HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Topics » Justice & Public Safety » Gun Control & RKBA (Group) » Please sign this petition...
Introducing Discussionist: A new forum by the creators of DU

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 12:47 AM

Please sign this petition on the White House site to sensibly reform gun laws, and pass it around.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/increase-discussion-regulation-and-taxation-assault-weapons-using-article-2section-3-constitution/JZKxN37J

so if this gets 25,000 signatures in a month, they have to discuss it at a white house policy meeting and decide who replies to it.

since article 2,sec 3 means obama, maybe he'll actually say something..

worth a try. thats the whole thing below.

we petition the obama administration to:
Increase the Discussion, Regulation and Taxation of assault weapons by using Article 2,Section 3 of the Constitution

to convene a Special Commission of 51 Senators to create legislation to:

1. collect a 25% tax on all new gun purchases, used for improving our nation's mental health screening and care.

2. change firearm laws to be similar to automobile laws, requiring titles, training, testing, insurance, and inspection for guns, and declare guns with clips holding 7 or more bullets to be assault style.

3. create an internet forum for citizens to participate in a rational discussion of the epidemic of gun violence, and begin to reduce the influence of pro-gun lobbies.

While gun ownership is a right, the word right means both "a just claim or title" and "adherence to moral and legal principles and authority." There are more guns than cars in America, and the amount of laws should reflect that.
Created: Dec 17, 2012
Issues: Consumer Protections, Firearms, Health Care

33 replies, 2852 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 33 replies Author Time Post
Reply Please sign this petition on the White House site to sensibly reform gun laws, and pass it around. (Original post)
farminator3000 Dec 2012 OP
discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2012 #1
farminator3000 Dec 2012 #3
Clames Dec 2012 #5
gejohnston Dec 2012 #7
farminator3000 Dec 2012 #8
gejohnston Dec 2012 #9
farminator3000 Dec 2012 #10
gejohnston Dec 2012 #12
farminator3000 Dec 2012 #13
gejohnston Dec 2012 #14
farminator3000 Dec 2012 #17
gejohnston Dec 2012 #20
gejohnston Dec 2012 #21
farminator3000 Dec 2012 #23
gejohnston Dec 2012 #24
Glaug-Eldare Dec 2012 #27
farminator3000 Dec 2012 #18
gejohnston Dec 2012 #22
farminator3000 Dec 2012 #11
pop topcan Dec 2012 #16
gejohnston Dec 2012 #2
uppityperson Dec 2012 #4
farminator3000 Dec 2012 #6
pop topcan Dec 2012 #15
farminator3000 Dec 2012 #19
Glaug-Eldare Dec 2012 #26
farminator3000 Dec 2012 #29
Atypical Liberal Dec 2012 #30
my boy x dog Dec 2012 #25
farminator3000 Dec 2012 #28
Atypical Liberal Dec 2012 #31
PavePusher Dec 2012 #32
farminator3000 Dec 2012 #33


Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #1)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 01:36 AM

3. i'd sign yours but there's a mistake or two

gun laws could have stopped him or slowed him a dozen different ways- if his mother hadn't been allowed to own such a ridiculously powerful gun and so many bullets, for instance, say 2 six shot revolvers max, the total killed might have been 12, and the cops would have showed up while he was reloading.

also, what do you know about him playing video games beyond speculation in the media?

also, he definitely didn't steal the guns, unless you mean from his mother, which makes it her fault for not securing them properly, because there was no law about locking them up or keeping the rifle at a shooting range. but he could have bought them easily by driving to a gun show or on the internet, because 40% of guns sold get no background check at all.

also, the latest news is that he flipped out because his mother was going to commit him to an institution, whoops, there is no law preventing mentally ill people or homes with issues like that from keeping unlocked weapons.

also, you seem to suggest that the law against having guns in schools is a problem without considering that most teachers don't want to carry guns, or have armed guards in their schools, or that foolish ideas like putting guns in school teach children the the world is scary place and someone wants to come and shoot you all the time.

also, i just don't like your use of "feeding frenzy", that's a bad metaphor or whatever its called

so, i reviewed it, but i won't sign it.

you should sign the one i posted though! i really think it makes more sense

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to farminator3000 (Reply #3)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 02:39 AM

