In the discussion thread: This Girl Has A Question That'll Stump Your Conservative Friends [View all]
Response to RC (Reply #16)
Fri Aug 3, 2012, 01:04 PM
stupidicus (1,179 posts)
22. I have oodles
and what few cons their was amongst them, (those I interact with regularly anyway) they were harshly shown the error of their ways back in the Bush years.
Someone being a relative doesn't mean squat to me in this context. My political povs, etc, were forged back in the waning days of the VN War, when I had an Archie Bunker-like, pro-war father with a buzz cut. Just because he was my dad didn't mean he got a pass from the condemnations, etc, that I'd offer the common racist, homophobic, apathetic, warmongering, torture-supporting, etc, Pee Partier of today.
Imo, it's the lack of the father against son, brother against brother, etc, condition, like that seen in the VN/civil rights and Civil War eras, and the interpersonal conflicts and the divisions that result, that explain in no small part the rise of the modern rightwingnut and their numbers. If my family was comprised of Pee Partiers, they'd not be seeing me at the thanksgiving table. Why would I wanna spend my time with a group of/a person that thinks I'm a infanticidal marxist muslim born in kenya who's the terrorists best friend and America hater supporter, or in the alternative, those that are likely also racists, homophobes, islamophobes, and part of the "let them eat dirt/die" crowd? Once those lines are drawn in the proverbial sand, there are only three choices available -- give them a pass by virtue of the family relationship alone and overlook it, treat them as you would any stranger of like mind, or divorce yourself from the relationship. Since I don't waste much time beating my head against the proverbial wall arguing with fools or tools, and can't in the interest of those all their povs and political support harm, remain silent, the third option works best for me. ANd in the case of those former Bushbotted relatives, it was they that after the silence and an examination of the evidence, that broke and offered a "You were right!", and apologized for all the "you hate the troops, love the terrosist" crap so prevalent in that crowd back then. It doesn't matter to me if that stuff comes as a direct and personal charge, or by way of implication based on what I support or condemn, the insult remains the same.
And besides, aren't we all defined by who and what we support, and hang with? There's nothing fair/just about giving family or friends a pass for things we'd ream the butts of strangers for, it just shows that the ones that do so, are willing to elevate due to self-interest, the value of relationships with people over the needs of those people that their vote would deny them. And if you give them the treatment you rightly would the stranger, what are the odds the realtionship is gonna retain the depth, breadth, and quality it had? Zero I'd say. To me the choice in this instance, is between preserving relationships with people who support various injustices, or serving the interests of those (often oneself as well) victimized by the injustices they support. I have an uncle Tom, but I'll never be one, because silence is consent, and tolerance for intolerance is an enabling of it.
I'd add also, that imo, that it has been the fear or existence of such alienation that explains in no small part the rise in support for gay marriage, etc, and in my long argued opinion on the other side of the coin, the widespread acceptance and tolerance for islamophobia since 9/11, that opened the door for so many racists to make inroads from the fringes of the public square where they once largely resided prior to it. Evil grows when good men stay silent. End of story. The same can be said as was seen by me in my relationship with my dad, for the changes in attitudes over the VN war, civil rights, etc. The enactment of the CRA in 1964 didn't change heartsd and minds, it was the collective effort of those of us that tenaciously championed those causes publicly -- and privately as I'm arguing for here -- that did. ANd the bottom line is, if the Pee Partiers, homophobes, racists, warmongers, torture-supporters, etc, pay no price for their povs, then there's no incentive for them to change.
“I’m always glad to get comments four years later,” McCain told Fox News, laughing. “Look, I respect the vice president. He and I had strong disagreements as to whether we should torture people or not. I don’t think we should have.”
Sorry, I can neither like nor respect a war criminal, or anyone (an enabler) that does, whether a relative or not, when it's clear that they know exactly what it is they are supporting. You might as well turn McCain black and change torture to the CRA of 1964. How as a victim, do you respect someone who'd keep you a second class citizen? ANd I'd ask as well, on a personal level, how could a relative or what would they base it on, respect someone they paint as a lilly-livered traitor supporter (based on the aforementioned rightwingnut description of BHO) that isn't in their face correcting them? That's the fuel that keeps bullies big and small thriving, the knowledge there is no price for their dirty deeds, and that it is they that have all the "respect", albeit of the less than desirable kind, as all fear-based respect is.
We see the same thing in almost all of DC politicians across the ideological divide as well. The sad part is, while the rightwingnuts have spent decades freely and without fear of reprisal painting/defining our kind in the most egregious and dishonest ways available, there's been little reciprocity (well, recently Kucinich, Grayson, and Weiner come to mind) from their dem/liberal victims, despite them having the facts on their side to make and sustain the case against the brownshirts.
Civility is way overrated, and tolerance for their intolerance is gonna be the death of this republic. That is after all, why they feel free to argue, no matter how stupidly and stupid it is, that it is those that are condemning the chick-fil-a people, that are the only "real", intolerant ones.
SO yeah, I'd give any relative a hearty "fuck you" that attended a rightwingnut Chick-fil-a-fest, or a host of other things the modern rightwingnut stands for, and hope they didn't like it.
Does this answer your question...lol?
Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
|A Simple Game||Aug 2012||#10|
|A Simple Game||Aug 2012||#14|
|NYC Liberal||Aug 2012||#15|
I have oodles
Please login to view edit histories.