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Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:19 PM

 

Christopher Dorner: police deny intentionally burning down cabin

Source: Telegraph (UK)

San Bernardino County Sheriff John McMahon said that his deputies shot pyrotechnic tear gas into the cabin and it erupted in flames.
He says the tactic was intended to drive Dorner out, but it was not their intention to set the cabin on fire.

A body believed to be Dorner was discovered in the ashes of the cabin, but McMahon said authorities have not positively identified the remains.

"I cannot absolutely, positively confirm it's him," Mr McMahon said. "The suspect that we were following ... matched his description.

His behavior based on our deputies' interaction with him inside the vacant cabin was consistent with Mr Dorner's activity prior to and we are not currently involved in a manhunt any longer."

Read more: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/9869372/Christopher-Dorner-police-deny-intentionally-burning-down-cabin.html

63 replies, 5577 views

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Arrow 63 replies Author Time Post
Reply Christopher Dorner: police deny intentionally burning down cabin (Original post)
Gentle-man Feb 2013 OP
heaven05 Feb 2013 #1
jannyk Feb 2013 #2
DrewFlorida Feb 2013 #3
Archae Feb 2013 #5
Gentle-man Feb 2013 #19
Archae Feb 2013 #20
frylock Feb 2013 #35
atreides1 Feb 2013 #45
SemperEadem Feb 2013 #46
DrewFlorida Feb 2013 #38
SemperEadem Feb 2013 #47
muriel_volestrangler Feb 2013 #6
frylock Feb 2013 #36
RBInMaine Feb 2013 #8
lob1 Feb 2013 #13
bl968 Feb 2013 #30
RBInMaine Feb 2013 #54
frylock Feb 2013 #56
frylock Feb 2013 #37
RBInMaine Feb 2013 #53
frylock Feb 2013 #55
SemperEadem Feb 2013 #48
lonestarnot Feb 2013 #4
DollarBillHines Feb 2013 #7
RBInMaine Feb 2013 #9
DollarBillHines Feb 2013 #14
RetroGamer1971 Feb 2013 #10
tinrobot Feb 2013 #11
Dr Hobbitstein Feb 2013 #17
jeff47 Feb 2013 #22
rightsideout Feb 2013 #32
frylock Feb 2013 #57
Iliyah Feb 2013 #12
heaven05 Feb 2013 #15
rocktivity Feb 2013 #16
cstanleytech Feb 2013 #23
rocktivity Feb 2013 #26
SemperEadem Feb 2013 #49
frylock Feb 2013 #59
Kalidurga Feb 2013 #18
underthematrix Feb 2013 #21
Kalidurga Feb 2013 #24
tinrobot Feb 2013 #29
magellan Feb 2013 #34
loveandlight Feb 2013 #50
frylock Feb 2013 #39
Fire Walk With Me Feb 2013 #43
Mojorabbit Feb 2013 #25
geek tragedy Feb 2013 #28
Mojorabbit Feb 2013 #40
geek tragedy Feb 2013 #41
Kalidurga Feb 2013 #31
rocktivity Feb 2013 #51
Kalidurga Feb 2013 #52
Evergreen Emerald Feb 2013 #58
Kalidurga Feb 2013 #61
Evergreen Emerald Feb 2013 #62
Kalidurga Feb 2013 #63
Ed Suspicious Feb 2013 #27
rightsideout Feb 2013 #33
JustABozoOnThisBus Feb 2013 #44
frylock Feb 2013 #60
blkmusclmachine Feb 2013 #42

Response to Gentle-man (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:27 PM

1. ?????

this is a lie. Period. Lies. Lies. Lies. Lies. Just lies. This is our police culture. Lies.

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Response to Gentle-man (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:27 PM

2. Must've been group wishful thinking then...

...'cause they were heard screaming it right before it happened. Hmmmm?

