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Fri Oct 5, 2012, 11:13 AM

Did Romney cheat to win the debate? Videtape evidence shows tha he did.....o

"The rules of the presidential debates are clear about not bringing outside notes and presidents and aspirants have followed the rule for decades.

Video of the first eleven seconds of the debate available on YouTube shows Mitt Romney reaching into his pocket at the moment he is out of view of those in front of him, he used the lectern as a shield, and removing what appears to be folded papers from his pocket."



http://boston.cbslocal.com/2012/10/05/upon-further-review-mitt-romney-may-have-cheated-to-win-the-debate/

Dirty, lying, cheating scoundrel is generous to Mitt. It is kind of not fair to the dirty, lying, cheating scoundrels of the world.

Video proof here: &sns=tw

40 replies, 5705 views

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Arrow 40 replies Author Time Post
Reply Did Romney cheat to win the debate? Videtape evidence shows tha he did.....o (Original post)
GumboYaYa Oct 2012 OP
Nancy Waterman Oct 2012 #1
GumboYaYa Oct 2012 #3
bluestateguy Oct 2012 #2
GumboYaYa Oct 2012 #4
bluestateguy Oct 2012 #6
GumboYaYa Oct 2012 #7
hexola Oct 2012 #13
2pooped2pop Oct 2012 #24
dawnec1957 Oct 2012 #34
2pooped2pop Oct 2012 #39
cilla4progress Oct 2012 #30
nc4bo Oct 2012 #5
yellowcanine Oct 2012 #9
hexola Oct 2012 #11
nc4bo Oct 2012 #12
hexola Oct 2012 #14
nc4bo Oct 2012 #17
hexola Oct 2012 #18
gkhouston Oct 2012 #22
Politicalboi Oct 2012 #28
polichick Oct 2012 #25
hollysmom Oct 2012 #8
GumboYaYa Oct 2012 #10
Myrina Oct 2012 #15
toddwv Oct 2012 #16
patrice Oct 2012 #35
hexola Oct 2012 #19
NightOwwl Oct 2012 #20
aletier_v Oct 2012 #27
smorkingapple Oct 2012 #21
GumboYaYa Oct 2012 #23
aletier_v Oct 2012 #26
patrice Oct 2012 #31
MatthewStLouis Oct 2012 #40
Cleita Oct 2012 #29
patrice Oct 2012 #32
marezdotes Oct 2012 #33
patrice Oct 2012 #36
dawnec1957 Oct 2012 #37
longship Oct 2012 #38

Response to GumboYaYa (Original post)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 11:15 AM

1. Any video proof of this?

That would be quite powerful.

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Response to Nancy Waterman (Reply #1)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 11:17 AM

3. Sorry, I was trying to get the link in my post and failed

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Response to GumboYaYa (Original post)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 11:16 AM

2. we'll need proof

The bulge in Bush's jacket in his first debate in 2004 turned out to be a blind alley. So evidence is needed.

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Response to bluestateguy (Reply #2)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 11:18 AM

4. Here is the video

&sns=tw

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Response to GumboYaYa (Reply #4)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 11:20 AM

6. That's not going to be enough

Candidates are allowed to use blank paper to take notes in the debate. We would need to see that there was stuff written on that paper beforehand.

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Response to bluestateguy (Reply #6)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 11:25 AM

7. Canditaes are supplied paer and pen to take notes...I beleive that they are explicitly prohibited

from bringing in their own paper.

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Response to GumboYaYa (Reply #7)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 11:50 AM

13. I think the candidates can supply the paper and pen/pencil of their choice.

But it has to be given to the commission staff in advance - and placed at the podium by the staff...

I would make sense that the commission would be just as fussy about picking it up?

Were there any notes left at Mitts podium?

The 2004 rules prohibit "tangible objects" - so even the hanky is a violation.

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Response to hexola (Reply #13)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 04:01 PM

24. he picked them up at the end

First he fumbled with them trying to get them packed up but didn't have enough time, so you can see him slide them under the other paper.

Then later when the Obama's are leaving, you can see him go mess with them some more and it looked like he was putting the cheats inside another paper. Then he tried twice to get it in his own pocket before handing it off to his son. Ann could not keep her eyes off the paper and you can see her mouth "we need to get off the stage"

Check up the close ups on the other thread. Whatever is on his podium has been folded and has words on it. It is not the hankie.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=119479

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Response to 2pooped2pop (Reply #24)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 04:25 PM

34. fumbled papers and 2

Did you notice in the very first part of the clip that Romney tosses the papers on the podium after taking them out of if right pants pocket, but just two to three seconds later you can see him (well his arm) putting something back into his left jacket pocket. A cheater covers the notes with hanky, removes the notes as debate host talks, then tucks the hanky back in pocket.......Later, if you go frame bu frame, you can see him looking down at his notes (this is before he takes any notes himself)

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Response to dawnec1957 (Reply #34)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 04:58 PM

39. I need to watch the whole thing again.

I did notice he seemed to be reading and only once did I see him maybe write stuff and that was when he was listing about 6 things that Obama had said that he wanted to go over one by one. Other than that I don't remember seeing him write anything but he sure did appear to be reading something.