5. I reviewed yours.

 

Nope.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to farminator3000 (Reply #3)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 10:46 AM

7. the 40 pecent number is questionable

because many of the sales at gun shows are by FFLs, requiring background checks. I'm sure CT state law would of all sales. Every internet sale I know of does.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to gejohnston (Reply #7)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 02:34 PM

8. 40% is probably a little low

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/jul/25/michael-bloomberg/mayor-michael-bloomberg-says-40-percent-guns-are-s/

Here, we wanted to fact-check Bloomberg’s statement that "you can sell guns without a background check at a gun show, forty percent of guns are sold that way, same thing on the Internet." Bloomberg’s phrasing is a little awkward, but his staff told us he meant that 40 percent of guns are sold without a background check, either at gun shows or on the Internet.

His focus on background checks actually has little bearing on the deaths in Aurora, Colo. Accused shooter James Holmes obtained all his firearms through licensed dealers and passed muster with all of them. But 40 percent of gun sales taking place without a background check seemed pretty big, and we wanted to see if it’s accurate.

PolitiFact has looked at gun control laws before. Earlier this year, Sen. Frank Lautenberg, D-N.Y., said that people convicted of domestic violence could still legally buy a gun. We rated that True.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to farminator3000 (Reply #8)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 03:01 PM

9. strange, that he authored an passed an amendment to

the Gun Control Act that makes purchase or possession of those convicted of domestic violence a federal felony
The act bans shipment, transport, ownership and use of guns or ammunition by individuals convicted of misdemeanor domestic violence, or who are under a restraining (protection) order for domestic abuse in all 50 states. The act also makes it unlawful to knowingly sell or give a firearm or ammunition to such persons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_Violence_Offender_Gun_Ban

While they may rate it as true, I rate Sen. Lautenburg as pants on fire. I give the overall question a maybe.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to gejohnston (Reply #9)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 03:38 PM

10. you have no idea what you are saying. have you heard of a LOOPHOLE?

he is saying that the law he passed works, but would work much better if you had to get a background check to buy a gun.

if you can't grasp that, too bad.

maybe you should check your own pants for smoke?

the point here isn't whether its 40% or 25% or 18.7%, the point is it should be ZERO%

http://www.politifact.com/new-jersey/statements/2012/may/03/frank-lautenberg/frank-lautenberg-claims-loophole-allows-individual/

from above link-

U.S. Sen. Frank Lautenberg speaks on the Senate floor on April 26.

U.S. Sen. Frank Lautenberg pushed through a law 15 years ago that prohibits people convicted of domestic violence from acquiring a gun. But the Democrat said there’s still avenues for those individuals to arm themselves.

Lautenberg spoke April 26 on the Senate floor in favor of reauthorizing legislation that supports efforts to help victims of domestic violence and sexual abuse. During his speech, he said even more needs to be done in this area.

"Let me be clear. It would be tragic to turn our backs on victims and the people who dedicate their lives to supporting them. While we can’t stop all malicious acts, we can do more to keep women and their families safe," Lautenberg said. "In 1996, I wrote the domestic violence gun ban, forbids anyone convicted of domestic violence from getting a gun. Since the law's inception, we have kept guns from falling into violent hands on over 200,000 occasions. For instance, in our gun laws we’re allowing domestic abusers to sidestep this ban on getting a gun. The loophole allows a convicted abuser to walk into a gun show and walk out with a gun, no questions asked."

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to farminator3000 (Reply #10)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 04:12 PM

12. his problem is with the commerce clause not the NRA

and every gun show I have been to, most of the dealers are FFLs. Some states require private sales be brokered by an FFL. Most do not. Many individuals do it voluntarily. Since those sales are not legal, it isn't a loophole in the normal sense of the word. That would mean black marketing would be a loophole.
True, he could go to a flea market if Florida, or he could get one from his drug connection in down the road. The first, the seller would have no way of knowing since federal law (one that Latinburg probably voted for) forbids the seller from checking, and the second wouldn't care.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to gejohnston (Reply #12)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 06:26 PM

13. the problem is the laws are too damn complicated and different in every state.and black marketing

black marketing is ILLEGAL activity

a loophole is when one law doesn't work because it isn't covered or reinforced by another one.

some states have closed the loophole, and some NEVER will, so the feds have to do it.