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Response to Gentle-man (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:31 PM

3. Total Bullshit, they had no intention of taking Dorner alive, they torched that house on purpose.

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Response to DrewFlorida (Reply #3)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:35 PM

5. Yup, just like Janet Reno had the Branch Davidian compound torched.

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Response to Archae (Reply #5)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:05 PM

19. Bad analogy. Waco authorities were not caught on tape...

 

discussing to do what they denied doing as the cops in the Dorner case were.

Equating those who believe Dorner was torched intentionally with those who believe Waco was a conspiracy will be a tactic used often in the near future by cop defenders.

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Response to Gentle-man (Reply #19)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:13 PM

20. I am a cop defender.

Who else can I call if someone beats me up? Robs me? Breaks into my place?

Believe or not, the "All cops are pigs" rabble-rousers to the contrary, not all cops ARE pigs.

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Response to Archae (Reply #20)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 11:56 PM

35. nope, but some are..

and the ones that remain silent, the ones that honor the code, they aren't any better.

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Response to frylock (Reply #35)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 08:17 AM

45. +100,000

Agreed.

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Response to frylock (Reply #35)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 09:01 AM

46. most are

if as you say, they remain silent.

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Response to Archae (Reply #20)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 12:03 AM

38. I've known many cops in my years, the majority of them are self serving power hungry alpha types.

I've never known one who would not break the law in some way or another, whether it was fixing tickets for friends and family or more insidious "good ole boy" behavior. There are many cops who do a lot of good, but that doesn't discount all of the times in which they take away people's civil rights, the very rights they are sworn to protect.

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Response to DrewFlorida (Reply #38)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 09:05 AM

47. just about every morning

on my way to work, there is a cop who has a FOP license plate on his car, who drives like a demon--tailgating other drivers, driving easily 30 mph over the speed limit, peeling off from stop lights, running through stop signs to get around other drivers. No cop is going to stop him, pull him over and give him a ticket--they're going to let him go. It won't stop until someone is hurt...

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Response to DrewFlorida (Reply #3)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:36 PM

6. Did anyone believe he was going to be taken alive by that point?

I thought this argument was over whether his death was more painful by fire than by bullet. He shot at any policeman he could. He wasn't going to surrender (unless you could get him to run out of ammo without hitting any more police, I suppose).

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #6)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 11:59 PM

36. there is some disagreement as to whether there was a firefight or not..

the police effectively enstated a media blackout in fear that dorner may be monitoring the situation, you know, in that isolated cabin in the woods.

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Response to DrewFlorida (Reply #3)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:37 PM

8. First, you were not there so can't say that. Second, he was a horrid murderer. So good riddance.

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Response to RBInMaine (Reply #8)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:47 PM

13. They have audio tape of the police talking about burning him out.

Then they did.

I agree, he was a horrible murderer.

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Response to lob1 (Reply #13)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:37 PM

30. Audio on Youtube

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Response to lob1 (Reply #13)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 08:43 PM

54. What did they use to "burn him out"? Have you investigated? Were you there? Did he surrender when

the cabin caught fire? If not, why not? He could have come out with his hands in the air. He didn't. The fact is, you don't know exactly what happened. Can we please have an investigation before all these assumptions.

Meantime, IMO, he was a horrid murderer and is now right where he belongs, regardless of how he got there. Justice done, even if more poetic rather than in a court.

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Response to RBInMaine (Reply #54)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 09:37 PM

56. were YOU there?

you know just as much as the rest of us, so quit fucking pretending that you're privy to some sort of inside information.

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Response to RBInMaine (Reply #8)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 12:02 AM

37. can we agree that he was a horrid murderer..

and still support due process, or is that no longer permitted?

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Response to frylock (Reply #37)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 08:36 PM

53. You were not there. They say it was not intended. If a fire started, he could have come out.

He didn't, so buh-bye. He could have received due process if he had surrendered. He didn't. So he got another form of justice. Couldn't have happened to a better criminal.

