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Thu Oct 25, 2012, 06:53 AM

NRA expands its role from fight for gun rights to conservative causes

Coca-Cola and Kraft announced they are pulling their corporate memberships from a conservative group that was behind the spread of "stand your ground" laws like the one highlighted in Florida by the Trayvon Martin case.

The American Legislative Executive Council, also known as ALEC, is getting attention lately for its behind the scenes work pushing conservative legislation in the states.

The National Rifle Association worked with ALEC to spread similar laws that are on the books in at least 25 states.

Those laws grow directly out of the Second Amendment ethos the NRA has championed: "the ethos of individualism, of having a gun, of individuals taking the initiative," said Robert Spitzer, a political scientist at the State University of New York at Cortland and at Cornell University who has studied and written about the NRA for decades.

http://articles.cnn.com/2012-04-06/politics/politics_nra-alec_1_nra-officials-alec-gun-rights?

31 replies, 2326 views

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Arrow 31 replies Author Time Post
Reply NRA expands its role from fight for gun rights to conservative causes (Original post)
SecularMotion Oct 2012 OP
GreenStormCloud Oct 2012 #1
Db Owen97 Oct 2012 #2
Scuba Oct 2012 #3
glacierbay Oct 2012 #6
Scuba Oct 2012 #7
glacierbay Oct 2012 #8
Scuba Oct 2012 #9
glacierbay Oct 2012 #10
Scuba Oct 2012 #14
friendly_iconoclast Oct 2012 #18
Scuba Oct 2012 #20
friendly_iconoclast Oct 2012 #29
gejohnston Oct 2012 #11
Scuba Oct 2012 #15
gejohnston Oct 2012 #17
PavePusher Oct 2012 #13
Scuba Oct 2012 #16
friendly_iconoclast Oct 2012 #19
Scuba Oct 2012 #21
PavePusher Oct 2012 #22
Scuba Oct 2012 #23
PavePusher Oct 2012 #24
Scuba Oct 2012 #25
PavePusher Oct 2012 #26
Scuba Oct 2012 #27
friendly_iconoclast Oct 2012 #30
PavePusher Oct 2012 #31
gejohnston Oct 2012 #4
Eleanors38 Oct 2012 #5
ManiacJoe Oct 2012 #12
Logical Oct 2012 #28

Response to SecularMotion (Original post)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 07:15 AM

1. Lobbyists often work for more than one organization at a time.

Tara Mica is an NRA lobbyist, but that doesn't mean that she has lost any of her rights as a private person. She work on other legislation with other groups. It doesn't mean that the NRA has taken an official stance on such other issue.

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Response to SecularMotion (Original post)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 07:21 AM

2. Question....

 

Is this the part that bothers you so much?

"the ethos of individualism, of having a gun, of individuals taking the initiative"


Because all of that is part of the classical liberal mindset,and I can agree with it,much like I can agree with the founding fathers and support what their hard work has afforded this nation.

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Response to SecularMotion (Original post)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 08:32 AM

3. More accurate would be: NRA abandons best interests of gun owners to become hacks for the 1%.

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Response to Scuba (Reply #3)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 11:29 AM

6. And just what are the best interests of gun owners?

 

Do tell.

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Response to glacierbay (Reply #6)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 11:33 AM

7. Something other than an organization that spews lies for political gain ...

... especially when those who gain plan to destroy the environment that supports hunting, which is the reason many of us own guns.

Spreading fear that "Obama's gonna use the UN to take your guns" is not in the best interest of gun owners, yet that is the main message from the NRA. Nor is it true.

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Response to Scuba (Reply #7)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 12:00 PM

8. True

 

But Pres. Obama reiterating that he wants to re-authorize the AWB and make it permenent gave the NRA-ILA fodder to feed on.
Be that as it may, name another gun rights org. that has the clout to protect gun rights?

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Response to glacierbay (Reply #8)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 12:25 PM

9. I'm fine with re-authorizing the AWB. I believe in the long run SANE gun laws help gun owners.

The manic rantings of the NRA harm the image of gun owners nationally, and in turn harm our cause.

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Response to Scuba (Reply #9)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 12:37 PM

10. And just what did the AWB do to help reduce crime?

 

Nothing at all.
And what weapons did it ban? None, all the manufacturer's did was change a few things and then they were legal to sell.
Why ban something that has no impact on society?
And what good did it do to even mention it when he knows that another AWB will never get throught the congress?

And just what is an "Assault Weapon"? Anything used to assault someone is a weapon.

