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Mon Apr 9, 2012, 11:17 AM

 

"Tories won't force gun owners to lock up ammo"

Apparently Canada is re-thinking their overbearing draconian gun laws. This is in addition to the national gun registry dieing a timely death.



http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Tories+force+owners+lock+ammo/6420650/story.html



The federal government will not go ahead with a proposed rule requiring ammunition to be kept locked up, Public Safety Minister Vic Toews said Thursday.

At present, guns must be locked, but not ammunition. The proposed regulations - to do with storage of explosives - would have required all gun owners to install a locking box or safe in their homes.

20 replies, 2887 views

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Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
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Arrow 20 replies Author Time Post
Reply "Tories won't force gun owners to lock up ammo" (Original post)
Remmah2 Apr 2012 OP
pipoman Apr 2012 #1
Remmah2 Apr 2012 #2
iverglas Apr 2012 #13
Remmah2 Apr 2012 #16
iverglas Apr 2012 #18
Remmah2 Apr 2012 #19
PDJane Apr 2012 #3
DonP Apr 2012 #4
Remmah2 Apr 2012 #6
AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #7
Glassunion Apr 2012 #5
Remmah2 Apr 2012 #9
gejohnston Apr 2012 #10
BiggJawn Apr 2012 #11
Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #17
AtheistCrusader Apr 2012 #8
iverglas Apr 2012 #12
Ashgrey77 Apr 2012 #14
iverglas Apr 2012 #15
Doctor_J Apr 2012 #20

Response to Remmah2 (Original post)

Mon Apr 9, 2012, 11:20 AM

1. I predict somewhat more liberal gun and

self defense laws coming to our neighbors to the north, backed by public support..

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Response to pipoman (Reply #1)

Mon Apr 9, 2012, 11:27 AM

2. Canada has interesting demographics.

 

They're very urban or very rural. I've camped in the Algonquin and not seen a person or plane for days. I've urban hiked in Toronto & Montreal and didn't see starlight for days.

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Response to Remmah2 (Reply #2)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 03:34 AM

13. the demographics of Canada are virtually identical to those of the US

 

Look it up.

A majority of Canadians live in medium-sized to large cities.

The urban-suburban/rural breakdown according to a wiki article is 84/16 in the US. The urban/rural breakdown is about 81/19 in Canada:

http://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2011/as-sa/98-310-x/98-310-x2011003_2-eng.cfm
The proportion of people living in rural areas in Canada (18.9%) is among the lowest of the G8 countries,1 with only the United Kingdom having a notably smaller proportion (Figure 2). More than 2 persons in 10 live in a rural area in France, and more than 3 in 10 in Japan.

The vast majority of Canada's land mass is uninhabitable and uninhabited. Algonquin Park may feel remote, but it is actually little more than 100 miles from both Ottawa and Toronto, and looks and feels the way it does precisely because it is a preserved wilderness park.

Rural voters tend to vote right-wing (including in my own party: they are the reason we did not elect a gay MP as party leader several years ago), and they are joined these days by the dull, complacent hordes in places like the bedroom communities surrounding Toronto.

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Response to iverglas (Reply #13)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 09:00 AM

16. The Algonquin is a very successful experiment in eco-recovery.

 


The project has been well managed by the Canadian government.

I've seen pictures of the total deforestation that took place. The US logging and mining industries should learn a lesson.

Our guide was a naturalist/historian who has been paddling up there for over 20 years. It was nice being three layers of lakes in, no motor boats, no other campers/paddlers for 7 days, no cell phone signals. Some of the kids went through electronic withdrawl but they survived.

Plenty of loons, but our side trip through Toronto is a different story.

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Response to Remmah2 (Reply #16)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 10:34 AM

18. snork snork

 

The loons actually reside north of TO along the 404 and up there. In fact, they elected an MP named ... wait for it ... Peter Van Loon. Oh, all right, his name is really Peter Van Loan. But (a) I'm betting that's an anglicization of the Dutch name it sounds like, Van Loon (but eh? it seems he's of Estonian descent), and (b) he is a loon.

I have lived w/in that 100 mile radius of Algonquin Park for many years, and never been there. My sister and family canoe and camp there from time to time. They see bears. I can live w/out seeing bears. But I should go visit someday. We shall see.

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Response to iverglas (Reply #18)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 10:44 AM

19. The majority of the bears in the Algonquin Park are black bears.

 

They're like 100 kilo racoons. More interested in your food and garbage than you. We used bear bags and hung them about 100 meters from our tents. Zero bear problems.

We'd find moose poop on the trails between the tents in the morning and not hear a thing at night. We must of been tired.

The park is really set up to enjoy weather you're a day traveler or a week long deep woodsman.

The French-Canadian ladies did like to skinny dip. Oh the education the 14 and 15 year old lads got!

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Response to Remmah2 (Original post)

Mon Apr 9, 2012, 11:44 AM

3. a lot of us don't want more liberal gun laws, thank you.

As the gun laws become more liberal, we will have more crime, more shootings, and more death; an outcome we don't want.

Shot guns have always been legal. Hand guns have not, and I would prefer to keep it that way. Interestingly enough, we can't actually prevent guns from coming across the border from the US. The solution has been to make ammunition for those guns hard to get and very expensive. The last time I looked, ammunition was going for as much as $10 or $12 per round.

