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Sat Nov 3, 2012, 05:28 PM

When an Israeli soccer game looks like a Klan rally (Larry Derfner)

It’s hard to say which is worse – the behavior of racist fans, or the tacit approval they get from Israeli sports officials and media.

I like to think that if you discount for the century of fighting with Arabs, Israel is still plenty racist, but no more than most societies. I remind myself that even the absolute worst display of Israeli racism – the chanting of monkey noises (“hoo-hoo-hoo!! hoo-hoo-hoo!!”) and the throwing of bananas at black players during soccer games – has been going on in Europe, too, and probably elsewhere. But what happened this week to Nigerian-born Israeli player Toto Tamuz shows a level of callousness to blatant, raw racism that I wonder how many countries could match.

On Monday, Tamuz scored the go-ahead goal against Beitar Jerusalem in the capital’s Teddy Stadium, and right afterward looked out at the crowd and put his index finger up to his lips to shush them. Immediately the referee penalized him for unsportsmanlike conduct: “provoking the crowd.” Since this was Tamuz’s second penalty of the game, he was automatically disqualified. His team, Hapoel Tel Aviv, went on to lose, 3-2.

It was only after a day of sports reporters and commentators praising the Beitar crowd for firing up the atmosphere with their mad-dog spirit that it became known why Tamuz tried to shush the crowd in the first place. He told Yediot Aharonot:

I’ve never seen such racism in my whole life. … and I were the last ones on the field. When we came out of the tunnel they started throwing bananas at us. We heard curses and racist chants. … I heard their regular song, ‘Give Toto a banana,’ and a lot of other things I’m embarrassed to mention.


http://972mag.com/when-an-israeli-soccer-game-looks-like-a-klan-rally/58818/

42 replies, 4218 views

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Reply When an Israeli soccer game looks like a Klan rally (Larry Derfner) (Original post)
Violet_Crumble Nov 2012 OP
oberliner Nov 2012 #1
shira Nov 2012 #10
Alamuti Lotus Nov 2012 #12
oberliner Nov 2012 #15
LeftishBrit Nov 2012 #2
Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2012 #6
Violet_Crumble Nov 2012 #8
Mosby Jan 2013 #34
Violet_Crumble Jan 2013 #35
DonCoquixote Nov 2012 #3
oberliner Nov 2012 #4
Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2012 #5
oberliner Nov 2012 #7
Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2012 #9
oberliner Nov 2012 #16
Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2012 #19
DonCoquixote Nov 2012 #11
LeftishBrit Nov 2012 #13
oberliner Nov 2012 #17
LeftishBrit Nov 2012 #14
DonCoquixote Nov 2012 #18
azurnoir Nov 2012 #20
Mosby Jan 2013 #31
Dick Dastardly Jan 2013 #40
Scurrilous Jan 2013 #21
oberliner Jan 2013 #22
LeftishBrit Jan 2013 #23
Violet_Crumble Jan 2013 #24
oberliner Jan 2013 #25
LeftishBrit Jan 2013 #30
Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #26
madrchsod Jan 2013 #27
Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #28
R. Daneel Olivaw Jan 2013 #32
Violet_Crumble Jan 2013 #33
shaayecanaan Jan 2013 #42
R. Daneel Olivaw Jan 2013 #29
Mosby Jan 2013 #36
Violet_Crumble Jan 2013 #39
oberliner Jan 2013 #37
R. Daneel Olivaw Jan 2013 #38
shaayecanaan Jan 2013 #41

Response to Violet_Crumble (Original post)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 05:43 PM

1. Larry Derfner: Steadfast Defender of Greta Berlin

To the bitter end, without apology.

It's amazing they still publish his articles after that debacle.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #1)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 09:12 PM

10. Steadfast defender of Greta Berlin accusing Jews of KKK behavior....

He's far more disgusting than those he's describing.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #1)

Sun Nov 4, 2012, 01:15 AM

12. it's amazing how little time that took to divert attention away from the original subject..

