Reply #86

In the discussion thread: TAX THE AMMO!!! [View all]

Wed Jul 25, 2012, 05:29 PM

X_Digger (13,124 posts)

86. You know that repealing the second amendment wouldn't remove the right, correct?

Rights aren't granted by the bill of rights; the bill of rights is a 'the government shall not' document, not a 'the people can' document.

No, if you repealed the second amendment, then the right would still exist in various state constitutions (see tenth amendment). If the various states repealed their analogues of the second amendment, then it would be an unenumerated right under the ninth.

Sorry, the right protected by the second will not go away.

US v Cruikshank

"This is not a right granted by the Constitution. Neither is it in any manner dependent upon that instrument for its existence.

Presser v Illinois

"the States cannot, even laying the constitutional provision in question out of view, prohibit the people from keeping and bearing arms"

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111 replies	Author	Time	Post
TAX THE AMMO!!! [View all]	gopiscrap	Jul 2012	OP
That would be just as unconstitutional as a poll tax.	badtoworse	Jul 2012	#1
Bullshit	gopiscrap	Jul 2012	#3
No, you're wrong. See Minneapolis Star & Tribune Co. v. Minnesota Commissioner of Revenue, 1983	benEzra	Jul 2012	#13
There is a tax on cigarettes	Aerows	Jul 2012	#30
When SCOTUS comes out with a ruling	SickOfTheOnePct	Jul 2012	#37
But if the tax is % (like sales-tax), then producers and vendors are responsible for the costs.	DetlefK	Jul 2012	#54
The effect of the tax is the issue, not the manner in which it is levied.	badtoworse	Jul 2012	#57
But the government would be free of any responsibility.	DetlefK	Jul 2012	#67
An across the board sales tax, i.e. one that applied to everything would be OK.	badtoworse	Jul 2012	#68
YES!	FarPoint	Jul 2012	#51
Ammunition is freedom of speech?	RC	Jul 2012	#69
Ammunition is to the 2ndA what printer's ink is to the 1stA, so the precedent is relevant.	benEzra	Jul 2012	#72
Just levy the tax on any round NOT FIRED IN SELF-DEFENSE or defense of another person.	lastlib	Jul 2012	#82
That would be like saying the 1stA protects published speech, but not unpublished speech, I think.	benEzra	Jul 2012	#93
Thinking like that would effectively hand over control to repubs.	Pacafishmate	Jul 2012	#109
You mean like cigarets?	RC	Jul 2012	#88
Come On Now - What About The Taxes On Cigarettes......	global1	Jul 2012	#11
The issue would be the 2nd Amendment	NickB79	Jul 2012	#15
Not when the purpose of the tax is to restrict a Constitutional right.	hack89	Jul 2012	#20
Doesn't pass the bullshit test	Major Nikon	Jul 2012	#96
The OP is proposing an ammo tax for the express purpose of restricting access	hack89	Jul 2012	#98
I didn't see anything in the OP about restricting access	Major Nikon	Jul 2012	#99
How does a victim fund "protect folks"?	hack89	Jul 2012	#100
So what do you think $400 to register a gun does?	Major Nikon	Jul 2012	#101
Onerous fees and elaborate hoops (made intentionally worse by govt)..	X_Digger	Jul 2012	#102
Those fees have been deemed constitutional in court - I have no problem with them. nt	hack89	Jul 2012	#103
So call it a bullet fee	Major Nikon	Jul 2012	#104
It is a pure commercial transaction - I am not buying anything from the government.	hack89	Jul 2012	#105
It's already explained in the OP	Major Nikon	Jul 2012	#106
So it has to be a small enough amount so as to not make ammo too expensive	hack89	Jul 2012	#107
Assault ammo isn't as dangerous as cigarettes. n/t	2on2u	Jul 2012	#53
Bullshit, badtoworse	catbyte	Jul 2012	#26
True	SickOfTheOnePct	Jul 2012	#29
Do you have anything to back up that statement. Or did you pull it out of your assets? I say bullsh	rhett o rick	Jul 2012	#31
Poll taxes were used to prevent a class of citizens from exercising the civil right to vote	badtoworse	Jul 2012	#43
Bullets are votes?...	lame54	Jul 2012	#58
Access to them is one of your civil rights and the OP's tax would restrict that right.	badtoworse	Jul 2012	#60
don't confuse bullets with guns	lame54	Jul 2012	#70
The 2nd Amendment refers to arms, not bullets or guns	badtoworse	Jul 2012	#73
ban the ammo.	ileus	Jul 2012	#2
And 10 seconds later the Democratic party would be voted out of every part of government	NickB79	Jul 2012	#8
not to mention every locality were people own guns from school boards to dogcatcher	loli phabay	Jul 2012	#10
But we'd all be safe from their bullets.	ileus	Jul 2012	#23
No, we wouldn't	NickB79	Jul 2012	#25
You are soo right. We must just lay down and let the gun crazies shot up our families.	rhett o rick	Jul 2012	#32
You are sooo right. We need to enact policies that accomplish nothing and hand over all control	joeglow3	Jul 2012	#64