The fact that the Romney camp has responded may be quite telling. If there was nothing to see, they might have just ignored the speculation but they seem to want to put a stop to it. lol

We need to see if we can find out if he did put that hankie back in his pocket. I don't know if we can see where he pulled it from when he mopped his lip with it.

good catch on the putting hankie back in pocket.

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Response to bluestateguy (Reply #2)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 04:14 PM

30. What do you mean blind alley?

Because MSM wouldn't pursue? Or turned out to be something innocuous? If so, what was it? Dying to know!

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Response to GumboYaYa (Original post)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 11:18 AM

5. Starting to hit M$M I see - good! Let them ask if Mitt cheated and/or explain

his hand to pocket to podium action and the fast collection and pass off of the papers to his son after the debate and Ann's lips saying "get off the stage".

We've got a huge thread going about this

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Response to nc4bo (Reply #5)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 11:41 AM

9. Problem is both candidates had paper to take notes on. It is not surprising that

Mitt would retrieve any notes he took during the debate. Without unambiguous evidence that he what he removed from his pocket was a paper with notes on it I think this is a nonstarter. Even then, do we know each candidate wasn't allowed a crib sheet? I am doubtful there is anything here.

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Response to yellowcanine (Reply #9)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 11:45 AM

11. The Comission staff places the paper and pens - not sure they are supposed to retrieve them also.

I dont recall seeing this addressed in the 2004 rules.

I agree - retrieving notes seems normal.

But - its also the moment he was counting on to make it easy to hide evidence.

Has anyone pinpointed what Obama did? Did he leave his notes?

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Response to yellowcanine (Reply #9)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 11:47 AM

12. Let Mitt & Co. answer for it then ~or~ lie about it.

He took something out of his pocket and put it on the podium then fumbled around with it once it was there. He then stopped mingling with the crew and went back to pick it up, carefully folding it then hot potatoed it to his son who then stashed it.

Obama did no such thing.

I'm remaining objective but I want Mitt to explain what we just saw on tape.

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Response to nc4bo (Reply #12)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 11:53 AM

14. Did the networks stay with the stage feed - or just CSPAN?

I dont have cable - just curious if Mitt thought he was "off"

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Response to hexola (Reply #14)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 11:56 AM

17. I don't know hexola - CSPAN almost always had complete coverage on the boring stuff before and after

where the networks won't waste their time on mic checks and meet n greets after the event is over.

I'd like to know this myself.

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Response to nc4bo (Reply #17)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 11:59 AM

18. Im be sure CSPAN stayed with it while they took phone calls.

But the networks might be in a hurry to get the talking heads on...

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Response to hexola (Reply #14)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 02:37 PM

22. I'm hoping someone has different angles on this. n/t

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Response to nc4bo (Reply #12)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 04:11 PM

28. And we never saw him

Fold up his hankie and put it back in his pocket. I guess that would require watching the whole video again, and even then you don't always see what Rmoney's doing. I find the way Rmoney was looking at Jim as he was pulling his cheat sheet out to be strange. Rmoney looked guilty.

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Response to nc4bo (Reply #5)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 04:02 PM

25. Has msnbc covered this yet?

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Response to GumboYaYa (Original post)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 11:34 AM

8. It is not like he followed any of the rules of the debate,

why should this be different.

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Response to hollysmom (Reply #8)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 11:43 AM

10. Liar and cheater are two sides of the same coin

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Response to GumboYaYa (Original post)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 11:54 AM

15. That's totally folded paper ... not a handkerchief!!

Not that I'm all psyched that we get on the Faux-like whiner train "waaah waaah, the other guy cheated!" but its just more evidence in a long list that Rmoney is completely convinced that he's better than the rest of us & doesn't need to play by the rules that apply to the 47%. He's such a Smarmy Elitist Asshole.

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Response to GumboYaYa (Original post)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 11:55 AM

16. Honestly,

The weight and behavior of the object is more consistent with a handkerchief than a piece of paper.

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Response to toddwv (Reply #16)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 04:26 PM

35. There's no way in hell they would've been dumb enough to take that size of a piece of PAPER up

there and have him so obviously, in full view of the President himself, reach into his pocket and take it out even behind the podium where they surely knew there were cameras too, but it is also true that you can write on silk, especially with certain fabric finishes, quite nicely. People have been doing that for centuries.

