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Wed Feb 13, 2013, 07:46 PM

 

Ex-LAPD cop (Dorner) gains sympathizers on social media

Source: CNN

The life and apparent death of the ex-Los Angeles Police Department cop who declared war against police corruption has generated a social media fringe of fans who are asserting that Christopher Jordan Dorner was really a hero seeking justice, despite being a suspect in four killings.

The sympathizers have garnered 18,336 supporters on a Facebook page entitled "We Stand With Christopher Dorner." The online group has posted Dorner's manifesto against corrupt police -- a document that was "scrubbed by mainstream media outlets," the webpage charges.

Another Facebook page, "We Are All Chris Dorner," had 3,819 "likes," or followers, with 6,620 people talking about the page devoted to how the 6-foot, 270-pound Dorner was "the victim of a manhunt and smear campaign. 5 years ago he was fired from the LAPD for seeking to expose corruption within it."


Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/13/us/lapd-dorner-fans/

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Reply Ex-LAPD cop (Dorner) gains sympathizers on social media (Original post)
michigandem58 Feb 2013 OP
George II Feb 2013 #1
Sen. Walter Sobchak Feb 2013 #4
heaven05 Feb 2013 #5
dbackjon Feb 2013 #6
tblue Feb 2013 #7
iandhr Feb 2013 #16
Cha Feb 2013 #25
DollarBillHines Feb 2013 #11
iandhr Feb 2013 #17
DollarBillHines Feb 2013 #19
iandhr Feb 2013 #20
geek tragedy Feb 2013 #24
Llewlladdwr Feb 2013 #13
nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #8
geek tragedy Feb 2013 #26
michigandem58 Feb 2013 #27
nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #29
michigandem58 Feb 2013 #59
onenote Feb 2013 #42
nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #43
onenote Feb 2013 #45
nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #48
onenote Feb 2013 #51
George II Feb 2013 #55
nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #56
yurbud Feb 2013 #83
liberalmuse Feb 2013 #2
Historic NY Feb 2013 #15
lexw Feb 2013 #3
chuckstevens Feb 2013 #9
SCVDem Feb 2013 #10
damnedifIknow Feb 2013 #12
nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #33
onenote Feb 2013 #44
nadinbrzezinski Feb 2013 #46
George II Feb 2013 #94
SCVDem Feb 2013 #70
George II Feb 2013 #90
Zoeisright Feb 2013 #57
George II Feb 2013 #91
appacom Feb 2013 #14
ancianita Feb 2013 #21
iandhr Feb 2013 #22
geek tragedy Feb 2013 #31
sikofit3 Feb 2013 #88
George II Feb 2013 #93
ancianita Feb 2013 #63
geek tragedy Feb 2013 #28
George II Feb 2013 #92
ancianita Feb 2013 #18
geek tragedy Feb 2013 #30
iandhr Feb 2013 #35
geek tragedy Feb 2013 #36
ancianita Feb 2013 #37
geek tragedy Feb 2013 #39
ancianita Feb 2013 #47
geek tragedy Feb 2013 #49
apocalypsehow Feb 2013 #80
muriel_volestrangler Feb 2013 #60
ancianita Feb 2013 #61
muriel_volestrangler Feb 2013 #66
ancianita Feb 2013 #79
muriel_volestrangler Feb 2013 #84
ancianita Feb 2013 #85
apocalypsehow Feb 2013 #81
Cha Feb 2013 #52
geek tragedy Feb 2013 #53
CanSocDem Feb 2013 #62
geek tragedy Feb 2013 #68
CanSocDem Feb 2013 #71
geek tragedy Feb 2013 #73
George II Feb 2013 #95
Steerpike Feb 2013 #23
99th_Monkey Feb 2013 #32
geek tragedy Feb 2013 #34
iandhr Feb 2013 #38
geek tragedy Feb 2013 #40
Warren DeMontague Feb 2013 #41
geek tragedy Feb 2013 #50
iandhr Feb 2013 #54
truthisfreedom Feb 2013 #58
Dash87 Feb 2013 #64
lib2DaBone Feb 2013 #65
loveandlight Feb 2013 #67
geek tragedy Feb 2013 #69
MicaelS Feb 2013 #74
geek tragedy Feb 2013 #75
MicaelS Feb 2013 #76
Sunlei Feb 2013 #72
onenote Feb 2013 #82
Sunlei Feb 2013 #86
onenote Feb 2013 #87
appleannie1 Feb 2013 #77
Aerows Feb 2013 #78
Pterodactyl Feb 2013 #89

Response to michigandem58 (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 07:51 PM

1. He had a lot of sympathizers here, to the point where I saw that they equated......

....the search for him to the Obama administration drone policy. Some were even whining about the tactics of the police looking for him, too.