 

couldn't symbolically sweep this thing under the carpet fast enough..

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Response to Alamuti Lotus (Reply #12)

Sun Nov 4, 2012, 06:11 AM

15. It would be as if someone posted an Op Ed by Daniel Pipes

Most here would (rightly) not even give the post the time of day because of the nature of the author's previous writings.

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Original post)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 06:06 PM

2. Disgusting behaviour...

mind you, football fans can be far-right nuts in a number of countries. There are distinct links between football hooliganism and the English Defence League, for example. The hooliganism and racism often spoil the game for genuine fans.

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Response to LeftishBrit (Reply #2)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 08:13 PM

6. Then again, it gives some people the opportunity to kick THEIR asses.

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Response to LeftishBrit (Reply #2)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 08:17 PM

8. I agree, though it doesn't look like many Israeli clubs are doing much about it...

I know in the recent case of the Chelsea fan making the racist gestures aimed at a player during a game, the police were brought into it, and it looks like the clubs try (in some cases pretty insipid attemps) to put a stop to that sort of fan behaviour. And those clubs that don't are pretty much shamed in the media, at least they are in the football codes here.

It looks like in this case the club itself as well as the official sporting body are turning a blind eye to the racism, as they've always done. If the clubs all acted like Hapoel Tel Aviv, the example given in the last paragraph of the article, things would be far improved...

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #8)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 07:20 PM

34. European Soccer is deeply racist

Finally: Soccer Team Walks Off Field in Response to Racist Chants

Racism in European soccer is a relatively common, but players actually responding to those chants isn’t normal at all. For the most part, players ignore the racist European fans who are trying to rankle them and continue on with the match.

http://www.techyville.com/2013/01/social-media/finally-soccer-team-walks-off-field-in-response-to-racist-chants/


Though racism is a problem in many professional sports, soccer seems especially prone to it. During the summer’s Euro tournament, for example, fans threw bananas and yelled monkey noises during a game between Italy and Croatia. Three months ago, an English black player heard loud monkey chants at a youth tournament in Serbia, the New York Times reported. Last month, Russian soccer fans created a petition calling for non-white and gay players to be excluded from a major team.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/01/04/milan-soccer-racism-chants-fifpro/


LONDON (AP) — FIFA President Sepp Blatter has advised players encountering racial abuse during matches against walking off the pitch like AC Milan did last week.

Ghana midfielder Kevin-Prince Boateng led his Milan teammates off Thursday during a friendly against lower division club Pro Patria following racist chanting by fans.

The match was abandoned, but Blatter does not believe walking off is the best way to combat racism.

"Walk off? No. I don't think that is the solution," Blatter was quoted as saying on the website of Abu Dhabi's The National newspaper on Sunday.

"I don't think you can run away, because eventually you can run away if you lose a match," he added. "This issue is a very touchy subject, but I repeat there is zero tolerance of racism in the stadium."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/soccer/2013/01/06/sepp-blatter-soccer-players-facing-racism-shouldnt-walk-off-ac-milan/1811985/


Racism Is a "touchy subject" according to the FIFA President --- HOLY FUCK!

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Response to Mosby (Reply #34)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 09:57 PM

35. Walking off the pitch and clubs banning fans is something that should be happening in Israel, imo...

I don't know why soccer attracts the racists (here it seems to have a similar affect, though racists also like cricket), but the responsibility for cleaning up the game has to be with the clubs themselves. Instructing players to walk off and banning racist fans will be one thing that will have immediate results. All that might happen is the racists will take up a new sport and we'll be here in a year talking about the racism in croquet, but things shouldn't be left the way they are...

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Original post)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 06:26 PM

3. The sad fruit of Zionism

Gold Meir used to say that the reason she was angry at Arabs was that they "forced their children to become killers." Well Golda, when you found your nation on greed, racism, and fear, do not be surprised when your children act like the White Goyim that used to beat you up and call YOU racial names. You founded a homeland,only to have it enable and embody the worst aspects of Europe and America.

