #127

You seem to make a lot of stupid assumptions. Spider Jerusalem Jan 2012 #131

You seem to give a lot of cowardly non-answers. Zalatix Jan 2012 #132

Stupid assumptions, again Spider Jerusalem Jan 2012 #134

Cowardly non-answers, again Zalatix Jan 2012 #137

I said America is using 30% of the world's resources. Which it is. Spider Jerusalem Jan 2012 #140

Your argument has so many errors, where to start! And can you back up anything with cites? Anything? Zalatix Jan 2012 #145

We're supposed to be glad because our poor are "better off" than those in India? Lydia Leftcoast Jan 2012 #170

You obviously refused to drink the kool-aid. Zalatix Jan 2012 #171

I have actual experience working blue collar jobs and volunteering in programs Lydia Leftcoast Jan 2012 #173

That's what I want to get into more of... community organizing to create jobs, to be specific. Zalatix Jan 2012 #175

The ProSense Jan 2012 #108

If I could give up my iphone to pull a family out of poverty, I would mdmc Jan 2012 #110

It's called foreign aid. Zalatix Jan 2012 #139

I'm a one worlder myself, but I have nothing against protecting the economy mdmc Jan 2012 #142

I'm not a one-worlder. I don't want China having a vote on my country's reproductive rights. Zalatix Jan 2012 #144

Thank you varelse Jan 2012 #121

These homeless students are making sacrifices to help the poor in other nations... Zalatix Jan 2012 #124

My church has just started a program for homeless *community college* Lydia Leftcoast Jan 2012 #176

Many unemployed will never be able to get another job - thank outsourcing for this! Zalatix Jan 2012 #148

I imagine many people rationalize that imaginary, wholly made-up red and black lines... LanternWaste Jan 2012 #156

I showed you a lot of America's poor and jobless in this thread. Why don't you tell them that? Zalatix Jan 2012 #159

Building tariff walls didn't help any country in the 1930's (except Germany but that had more to do pampango Jan 2012 #161

There is an example of a nation using tariffs to become rich. And the Smoot-Hawley story is a myth. Zalatix Jan 2012 #162

Next? Smoot-Hawley was bad republican policy. That much is not a myth. FDR knew it. pampango Jan 2012 #163

Blame foreigners? Hardly. It's about protecting American jobs. Zalatix Jan 2012 #164

Sounds like you would have been fighting FDR when he was dismantling tariffs in the 1930's and pampango Jan 2012 #178

Europe's economic model is putting them deep in debt. Fail. Zalatix Jan 2012 #179

FDR wasn't doing anything about tariffs after World War II Lydia Leftcoast Jan 2012 #189

I see a lot of affluent Americans who have never met a real poor American or Lydia Leftcoast Jan 2012 #172

Look at this very thread. Free Traders FEAR to talk about the poor in Western nations. Zalatix Jan 2012 #182