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Response to RBInMaine (Reply #53)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 09:35 PM

55. do you understand what a PYROTECHNIC tear gas grenade is?

these fucking idiots could've burned down a lot more than that cabin with their carelessness. but look who i'm arguing with. a true authoritarian if ever there was one.

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Response to RBInMaine (Reply #8)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 09:08 AM

48. video tape exists of their intent, so one doesn't have to be there

second, him being a horrid murderer is non sequitur to them lying about not knowing how the cabin caught fire and then telling the media to lie to their viewers.

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Response to Gentle-man (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:35 PM

4. Whoopsie. Snort

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Response to Gentle-man (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:37 PM

7. They should man up. Tell the world...

"You fuck with us, we fuck with you."

Period

What would you do if he had fucked your family?

Fuck that sorry bastard. He murdered, with malice afore-thought, innocent people.

I only wish that he had run out of ammo before they lit the joint up. As a matter of fact, if I would have been in charge I would have made sure he was out of ammo before I lit his ass up.

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Response to DollarBillHines (Reply #7)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:39 PM

9. If the place was on fire, he could have come out with his hands in the air. So buh-bye to him.

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Response to RBInMaine (Reply #9)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:47 PM

14. I wonder, if he had walked out, what would have happened.

But that was never going to happen and the law knew it.

Surrender was never an option.

Dorner knew how things work. He chose his path.

I believe the question should be how many more Dorners are out there - in law enforcements departments all over the country.

I live in a very wealthy community and I believe that most of our law-enforcement folks are the people who nobody spoke to in High School.

Scary, really.

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Response to Gentle-man (Original post)


Response to Gentle-man (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:40 PM

11. "Seven burners deployed and we have a fire."

That's a direct quote from the police scanner

Audio here :

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Response to tinrobot (Reply #11)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:57 PM

17. From what I understand...

Burner is slang for tear gas. As in it burns your eyes, nose, etc... Seven burners deployed would mean 7 cans of tear gas were shot in the cabin.

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Response to Dr Hobbitstein (Reply #17)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:20 PM

22. No. There's two kinds of tear gas canisters

One is used indoors.

One is used outdoors. Because a flame shoots out of it as it produces tear gas. That's called a burner.

The police used the canisters that they knew would cause a fire.

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #22)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:55 PM

32. Yep, in a cabin they know would burn quickly.

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Response to rightsideout (Reply #32)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 09:41 PM

57. you weren't there derpa derp derp!!!11

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Response to Gentle-man (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:42 PM

12. Dorner wasn't going to be captured alive

thats my opinion, so another shoot out or another chase, he was determined to not be taken.

It was over for him in his mind. Risk going into the cabin and knowing he could have boobie trapped it, I think not.

Burn the cabin down seeing if he will try to flee it, good choice. Los Angeles here.

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Response to Gentle-man (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:48 PM

15. ???????

Lies.

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Response to Gentle-man (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:51 PM

16. What? "The burn" was discussed on the police scanner!!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2360563

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2360792

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2360800

You fired pyrotechnic weapons, but "nobody could have anticipated" them igniting? Don't embarrass yourselves like this, guys. No one blames you for not being interested in taking Dorner alive. But you degrade the honor of the people he killed (and make it EASIER for cop-haters to keep hating) when you flat-out lie like this. I mean, I presume that it's called PYRO-technic tear gas for a REASON!


rocktivity

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Response to rocktivity (Reply #16)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:21 PM

23. Guess we will have to just wait for an investigation *shrug*

As for the pyro in pyrotechnic that you are asking about arent they called that because they contain a small explosive to release the gas quickly so it can disperse inside a room fast as well as to produce a small flash to temporarily blind a suspect so they dont just toss it back out the window at the police?

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #23)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:31 PM

26. Scanner activity emerged which had an officer ordering colleagues

Last edited Sun Aug 10, 2014, 09:41 AM - Edit history (1)

to "burn it (the cabin) down" and a voice saying: "We're gonna go forward with the plan, with the burn." One officer was heard saying: "Seven burners deployed and we have a fire. We have fire in the front. He might come out the back."