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Response to DonCoquixote (Reply #3)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 06:59 PM

4. This is exactly the response the author was hoping for

Last edited Sat Nov 3, 2012, 07:42 PM - Edit history (1)

Mission Accomplished.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #4)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 07:53 PM

5. Seems anyone who talks about anything to do with Israel is considered to be treading on thin ice..

....even posting THAT qualifies.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #5)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 08:14 PM

7. No thin ice

I just think it's the conclusion that the author of the article was looking for.

Zionism leads to the sort of thing he witnessed in the article.

If that wasn't his point, what was?

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Response to oberliner (Reply #7)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 08:21 PM

9. Maybe to have thoughtful Israelis condemn this behavior. It undercuts their message...

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #9)

Sun Nov 4, 2012, 06:18 AM

16. They regularly do

If the message was to Israelis, why not publish it in Hebrew?

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Response to oberliner (Reply #16)

Sun Nov 4, 2012, 11:20 AM

19. Do you have any idea how many are from the US?

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Response to oberliner (Reply #4)

Sat Nov 3, 2012, 11:42 PM

11. Truth Hurts

Which is why no one can refute it.

The truth is, most of the pre Shoah ashkenazi would be freaked out by the Zionists, as they morphed into the Miltary worshipping people the cabarets used to make fun of.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #4)

Sun Nov 4, 2012, 03:50 AM

13. I disagree with both of you on this.

The previous response was totally over-the-top, but it is not implied by the OP.

Israel is undergoing serious social and political problems at the moment, which are seriously harming significant sections of the population, and threaten the country's democracy. When a country's mainstream conservative party forms a formal alliance with the far right, then one has something to worry about. Indeed, when a country's mainstream conservative party forms an informal alliance with the far right, then one has something to worry about - e.g. Republicans and Tea Party! When a country facing economic disaster elects a significant number of far-rightists to Parliament, and starts to scapegoat minorities, then one has something to worry about. When a country's media and elements of its government start to demonize sick and disabled people as 'benefit scroungers' and hate-crime against disabled people increases as a result, then one has something to worry about. That last one is close to home!

I do not regard Israel, the USA, Greece or the UK as intrinsically evil but I think they all have problems that it's only right and indeed necessary to point out.

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Response to LeftishBrit (Reply #13)

Sun Nov 4, 2012, 06:20 AM

17. Why do you think Derfner wrote and 972mag published the piece?

I am genuinely curious to know what you think his motivations were.

Like, for instance, when an article is published in English presenting Palestinians in a negative light by shining a light on some of the more vile nastiness, there is usually a reason behind it.

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Response to DonCoquixote (Reply #3)

Sun Nov 4, 2012, 03:53 AM

14. 'Found your nation on greed, racism and fear'?

More than any other nation?

And where does GREED come into it?

Israel may indeed 'embody the worst aspects of Europe and America' (though not all of them; they do not seek war and conquest far from their own borders, for example) but then so, by definition, do Europe and America! Do you consider all these countries to be 'founded on greed, racism and fear'? Exhibit these qualities, yes - but 'founded on them'?

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Response to LeftishBrit (Reply #14)

Sun Nov 4, 2012, 10:48 AM

18. your answer

Actually, yes, all nations are founded on racism, greed and fear.
Yes
yes,
and Yes

If it were not for these things, no nation on Earth would ever have been formed, and it is impossible to found nations without them.

What makes Israel stand out is that, being a young nation, it has not yet been forced to actually stem the racism, fear and greed that founded it. Even when they do things that clearly make the world sick, they hide behind the gates of Auschwitz as a means of being above approach. Never mind that those same Ashkenazi that lived in Europe would be sickened by what their children have become. They have never been forced to look at themselves and see what their path is doing to them. Of course, it also helps they have their twin brother, Palestine, in their midst, their fellow lovers of the bloodthirsty, genocidal God of Abraham, who also know how to use past suffering and religious bull-oney to prevent any sort of introspection and responsibility taking.

