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Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:05 AM

15-year-old girl who performed at Obama inauguration gunned down in Chicago

Source: raw Story



A 15-year-old girl was killed on the South Side of Chicago on Tuesday, just a week after she performed at President Barack Obama’s inauguration.

Hadiya Pendleton was hanging out at Vivian Gordon Harsh Park near her high school at around 2:30 p.m., “when someone jumped a fence, ran up to them, and opened fire,” according to WBBM-TV.

Pendleton was taken to University of Chicago Comer Children’s Hospital where she died an hour later from a gunshot wound to her back. A 16-year-old boy was also wounded in the attack.



Raw Story (http://s.tt/1z9dj)

Read more: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/01/30/15-year-old-girl-who-performed-at-obama-inauguration-gunned-down-in-chicago/



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Reply 15-year-old girl who performed at Obama inauguration gunned down in Chicago (Original post)
Ichingcarpenter Jan 2013 OP
CBGLuthier Jan 2013 #1
Walk away Jan 2013 #6
slackmaster Jan 2013 #16
Puzzledtraveller Jan 2013 #24
Walk away Jan 2013 #32
MynameisBlarney Jan 2013 #46
Maeve Jan 2013 #47
Walk away Jan 2013 #65
Maeve Jan 2013 #85
slackmaster Jan 2013 #116
Walk away Jan 2013 #139
WHEN CRABS ROAR Jan 2013 #173
BainsBane Feb 2013 #246
LanternWaste Jan 2013 #75
caseymoz Jan 2013 #122
BainsBane Jan 2013 #232
Walk away Feb 2013 #243
nick of time Jan 2013 #19
caseymoz Jan 2013 #141
nick of time Jan 2013 #142
caseymoz Jan 2013 #151
dorksied Jan 2013 #226
greiner3 Jan 2013 #170
nick of time Jan 2013 #172
whistler162 Jan 2013 #21
MynameisBlarney Jan 2013 #23
Eleanors38 Jan 2013 #33
Eleanors38 Jan 2013 #28
Zoeisright Jan 2013 #98
Eleanors38 Jan 2013 #114
dorksied Jan 2013 #227
Eleanors38 Jan 2013 #237
Papagoose Jan 2013 #30
Bonduel Jan 2013 #64
Skittles Jan 2013 #230
dkf Jan 2013 #71
LanternWaste Jan 2013 #87
dkf Jan 2013 #157
WHEN CRABS ROAR Jan 2013 #179
dkf Jan 2013 #180
Blandocyte Jan 2013 #76
guardian Jan 2013 #156
Blandocyte Jan 2013 #159
AverageJoe90 Jan 2013 #161
BudHardener Jan 2013 #181
Glassunion Jan 2013 #197
BudHardener Jan 2013 #200
Glassunion Jan 2013 #202
dreamnightwind Jan 2013 #207
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dreamnightwind Jan 2013 #225
BudHardener Jan 2013 #208
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Walk away Feb 2013 #244
patrice Jan 2013 #166
davidthegnome Jan 2013 #239
ellie Jan 2013 #43
SylviaD Jan 2013 #66
nick of time Jan 2013 #81
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Zoeisright Jan 2013 #96
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nick of time Jan 2013 #136
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caseymoz Jan 2013 #146
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harrose Jan 2013 #131
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harrose Jan 2013 #135
nick of time Jan 2013 #138
harrose Jan 2013 #143
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Beacool Jan 2013 #215
hue Jan 2013 #124
samsingh Jan 2013 #128
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nick of time Jan 2013 #144
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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:08 AM

1. Repeal the second amendment NOW

Useless shit from a bye gone age. Get the fuck rid of it.

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Response to CBGLuthier (Reply #1)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:12 AM

6. Yes to this^^^^^^Every person who owns a gun owns this girls death!

Every gun owner should get in line and put their child on that street corner, walk away and leave them there. Then go home and kiss your fucking gun goodnight.

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Response to Walk away (Reply #6)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:18 AM

16. Writers who abuse hyperbole deserve to be taken out and shot.

 

Last edited Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:54 AM - Edit history (1)



For those who don't understand the concept of hyperbole, please look it up.

This post is

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #16)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:25 AM

24. No, put them on the confiscation team.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #16)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:32 AM

32. Lots of responses from the Gun Lobby. Even one that wants to shoot me!

What a shock.

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Response to Walk away (Reply #32)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:42 AM

46. Honestly

There's no way in hell that all guns are gonna get confiscated without yet more gun violence.
A compromise is going to be reached.
Both sides will be unhappy with it.
I think that certain guns should be absolutely inaccessible to civilians, but civilians should be able to own firearms IF they pass a stringent battery of tests.

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Response to Walk away (Reply #32)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:42 AM

47. Please look up the word 'hyperbole' eom

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Response to Maeve (Reply #47)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 12:06 PM

65. Since I don't own or advocate the use of guns....

I won't reply to you in the same way that poster replied to me. I know what the word means and I know that the Gungeon denizen who commented that I should be taken out and shot for using it, probably owns a gun and possibly wishes he could use it.

There is never an appropriate time to imply someone should be shot. I am not surprised that he and you don't get that.