That's what the gun "enthusiasts" would have us believe. Everything we	rhett o rick	Jul 2012	#74
That's what history has shown us	NickB79	Jul 2012	#77
So you are saying we are afraid of the gun crazies. We give up our principles	rhett o rick	Jul 2012	#90
No, we need to find intelligent solutions to these problems	NickB79	Jul 2012	#75
We have one group that in my estimation, is a majority saying we need more control	rhett o rick	Jul 2012	#89
Sure.	HappyMe	Jul 2012	#4
Tend to agree with that	gopiscrap	Jul 2012	#5
It already is, in several ways	NickB79	Jul 2012	#6
Let's Protect The Wildlife So We Have Enough Around For Target Practice.....	global1	Jul 2012	#12
Okay	atreides1	Jul 2012	#7
Sounds good	justanidea	Jul 2012	#9
You cant be series. Maybe we should give more people guns and make it manditory	rhett o rick	Jul 2012	#33
I don't tend to favor mandatory purchases of any market good or service	TheKentuckian	Jul 2012	#44
They'd go naked and hungry in order to buy ammo. n/t	TheCowsCameHome	Jul 2012	#14
Of course, government employees would be exempt from the proposed ammunition tax	slackmaster	Jul 2012	#16
You seem to enjoy our consternation. Shame on us for trying to protect ourselves	rhett o rick	Jul 2012	#34
It's likely that many things in your life pose a far greater risk than violent crime does	slackmaster	Jul 2012	#39
hmmm	Troy Cookin with Gas	Jul 2012	#17
The VA Tech shooter used a .22 rimfire handgun	NickB79	Jul 2012	#19
He didn't have time to practice.	julian09	Jul 2012	#83
I agree. It's a waste of resources to be firing weapons for the fun of it...	Comrade_McKenzie	Jul 2012	#18
You need to practice regularly to shoot a weapon effectively	NickB79	Jul 2012	#22
So the shooter in Colorado would have worried about expensive ammo???? Jesus, really? n-t	Logical	Jul 2012	#21
...and create a thriving black market similar to the one for drugs.	Lizzie Poppet	Jul 2012	#24
One more reason this won't work	dmallind	Jul 2012	#27
Chris Rock on taxing ammo	krhines	Jul 2012	#28
Perfect.....	FarPoint	Jul 2012	#52
And we're supposed to believe Chris Rock?	permatex	Jul 2012	#56
The only thing I disagree with here is your low-ball suggestions for the more powerful caliber	calimary	Jul 2012	#35
So you would make it so that only the 1% could own guns? nt	justanidea	Jul 2012	#38
Frankly, my dear, if it were up to me, I'd make it so that hardly ANYBODY could own	calimary	Jul 2012	#42
Even if your proposal would've worked to save lives	justanidea	Jul 2012	#45
Only a tyrant to those who just HAVE TO HAVE those fucking hand-held weapons of mass destruction.	calimary	Jul 2012	#48
This should be an OP, Calimary.	99Forever	Jul 2012	#61
BRAVO!! BRAVO!! BRAVO!! x1E50!!	lastlib	Jul 2012	#85
Not sure where you're getting your information, but...	KarlHungus08	Jul 2012	#108
beautiful rant, calimary! I couldn't agree more but with the words and passion you put forth.	CTyankee	Jul 2012	#79
That won't protect anyone.	jp11	Jul 2012	#36
at the very least then....	gopiscrap	Jul 2012	#40
I'd suggest taxing guns too.	backscatter712	Jul 2012	#41
Annually	quaker bill	Jul 2012	#46
As long as we're taxing Constitutional rights...	justanidea	Jul 2012	#47
Well	quaker bill	Jul 2012	#49
What's a "full arsenal"?	badtoworse	Jul 2012	#55
Whatever sales taxes are where you live.	quaker bill	Jul 2012	#92
Taxing civil rights is different than taxing anything else	badtoworse	Jul 2012	#94
I would not possess a firearm	quaker bill	Jul 2012	#95
That is entirely up to you. Good discussion, though.	badtoworse	Jul 2012	#97
Poll taxes weren't considered "prohibitive" either	slackmaster	Jul 2012	#65
A tax specifically for something covered in the constitution	4th law of robotics	Jul 2012	#63
Because every firearm can be organized into Military and civillian	IvanKilmensky	Nov 2012	#110
Firearms and Ammo are already taxed 20% in my area	belcffub	Jul 2012	#50
not even close	DrDan	Jul 2012	#78
to what	belcffub	Jul 2012	#91
It is taxed.	krispos42	Jul 2012	#59
It would also spawn a blackmarket.	Remmah2	Jul 2012	#66
of course not - perhaps a couple of bucks gets closer	DrDan	Jul 2012	#80
If you were planning a killing spree that would leave you dead or in jail for the rest of your life	4th law of robotics	Jul 2012	#62
Like taxing printer's ink and paper?	X_Digger	Jul 2012	#71
repeal second ammendment and citizens united at same time.	julian09	Jul 2012	#84
You know that repealing the second amendment wouldn't remove the right, correct?	X_Digger	Jul 2012	#86
The rich people will thank you - now only govt and rich will have these things	The Straight Story	Jul 2012	#76
x1E28! K & R!	lastlib	Jul 2012	#81
That's Ridiculous...	-..__...	Jul 2012	#87
HOW ABOUT I TAX YOUR WEED	IvanKilmensky	Nov 2012	#111

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