Bizarre - what's become of us?

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Response to George II (Reply #1)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:12 PM

4. Oakland cop-killer Lovelle Mixon had a cheering section here too

As did the guy who seconds after running down a pedestrian volunteered to the police that he had "just smoked a bowl" and failed a sobriety test, he was immediately dubbed a victim of the fascist war on drugs. Maaaahn...

If there is a criminal, any criminal, somebody here will whip up a sympathetic narrative. If there was a serial killer who murdered joggers at Runyon Canyon and then pissed on their bodies... there would be a DU topic titled "Man sentenced to death for peeing in park"

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Response to George II (Reply #1)


Response to heaven05 (Reply #5)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:24 PM

6. So Monica Quan deserved to die?

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Response to heaven05 (Reply #5)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:27 PM

7. Oh, heaven05.

I think I know what you mean. I really do. I wish so much that Christopher Dorner hadn't killed innocent people. Then he would have, maybe possibly, been a hero in more people's eyes.

He did a horrible, horrible thing. And he will never be forgiven by many, if not most, people. He will be vilified throughout eternity. He will be hated by Left and Right. But I read his manifesto and I could feel the anguish and frustration, and it is nothing new. I've read about people hurt and frustrated by a system that was rigged. And so I refuse to join in spitting on the man's grave. He was a damaged and tragic soul who did the unthinkable and unforgivable But I think he must have at some point rationalized that the payment of his name was worth that sacrifice. And, while, I do not condone his actions, I have never been one to jump on any bandwagon.


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Response to tblue (Reply #7)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:46 PM

16. From his manifesto

Here is his threatening to kill the children of the people he blames for his situation.

"I never had the opportunity to have a family of my own, I’m terminating yours. -----, -----, -----, and BOR members Look your wives/husbands and surviving children directly in the face and tell them the truth as to why your children are dead."



Or if LGBT bashing is more your thing.

Those lesbian officers in supervising positions who go to work, day in day out, with the sole intent of attempting to prove your misandrist authority (not feminism) to degrade male officers. You are a high value target.

You seriously feel his anguish?

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Response to iandhr (Reply #16)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:33 PM

25. Yeah, fucking idiot manifesto. "high value target"? Does that mean

they're his target? He's fucking going to kill them too?

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Response to heaven05 (Reply #5)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:35 PM

11. "character and integrity"?

He killed innocent people in cold blood.

He killed them with pre-meditation.

I wish he had run out of ammo before he died.

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Response to DollarBillHines (Reply #11)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:46 PM

17. THANK YOU

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Response to iandhr (Reply #17)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:57 PM

19. I should have added "with malice, aforethought".

What the fuck are these people thinking?

I believe there is a serious lack of real-world experience out there.

Just think of what would have happened if the Newtown shooter had pre-posted a 'manifesto', going on about how people had ignored and avoided him because he was a fucking nutcase and was just simply making a statement by gunning down a flock of kids.

This is some seriously fucked up stuff.

I cannot understand this delusional, irrational, immature crap.

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Response to DollarBillHines (Reply #19)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:00 PM

20. You and me both

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Response to DollarBillHines (Reply #11)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:33 PM

24. Very killer has suck, morally depraved fucks who support him.

Some of them have DU accounts.

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Response to heaven05 (Reply #5)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:41 PM

13. Someone with character and integrity doesn't target and kill innocents. nt

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Response to George II (Reply #1)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:28 PM

8. Two points you might want to consider

1.- So far we have had two more former LAPD officers come out and explain the internal culture...I will add a former Border Patrol officer who is saying this racism is wide spread.

2.- None is saying he dd the right thing, but LAPD should be investigated.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #8)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:34 PM

26. Someone above just got a post hidden for praising what he did.

The guy has fans here. Two others got PPR'd for praising his murders and celebrating them.

And 5 people voted to keep a post describing the killings he committed as "retributive justice."