"Burners" is a term sometimes used by police to refer to tear gas cannisters, which the officers could have been referring to.

But a local television station also broadcast what appeared to be an officer at the scene saying: "We're going to burn him out," and "Burn that ****** house down!"

Former FBI assistant director Tom Fuentes told CNN: "It's clear there will have to be some further explanation."
link


I guess they calculated, then, that it would take seven of those "small explosive flashes" to START a fire.

Like I said, I can certainly understand WHY they weren't interested in taking Dorner alive. I could even take their side if they'd claimed that tactically, they saw no other alternative. But it makes them look silly at best, and self-incriminating at worst, to be lying about it now.


rocktivity

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Response to rocktivity (Reply #26)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 09:10 AM

49. and ordinary tear gas

does not burn at 4000 degress and take a structure down

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Response to rocktivity (Reply #16)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 09:43 PM

59. no shit..

the disingenuousness throughout this thread is a fucking affront to anyone with two brain cells to rub together.

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Response to Gentle-man (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:02 PM

18. Dorner was a cold blooded murderer and was determined to not be taken alive.

And the PD was happy to oblige him in that wish by burning the cabin down on purpose.

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Response to Kalidurga (Reply #18)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:18 PM

21. Thank you. I don't care how they got him.

I'm just glad they got him.

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Response to underthematrix (Reply #21)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:23 PM

24. I am glad they got him too.

But this situation has show how blurry the line is between the good guys and the bad guys especially the LAPD, I really don't know where they are on the good/bad scale.

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Response to underthematrix (Reply #21)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:37 PM

29. For the sake of our justice system, I do care how they got him.

The police should be held to the highest standards, not the standards of the criminals they seek to capture.

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Response to tinrobot (Reply #29)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 11:36 PM

34. Unfortunately we left that station long ago

"Threat" was the excuse used for torturing detainees, and now it's the excuse for everything from violently attacking peaceful protesters to not trying to apprehend cop killers when options remain. We're giving up our rights to fear.

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Response to magellan (Reply #34)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 11:18 AM

50. true enough

The police have given up on choosing any options other than shooting the hell out of a situation (or in this case just burning the m---f--- down) in many cases more and more, and too many people are allowing that as an okay response. It's a slippery slope, when we let our anger and fear control how we run this country, from the police to the military to the drones to so many situations. If we cannot stand up for our constitutional rights during these trying situations, we lose them slowly but surely forever.

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Response to underthematrix (Reply #21)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 12:06 AM

39. of course you don't care..

who gives a fuck about due process or rule of law when you can exact your pound of flesh. ain't democracy fuckin wonderful?

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Response to underthematrix (Reply #21)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 01:07 AM

43. Cheers to police for bringing down Dorner?

 

Tell me more how being burned alive is part of due process. ~Condescending Wonka

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=225485107576532&set=a.156753707783006.14385.156720204453023&type=1&theater

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Response to Kalidurga (Reply #18)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:29 PM

25. Has the case been investigated and evidence produced to say he committed these crimes?

Did he have a day in court before a jury of his peers? Was he sentenced to death by the rule of law?
If people approve of this it opens the door to some horrific things being accepted. It would be easy
as hell to set someone up. What the cops did here is no better than a lynch mob IMO.

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Response to Mojorabbit (Reply #25)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:36 PM

28. Ugh, enough of the idiotic lynching references.

He was shooting at them. He had killed a cop earlier that day.

He didn't get lynched.

He didn't get assassinated.

He got what he asked for.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #28)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 12:18 AM

40. I disagree. I believe in the rule of law and that does not include

letting the police be judge, jury, and executioner.

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Response to Mojorabbit (Reply #40)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 12:19 AM

41. They killed him because he was shooting at everyone who tried to arrest him.

What you are saying is that cops may not use lethal force, ever.