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Response to glacierbay (Reply #10)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 03:09 PM

14. My point is the NRA does gun owners more harm than good.

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Response to Scuba (Reply #14)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 03:18 PM

18. Gun owners would seem to disagree with you.

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Reply #18)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 04:15 PM

20. I'm a gun owner.

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Response to Scuba (Reply #20)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 08:21 PM

29. And also a hunter, which makes you a minority amongst gun owners.

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Response to Scuba (Reply #9)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 12:37 PM

11. I take it you didn't join the Ruger boycott?

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #11)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 03:10 PM

15. My point is the NRA does gun owners more harm than good.

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Response to Scuba (Reply #15)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 03:11 PM

17. many of the people on their board and one employee certainly do

Wayne and Ted come to mind.

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Response to Scuba (Reply #9)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 02:00 PM

13. Please define what it is you want to ban.

 

We'll wait....

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Response to PavePusher (Reply #13)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 03:10 PM

16. My point is the NRA does gun owners more harm than good.

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Response to Scuba (Reply #16)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 03:20 PM

19. Yeah, we got that the first four times. Again, what it is you want to ban...

...and why?

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Response to friendly_iconoclast (Reply #19)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 04:16 PM

21. This thread isn't about what to ban. It's about the NRA.

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Response to Scuba (Reply #21)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 04:26 PM

22. What you said:

 

I'm fine with re-authorizing the AWB. I believe in the long run SANE gun laws help gun owners.

The manic rantings of the NRA harm the image of gun owners nationally, and in turn harm our cause.

What are "SANE" gun laws and how do they differ from the NRA? What is good about an "assault weapons ban", and why is the NRA objection to it objectionable? What "manic rantings of the NRA" are you refering to?

Seriously, specifics please.

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Response to PavePusher (Reply #22)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 04:36 PM

23. I believe the NRA to be harmful to the long-term interest of gun owners.

If you want to debate potential firearm legislation you'll have to find someone else, but the antics of the NRA are preventing any legislation from being publicly debated with thoughtful consideration and that is harmful to us all, gun owners and not.

At some point the right wing in this country will lose control of government. When that happens, backlash from the NRA's extremism will result in firearm bans that go well beyond the common good. This will be, to a large degree, the fault of the NRA.

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Response to Scuba (Reply #23)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 04:41 PM

24. You still won't provide specifics, eh?

 

What legislation is "sane" and needs to be debated with "thoughtful consideration" that is being blocked solely by the NRA?

If you can't state what it is, then I can only assume you are merely trying to sell undefined fear. And that's not our job.

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Response to PavePusher (Reply #24)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 04:44 PM

25. I want a public debate, without people screaming that "Obama and the UN are gonna take yer guns"....

Nice try with the "undefined fear" dismissal, but it's a fail.

Now, why don't you try to justify the lack of calm, rationale public debate on the topic???

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Response to Scuba (Reply #25)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 07:01 PM

26. O.K., seriously, what do you think this forum is for?

 

We pretty much beg for ideas that would be A. Constitutional, and B. Would actually work without fucking over the non-criminal public. If you have any, here and now is how to start the conversation. If you have ideas that fit the above criteria, bring them on.

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Response to PavePusher (Reply #26)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 07:24 PM

27. You and I aren't the public I had in mind.

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Response to Scuba (Reply #27)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 08:28 PM

30. Spare us the "I have a secret plan to end the war" shtick and tell us what you propose, please.

Otherwise, go hat in hand to Michael Bloomberg and tell him that you'd like to take the NRA down a notch while providing an alternative for gun owners.
See if he forks over some cash. I rather believe he won't...

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Response to Scuba (Reply #27)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 08:46 PM

31. Well, then all I can do is wish you the best of luck, you're going to need it.

 

The people here are the ones who will be the closest to your position. If you can't even talk to us, I can not forecast effective results elsewhere. Promotion of gun control has spent far to much political capitol and created far too much vitriol (not quite a 50/50 split, but within shouting distance) with no tangible results other than frustration on behalf of those who would otherwise be your allies.

YMMV.

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Response to SecularMotion (Original post)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 10:47 AM

4. in the true sense of the word, SYG isn't conservative

conservative means maintain the status quo, or stuck in the past. Since "duty to retreat" outside the home dates back to English common law, and SYG started to appear in US common law during the Progressive Era. AFAIK, Illinois was the first state to pass a SYG law in 1961.

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Response to SecularMotion (Original post)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 10:52 AM

5. Gun controllers made the modern NRA. nt

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Response to SecularMotion (Original post)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 01:40 PM

12. The article is six months old.

Due to its age and incorrect data, it no longer makes any sense.

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Response to SecularMotion (Original post)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 07:54 PM

28. The NRA has always been a right wing group. The lies about Obama prove it.

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