So, yes, there are plenty of Dorner supporters of the cop-hating fringe of the left as well as on the right.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #8)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:35 PM

27. So you're saying he did some good

 

which mitigates the murders.

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Response to michigandem58 (Reply #27)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:37 PM

29. Did I say mitigate? Did I say justify?




You did.

I pointed out that people are starting to talk of this. I will add the last time any talk of LAPD issues was during the Rampart scandals.

But did I use those words? You did.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #29)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 05:47 AM

59. Not in so many words

 

But in response to a thread about Dorner being supported by some, your first response was what you saw as a positive result of his actions. That's pretty clearly mitigating the killings.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #8)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:16 PM

42. Yes, racism probably is widespread in the LAPD and in many other PDs.

But how does that explain or is any way all that relevant to what he did. There are plenty of other police officers in the LAPD and other police forces that confront a fucked-up culture. But they don't decide to start killing innocents and threatening children and issuing hate-filled manifestos that attack gays.

So yes the LAPD should be investigated. Maybe other forces should be investigated. And the rising price of gas should be investigated. They all are equally relevant to this fuck's killing spree.

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Response to onenote (Reply #42)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:17 PM

43. Whoosh!!!!

And I will leave it at that.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #43)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:19 PM

45. Sounds like the sound of the air ball you just shot.

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Response to onenote (Reply #45)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:24 PM

48. Welcome to my ignore list

No use in me wasting my time with you.

Have an excellent life.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #48)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:57 PM

51. I am having one, thanks. You have one as well.

Not that you'll know I wished that for you.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #8)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 11:53 PM

55. Oh? Who are you....why not come out from behind that mask????

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Response to George II (Reply #55)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 11:54 PM

56. A person that can hold more than one thought

In my head at a time...also capable of critical thinking, and shades of gray.

How 'bout you?

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Response to George II (Reply #1)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 06:47 PM

83. questioning police tactics is not the same as sympathizing with a killer

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Response to michigandem58 (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 07:56 PM

2. If you overlook...

the fact that he murdered 4 people in cold blood, and was planning to murder even more - including the innocent families of the LAPD, sure, he's a hero.

I'm neither a sympathizer or a "Oh goody, he's been burnt to a crisp" sort of person. It's all just very tragic and sad.

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Response to liberalmuse (Reply #2)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:43 PM

15. Put me in the goody category.......

this was nothing more than a power trip, the same disfunctional thinking and persecution complex that got him fired.....he has been carrying a grudge against people and his grudge when not sedated stooped, to the families of those that either defended or prosecuted him...

He should never ever been hired as a cop, apparently he seduced them like he did with the Navy. Manifesto......please how many nuts have had them......he would have kept killing and killing to sedate his supposed grievances.

People think he would have given up......yeah okay.

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Response to michigandem58 (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:09 PM

3. I see him as a serial killer.

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Response to michigandem58 (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:31 PM

9. Ayn Rand's Hero

Ayn Rand admired a William Edward Hickman , a man who murdered a 12 year old girl. People are really sick!

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Response to michigandem58 (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:34 PM

10. Show of hands!

How many Dorner sympathizers live in Southern California?

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Response to michigandem58 (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:37 PM

12. Sad state of affairs

but nobody trusts the police anymore.

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Response to damnedifIknow (Reply #12)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:56 PM

33. I know I don't.

Occupy did it for me. I saw abuses from a better dept that were insane.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #33)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:19 PM

44. so how upset were you at President Obama saluting Brian Murphy at the SOTU

After all, he was a cop who shot (to kill) the sikh mosque shooter rather than attempt to coax him to put down his weapon and give himself up. According to some (not you) that was an attempted "execution" of an "innocent' person since it denied him his right to trial. (And yes I know that after being hit by Murphy's round, the shooter blew out his own brains, but Murphy wasn't shooting to wound.)

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Response to onenote (Reply #44)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:23 PM

46. Apples, oranges and all that.

But you knew that.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #46)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 12:42 PM

94. Not at all...

...they were both cold blooded killers - Dorner and the Sikh killer.

That childish "but you knew that" is one of the most idiotic comments I've seen around here in months - come out from behind your mask and stop "acting" like you're so superior to everyone else here.

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Response to onenote (Reply #44)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 12:18 PM

70. The use of deadly force is authorized

to protect human life.