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Response to GumboYaYa (Original post)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 12:27 PM

19. There's a bunch of photographers on the right - there must be some solid HD evidence.

Somewhere!

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Response to GumboYaYa (Original post)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 01:12 PM

20. Why the hell would he need a cheat sheet...

when all he did was pull lies out of his ass?

It was a hankie, but that doesn't make him any less of a sleazebag.

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Response to NightOwwl (Reply #20)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 04:09 PM

27. Maybe he was trying to keep the lies consistent for a few hours

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Response to GumboYaYa (Original post)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 02:12 PM

21. STOP THIS SHIT PLEASE!!!

I don't give 45 fucks if he had every single RW blogger mic'ed into his ear and a screen of what to say scrolling across his podium.

I could have demolished Romney with a blindfold, one ear plugged and off 1 hour of sleep even with those advantages for him.

Obama missed layups and softballs that were tailor-made to be rebutted with ease. No excuses for it.

We know they cheat and lie. In breaking news 2+2=4 and the sun rises in the east.

This is why you come to debates ready to destroy and piss on ashes, not the lackluster, let me not try to damage my likeability shit Obama was on.

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Response to smorkingapple (Reply #21)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 02:39 PM

23. Two things can be tru at the same time and there is no reason to get angry about it.

Obama can be lackluster and suck in the debate. But that doesn't change the fact that Romney may have cheated too.

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Response to smorkingapple (Reply #21)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 04:08 PM

26. begone, R&RoboTroll

The issue is not Obama's debating skill.

The issue is if Romney cheated.

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Response to smorkingapple (Reply #21)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 04:15 PM

31. Margins consist of people who know one whole hell of a lot less about it than you do. Put yourself

in their shoes and tune in to two guys talking, two guys whom you may never have ever actually listened to directly before (you always listen to someone else giving you at best 2nd hand, but often 3rd hand or worst, interpretations of what these guys are saying). So you're listening and watching for practically the first sustained exposure you've had and one guy is saying things and the other guy says nothing but, TTE, "That's a lie" or "That's not true". You barely really know either one of them or the issues at all, so you don't know lies when you hear them, which means that you don't know that EVERY word out of Rongny's mouth is a lie AND (because Rongny says nothing but lies that you don't know are lies) Obama says practically nothing but, TTE, "That's false". Which fellow would you regard as more informative, the one who appears to be giving you information (even though you don't know that information is a lie), or the guy who appears incapable of saying anything but an attack in one form or another on everything that the other guy is telling you?

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Response to smorkingapple (Reply #21)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 06:06 PM

40. I say again: GOPers don't care if he's a cheater: other voters do! /nt

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Response to GumboYaYa (Original post)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 04:13 PM

29. Would a pathological liar be too ethical to cheat?

I think we all know the answer.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #29)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 04:19 PM

32. Bain actively promoted a culture of lying about the competition and Rongny was known to

support that tactic by allusion, a.k.a. plausible deniability.

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Response to GumboYaYa (Original post)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 04:20 PM

33. I noticed it as it happened.

He actually slipped paper out of his pants pocket and slid it on to his podium but he did it in such a weirdly sneaky way that it kind of creeped me out and I didn't get why he would be so slight of hand about it. I didn't know till now about the rule.

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Response to marezdotes (Reply #33)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 04:36 PM

36. Even if it was a hankie, you can write on silk quite nicely, especially with certain fabric finishes

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Response to marezdotes (Reply #33)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 04:38 PM

37. and then he...

after Romney slipped the notes out of his right side pants pocket, (it could have been in a handkerchief as a cover) he seems to slip something back into his left jacket pocket 2-3 seconds later. Watch his left arm motion.

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Response to GumboYaYa (Original post)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 04:55 PM

38. Sorry DUers. This is a non-starter.

For one, the evidence is dodgy. One sees what one wants to see. And blowing up the video doesn't help. This is just mystery mongering, searching for anomalies that support a preconceived notion that Mitt had notes.

And the argument that people do not put hankies in their pants pockets is utterly lame.

Let this one go. It isn't worth it. There isn't enough data to determine whether Mitt had notes or not. All anybody has is a video from an awkward angle which is anything but definitive.

Plus, there's the big issue that he lied like a rug throughout the debate. And the Big Bird shit. And the overt dismissal of the decorum and disrespect of Jim Lehrer. These things are far worse than a fuzzy amplified video that maybe shows a piece of paper from Mitt's pocket.

Let it go. It isn't that important because nothing will ever come of it and we'll look like fools to keep bringing it up.

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