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Fri Nov 9, 2012, 07:45 PM

Permanent protective order failed to protect, defensive gunfire succeeded.

http://newsok.com/eucha-man-shoots-neighbor-trying-to-kick-down-his-door/article/3727020

Happened in Oklahoma

JAY A Eucha man called 911 to report he had shot a neighbor who was trying to kick down his door, Delaware County Sheriff Harlan Moore said Friday.

Carl Hughes, 59, was found lying in the caller's yard about 5:15 p.m. Thursday with gunshot wounds to his left arm and two small punctures to the abdomen, Moore said.

The sheriff said Hughes was intoxicated and uncooperative and threatened law enforcement officers when they tried to provide medical treatment. Hughes was flown by helicopter to a Joplin hospital.

Moore said no arrests have been made and the shooting has been classified as self-defense.

SNIP

Court records show Edwards has a permanent protective order against Hughes. Hughes has been charged three times with violating the protective order and twice for planning or threatening to perform an act of violence, court records show.

In March, Hughes pleaded guilty to all the charges and received a one-year suspended sentence, records show. He was ordered to have no contact with Edwards.


Protective orders are just paper, they need something to give them weight. In this case a few bullets provided that weight.

22 replies, 1928 views

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Arrow 22 replies Author Time Post
Reply Permanent protective order failed to protect, defensive gunfire succeeded. (Original post)
GreenStormCloud Nov 2012 OP
jenw2 Nov 2012 #1
glacierbay Nov 2012 #2
oneshooter Nov 2012 #3
PavePusher Nov 2012 #4
jenw2 Nov 2012 #11
oneshooter Nov 2012 #12
gejohnston Nov 2012 #13
Decoy of Fenris Nov 2012 #14
PavePusher Nov 2012 #21
glacierbay Nov 2012 #22
rrneck Nov 2012 #5
GreenStormCloud Nov 2012 #6
ProgressiveProfessor Nov 2012 #7
krispos42 Nov 2012 #8
TPaine7 Nov 2012 #9
Remmah2 Nov 2012 #16
4th law of robotics Nov 2012 #18
Remmah2 Nov 2012 #15
4th law of robotics Nov 2012 #17
Servius Valerius Nov 2012 #10
4th law of robotics Nov 2012 #19
GreenStormCloud Nov 2012 #20

Response to GreenStormCloud (Original post)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 08:24 PM

1. If protective orders had more teeth

 

this wouldn't have happened. You're trying to solve the problem of violence with more violence.

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Response to jenw2 (Reply #1)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 08:43 PM

2. How?

 

A protective order is nothing more than a piece of paper, it won't protect you against someone who is determined to harm you.
I've seen first hand how well protective orders work, they don't. When I respond to a report of a DV incident, I tell the victim to obtain an order of protection while at the same time I tell the victim that it won't physically protect and that they may want to strongly consider obtaining a gun and a CC permit to at least have a fighting chance if the worse happens.

The one incident that still haunts me to this day is one where we were dispatched to a report of a man at the home of his estranged wife who had an order of protection against him, when we arrived, the wife and 5 yo daughter were stabbed to death and he had cut his own throat and was bleeding out. She didn't have any way to protect herself as she didn't have a gun.
With a gun, at least she and her daughter would have had a fighting chance.

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Response to jenw2 (Reply #1)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 08:48 PM

3. What changes in the laws, to give more teeth to a PO, would you support

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Response to jenw2 (Reply #1)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 10:22 PM

4. Please provide your suggestions. What "teeth" do you propose?

 

P.S. What do you suggest someone do when violence is being done to them? What will stop the attack other than violent resistance?

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Response to jenw2 (Reply #11)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 10:06 PM

12. ???

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Response to jenw2 (Reply #11)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 10:07 PM

13. you just said "had more teeth" which means what?

Make it a felony to violate the RO?

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Response to jenw2 (Reply #11)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 10:08 PM

14. You haven't proposed anything.

You made a statement, then offered no solution or implementation, nor even supported your claim of "Teeth" resulting in increased personal security in situations like this. Then, you called someone a liar when they called you on your lack of the above. Can you clarify your position, preferably with descriptions beyond "If X happened, Y wouldn't happen"?

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Response to Decoy of Fenris (Reply #14)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 12:37 PM

21. Someone has departed for a crunchy pizza. n/t

 

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Response to PavePusher (Reply #21)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 12:46 PM

22. Here's the results of the alert on his post

 






At Sat Nov 10, 2012, 11:34 PM you sent an alert on the following post:

So you're not smart enough to understand my proposal?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=86040

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

YOUR COMMENTS:

Accusing a DU'er of lying w/o any proof.

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Sat Nov 10, 2012, 11:48 PM, and voted 4-2 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT and said: An unwarranted personal attack in addition imo.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given

Thank you.


Every now and then we actually win one.

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Response to jenw2 (Reply #1)

Fri Nov 9, 2012, 10:23 PM

5. Well...



That's all I got.

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Response to jenw2 (Reply #1)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 07:25 AM

6. Sometimes violence IS the answer to violence.

To believe that violence is never the answer is to be a naive Pollyanna.

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Response to jenw2 (Reply #1)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 01:34 PM

7. What would you suggest and how would it help when a drunk lunatic is breaking down the door?

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Response to jenw2 (Reply #1)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 02:15 PM

8. Maybe if the protective order...

...had been wrapped around a large rock? Glued to a baseball bat? Etched into the blade of a machete?



The problem of individual offensive violence can often only be stopped by a greater application of individual defensive violence. I suppose capitulation and surrender and pleas for mercy can stop it to, but often times only when the attacker gets a muscle cramp.

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Response to jenw2 (Reply #1)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 05:35 PM

9. "You're trying to solve the problem of violence with more violence."

 

So is everyone who calls the police, except they're outsourcing the violence.

Police bring violence, or the threat of violence, to every confrontation. They use violence against violence daily.

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Response to TPaine7 (Reply #9)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 10:29 PM

16. My son calls that violence by proxy.

 

Only if they get there in time.

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Response to TPaine7 (Reply #9)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 10:56 AM

18. I expect the police to show up with some comfy chairs and a nice chamomile tea

 

that way we can all sit down in a relaxing environment and discuss what's wrong. Maybe we can convince the murderer/rapist/burglar to change his/her life and become a dental assistant or something.

What do you expect when you call the cops?

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Response to jenw2 (Reply #1)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 10:28 PM

15. Teeth can be used for violence.

 

nt

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Response to jenw2 (Reply #1)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 10:54 AM

17. Elaborate.

 

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Response to GreenStormCloud (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 05:36 PM

10. Yup.

I lean progressive on a lot of things... but concealed carry needs protection and even encouragement. The more trained, responsible individuals that are comfortable using minimum necessary force to resolve situations, the safer we all are.

That said, non-violence training can help practitioners defuse situations that might've evolved into violence, and those who make peace a practice can create some powerful narratives. Quakers are notably skilled at this.

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Response to Servius Valerius (Reply #10)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 10:57 AM

19. I'd say maximizing the equality of the individual

 

regardless of race, gender, status, etc *is* a progressive ideal.

Keeping the weak and defenseless weak and defenseless by limiting protection to the wealthy is not a progressive notion.

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Response to Servius Valerius (Reply #10)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 11:36 AM

20. How do you reason with thugs that are about to beat you up for kicks?

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