Also to aprehend the Blues Brothers, but that's not important.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #33)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 11:08 AM

90. It was only a matter of time.....................

before "Occupy" got dragged into this discussion.

So.....

how long before we see an "Occupy Dorner" movement? Or an "Occupy LAPD" movement? Or an "Occupy Torrance PD" movement (since the LAPD has been blamed for the Torrance mistaken identity shooting)

This discussion has been going on for several days, I'm surprised someone hasn't yet equated Dorner with Julian Assange!

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Response to damnedifIknow (Reply #12)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 12:00 AM

57. I do.

I have several friends who are policemen, and they are honorable and just. They take pride in their jobs, they have families who love them, and they follow the law.

It's also a fact that the police are OBLIGATED to use MORE force against someone shooting at them to stop that person. Anyone whining about how Dorner went down doesn't understand reality OR live in the real world.

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Response to Zoeisright (Reply #57)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 12:25 PM

91. What bugs me is that people around here like to generalize when something out of the ordinary...

...like this happens. The knee-jerk reaction is to blame whatever is handy at the time, in this case the LAPD. Sure, there are bad cops (I've seen them in NY when I lived and worked there), but the super majority, maybe 98+ % of them are good, honest, compassionate, and helpful - AND well trained.

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Response to michigandem58 (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:42 PM

14. Any way you look at it, it was a tragedy of all involved.

Nothing justifies killing innocent people, and my heart goes out to all the victims.

But I am especially sad for Dorner's mother who will spend the rest of her life, peeling herself like a grape, second guessing every parenting decision she ever made. The other victims' families, in time, will begin to heal. For Dorner's mother, that day will never come. For her, I weep.

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Response to appacom (Reply #14)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:11 PM

21. She probably won't suffer over her mothering the rest of her life. She'll miss her son. Rather than

neurotically cast herself as the source of what he's chosen to do, she might eventually understand everything he did. She might know that how she raised him had little or nothing to do with what he did. She might suffer for deaths of the innocent, but she might eventually feel some consolation that his actions brought about justice that the people of LA deserve, and that a generally failing police department might be reconstructed, along with all the saved rights and lives that that change will bring.

LAPD has caused the unnecessary suffering of many mothers, as well.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #21)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:21 PM

22. Justice really?

What did the victims do that warranted a death sentence.


One had a six year old daughter and a four month old son.

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Response to iandhr (Reply #22)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:46 PM

31. That DUer considers Quan's death to be 'retributive justice'

We have some really sick people around here.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #31)

Fri Feb 15, 2013, 09:27 AM

88. This is becoming a dangerous trend

I am a new contributor to DU threads but I have been a reader since 2005 and I read daily at least twice a day. What I have noticed, and I know others have as well, is that DU is being infiltrated with dangerous rhetoric that is being linked to the mass media. I firmly believe that this is a plan to discredit this wonderful site, as well as others, and Democrats in general. Trolls are saying these horrible things on these boards and just like the original op of the thread, a story in the news is on just that with the recent Dorner story.

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Response to sikofit3 (Reply #88)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 12:38 PM

93. Stick around and contribute, please....but just from personal experience...

....I joined years ago. I periodically go on "sabbaticals" when garbage like this begins to show up, when so-called "progressives" go almost as far a advocating anarchy to promote their own narrow objectives. I took off almost two years, and just returned last summer during the Presidential campaign to see what the feeling around here was about Obama's re-election (from many I was very disappointed), and the reaction to his re-election - again, disappointed - its as though he has never done any good as President and if not 110% perfect he's a bum.

A couple of things in January really turned me off, and now this - deifying a cold-blooded killer in the name of furthering "justice".

Seeing what you say as a new, unjaded DU-er is refreshing. Good luck and stick around. But be forewarned, posts like some we've seen here are not from trolls, but regulars here. Check some of their post counts - if they were trolls they wouldn't have lasted that long.

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Response to iandhr (Reply #22)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 09:13 AM

63. Nothing warranted their deaths. Nothing ever warrants anyone's death.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #21)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:35 PM

28. His actions brought about injustice and death.

Not the other way around.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #21)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 12:31 PM

92. WHAT????

What did Dorner do over the last week or two that "brought about justice"? How can you say that the LAPD is a "generally failing police department"? And how does going on a shooting spree, killing several innocent people cause the reconstrution of the LAPD, even if it does happen?