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Response to Walk away (Reply #65)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 12:33 PM

85. And now I'm sorry I voted to let your post stand eom

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Response to Walk away (Reply #65)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 01:32 PM

116. So, you ADMIT that reply #6 was an abuse of hyperbole.

 

As my dad used to day, it's amazing what some people will volunteer for.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #116)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 02:11 PM

139. Not at all. Every gun owner has done his or her part in supporting and contributing to....

the industry that created this monster. Every bullet you buy is an endorsement of the gun industry and their lobbyist the NRA. Where do you thing these companies get their power from? It's out of the pockets of the people who buy their product. They are using your money right now...today...to send their goons to Washington to fight against even the most mild restrictions in gun ownership.

They aren't doing it with my money.

Sometime people have to buy necessities like gas and food from unsavory actors. We can only try to get what we need without hurting others by being selective. No one needs a gun unless they are police, military or in legitimate security. Everyone else is paying for the NRA and gun companies to let this insanity continue.

Is this HYPERBOLIC? I don't think so but you folks are welcome to take this post to the jury and have it blocked if it makes you feel right.

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Response to Walk away (Reply #139)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 04:12 PM

173. The fact is, that every time you spend a dollar, you vote with that dollar.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #116)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 02:25 PM

246. while you responded by making a death threat

But this makes it okay.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #16)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 12:21 PM

75. Same to those who believe a non-consequential and visceral reaction is part and parcel...

Same to those who believe a non-consequential and visceral reaction is part and parcel of that person's actual belief system.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #16)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 01:45 PM

122. Tasteless.


Not to mention a cliche, especially over gun issues.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #16)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 05:10 AM

232. interesting what outages you

and it's not dead children. Hardly a shock.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #232)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 10:02 AM

243. Sad.

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Response to Walk away (Reply #6)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:21 AM

19. No^^^^^^to this.

 

I own firearms and I am in no way even remotely responsible for what happened to this beautiful girl.

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Response to nick of time (Reply #19)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 02:16 PM

141. What you own is irrelevant to a Constitutional argument.


The Second Amendment is beginning to look like the Framers second biggest error after slavery. It's not effective in resisting tyranny. No uprising is going to stand against the US military. You're AK-47 isn't going to stop that drone from putting a missile between your eyes.

The Arab Spring tells you that you don't need to start with a heavily armed civilian population to resist. In fact, in Libya, having so many people armed after the revolution has been an impairment in establishing a new, effective government. What appears to be important in an uprising is information, not firearms. The Internet brought about the Arab Spring and kept it going. In other words, the First, not the Second Amendment protects us more.

For self-defense, statistically, you're several times more likely to die of a gunshot wound if you live in a house with a firearm, and you're more likely to commit suicide.

The proposed solution to gun violence is more guns. As though firearms have to reach a critical mass before the Second Amendment works the way it should? That proportion is somewhere above a 1:1 gun-to-person ratio we have. Yes, I'm certain the Founders wrote that very thing when they formulated the Second Amendment, and recommended that people have at least one musket per hand. I'm also certain they anticipated the exact problems private gun ownership is causing when they concocted the right to keep and bear arms.

In other words, guns don't perform the function they're purportedly meant to, neither as an impediment to tyranny nor as a means of self-defense. (Not that they can't in all cases, just statistically speaking, they don't.) Historically, tyrannies like the Nazis did not confiscate or illegalize guns for the general population. In fact, the Nazis expanded gun ownership.

The Second Amendment needs to be reconsidered, whether you're personally attached to your guns or not.



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Response to caseymoz (Reply #141)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 02:20 PM

142. Huh?

 

I said that in no way am I, as a gun owner, responsible for this girls death like the the poster said.
WTF does your post have to do with what I said?

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Response to nick of time (Reply #142)


Response to nick of time (Reply #142)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 01:40 AM

226. Every dollar you spend is a vote for the world you want to live in. So, being a gun owner...

puts you voting for a world with guns, gun violence, and senseless killings of kids. The money you spent is used to fund the gun lobbyists who buy our politics and keep this endless cycle of death going, all in the name of profit for gun manufacturers.

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Response to nick of time (Reply #19)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 03:58 PM

170. I see you have enjoyed your stay;

So far.

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Response to greiner3 (Reply #170)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 04:00 PM

172. So far, yes.

 

Why do you ask?

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Response to Walk away (Reply #6)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:24 AM

21. Your post is one of the reasons that sensible

gun laws will never happen. But, that maybe what you want!

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Response to Walk away (Reply #6)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:24 AM

23. That's a bit over the top

I think.

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Response to MynameisBlarney (Reply #23)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:32 AM

33. Yeah, but try alerting on it.

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Response to Walk away (Reply #6)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:28 AM

28. Hate much? Are you a liberal with a free pass to hate?

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Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #28)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 12:54 PM

98. Grow up.

True liberals are incensed over this stupidity that gun humpers have wrought. (I know that's a big word - you'll probably have to look it up.)

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Response to Zoeisright (Reply #98)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 01:29 PM

114. If growing up is to approximate your status, I'll stick with my condition.

You seem very caught up with your DU-sanctified sexual metaphors. You might wish to re-consider what you think is "groin up."

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Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #114)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 01:43 AM

227. While his post was somewhat juvenile, I support his position. Guns are a disease.

And people who support guns are carriers.

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Response to dorksied (Reply #227)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 09:47 AM

237. Just another opinion.nt

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Response to Walk away (Reply #6)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:29 AM

30. I own her death?

Really? My small gauge shotgun locked away safely in the back of my closet makes me culpable in this crime?

Talk like that makes people flee to the "other side".

Way to go.

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Response to Walk away (Reply #6)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 12:05 PM

64. I guess I'm responsible for every person killed by a drunk driver

 

because I have a bottle of whiskey in my house.

I own guns and am not remotely responsible for this girls tragic murder.

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Response to Bonduel (Reply #64)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 04:51 AM

230. coming out of the woodwork now

the light must be shining HARD

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Response to Walk away (Reply #6)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 12:16 PM

71. Or maybe it's your fault for living in a country with a 2nd amendment.

 

Blame blame blame...

Chicago needs a huge crackdown on their gangs. Once we see enough arrests maybe the violence will stop.

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Response to dkf (Reply #71)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 12:37 PM

87. One may only imagine then the area surrounding Sandy Hook ES was rampant with gang problems...

"Once we see enough arrests maybe the violence will stop...."

One may only imagine then the area surrounding Sandy Hook ES was rampant with gang problems...

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #87)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 03:10 PM

157. That one was not fixable unless someone who knew him turned him in as a threat.

 

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Response to dkf (Reply #71)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 04:43 PM

179. Fact is, if the gangs were operating out in the open, in a upper class white area,

they would have been stomped out a long time ago.

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Response to WHEN CRABS ROAR (Reply #179)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 04:48 PM

180. I bet that is true.

 

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Response to Walk away (Reply #6)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 12:22 PM

76. This ^^^^^ strikes me as illogical

Please explain the rationale and make the case for how my gun owning grandfather owns that girl's death.

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Response to Walk away (Reply #6)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 03:01 PM

156. No. Everyone who smokes pot owns this girl's death

 

Most of the gun deaths in Chicago are due to drug gangs. Even the news story for this event indicated gang activity. If people would not do illegal drugs then the drug gangs would cease to flourish.

Every pot smoker should get in line and put their child on that street corner, walk away and leave them there. Then go home and kiss your fucking bong goodnight.

One hyperbole deserves another.

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Response to guardian (Reply #156)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 03:21 PM

159. For real, but the pot smokers will need to take a break from

owning all the violence along the border to be able to own the girl's death, too. Greedy bastards owning everything, anyway.

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Response to guardian (Reply #156)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 03:28 PM

161. Sadly, you do have a point.

I am ALL for reasonable regulations on guns, TBH. In fact, I'd be perfectly okay with a ban on factory-direct full-auto assault weapons as well as more limited capacity on semi-auto weapons.....but blaming ALL gun owners for the tragic death of this one girl is simply going way too far; and in fact I'll go a step further and say that it makes us all look bad and gives ammo to the very forces who oppose us, especially the NRA and such.

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Response to guardian (Reply #156)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 04:49 PM

181. It ain't Chronic in those chambers

We need to share a fatty and talk about your attitude towards victimless crime. If drugs were legal there would be no turf wars over them.
To confuse pot smokers with crankers, tweekers, basers, firers, junkies, coke flunkies and Kroc rotters is absurd. The reason pot isn't the general center of drug crime is that it's bulky. Here in medical marijuana country the cost of pot has gone down from $320 an ounce in 2000 to less than $150 today (check Craigslist in Oregon under health and beauty).

The first thing I want when I'm stoned is a Twinkie, not an AK.

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Response to BudHardener (Reply #181)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 07:05 PM

197. You are confusing the issue.

You are correct "it aint the chronic in those chambers", however would that chamber had been loaded in the first place if there was no market for illegal drugs?

The illegal drug market for MJ alone is between $35 and $45 billion dollars a year in the US (How big is the marijuana market). That is a lot of easy money. The distribution networks across the entire country are run, maintained, and operated by primarilly gangs. In the US today there are an estemated 1.5 million gang members spread throughout every state and community.

The pot smoker is no less or more responsible for the violence in our nation than gun owners.

A pot smoker who buys an ounce from a dealer has directly and willfully contributed to a network of violence that is responsible for up to 80% of crime in the US.

That dealer buys from a supplier, that supplier buys from a distributor, that distributor buys from a producer. Every single one of these steps throughout the process is illegal throguhout the vast majority of the US. So basically you have a network of criminals, who want to make lots of easy money distributing their product for cash.

If one dealer has a problem with another dealer trying to take away his customers, they cannot up their advertizing costs, they cannot do a market study, they cannot put together a focus group. They take care of the other dealer through violence. If a customer steals from a dealer, the dealer cannot call the police, they cannot file a claim in court, they deal with it through violence. If a supplier is not making sales because another supplier is moving in on their network, again, they resort to violence.

The problem is that the statement that pot is not a "victimless crime" is not 100% accurate. The simple "illegal" purchase of pot: fuels, funds, and promotes gang violence in this country.

You state that "The reason pot isn't the general center of drug crime is that it's bulky.", this is not an accurate statement. Pot is the #1 illegally traded and consumed drug in this nation.
Annual Prevelance in the US
Opioids - 5.90
Opiates - 0.57
Cocaine - 2.40
Cannabis - 13.70
Amphetamines - 1.50
Ecstasy - 1.4

Directly because of the violence that the trade in illegal drugs brings is why I do not smoke pot. This is why I want ALL drugs to be legal. The war on drugs in this country is a complete failure.

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Response to Glassunion (Reply #197)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 07:43 PM

200. Agree with the last bit, only...

have you ever bought a diamond? Bought one for my gal for x-mas even though I know the violence associated with 'em (yeah, shame on me)
Yep, drug laws gotta go.
I do take exception to your chain of command of responsibility. I smoke pot and do not accept responsibility for some inner city yahoo with a pea shooter and a head full of meth or pcp or banana peels. Likewise, I like an occasional Big Mac but don't take responsibility for two-ton Bert and Bertha or Ron Jeremy's cardiac condition.

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Response to BudHardener (Reply #200)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 08:08 PM

202. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

You state that you bought a diamond, even knowing the violence associated with it. Seriously WTF? You personally paid money into a violent system that will directly promote and fuel that violent system.

Yes I have bought a diamond. This was many many moons ago before I was aware of the blood and violence involved in bringing me that diamond. Will I today spend my money on another? Hell no I will not. How could I directly put money into such a deplorable industry that will in turn fan the flames of more violence? If people stopped buying the damn things the result would be that the violence would stop.

I do not buy pot, not because it is illegal, but because of the blood that was spilled to bring it to me.

If you turn a blind eye to the reality of why drug dealers, distributors, suppliers, and producers have guns, and commit acts of violence in the first place, you are simply deluding yourself.

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Response to Glassunion (Reply #202)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 08:32 PM

207. Not sure I agree with that

"I do not buy pot, not because it is illegal, but because of the blood that was spilled to bring it to me."

I think most pot sales do not involve product that comes from the cartels. Besides many people grow their own. And thirdly, even if you were to buy cartel product from a dealer (which I applaud you for not doing), I would think the blame would lie more on those who make it illegal in the first place, since it should not be.

The gun argument may actually be a better fit for this logic, since people don't make their own, there is an underground gun market that was not solved by the fact that guns are legal (criminals don't want to go through normal channels to buy their weapons), and there is a strong gun lobby that makes sure we don't have reasonable regulation and control of who has guns. Maybe a better argument along those lines would involve NRA membership rather than gun ownership, since the NRA is a large part of the gun lobby, but many if not most gun and ammo purchases probably do feed into the pro gun lobby, so there is some responsibility there.

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Response to dreamnightwind (Reply #207)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:50 PM

220. What you think, and what is reality differ from each other.

"I think most pot sales do not involve product that comes from the cartels." - 66% of all marijuana sold in the US comes from Mexico.

But it is not the cartels that I am referring to. I am referring to the 1.5 million people in the US who are members of a gang. Gangs are funded and fueled by the illegal trade in drugs. The #1 illegally traded drug in the US is marijuana.

Yes, folks do grow their own, however out of the millions of tons of pot that is smuggled into this country every year, there is a huge market for the product. To ignore that fact, one would be deluding themselves. Even domestically grown MJ has a direct impact on the violence in this nation. If pot is grown in quantity domestically and sold on the street there is a direct correlation to violence that stems from this trade.

If it is illegal to purchase pot in your state, and you purchase pot, you are directly contributing to the violence that occurs here.

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Response to Glassunion (Reply #220)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 01:30 AM

225. Sorry that's just ridiculous

You contributed to the violence only if your purchase is related to those violent elements. And in the post of yours that I originally responded to, you said the reason you wouldn't smoke it was you didn't want to contribute to that violence, which to me was an indictment on pot smokers as contributing to that violence, which in some cases would be true, others not. I would think mostly not. You threw out an unsourced 66% which may or may not have any relation to reality, I don't know how anyone could tabulate such stats since most such sales would never be seen. I don't care to get into an argument about more or less than half, I'm just supporting whatever percentage has no relation to that chain of violence you speak of, which is certainly significant and those people should not be tarnished as contributing to something to which they have absolutely no connection.

As I said above, the gun argument you made is more relevant, IMO. The pot issue struck me as a poor comparison, that's all, and it still does. Not that it really matters to the discussion of this OP.

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Response to Glassunion (Reply #202)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 08:35 PM

208. No blood spilled when ya grow your own meds

Yeah, the diamond... I know WTF??? X-mas+pawnshop+girlfriend=macho offering (I am weak and I have sinned)

Hey, I'm out of the drug loop. Home-made meds like home-made biz (I'm a contractor) remove me from the middleman syndrome. I take responsibility regarding this life and advise all to do likewise. I am far from deluded in supplying my own needs. Gonna brew beer this year for the same reason.
The criminality of drug use is perpetuated by governments for control of the populace. It is in the best interest of the monied powers that inner cities remain in fear and at war. By moving to Oregon from LA I've sought to minimize any connection to the horde.

I'm not an escapist, don't have a buried u-haul full of water bottles in the backyard and sleep just fine, thank ya.

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Response to BudHardener (Reply #208)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:54 PM

221. I never mentioned "grow your own".

If you purchase or have purchased pot, you have directly funded those that actually contribute to the violence in this country.

I have done it in the past. I have handed money to a pot dealer, who may have in turn killed someone to protect his corner, or turf, or whatever. I cannot live with that, so I stopped. I will not be directly responsible for the majority of the violence in this nation.

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Response to guardian (Reply #156)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 10:14 AM

244. The last I heard this poor child was shot by a bullet. Every single company that...

produces those bullets in this country PAYS the NRA with their customer's money to ensure these guns and bullets flood this country at an obscene rate. If you can't see the difference then I expect you will continue to pay the gun industry to promote things like "Stand Your Ground" and no background checks. I am sure they are happy for your support!

Blaming the NRA is just a cover.

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Response to Walk away (Reply #6)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 03:39 PM

166. +1

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Response to Walk away (Reply #6)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 10:38 AM

239. Laying blame on the innocent is a despicable guilt tactic

While I believe that we could certainly use some strong gun control laws, the idea that *everyone* who owns a gun is responsible for this girl's death is bizarre. The person responsible for the girls death is the one that frigging shot her. You may despise guns, you may fear them, you may believe that the second amendment is outdated, or whatever. None of that gives you the right to blame the innocent though. And yes, most gun owners are innocent of doing anything wrong or even illegal.

Like I said, I support gun control, but these hyperbolic tactics are extremely ignorant. You're using generalizations - a very broad brush, this is one of the very last places we should use such things.

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Response to CBGLuthier (Reply #1)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:41 AM

43. Thank you

This gun violence is insane.

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Response to CBGLuthier (Reply #1)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 12:06 PM

66. REPEAL REPEAL REPEAL! Say it again and again.

Unfortunately, even here at DU it appears REPEALING is OFF THE TABLE.

Where have we heard that term before?!

When are we as Democrats going to STOP SETTLING? Stop choosing the EASY WAY OUT?

Those on the other side NEVER do that. And guess what? THEY ARE WINNING.

Sorry for the caps, but I am so angry.

At least here, on DU, I want the meme to be REPEAL REPEAL REPEAL.

This is the way we WIN. Because they are WRONG and I'm not SETTLING anymore!!!!!

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Response to SylviaD (Reply #66)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 12:26 PM

81. You say repeal,

 

but how will you get it done? It takes only 13 states refusing to ratify a repeal to defeat it.

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Response to SylviaD (Reply #66)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 12:27 PM

82. Repeal the 2nd Amendment?

Pretty sure that would start another civil war.


And no, they are NOT winning.
They were for a while, but they are losing ground by the second.


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Response to MynameisBlarney (Reply #82)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 12:53 PM

96. HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!

Yeah, gun humpers with their little Precious clutched in their greasy hands against the Marines. "Civil war" would be over in about two minutes. And the gun humpers would lose.

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Response to Zoeisright (Reply #96)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 01:00 PM

101. You are most likely correct.

That they would lose, but I don't know if it will happen that quickly.
It could turn out to be a lot messier than anyone thinks.

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Response to MynameisBlarney (Reply #101)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 01:59 PM

129. They'd be an insurgency

Sad to say.

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Response to Zoeisright (Reply #96)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 02:09 PM

136. You mean like Iraq and Afghanistan?

 

How well has that worked out?

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Response to Zoeisright (Reply #96)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 03:00 PM

155. Continually insulting one's opponents typically doesn't get one very far.

But I'm sure it feels good.

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Response to MynameisBlarney (Reply #82)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 01:00 PM

100. I'm not a gun owner or a fan of guns in general...

...but we have to keep in mind that when they say, "...from my cold, dead hands," an attempt to repeal the 2nd amendment is exactly what a lot of these people have been obsessing over and "preparing" for. It's absurd to assume that some (likely significant) portion of the gun owning public won't come unhinged and become violent in the face of any attempt to restrict/control all guns.

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Response to TroglodyteScholar (Reply #100)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 01:04 PM

105. Yup

They are definitely gearing up for something.

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Response to MynameisBlarney (Reply #82)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 02:37 PM

146. I thought the purpose of guns were to protect you.

If people are dying only to protect their guns, they've gone insane.

Most of us aren't insane. On some level, they'll figure out it defeats the purpose of having a gun if you die to keep it. When a cops have people at gunpoint and say, "Drop it," there aren't too many who don't.

Therefore, I don't think people are going to go into general civil war to for their guns. I think pro-gunners have wrapped themselves in a fantasy world. If the reality of actually dying for it becomes salient, they'll leave the few LaPierres to draw the drone missiles away from them while they themselves drop their rifles in the field and go home.

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Response to caseymoz (Reply #146)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 02:56 PM

153. That is the most likely outcome.

Pretty sure 99% of these unreasonable gun fanatics (which, I think is a relatively small percentage of people that own guns) are just paper tigers.

But there are some folks that have been living that "life" since the day they were born. The ones that served in the military, the ones that are trained. Even some of the weekend warriors in the Natl. Guard might betray their country and try to play Rambo with their militia buddies.
Those are going to be the ones holed up in the hills and deserts, holding out until their self-fulfilled prophecy comes to be.




On a side note.
Remember all the "Zombie Apocalypse" training lately by various armed groups, including our govt. and at least one militia I know of.
Makes me wonder what they're REALLY training for, since zombies don't exist.

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Response to MynameisBlarney (Reply #153)

Fri Feb 1, 2013, 12:41 PM

245. All I could say is . . .


. . . the misery will be theirs. We could just hope they don't share much of it on their way down.

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Response to SylviaD (Reply #66)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 12:32 PM

84. Please name 38 states whose legislatures could be persuaded to agree

 

If you can't, then it's a dead issue.

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Response to CBGLuthier (Reply #1)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 12:52 PM

95. Fucking A.

I am sick to death of fucking gun humpers and the insanity they have unleashed in this country. Burn in hell, all of you.

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Response to Zoeisright (Reply #95)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 01:19 PM

113. Gun Humpers

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Response to CBGLuthier (Reply #1)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 01:43 PM

119. Absolutely -Society Should Not Be Held Hostage By Fear

eom

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Response to CBGLuthier (Reply #1)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 04:36 PM

178. Ain't gonna happen and here is why..

1. Probably the only bizness that is making money during a recession. Gun money has bought enough politicians to derail any legislation to limit dollars leaving their pockets (gun makers and pols).

2. State of Fear. The media's (bought and paid for) use of hyperbole to foment outrage is really a spur to create more gun sales.

3. State of Fear2. The average American is not an educated Metrosexual. These are people who still think the British are coming over the hill, Indians will attack come nightfall and Al-Queda is having a little nap between planes.

4. Can I mention money twice???

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Response to CBGLuthier (Reply #1)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 04:54 PM

183. No need to repeal. Just do away with the creative interpretation of it.

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Response to CBGLuthier (Reply #1)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 05:36 PM

192. That would REALLY show those drug gangs who's boss.

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Response to CBGLuthier (Reply #1)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 08:16 PM

206. The city of Chicago already has super-strict gun-control

 

Repealing would not have helped in this case.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:08 AM

2. I'm at a lack of words for this one, sooo totally F'en senseless. n/t

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:09 AM

3. Incredibly sad. It wouldn't be surprising to learn she was targeted because she

performed at the inauguration--perversely those who achieve often get targeted by gangs etc.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #3)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:16 AM

13. It wouldn't surprise me to learn she was targeted by a gun nut

because she performed at the inauguration. Or someone was contracted target her and make it look like gang shooting.

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Response to intheflow (Reply #13)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:25 AM

25. Seriously?

Why?

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Response to intheflow (Reply #13)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:28 AM

29. you're serious?

Of all the targets some enraged "gun nut" could take out, this girl, okay.

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Response to intheflow (Reply #13)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:32 AM

34. Really?

 

You're saying this might have been political hit? For what purpose? Because she performed at the Inauguration?
I think the CT forum is down the hall.

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Response to intheflow (Reply #13)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 11:13 AM

240. That's just plain wacky n/t

 

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #3)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:16 AM

14. Doubtful, though possible

Wrong place, wrong time most likely.
Either way, it really underscores the need for action on the gun issue immediately.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #3)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:29 AM

31. It's my belief that this poor girl was killed for the very reason you state.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #3)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 12:25 PM

79. Nope. She was just one person amongst many in one of those marching bands.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #3)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 05:03 PM

185. Guns and esteem issues

It's all about perceptions of power. Some little shit with no life had to take down the kid that makes it.

It's like owning a "vette cuz the pleasure pickle's a mini jerkin.

Ohhhh, see me, fear me, I have a gun.
That lesson is instilled in us by history books, military advertisements (Be all that you can be), television, movies, books and games.

Wanna cut violence in inner cities? Create jobs, education and paths to success. But the money guys in this country don't want you to succeed. They want you under the thumb and thug-lite is replaying that. More guns will be sold.

Only once we evolve as a species will the violence stop. Only once we remove money as the power equator will the violence stop.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:11 AM

4. Chicago has more than its share of fucked up, violent people for some reason

 

I read a couple of days ago that the city had already hit 40 murders, and January isn't even over yet.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #4)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:26 AM

26. It is predominantly due to the resurgence of gangs

and gang wars. It's a horrid problem, and it's taking down too many innocent children in the process. It may seem far away from many of us, but it touches us all, for these are all OUR kids. It touched us even personally a few years ago. My husband had a teaching assistant assigned to his class whom he liked enormously, an extremely dedicated and intelligent young African American graduate student. One day she called to say she suddenly couldn't be at class: her young 13-year-old cousin had been killed while driving home with an older brother and younger sister from a basketball game. As the shooters opened fire on their car, he threw himself over his little sister and was killed. We were devastated, shocked, and ... helpless.

To get a better understanding of retaliation killings and what people are trying to do about it, watch The Interrupters, the 2011 documentary from Kartemquin Films and the people who produced Hoop Dreams.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/interrupters/

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Response to frazzled (Reply #26)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:57 AM

54. lead poisoning leads to lead flying

leaded gasoline fumes spewed through poor neighborhoods from expressways run through poor neighborhoods.

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Response to mopinko (Reply #54)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 12:15 PM

70. Leaded gasoline fumes?

Where does all this leaded gasoline come from? A time portal from 1978? There hasn't been leaded gasoline since cars started coming with catalytic converters.

The main source of lead exposure in poor neighborhoods is pre-1980s lead paint that for whatever reason still hasn't been removed.

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Response to KamaAina (Reply #70)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 04:31 PM

176. that lead is still everywhere. and that is just about right. gang leaders are in their 30's and 40's

Now, researchers say they may have found the perfect scapegoat for violent crime: leaded gasoline.
A new study has revealed that the rise and fall of leaded gasoline strongly correlates with the pattern of violent crime rates in America.

Read more at http://www.medicaldaily.com/articles/13789/20130107/leaded-gasoline-linked-rise-fall-violent-crime.htm#fCAMzvtb2oEHhhGc.99

lead poisoning remains a serious problem here.

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Response to mopinko (Reply #176)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 04:33 PM

177. So violent crime should be on the way out soon

I'm not holding my breath.

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Response to KamaAina (Reply #177)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 05:01 PM

184. statistics say it is.

the prison population is dropping.

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Response to mopinko (Reply #184)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 05:32 PM

189. Prisons are bursting at the seams

new privatized ones are being built all the time.

Of course, that's probably due to the War on Some Drugs rather than violent crime.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #4)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:27 AM

27. Many of our large cities, and small ones, have problems with gang violence.

City gangs have been a problem for ages.

It seems that no one really knows what to do to stop gang violence.

I feel very, very sorry for this girl, her family and her friends.

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Response to amandabeech (Reply #27)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 12:00 PM

58. Change the economic cliamate and...



Make every opportunity for gang members to to be come ex-gang members.

If there were more jobs that paid more $$$ gang numbers would be reduced. They are in gangs because they feel there is no hope and this is the climax of their expectation of power. Change their social economic situation and you reduce not eliminate the problem.

As long as this country continues to boil down peoples ability to make it and as long as it is a constant struggle to get simple things there will always be GANGS..

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Response to rsmith6621 (Reply #58)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 12:04 PM

63. Haven't we had gangs since revolutionary times?

There seems to be so little collective will to do anything about them. Maybe too many fat cats on Wall Street would complain that their pockets were being picked.

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Response to derby378 (Reply #63)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 12:13 PM

68. Remember "Gangs of New York?"

That was set in the 1860s, but the gang problem predates the movie.

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Response to amandabeech (Reply #68)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 06:17 AM

233. Never mind the 19th century, the Romans had street gangs. (nt)

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Response to derby378 (Reply #63)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 05:12 PM

186. Gangs since Neanderthal

We are a gang society. It's survival and it's always been with us. Consider Europe in the dark ages or Hitler's Brown shirts. A union is a gang. Association is a fancy word for gang. Corporations are gangs with money, their weapons aren't guns though, their weapons are laws and votes and they enforce their will with another gang....called the police.

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Response to BudHardener (Reply #186)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 05:16 PM

187. That's a bit of a strecth

Humans are social primates, but I use the term gang to refer to a loosely-organized criminal enterprise. I think most policement would be offended at being referred to as gangsters.

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Response to derby378 (Reply #187)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 05:34 PM

190. You mean Banks? Big Pharma? War in Iraq?

Here in Portland we have an activity called "Suicide by Cop" that is perpetrated by a group of armed men in colors, known to lie and prone to violence.
Sounds like gangsters to me.

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Response to derby378 (Reply #187)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 08:14 PM

205. It's a 'sense of belonging'. Most people thrive on being a part of something.

Watch the movie 'The Wave' (or read the book). People can be motivated to do all sorts of things just to belong.

That's why there are gangs.

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Response to rsmith6621 (Reply #58)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 12:17 PM

72. Lots more decent jobs would help so many problems,

but I've given up thinking that anything will be done.

Dem, Rep, Independent. It seems that the only thing that talks is money and the people in need of jobs don't have money.

I've given up on Obama doing anything to push manufacturing jobs, and those are the ones that pay decently for folks with a H.S. diploma or a C.C. or tech degree.

I am, however, bracing myself for the horror of the Trans Pacific Partnership. That will be the end of the U.S. that I knew as a kid back in the '60s.

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Response to rsmith6621 (Reply #58)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 10:09 PM

211. you're right but that also means change the drug laws

If these gangs weren't fighting over drug turf for their deals, gun deaths would decrease.

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Response to amandabeech (Reply #27)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 06:22 PM

194. How did New York do it? Copy their methods. New York is night and day from 1970s. nt

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #4)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:39 AM

41. and its still not the most

the city has seen before...
the number of homicides per 100,000 people a year has actually gone down since early 1990s..