To be fair, national virtue has nothing to do with actual virtue; countries only kick their addictions when they reach a crisis. They only break their habits when they reach the bottom, when they realize that they need to want survivial more than the addiction, and undergo the detox, rehab, and all the other purgatories. Europe is in the good state that it is in not because of any virtue, but because in the Second World War, it finally realized the old methods would not work anymore.

Not that there is no heroism in that, many addicts, and many nations, simply cannot quit their habits; the graveyard is full of them. America has had several close calls, indeed, this very tuesday is one of them, a test we may very well fail if Mitt wins. The Great Depression should have taught America that the right should be distrusted, but our addictions were worked into the design, by the Founding fathers, people who had virtues, but could not lay off the cheap labor addiction.

In short, until the world forces Israel,and yes, Palestine too to behave, there will be no peace. Both sides of Jerusalem are drunk on killing and religious powertrips, and no matter what flag flies over Jerusalem, no matter what state is drawn on the maps, until they reach their rock bottom, they will have no reason to stop killing.

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Original post)

Sun Nov 4, 2012, 02:31 PM

20. what is it about soccer?

I'm trying to think of an American sport that seems to so consistently draws this kind of stuff, but honestly I can not

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #20)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:09 PM

31. I agree

European soccer fans are racists. I'm not sure why but the racism in this sport seems to be spreading to latin america and israel.

In the US the major sports have had the exact opposite effect with racial differences.

Soccer seems to bring out the worst in Europeans. Go figure.

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #20)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 04:39 PM

40. I agree. Except for the occasional drunken knucklehead fan getting into a fight over their team in

Pro Football there is very little violence of any sort in US sports and certainly none based in racism. Racist crap like we see in soccer games in many countries of the world would not be tolerated here.

We also get on a rare occasion idiotic parents fighting each other, the refs or the coaches over their kids games at schools.

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Original post)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:42 PM

21. Muslim Players Taste Israel Football Racism

<snip>



"Plans to sign two Muslim players into an Israeli football team have invoked racism against non-Jews on the Israeli pitch.

"I was shocked by the racism displayed in the Beitar Jerusalem stands yesterday against having Muslim or Arab players on the team," Deputy Prime Minister Moshe Yaalon said on Sunday, January 27, Reuters reported.

"We cannot ignore these displays of racism which not long ago were directed - and are still being directed - towards the Jewish people," he wrote on Twitter.

Beitar Jerusalem club is planning to sign two Chechen players; Zaur Sadayev and Dzhabrail Kadiyev, from Russian premier league club Terek Grozny.

But the plans have angered the team’s fans, who chanted racist slogans against Muslim players.

"Beitar will always remain pure," read a banner held by supporters at a Premier League game on Saturday."

http://www.onislam.net/english/news/middle-east/461081-muslim-players-taste-israel-football-racism.html

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Response to Scurrilous (Reply #21)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 11:45 PM

22. Almost like what goes on in Italy

Italian football matches 'should be abandoned' if fans chant antisemitic abuse

http://www.thejc.com/news/world-news/97731/italian-football-matches-should-be-abandoned-if-fans-chant-antisemitic-abuse

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 03:11 AM

23. Horrible. As to 'how many other countries could match' such racism...

sadly, with regard to football, the UK has a long record of viciously racist fans. Not that all or most fans are racist thugs; but there are certainly links between football hooliganism and far-right political groups - e.g. the EDL certainly has a strong football-hooligan base.

ETA: I see that I've said much of this already - this thread sseems to have been revived from long ago!