So now causing families of innocents unnecessary suffering is justified because the LAPD did the same (speculatively)? Why don't you visit the families of the people he killed and terrorized and explain this to them.

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Response to michigandem58 (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 08:55 PM

18. "Sympathizers" is the wrong label. CNN, as usual, tells the wrong story and will never follow up.

I wouldn't keep "sorting" out or judging the moral character here of whoever in DU is on which side -- Dorner's or the official state and media side.

State sponsored racist terrorists get away with brutalizing the people who pay their salaries. They have broken their oaths as public protectors, and turned on the public. I've seen it in my home town of Chicago. In every city I've lived in. Dorner's response is to counter-terrorize them. Knowing that we've come to live in a militarized state, and the police abuses of civilians, we can't pick and choose our evidence to back whoever we choose to see as evil here. Monica Quan's life should not outweigh all the other lives that the LAPD itself has murdered. Dorner and the LAPD are the symptoms, not the disease.

The truth will eventually come out. I decided to put this here because others don't take the mainstream media "official" view of Dorner. It doesn't, however, make them "sympathizers."

http://www.submedia.tv/stimulator/2013/02/11/dorner/

I'm not going to argue about which murderous evils are worse, either. I believe him when he says that he was ruined and cast out by an evil, untrustworthy system, and he then chose to fight it on his own terms. When state corruption and militarized disorder are the standards, retributive justice gets labeled terrorism and subversive.

The more state security forces hurt us, the more fighters will emerge. Don't act like dazed Stockholm Syndrome hostages full of self righteous anger toward these individuals.

Don't bait me to take a side. The whole truth will eventually come out.

State by state, citizens' oversight panels (from experienced jury pools) with the power to hold ethics hearings, review police misconduct, and the power to indict and fire cops -- along with frequent grand jury investigations -- should be the legal structure that polices this country's police.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #18)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:38 PM

30. You're not a supporter of his, just an apologist and cheerleader of his murders.

Go sit next to Randall Terry, who said exactly what you said about Scott Roeder.

Your callous dismissal of Monica Quan's cold blooded murder is a sign of moral depravity


You called his murders "retributive justice". Which is something only a sick fuck would say.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #30)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:58 PM

35. THANK YOU

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Response to iandhr (Reply #35)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:59 PM

36. Seriously, PPR poster child there. nt

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #30)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:00 PM

37. You would know all about "cold blooded," I see. I reject your characterization.

That's just your oversimplified interpretation to my attempt to reference the sick system that caused all this suffering to begin with.

He murdered innocent people. That's evil. My retributive justice label in no way includes them.

But I won't join any hue and cry to vilify him to feed some PR diversion that makes him a scapegoat for an equally murderous and corrupt police system, either. Too many more have died because of bad police in this country. Disregarding that is what's callous.

Hater.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #37)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:04 PM

39. Oh bullshit. Read what you wrote.

I believe him when he says that he was ruined and cast out by an evil, untrustworthy system, and he then chose to fight it on his own terms. When state corruption and militarized disorder are the standards, retributive justice gets labeled terrorism and subversive.


You practically tripped on your Pom-poms. Same rhetoric used in defense of Scott Roeder and Hamas.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #39)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:23 PM

47. Oh yeah...pom poms all over an attempt to remind people of context of a killer's actions.

It's not MY version of retributive justice.

Bullshit damning by association.

Hater.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #47)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:28 PM

49. Own your words, murder cheerleader. nt

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #49)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 06:16 PM

80. +1000. n/t.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #47)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 06:23 AM

60. You are the one who called murders of innocent people "retributive justice"

It's the worst thing I've seen anywhere on this story. It's not "damning by association"; it's your own view of what Dorner did as "retributive justice" that is outrageous. It is full of hate. You think that killing innocent people to attack a system they were not part of is "justice". That is just what a military state would do - execute the innocent to annoy those associated with them.

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #60)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 09:04 AM

61. You may not interpret me back to me. I don't endorse his form of retributive justice.

I do, however, understand it. I don't praise him. But I won't pathologize him. Given the sick system he had to live with, I can understand his reaction and willingness to take the consequences. He made his point. People are facing, rather than turning a blind eye, to this system.

His system fight was defensive hate. His murdering was not. I understand that. That doesn't make me a hater.


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Response to ancianita (Reply #61)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 11:11 AM

66. Do you accept that it was not 'justice' in any form?

You need to do that, to remove the tag of 'hater' which your current posts pin on you.