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Response to Mojorabbit (Reply #25)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:39 PM

31. I believe he committed the crimes he was accused of.

I also believe his accusations against the LAPD and that the LAPD did start the fire that killed him. Dorner will never go on trial so all we have in this case is opinion since the facts will never come out in a trial. I don't approve of the way the LAPD handled this, but I wouldn't want Dorner running around indefinitely either. Both the LAPD and Dorner have proven themselves dangerous. Dorner is out of the picture now, rightly or wrongly, dead is dead. But, the LAPD needs to be focused on now. I hope the resolution to this case is examined very closely. But, I doubt that happens.

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Response to Kalidurga (Reply #18)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 11:52 AM

51. My problem isn't that the PD burned the cabin down on purpose

Last edited Fri Feb 15, 2013, 11:46 AM - Edit history (1)

If they felt there was no other recourse, I could live with that -- if they were wiling say so. My problem is that they're lying about it, which denigrates the memory of the people Dorner murdered. And it gives Dorner the moral victory, turning him into the martyr against police department corruption that he wanted to be.


rocktivity

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Response to rocktivity (Reply #51)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 02:15 PM

52. That is a very good point.

For some people that is what happens. Dorner somehow becomes a victim in all of this. But, for me it doesn't turn him into a martyr. I can believe both parties are terribly guilty. I can not like the tactics that LE uses even if it's against guilty people. Who is to say they won't use these tactics against innocent people if this is allowed to stand without a challenge?

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Response to Kalidurga (Reply #18)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 09:43 PM

58. I am stunned by the DU reaction.

Why are we focusing on the response to a murder who was on a rampage killing, kidnapping, robbing innocent people. He was fucking crazy and evil and delusional.

He was a terrorist...just like mcveigh...just like the fort hood shooter, just like 911. They all had reasons. They all had excuses for their behavior and justifications for their actions.

And the responses to the terror is never perfect. Law enforcement did their best....and some police officers died in an attempt to save others from his rampage.





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Response to Evergreen Emerald (Reply #58)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 10:48 PM

61. I am not at all surprised.

We do need to think about the response. The response included riddling a truck full of holes that had two women in it that in no way resembled the description of the suspect. Even if they had resembled the suspect, we don't want people shooting at people that just look like the person they are looking for. In another case they shot at a guy that also didn't even resemble the suspect after talking to him moments before. And they say they didn't set the cabin on fire on purpose, I believe that is disputed and considering the above responses I don't think questioning the story of LE is at all surprising. I have questions about that myself.

It isn't so much Dorner was killed under questionable circumstances. It is the fact that LE wasn't at all careful around innocent people. And also just because Dorner was a cold blooded killer doesn't mean that the LAPD and other police departments are innocent of the charges that Dorner brought up.

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Response to Kalidurga (Reply #61)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 11:47 PM

62. Before I jump to those conclusions ...

I would like to know more of the specific circumstances.

There is such hand wringing about burning down a cabin that was used for cover in a shoot out. There does not need to be a fair fight. They needed to stop him...and he was refusing to give up.



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Response to Evergreen Emerald (Reply #62)

Fri Feb 15, 2013, 12:13 AM

63. It isn't just the burning of the cabin however that happened.

LEOs opened fire on 3 innocent people that is not in dispute.

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Response to Gentle-man (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:33 PM

27. "Burn this mother fucker!"

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Response to Ed Suspicious (Reply #27)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 11:00 PM

33. I know . . .

"Burn this mother fucker" is just another term meaning "Send in the tear gas."

That explains it.

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Response to rightsideout (Reply #33)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 05:45 AM

44. I thought it meant "warm this doughnut in the microwave"

They were probably discussing the amenities of the on-site command post. They would have been far more professional if they were talking about the standoff situation. They would not have suggested committing arson and murder over the air, right?

Doughnuts.



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Response to rightsideout (Reply #33)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 09:46 PM

60. i believe that's code for "proceed with caution"

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Response to Gentle-man (Original post)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 01:07 AM

42. Tell me sweet little lies.

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