"But the trick is that many of the private sellers at gun shows are really unlicensed full time dealers, so they may be selling scores or hundreds of guns a year with no paperwork. Because of the volume, they are much more reliable sources of firearms for prohibited possessors."

As a result of the loophole, "it’s possible a convicted felon could go into a gun show and buy a firearm without ever being checked," said Chris Bombardiere, public information officer at the Newark Field Division of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

That isn’t possible everywhere, however, since some states have passed more restrictive gun laws. According to the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, 17 states, including New Jersey, "have either closed the gun show loophole or have taken action to close the loophole."

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to farminator3000 (Reply #13)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 06:33 PM

14. enforce current federal law

"But the trick is that many of the private sellers at gun shows are really unlicensed full time dealers, so they may be selling scores or hundreds of guns a year with no paperwork. Because of the volume, they are much more reliable sources of firearms for prohibited possessors."
then the ATF needs to bust and the US attorneys need to take them to trial. They are violating federal law. One at a flea market near me was busted for selling handloads and selling machine guns illegally. Granted on of the other gun guys was retired ATF, who busted him. Maybe it was because I asked the ATF about the "STEN the guy said was converted to semi auto" either way, they are violating a federal law that has been in place since the 1930s.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to gejohnston (Reply #14)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 06:53 PM

17. the loophole is IN THE FEDERAL LAW. they aren't breaking any law. they don't need a license

it isn't just gun shows- also flea markets and the internet. basically, the law puts seller on the 'honor system'

if you aren't filing papers who's to know if you are selling your private collection of 50 guns once a week?

no background check means you can buy as many guns as you want in 33 states- and then drive to a neighboring state that does have checks, and double your money on craigslist.

there aren't enough police to bust all these people, should we tell the criminals to back off a little while we build more jails?

get it?

yes, machine guns are illegal everywhere. what exactly is the difference between being able to shoot 30 bullets with one pull of the trigger in 10 seconds and shooting 30 with 30 pulls in 20 seconds?

FAQ-
What is the "gun show loophole"?

The Gun Control Act of 1968 requires anyone engaged in the business of selling guns to have a Federal Firearms License (FFL) and keep a record of their sales. However, this law does not cover all gun sellers. If a supplier is selling from his or her private collection and the principal objective is not to make a profit, the seller is not "engaged in the business" and is not required to have a license. Because they are unlicensed, these sellers are not required to keep records of sales and are not required to perform background checks on potential buyers, even those prohibited from purchasing guns by the Gun Control Act. The gun show loophole refers to the fact that prohibited purchasers can avoid required background checks by seeking out these unlicensed sellers at gun shows.

http://www.csgv.org/issues-and-campaigns/gun-show-loophole/gun-show-loophole-faq

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) estimates on average 2,500 – 5,000 gun shows are held annually. In general, between 25% to 50% of sellers are not licensed dealers.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to farminator3000 (Reply #17)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 09:00 PM

20. GSGV is wrong about one thing

private sellers are forbidden from doing background checks. Machine guns are tightly regulated not so much banned.
Violating the National Firearms Act is a big fucking deal. If someone were dumb enough to buy a STEN converted to semi auto, he could and would still be charged with having an unregistered machine gun.

Prohibited purchasers can, but the ATF says they rarely do. Gun shows are cop and ATF magnets. They hire cops as security.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to farminator3000 (Reply #17)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 10:01 PM

21. check again

"But the trick is that many of the private sellers at gun shows are really unlicensed full time dealers, so they may be selling scores or hundreds of guns a year with no paperwork. Because of the volume, they are much more reliable sources of firearms for prohibited possessors."