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #66)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 06:09 PM

79. I accept that HE decided what was his form of justice was, and you Grand Inquisitors need to

stop trying to pin labels on perspectives that attempt to understand that, or perspectives that you don't like. I'm not the one who's had constant blocks because I insult other DU members. Read my past posts. You'll see that my issues are philosophical and try to examine the broader contexts of problems.

You need to accept that you can't stalk me with some 'hater' label no matter how many posts you think qualify you. There's no hater label on me. Other members here, and LAPD, agree with me, but you neo tea party purist troll trackers verbally berate anyone -- even across threads -- who doesn't meet your "unity through uniformity" standard. Good God Get a Fucking Grip.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #79)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 06:47 PM

84. In #37, you called a DUer a 'hater'. In #47, you called them a 'hater' again.

In #61, you claimed "That doesn't make me a hater". So, in #66, I said your posts were pinning 'hater' on you. And now, you claim that this is 'stalking' you with a 'hater' label! Don't be so ridiculous. It's you who has used the term repeatedly. And it's you who is calling the murders a form of 'justice'. And I haven't seen anyone else on DU stoop as low as that.

"I'm not the one who's had constant blocks because I insult other DU members." Who is?

By "you neo tea party purist troll trackers", do you mean you think you've been called a "neo tea party purist troll"? Or are you insulting me in some fashion?

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #84)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 07:28 PM

85. I get your 'proof,' and understand that my reaction reflects frustration with personal attack. I'm

not really trying to insult you and I'm not going to sort the hater labelling out much more than to say this: I admit to interpreting geek's 'murder cheerleader' comment (up or downthread, wherever) to label me a hater. I labeled him a hater for his claims that if I don't see Dorner as any'thing' more than a sick, immoral fuck, then I'm a Dorner "supporter." That's all. Geek's arch outrage over the idea that one might try to understand a murderer, that my criticism of CNN's use of the word "sympathizer" were singling me out as a "supporter" just because he didn't like a phrase like "retributive justice" seeming to legitimize it.

And you also say, in Post #60, " You need to do that, to remove the tag of 'hater' which your current posts pin on you."
You come along and say that the whole thread needs my explanation of "retributive justice," as well. But before I get on with that, hear me: You, geek and others need to lay off people in their attempts to understand this horror through any perspective other than the band wagon's. You re-read his ridiculous interpretations of what I've said and then call me ridiculous?

No attackers here seem to understand that there is a history of retributive justice that includes killing -- not as a standard that I adhere to -- but as one that has been seen as 'purifying,' and somehow doing 'god's work' -- we know it to be Old Testament biblical. I'm an atheist, but my study of it leads me to understand that retributive justice, in the narrow biblical executioner sense, is the "intentional" murder justice that is meted out in capital punishment systems all over this country -- a system that contains judge, jury and executioner. Those systems could be religious, state-sponsored, or simply appropriated by some 'sick fuck' whom you want to have an outrage thread about. But historically, revenge is an ethic and a form of rough justice. You might even think about the famous "Pulp Fiction" scene where the Samuel Jackson character quotes Ezekiel before murdering some drug guys.

If you feel insulted, then you need to lay off the demand for explanation and share, yourself, any proofs that you have that retributive justice is not a "thing." You need to understand that my use of justice as far as I could understand Dorner's use of it is an attempt to locate him away from the usual simple minded attempts at pathologizing him. His situation was not anything like Roeder's or those other killers, either, just because the word "manifesto" has become a pejorative to lump him in with all those who came before.

I'm going to stop here. Peace.

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #60)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 06:18 PM

81. Spot. On.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #18)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 11:02 PM

52. "retributive justice"? Dorner's a sick fuck.

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Response to Cha (Reply #52)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 11:07 PM

53. He was. Now he's dead as a Dorner nail.

His supporters remain sick fucks.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #18)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 09:04 AM

62. Best Post in the thread.


"State sponsored racist terrorists get away with brutalizing the people who pay their salaries. They have broken their oaths as public protectors, and turned on the public."

And it's amazing, more-so here in particular, that people cannot get their righteous indignation fired up until there is a painfully obvious single individual ("lone assassin") who take the fall for the failings of the 'institution'.

