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Thu Jan 31, 2013, 11:59 AM

Joint Chiefs: Looming cuts would ‘hollow’ military

Source: AP

WASHINGTON (AP) — The military’s top leaders are warning Congress that automatic spending cuts looming in March would force the Pentagon to slash operating budgets, weakening the armed forces and possibly forcing furloughs of 800,000 civilian employees.

The Joint Chiefs say in a letter to Congress that the cuts would create a “hollow force” and would require aircraft to be grounded and warships to return to port.

The chiefs said the troops on the front lines would continue to receive the support they need, despite a cut to the Pentagon’s overall budget of more than 7 percent. But those cuts feel more like 20 percent because they’re crammed into the second half of the budget year and pay for uniformed personnel is exempt, as are costs for combat operations.

-30-

Read more: http://www.salon.com/2013/01/31/joint_chiefs_looming_cuts_would_hollow_military/

42 replies, 3071 views

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Reply Joint Chiefs: Looming cuts would ‘hollow’ military (Original post)
DonViejo Jan 2013 OP
Taverner Jan 2013 #1
villager Jan 2013 #3
Purveyor Jan 2013 #4
Owl Jan 2013 #5
earthside Jan 2013 #6
Plucketeer Jan 2013 #14
earthside Jan 2013 #24
Plucketeer Jan 2013 #33
bluedigger Jan 2013 #2
Berlum Jan 2013 #7
rocktivity Jan 2013 #8
coalition_unwilling Jan 2013 #9
L0oniX Jan 2013 #12
dotymed Jan 2013 #18
KamaAina Jan 2013 #23
MrYikes Jan 2013 #28
dotymed Feb 2013 #39
KamaAina Feb 2013 #41
Downtown Hound Jan 2013 #10
L0oniX Jan 2013 #11
november3rd Jan 2013 #13
AlbertCat Jan 2013 #15
People b4 profits Jan 2013 #16
AtheistCrusader Jan 2013 #17
ReRe Jan 2013 #19
bluestateguy Jan 2013 #20
Third Doctor Jan 2013 #21
Phlem Jan 2013 #22
olddad56 Jan 2013 #25
valerief Jan 2013 #26
SpankMe Jan 2013 #27
AngryAmish Jan 2013 #29
Skittles Jan 2013 #30
patrice Jan 2013 #31
Kelvin Mace Jan 2013 #32
Doctor_J Jan 2013 #34
Spitfire of ATJ Jan 2013 #35
Myrina Jan 2013 #36
JustABozoOnThisBus Jan 2013 #37
lib2DaBone Jan 2013 #38
Blandocyte Feb 2013 #40
Octafish Feb 2013 #42

Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 12:00 PM

1. Good. Hollow the motherfucker out. NT

 

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Response to Taverner (Reply #1)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 12:04 PM

3. +1

n/t

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Response to Taverner (Reply #1)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 12:04 PM

4. ^^^THIS^^^ eom

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Response to Taverner (Reply #1)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 12:06 PM

5. I totally agree.

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Response to Taverner (Reply #1)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 12:08 PM

6. To start how about closing half the overseas bases?

Really, we have something like fifteen military installations in Italy!

How about canceling some wealth transfers to the super wealthy elite disguised as weapons systems?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/11792305

The U.S. military is the biggest corporate welfare scheme in human history.

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Response to earthside (Reply #6)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 12:24 PM

14. Only HALF?

At BEST, we ONE multi-services base in Europe - and one such in the western Pacific. ALL those bases we DO have and we got snookered on 9/11. It hurts my head to try and comprehend the WASTE we've had to pay for since WWII!

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Response to Plucketeer (Reply #14)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 01:16 PM

24. I said "To start ..."

I agree with you.

But I could be reasonable and accept a phased closing of overseas bases ... maybe within a three to five year range.

For instance, the U.S. has no business having a base in Bulgaria and what, 50,000+ troops still in Europe?

To start ... you could cut the Pentagon budget by 50 percent and still have by far enough military power to very adequately defend the United States of America.

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Response to earthside (Reply #24)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 02:17 PM

33. I wasn't raggin' on you

We very obviously share the same thinking. We need to START reeling in the ridiculous outlays for military crap and use some of those funds here at home!