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Response to LeftishBrit (Reply #23)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 04:00 AM

24. LOL. I did have a deja-vu moment there!

And like back then I agree and think that clubs like these ones shouldn't be turning a blind eye, but leading the way in stamping out racism at matches.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/chelsea/9359169/Racist-Chelsea-fan-given-5-year-match-ban-after-filming-himself-yelling-abuse.html

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #24)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 07:16 AM

25. The Telegraph?

Isn't that a bigoted RW source?

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Response to oberliner (Reply #25)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:01 PM

30. For opinion pieces definitely; the news items are usually comparatively accurate

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 07:57 AM

26. Is the comparison of Israelis to Nazis, neo-Nazis, the Klan typical for this forum?

I've seen it a few times this week. (I am not asking for an opinion if the comparisons are deserved or not, I'm just asking if it's typical)

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #26)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 08:22 AM

27. many years ago i was suspended for 3 days for saying the same thing

i guess the attitudes have changed

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Response to madrchsod (Reply #27)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 10:07 AM

28. It's curious to observe, for sure.

In addition, arguments that open by comparing Israel to Nazis and skinheads are doomed from the beginning. It's cheap, emotional, and not worthy of reading or considering.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #26)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:18 PM

32. Some are also comparing the UN to the KKKlan of all things.


No, it is not typical IMHO, but I don't read every post. Lots of people compare the Nazis to people they see as evil, but there are very few groups in modern history that can actually wear the SS crown.

Israelis should be compared to practice what they preach: as all of us should.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #26)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 05:47 PM

33. No, but comparing racist Israeli soccer fans to Klansmen is acceptable, imo...

Because that's what's being talked about in the article, racist Israeli soccer fans, not Israelis themselves.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #26)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 12:03 AM

42. No

A quick Google search seems to indicate that most of the time "Nazi" comes up in this forum it is either:-

(a) people making Nazi allusions about the Arabs or Palestinians, or;

(b) those same people complaining that making Nazi allusions about Israel is anti-semitic.

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.democraticunderground.com+nazi+israel%2Fpalestine&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a

Comparing Israel to the Nazis seems to be a phenomenon more complained about than committed, at least in this forum.

Most Arab/Muslim leaders, from Nasser, to Arafat, to Sadat, to Ahmadinejad are routinely compared to Nazis, often by Israel or its advocates. My personal position is that if its verboten to compare Israel to the Nazis it should be equally so for Arabs.

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:58 AM

29. I'm glad that you posted this. I was recently told, by a moran no less,


that the UN in general and their Council on Human Rights is KKK material.

Sports has never brought out the best in people, but I have never seen racist cat calls during sporting events. It is just not called for, and those issuing such insults should be escorted out of the arena.

I'm wondering if the moran would see no problem throwing bananas or giving depo-prevera to blacks simply because they can get away with it.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #29)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 12:58 PM

36. What Duer are you referring to?

I bet you won't say.

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Response to Mosby (Reply #36)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 02:43 PM

39. I know who they're referring to, but suspect you'd alert on my post as a 'call-out' if I named them

Just read every thread on this first page that's about the UN and you'll spot it.

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #29)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 01:09 PM

37. You've never seen racist cat calls during sporting events?

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Response to oberliner (Reply #37)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 01:38 PM

38. I've been to a few soccer matches and I would have to say no.


I didn't say that it doesn't exist, but I have never witnessed it first hand.

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 08:46 PM

41. Beitar's fans were the ones beating up Arabs

in the shopping mall a few months ago:-

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/hundreds-of-beitar-jerusalem-fans-beat-up-arab-workers-in-mall-no-arrests-1.420270

Their main rivalry is with Hapoel Tel Aviv, the traditional left-wing team. Salim Tuama is one Hapoel's senior Arab players, and he does tend to cop it:-

What are you doing here, Salim?
What the hell is going on here?
From all around I hear Salim
Tuama's here.
But its Eretz Israel
Eretz Israel.
The land of the Jews
I hate you Salim Tuama
You camel-fucking Arab
Ah Yarab, ah God
Up with Beitar, I Hate Hapoel

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