Our own governments, corporate giants and hallowed institutions commit "murder" on a daily basis and are rarely called to task for it, let alone incite the masses to the level of moral indignation witnessed here.

Well said:

"The more state security forces hurt us, the more fighters will emerge. Don't act like dazed Stockholm Syndrome hostages full of self righteous anger toward these individuals."

.

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Response to CanSocDem (Reply #62)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 11:53 AM

68. Unlike you cheerleaders for a murderer, we will not describe his atrocities as 'justice'

and yes we will be angry at him for killing innocent human beings.

That does not mean we are suffering from Stockholm Syndrome. It means we're not depraved assholes.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #68)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 12:26 PM

71. Have you given up reading?


Are you now content just to make cheap political points rather than discuss what is REALLY wrong with this picture...??


"It means we're not depraved assholes."

If you'd understood the posts you'd see that we really are....

.

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Response to CanSocDem (Reply #71)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 01:34 PM

73. Um, people who take offense at mass murdering scum like Dorner

are not suffering from Stockholm Syndrome.

It's rather delusional to suggest that.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #18)

Sat Feb 16, 2013, 12:44 PM

95. As I see it, your post is a long-winded justification for cold-blooded murder.

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Response to michigandem58 (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:26 PM

23. Self Destructive

is the only way to describe people who hold up a psychopathic monster as a flag bearer for their cause.

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Response to michigandem58 (Original post)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:52 PM

32. This is just nuts. I have no respect for Dorner "sympathizers" ~nt

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Reply #32)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 09:58 PM

34. Well, there are at least two in this thread. nt

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #34)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:01 PM

38. There are really sick people out there

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Response to iandhr (Reply #38)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:07 PM

40. Just like the Operation Rescue fucks who supported Scott Roeder.

These people are not on my side.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #40)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:13 PM

41. Or the ones who cheered on Eric Rudolph.

Inexcusable and disgusting.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #41)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 10:37 PM

50. Or Lovelle Mixon. Or Osama. Or Baruch Goldstein. nt

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #40)

Wed Feb 13, 2013, 11:26 PM

54. Exactly

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Response to michigandem58 (Original post)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 12:43 AM

58. None of us know enough about the real facts of this case to make a complete judgement...

But the plain fact is that we need cops and if someone starts threatening to kill them and then carries it out, they will most certainly be taken down by the cops.

If Dorner wanted to do the right thing, he should have pursued legal action against the force. End of story. He could have built up a lot of support by using social media without going all First Blood on the force... after all, he drew first blood himself. He could have put all of that energy into trying to change things at the LAPD for the rest of his life. He chose the wrong path.

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Response to michigandem58 (Original post)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 10:08 AM

64. Most of the people he killed weren't even LAPD.

His attorney's daughter and her fiancée, and then that cop who was in another town.

Dorner supporters are the worst kind - they'll latch onto and make a hero out of anyone, no matter how vile their actions were. They probably also supported that loser who killed those cops in Oakland. Yeah, fight the machine! That'll show 'em!

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Response to michigandem58 (Original post)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 11:10 AM

65. I don't think he had any "Fans" for killing people....

 

..but I think there are a number of people who are asking questions like: Why are they offering a million dollar reward and where is this money coming from?

Why do they want to shut this guy up? (shoot first... identify later)

Why did they set fire to the cabin , like at Waco, and then deny it? (The audio is very clear..."Burn the MF'er down")

Is this the same mentality of government officials who tell us 911 was done by one individual in a cave with a cell phone, and that "enhanced Interrogation" is good"?

Are we seeing an end to Due Process?



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Response to lib2DaBone (Reply #65)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 11:40 AM

67. yep...

Those are exactly the kinds of questions on my mind. I do not like what this man did, not a fan at all. Yes, there were better ways to handle the accusations he had about the police department, and yes, I believe those accusations. But I also believe that part of the problem with our current police and military are recruitment policies that allow people like Dorner to be recruited. That killing, angry insane mentality exists in too many of our supposed "law enforcement" communities. And racism and sexism and all of it. And sometimes, like with Dorner, it gets crazy and out of hand and people are killed. Well, what do you expect when this kind of mentality is what we support in our police and military systems? This time he killed other police and innocent bystanders. But what about all the innocent people who are killed and maimed and tortured by our out-of-control police departments and military actions? Where is the equal outrage, where is the million dollar rewards for investigating and getting to the bottom of those violent actions? We ARE seeing the end to due process, and for people on this board not to recognize that is just scary to me. Just really scary and sad.

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Response to lib2DaBone (Reply #65)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 11:54 AM

69. There's one who got his post hidden in this thread.,

Skinner banned a couple of DUers for cheering him on.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #69)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 01:55 PM

74. Who got banned? n/t

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Response to MicaelS (Reply #74)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 01:59 PM

75. plethoro and coalition_unwilling. nt

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #75)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 01:59 PM

76. Thanks. n/t

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Response to michigandem58 (Original post)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 12:36 PM

72. I believe he did get screwed and Dorner's manifesto against corrupt police. Do not support the kills

He is not a hero. Many of the police were even worse, much more reckless in their manhunt. Out of control police lynch mobs!

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Response to Sunlei (Reply #72)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 06:31 PM

82. The police were "worse" than Dorner?

Scorecard:

Number of innocent people killed by Dorner: 4
Number of innocent people killed by police: 0

Yes, the police overreaction in shooting at innocent people was wrong and should be investigated and dealt with appropriately. But characterizing those actions as "worse" than Dorner's actions? That's sick.

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Response to onenote (Reply #82)

Fri Feb 15, 2013, 08:47 AM

86. wreckless blind rage firing by police into populated areas could have killed many citizens.

The same with the police firing blindly into, tearing the walls down and burning the house. There could have been people in that house. Police were shouting on their scanners to burn him.

Our police are not supposted to be judge, jury and executioners, or a crazed out of control mob.

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Response to Sunlei (Reply #86)

Fri Feb 15, 2013, 09:26 AM

87. Please offer a scintilla of evidence that anyone else was in that cabin.

Here's what the police knew about the cabin:

From the owner they knew that no one was supposed to be there.
From direct observation they knew that Dorner didn't drag anyone in there with him.
From direct observation they knew that there were no footprints in the snow other than
those made by Dorner.
From experience they knew that Dorner had just allowed the man whose truck he carjacked to go free and thus in the 1 in a billion chance that someone was squatting in the house it was likely he would have told that person to get out.

The fact that the police were right that there was no one else in the cabin must bother some DUers a lot. They would have been so much happier if the police had killed an innocent person since it would somehow justify their view that the police should have simply stood idly by until some magical moment when Dorner gave himself up (i.e., the day after sun rose in the west and set in the east).

The police shot and killed the asshole that killed a school bus driver and took a five year old hostage. Were they judge, jury and executioners too? Or do you concede that there are circumstances in which it is entirely proper for the police to kill a suspect?

I wouldn't characterize all of law enforcement as a "crazed out of control mob" because some police shot at innocent people. The cops that shot at innocent people were wrong and should be dealt with forcefully. But it was Dorner that sealed his own fate by refusing to give himself up, by making it clear he had no intention of giving himself up, and by shooting at members of law enforcement that got within range.

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Response to michigandem58 (Original post)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 02:14 PM

77. Actually, in the end, that could be a good thing. It just might wake bad PD's

around the country up to the fact that it has gotten harder to hide behind their badges because they not only have eyes on them, there is now an easy means of making misconduct public knowledge. I worked in a PD for over 15 years. There are good cops but there are also arrogant, power hungry abusers that would be up for assault charges if they were not the ones in uniform. And they ARE a brotherhood that protects it's own.

Dorner made choices and was responsible not only for his victim's deaths but also his own. But that in no way excuses the officers that played into his wishes while screaming "burn that mother****er". Doing that made them just as guilty of murder as he was. Two wrongs don't make a right and just because someone chooses to die by cop bullet does not mean a cop has an obligation or a right to pull a trigger.

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Response to michigandem58 (Original post)

Thu Feb 14, 2013, 02:16 PM

78. The guy was nuts

I'm not sure how anyone thinks this would have ended any different than him being dead. He stated over and over again that he knew he was going to die. There is nothing heroic about gunning down multiple people and terrorizing others.

That said, there certainly was nothing heroic about shooting women delivering papers in a truck that wasn't the same color, make or model of the one you are looking for, either. The LAPD didn't make a very good case that they are honorable and just.

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Response to michigandem58 (Original post)

Fri Feb 15, 2013, 09:31 AM

89. He gets no sympathy from me.

He was a brutal, gun wielding killer. Why would anyone be sympathetic to such an evil person?

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