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 12:04 PM

2. Sounds like they are starting to get it.

It's their choice, people or weapons development and procurement programs.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 12:08 PM

7. Whiney RepubiBrass does not become itself

...in any dignfied way. Americans have had enuf of Republican whining to last another millennium, whether arising from the Armed Forces or the Republican Propaganda Brigade of overpaid chicken hawks, like Rush, O'Reilly, Hannity, Cruz, and Beck.

Stop the whining.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 12:09 PM

8. Not all -- just stop paying Blackwater

and giving bonuses to the defense contractors. Better yet, nationalize the defense contractors and Blackwaters.


rocktivity

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 12:11 PM

9. Those pathetic losers have lost 2 wars in little more than 10 years and they're

 

pissing and moaning? They lost two wars to rag-tab bodies of irregular forces, for fuck's sake.

Fuck them, they can't defend jack shit.

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Response to coalition_unwilling (Reply #9)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 12:15 PM

12. "defend"? n/t

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #12)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 12:34 PM

18. Exactly! It IS the WAR DEPT.

1st- stop purchasing new WMD's
2nd- ditch "defense contractors", our soldiers always built what they needed and fed themselves
3rd- close foreign bases
4th- consider a 2 year draft. No deferments except for the proven disabled (ask SS)
5th- leave sovereign nations alone, most people have NO IDEA how many covert service people that we have infiltrating and killing others
6th- pass the savings on to the needy.

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Response to dotymed (Reply #18)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 01:05 PM

23. Ixnay on the aftdray

not only is it immoral, I don't see how it saves the Pentagon much money besides recruiter's salaries.

Otherwise, great suggestions.

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Response to KamaAina (Reply #23)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 01:34 PM

28. laughed till I started coughing.

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Response to KamaAina (Reply #23)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 07:50 AM

39. The only reason that I consider having a draft

is that if the corporatist' know that their child would be forced to fight in their war for profit (empire), there wouldn't be any. Maybe wars to actually defend ourselves. My Son wants to join the Marines. He knows that with the price of tuition, he could save us both a lot of money. I do not want my Son to be cannon fodder, especially for these never ending wars for greed. I think the chicken hawks might feel the same way, even though money is no object for them. Thus the no deferment rule..."w" is a perfect example of deferments for the wealthy.

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Response to dotymed (Reply #39)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 12:18 PM

41. Cheney is an even better one

Pity, now that we know what a good shot he is.

But even when Dumbya was in, he was in the Texas Air National Guard, "training" on a plane that would soon be obsolete and would never be used in the 'Nam. Then he somehow managed to get himself transferred to a unit in Alabama, either (depending on reports) to work on a repuke campaign there, or to sidestep drug testing.

So even if the corporatists' sons and daughters were in uniform, they still wouldn't be cannon fodder.

Alternatives to the Marines: AmeriCorps, maybe?

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 12:12 PM

10. Good. Maybe we can stop fighting bullshit wars now. n/t

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 12:14 PM

11. Retirment community: Medicare and SS cuts will kill us. n/t

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 12:17 PM

13. If "The problem is spending..."

"The solution begins with Pentagon budget cuts.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 12:25 PM

15. Hollowed Out military...

Y'mean like one that doesn't protect visiting diplomats but hires contractors to do it? Or a military that doesn't build its own barracks or do its own KP duty?

We'd better keep building weapons to fight the USSR then!

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)


Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 12:30 PM

17. Crocodile tears.

End the wars, and those cuts don't pinch you at all.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 12:46 PM

19. Never an exit-strategy....

...ever. They invade other countries and call it a war, with no way to pay for it. Charge it. Pass the buck on to the next President on down the line. They build all these nukes and weapons of mass destruction over the decades, but never have a way to do away with them when they are not needed anymore. The MIC has choked this country to death. We're all but dead now. We have no more money for this mocho military anymore. Really, what are they going to do now? This country has been down-sized down to nothing. It's about time we down-fucking-sized our military.

It's about time we stopped glorifying killing. The killing has to stop. On the battlefields that they create all over the world and on our streets here at home. Fuck the killing machine. HOLLOW IT OUT NOW!!~!!!

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 12:53 PM

20. There are no defense "cuts"

Only slowing the growth of already large projected spending increases.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 12:55 PM

21. The only thing I would really be concerned about

is that amount of civilian jobs thhis could effect. Other than that I could care less if the military gets cut.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 12:55 PM

22. ...


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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 01:21 PM

25. How about using the military only is we need to defend our country and not to offend other countries

by illegally invading them and slaughtering their people.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 01:25 PM

26. So what's the downside? nt

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 01:29 PM

27. So the fuck what? I don't get it.

According to this:

http://comptroller.defense.gov/defbudget/fy2013/FY2013_Budget_Request_Overview_Book.pdf

The budget is $614B for 2013. Seven percent is about $43B.

For a mere $43B cut out of a $614B they have to furlough 800k people and idle half of the Navy?

Both in my personal budget and at work I have to cope with 5-10% spending reductions all the time. It's painful, but not a deal breaker.

I wish I understood how these budgets work.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 01:38 PM

29. Good.

Keep enough of a blue water navy to keep the shipping lanes open. Close most of the bases overseas. Free Puerto Rico.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 01:39 PM

30. cannot stop that war machine cash

better to threaten the security of the nation's workers and elderly

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 02:03 PM

31. I can see the face, but can't remember the name of an instructor at NCO Academy over 20 years ago.

A guy who managed very intelligently and yet passionately to communicate about the differences between enlisted leadership that leads by-the-book AND from dedication to the enlisted service itself, compared to "leadership" that was on its way some place else, which leads by-the-book for career ambitions. It felt very much as though the instructor was talking straight to each person in the class and, from preceding discussion answers to NCO work environment case studies, it was pretty clear to many of us who amongst us was on which path.

Consider decades, more that 2 really, even since the end of WWII when there would have been a perceived need for MIC to be proactive in defense of itself during peace times . . . consider decades of people climbing command structures and networking almost exclusively with others, military and civilian, whose jobs have become a means and ends unto themselves on a blank check, as the invasion and occupation of an INNOCENT nation known as Iraq so clearly demonstrates, written with the blood of our own assigned to die if necessary and with the blood and opportunities of the American tax payer.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 02:11 PM

32. Really

I know it is terribly disappointing to only be able to destroy all humanity 25 times over rather than 30, but I do hope they will soldier on regardless.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 02:24 PM

34. Leaving them as hollow as the US middle class,

whose money they've been scarfing up for 40 years.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 02:52 PM

35. Isn't the word "bloated" synonymous with "hollow"?

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 03:15 PM

36. ... and that would be a problem, why, exactly?

As long as the servicemen & women continue to get paid & have their supplies, I'm good with hollowing out the rest of the military.

Maybe the rest of the world will stop hating us so much.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 03:36 PM

37. I can only hope ...

... but somehow I doubt the MIC is going to allow itself to be "hollowed".

I don't think these same military leaders are concerned about Medicare/Medicaid being hollowed out. They got their sweet military health coverage, heavily subsidized, for life.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 05:45 PM

38. kick $40 Billion per month in Afghanistan ...

 

Yesterday Obama OKed $365 Million in aid to Syria... no discussion, no strings attached... instant gift to Syria.

But if anyone even mentions a microscopic heating subsidy for Senior Citizens... my god... it triggers a full-scale filibuster and months of hearings.

Bottom line: Bring our troops home and re-build America first.

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Response to DonViejo (Original post)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 12:00 PM

40. We are the hollow men

We are the hollow men
We are the stuffed men
Leaning together
Headpiece filled with straw."

T.S. Eliot

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Response to Blandocyte (Reply #40)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 12:41 PM

42. Profound. Absolutely. Profound.

Thank you, Blandocyte. Perhaps unintentionally, the war machine has helped run the USA into the dirt since the day FDR passed.

A handy essay by Gary G. Kohls, MD:

The Choice of Guns over Butter

PS: Thanks to your inspiration, T.S. Eliot left a lot of stuff to think about with Cat Woman:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2295341

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