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Response to PDJane (Reply #3)

Mon Apr 9, 2012, 11:50 AM

4. Are you inherently more violent that the US?

We've had record firearm sales for several years and a broad expansion of more liberalized gun laws (e.g. 49 state concealed carry, opening national parks to carry etc. ) and our violent crime rate is at a 40 year low and dropping.

Are you that convinced that Canadians are that much more violent?

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Response to DonP (Reply #4)

Mon Apr 9, 2012, 12:05 PM

6. yup

 

I went to a boxing match and a hockey game broke out.



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Response to DonP (Reply #4)

Mon Apr 9, 2012, 12:05 PM

7. They are less violent in every category.

Including fists and feet.

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Response to PDJane (Reply #3)

Mon Apr 9, 2012, 11:53 AM

5. That's the price per box I'm guessing.

A box of handgun ammunition (9mm) in Canada goes for about $14.99 CAD or $15.00 USD using today's exchange.

That is at Cabela's. I hear that Canadian Tire occasionally has really good deals.

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Response to Glassunion (Reply #5)

Mon Apr 9, 2012, 12:08 PM

9. If you can smuggle guns, why not ammo?

 

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Response to PDJane (Reply #3)

Mon Apr 9, 2012, 12:15 PM

10. I don't agree

Vermont has the most liberal gun laws in the US, and has the lowest crime rate. El Paso, Texas' murder rate is half of Vancouver's and one fifth of Thunder Bay's. There is no evidence that gun laws will make a difference one way or the other. Besides, gun laws won't affect 2/3s of your murders, because they are not with guns.

The US has and strict laws on machine guns since 1934, about the same as your handgun registry. Canadian machine gun restrictions were laxer until 1977. I have never read about machine gun crimes up there.

The last time I looked, ammunition was going for as much as $10 or $12 per round.
On the black market? Or Canadian gun stores?

We can't keep drugs from coming from Mexico. How many Canadian crime guns originate in the US? Is there RCMP trace data to verify this?
Gun control groups in the US like to claim that most of the crime guns found in New York and DC come from Virginia, but the ATF trace data does not show that.

The plurality of DC's guns in 2010 are from Maryland.
New York's were from, well, New York.
http://www.atf.gov/statistics/trace-data/2010-trace-data.html

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Response to PDJane (Reply #3)

Mon Apr 9, 2012, 09:45 PM

11. Naw, that's cigarettes going for 10-12 bucks a round.

Ran out of smokes during a visit to Windsor 20 years ago. YIKES! No wonder you could buy those 4-ciggy packs they used to hand out as free samples here...

I'm sure it hasn't gotten any cheaper.

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Response to PDJane (Reply #3)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 09:07 AM

17. That is unlikely to happen.

 

As the gun laws become more liberal, we will have more crime, more shootings, and more death; an outcome we don't want.

The United States has had ever-more-liberal firearm laws for the last 20+ years, and yet violent crime has been on the decline over the same time period.

Shot guns have always been legal. Hand guns have not, and I would prefer to keep it that way. Interestingly enough, we can't actually prevent guns from coming across the border from the US. The solution has been to make ammunition for those guns hard to get and very expensive. The last time I looked, ammunition was going for as much as $10 or $12 per round.

I'm surprised people don't reload, or is that illegal there, too? I reload for about $.03 a round.

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Response to Remmah2 (Original post)

Mon Apr 9, 2012, 12:06 PM

8. Be interesting to see real world data on what the crime rates do.

I am prepared to see uncomfortable truths come out, that's fine, as long as it is accurate.

Somehow I suspect the outcome will be acceptable after all.

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Response to Remmah2 (Original post)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 03:23 AM

12. CANADA is not rethinking a fucking thing

 

and it would behoove you not to insult Canadians this way.

When you were labouring under Bush II, we up here didn't equate him and his doings with the US and USAmericans.

The Harper government is in power because slightly under 40% of the people who cast ballots in a low turnout election voted for the Conservative Party, and the first-past-the-post system in our multi-party democracy gave that party a majority of seats in the House of Commons.

Harper and his party are now buckling down to the job they have been longing to do for a decade: remaking Canada in their image, nasty and mean and ugly as it is.

Nowhere else at DU, or in any other moderately left/progressive location in the world, would one find applause for anything this shitty government is doing.

But this is the Guns forum, where all things right-wing are routinely applauded.


I don't even know how you interpret what you posted as "rethinking" anything.

The proposals were part of a pack-age of regulations aimed at updating a set of rules from 1920 that regulate sale and storage of explosives. The parts that upset gun owners included restrictions on ammunition of .50-cal-ibre or larger and on black powder used in antique weapons.

The proposal was for an additional requirement relating to storage, which the Conservatives (who are not "Tories", btw) have rejected.


We are in the middle of one of the finest, juiciest, ugliest election scandals in the western world in decades. The Conservatives have been caught red-handed committing election fraud. Why don't you investigate that a little?

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Response to iverglas (Reply #12)


Response to Ashgrey77 (Reply #14)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 06:00 AM

15. hahahaha

 

5 posts, and already you've found me. Lucky you!

I look forward to your voluminous oeuvre here at DU.

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Response to Remmah2 (Original post)

Tue Apr 10, 2012, 12:20 PM

20. They're also trying to privatise health care

Going for 3rd-world status like the US

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