As a result of the loophole, "it’s possible a convicted felon could go into a gun show and buy a firearm without ever being checked," said Chris Bombardiere, public information officer at the Newark Field Division of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

what I bolded is not a loophole, it is a willful violation of federal law. You can call a onetime or occasional sale from a private collection a loophole if you want, but those guys are showing up with brand new still in the case, guns from someplace working as full time dealers while screwing the local mom and pop who play the ATF's rules. They are unlicensed dealers, which makes them criminals and should be busted.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to gejohnston (Reply #21)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 12:53 AM

23. but they can't be busted IF THERE IS NO LAW TO BUST THEM WITH

the law is too vague, there is no definition of "collection" or limit on quantity written in the actual law, so there is nothing to enforce.

ok, thousands of legal professionals call it a loophole, but you know different. good for you.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to farminator3000 (Reply #23)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 01:20 AM

24. the only people calling it a loophole is the Brady Campaign

the ATF isn't calling it a loophole as far as I can tell. There is a law to bust them. The ATF spokesman described people who were violating the Gun Control Act. These guys are going from state to state, selling as a business without an FFL. That is a blatant of the Gun Control Act on two different levels. Selling for profit, and interstate trade. I miss the loophole here. Maybe ATF doesn't have the people to follow these guys to prove their case, or just lazy. I don't know, it's pretty clear to me.
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html#gca-unlicensed-transfer
Now, if unlicensed people are following a circuit outside of their state, where they would have good reason to believe they would be selling to someone from a different state than them, that is an easy conviction. It's clear to me.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to farminator3000 (Reply #17)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 02:31 AM

27. Just one little correction:

Machineguns are legal. They are expensive and highly-regulated, but there is no federal law prohibiting private citizens from owning them. Many do. Some states allow them to be carried.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to gejohnston (Reply #9)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 07:03 PM

18. the guy said people convicted of domestic violence can still get a gun. it is obviously true

i haven't heard an argument otherwise yet?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to farminator3000 (Reply #18)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 10:02 PM

22. I could get a gun in London, UK

I could get a gun in NYC. That doesn't mean it is being done legally.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to gejohnston (Reply #7)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 03:42 PM

11. try not guessing and looking a few things up

it doesn't matter what CT's gun laws are when you can go on craigslist or hundreds of other sites and buy a gun.

perhaps there are a few internet sales you aren't aware of?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #1)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 06:50 PM

16. Reviewed, approved, signed. n/t

 

...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to farminator3000 (Original post)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 12:57 AM

2. 25 percent on top of the current

11 percent for environmental projects? Why not video games too?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to farminator3000 (Original post)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 02:29 AM

4. You might get better results posting this in General Discussion.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to uppityperson (Reply #4)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 03:08 AM

6. thanks for the advice!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to farminator3000 (Original post)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 06:48 PM

15. No, thanks. I'd support a small tax to fund mental health but no way on #2.

 

That is a deal breaker.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pop topcan (Reply #15)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 07:55 PM

19. you get by fine with such burdens on your car

cars are generally more expensive than guns so insurance,etc would be cheaper than cars, i'd say

you have some pressing engagements that require more than 6 bullets? my condolences!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to farminator3000 (Reply #19)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 02:23 AM

26. The firearm and the magazine are separate articles.

Example: The GLOCK 36 is a .45 ACP subcompact handgun which is shipped with a six-round magazine. It accepts the six-round magazine because the shape of the magazine and the feeding mechanism are compatible with the GLOCK .45 action. This same handgun can also accept a ten-round magazine, a thirteen-round magazine, or commercially-available twenty-seven-round magazines. Capacity is a property of the magazine alone, and has nothing to do with the design of the firearm.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Glaug-Eldare (Reply #26)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 10:24 AM

29. yeah, thanks, i know how guns work

so THE LARGER CLIPS SHOULD BE BANNED OR COST $500 plus insurance

end of story

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to farminator3000 (Reply #29)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 11:11 AM

30. For that price, people will just print their own.

 

You can buy a rapid prototype machine for $500 and print your own magazines.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to farminator3000 (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 02:01 AM

25. 53,000 vs 14

One petition has 53000 sigs and the other has 14.

LOL.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to my boy x dog (Reply #25)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 10:22 AM

28. wow! you can count numbers!

LOL doesn't count as a thought

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to farminator3000 (Reply #28)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 11:12 AM

31. 54,225 vs. 14 right now. n/t

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to farminator3000 (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 01:08 PM

32. No. n/t

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to farminator3000 (Original post)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 12:54 AM

33. still looking for sigs

thanks for looking

and they already did the commission thing, except for the 51 part.

thanks for signing, too.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread