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Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:45 PM

The Eye of the Beholder

I'm very surprised about the reaction of many on this forum regarding Obama's performance. I was on HuffPost reading the Chat they had, and also it seemed to me these people were living on another planet. I went to conservative forums and also saw equally alien and contrary interpretations of what was actually happening.

I have a confession to make. Up until recently, I was conservative, probably to the right of Attila the Hun. What changed for me slowly, and finally took me over the edge just recently, was the fact that Romney was regarded as a dishonest flip flopper throughout the primaries, but now he is compared to Reagan. I realized then that mankind, as a whole, is quite fallible, though that should have been obvious before, and that man is, generally, a self-delusional creature. Time and time again, I realized I was being lied to even about the most basic of things. Meanwhile, people simply embraced their delusions and all sorts of evil things without thinking twice about it. This has shaken me a great deal, which has led me to have a more open mind about what is going on in politics today.

Therefore, I went into this debate a new man, as if nothing before had ever really existed. And so I'm watching the debate and monitoring the chatrooms of various forums, and what conservatives saw as "media bias" against Romney, you guys (and others) saw as the moderator caving into Romney. What conservatives saw as liberal spin, you guys (and others) saw as the moderator aiding Romney. And what conservatives saw as a "win," I myself saw as nothing more than brainless fluff.

I have a good example here. When Romney was talking about medicare, he kept talking about "young people" who would be facing the changes, but that current retirees, which he defined as 60 and above, would face no changes. And so Obama replies "If you're 54 or 55 years old, you better listen to this" and then he goes on to take apart Romney's plan. And then Romney's big reply was... to repeat exactly the same thing he said before, essentially confirming that if you're 59 years old "you better listen" to Obama's points. Obama, effectively, tore apart Romney's plan and even made him sound foolish with his "young 59 year old people" statement. I saw this multiple times throughout the debate. Romney just repeated himself, and Obama kept bringing in new points with each response. I also thought Obama's response about Romney's lack of specificity to not just be accurate, but also very powerful. And Romney, in turn, never once responded with specifics even when specifically asked! And when he DID ask for specifics... it was when he was taking Obama's positions.

So before while I hated Romney's guts, after this debate my opinion of Obama is very high and he definitely has my vote. And I suspect that anyone looking at this debate to make a DECISION will come away feeling more confident about Obama.

The essential problem with you guys is that... you're upset Obama didn't say everything that you yourself would have liked to have said. Sure, you imagine in your heads the PERFECT debate, and then when you compare the actual performance to your dream you become depressed. However, from a perfectly objective point of view, my conclusion is that Obama was far more specific and persuasive than Mitt Romney, and that this, ultimately, will be a positive thing for people who were undecided.

The only people upset with Obama are the Repugs, and Democrats who are already going to vote for Obama because they understand the issues very well.

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Reply The Eye of the Beholder (Original post)
CthulhusEvilCousin Oct 2012 OP
elleng Oct 2012 #1
liberalmuse Oct 2012 #2
FrenchieCat Oct 2012 #3
KT2000 Oct 2012 #4
courseofhistory Oct 2012 #5
CthulhusEvilCousin Oct 2012 #6

Response to CthulhusEvilCousin (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:48 PM

1. Thanks for this very interesting analysis

and WELCOME, Cousin!

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Response to CthulhusEvilCousin (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:50 PM

2. Thank you.

I enjoyed reading this from someone who was able to go into this fresh. I read the feeds and even part of the transcript. Romney comes across as arrogant even in writing, LOL. He was pretty condescending to Lehrer and the Prez in the transcript. And some of the reactions I'm seeing in non-political forums mirror yours. I'm getting that a lot of young people are really up on politics and they see the BS clearly whereas people my age are remembering that Americans like all bluster and no substance. I don't know that this is the case so much anymore.

Again, thanks for posting, and welcome to DU!

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Response to CthulhusEvilCousin (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:51 PM

3. Yep.....

Content matters when one is making a decision that will affect their lives,
and so I think that at the end of the day, Obama was able to get more facts out there,
while Romney was lying a mile a minute!

Anyways.....I agree with you...and unfortunately for the Left, there has been a real problem with
them in reacting to Pres. Obama. It's great when he's ahead, but as soon as the man needs folks
to be thoughtful and have his back, instead one gets to witness a pile on....as is evidenced here.



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Response to CthulhusEvilCousin (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 12:42 AM

4. this is interesting and

there is something else that may account for the response from here.
Romney is a man fighting to win for himself.
Obama is a man working for the best interests of the country.
We are riled up and we want to see him fight for us like he does on the campaign trail.
We want to see that fire.

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Response to CthulhusEvilCousin (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 12:54 AM

5. It is still going to be the swing states that decide

I think the debate was won by Obama on substance. Romney responded that he wasn't going to do what Obama said but didn't give any details about how it was different or what he would do. That's easy stuff.

Also, I watched CNN who had a ticker on the screen and it was for Colorado independents (men and women). They consistently gave Obama higher marks upt to 100 at times and rarely up that high for Obama. Romney dipped below 50 about 5-6 times while Obama never did. On education and health care, Obama received a definite win. Women overall were rating Obama higher than men and Romney. Overall I'd say with them Obama won about 60 to 40 or in that general range give or take a few. 15-20% edge. On some issues and specific statements as I said Obama was as much as 20 to 30 pts. ahead of Romney

I think in swing states it will be about the same. But as Nate Silver of Five thirty eight says, the challenger is often perceived as the winner and gets a bounce.

It doesn't really matter what pundits thought or voters nationally thought for the most part (unless a lot of peple voter on punditry), it is what the swing voters think and I think he will win with them.

It aggravates me though that commentary by pundits and R supporters didn't look at the substance in the answers and lack of details on Romney's part but many people in this country vote on sounbites and that's unfortunate.

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Response to courseofhistory (Reply #5)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 09:58 PM

6. That's really

That's really the major danger here. The pundits manipulating the election based on perception without substance. Let us hope that the swing voters look at the substance instead of buying the hype. But, sad fact is, human beings are far more likely to buy the hype.

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