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #4)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:54 AM

53. Chicago has had a long and sordid history of this since the St. Valentine's Day Massacre

There doesn't seem to be much collective will to actually fix the problem. And now that poor girl is dead.

I don't have any other words than to say I am just seriously depressed by this news. Senseless, brutal, stupid waste.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:11 AM

5. ...

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Response to ZombieHorde (Reply #5)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:13 AM

7. hit me the same way

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:14 AM

8. .

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:14 AM

9. Am I the only one who's tired of our impotence

in getting simple, common-sense fixes in place for the PTB-imposed insanity that's ensnared our country?

This is sad, and it's sick.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #9)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:16 AM

11. What's your "simple, common sense" fix for Chicago's long-standing problem with violent crime?

 

It seems like a lot of dedicated, intelligent people have tried to do something many times and failed.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #11)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:48 AM

50. Attack teachers unions under the fake pretext that there's a budget gap, then

go back to Wall Street for more millions more in pocket cash for a few month's work...

Sorry! That was Chicago's mayor typing, he grabbed hold of my keyboard while I was getting coffee.

First off, we need to stop economic war against the 99%. Those folks that are doing the shooting need a future to look forward to. Right now, they are feeling perma-fucked, and for good reason. Desperate situations make terrible behavior more likely.

Second, our burgeoning penal system, which focuses on making "we're tough on crime" political points and couldn't care less about actual rehabilitation, just makes the situation worse. It has become grad school for criminal studies instead of a way to return to life as a member of decent society.

Third, we need strong gun control all across America. States with stronger gun control have fewer gun deaths. I note that Illinois scores only 35% on the Brady scorecard, perhaps its time for the rest of the state to do the right thing.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #50)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:57 AM

55. We don't use the Brady scorecard - try DOJ/FBI statistics instead

The results might be the same either way, but there's less chance for bias in the results.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #50)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 12:03 PM

61. The "gun death" rate is not an accurate measure of how safe a place is. The overall murder rate is.

 

States with stronger gun control have fewer gun deaths.

That's generally true, but if murder rates were correlated with strong gun laws, California would be one of the safest states. But it's not - Our crime rates are nothing to brag about. Also, Vermont, New Hampshire, and Wyoming would be dangerous places.

The areas where crime rates are high are great distances from states that have looser gun laws, especially compared to East Coast locations with high crime rates. I think poverty rates and population density are better predictors of crime rates.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #61)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 12:22 PM

77. Washington State has far more lax laws than California.

Yet, below 2.5....

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #61)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 12:25 PM

80. Really?

"The areas where crime rates are high are great distances from states that have looser gun laws"
I see higher rates in Louisiana, Mississippi, Arizona and South Carolina than in New York, California, Massachusetts, etc... The only Midatlantic or New England state with a murder rate of 6.0 or higher is Delaware.
Tell me again about East Coast violence and looser gun laws. Last time I checked, Mississippi has some pretty lax laws.
Your comment about poverty rates might be a little more to the point, but your data belies the rest of your point.

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Response to eaglesfanintn (Reply #80)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 12:29 PM

83. You've indulged in a bit of cherry-picking, which is reasonable considering that I did as well.

 

Can we agree that focusing on "gun deaths" rather than the overall risk of becoming a murder victim is another kind of selective viewing of data?

Motor vehicle accidents pose a much greater risk to most of us than crime does. I was almost struck by two vehicles last night while crossing one street once. Fortunately I was able to alert both drivers to my presence by shining a 200 lumen flashlight in their faces. That and a knife are the only weapons I carry.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #83)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 12:35 PM

86. Sure

And, like I said, I agree that poverty rates are as much of a predictor as anything else. I'm not sure about pop. density - looking again at the South, I would need to see some of the states broken down individually. Is the rate higher in New Orleans than in the rest of Loiusiana? I would imagine so. Mississippi is not a densely populated state, but it is a poor one. I believe that they're at the top of the "taker" list (even though they vote Republicans in to national offices, have a Republican governor and, I believe, a Republican legislature). But, they're more concerned with making abortions illegal then fixing their economic woes.

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Response to eaglesfanintn (Reply #80)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 01:59 PM

130. I think that state is Maryland, not Delaware.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #61)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 01:04 PM

104. Excuse me. California is one of the low per-capita gun death rates states.

A San Francisco-based policy center on gun control laws has produced a report that says states with strict gun laws have the lowest gun-related death rates. In contrast, it reports, states with the highest per capita gun death rates have "weak" gun laws.

The study by the Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence is touted by Sen. Leland Yee (D-San Francisco) as support for his own legislation tightening California's current assault weapon ban. The bill, SB47, would prohibit semiautomatic weapons from having devices that allow them to carry high-capacity magazines or easily be reloaded with multiple rounds of ammunition. A similar version of the bill failed to pass in 2012.

. . . .
He failed to mention the law center also included California on its list of states with the strongest gun control laws and lowest gun-releated deaths. The center declares California has the toughest gun control laws in the nation and gives the state an "A minus" on its report card, a designation shared only with New Jersey and Massachussetts.

The highest per-capita gun death rates were in Alaska, Louisiana, Montana, Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, Wyoming, Tennessee, Alabama and Mississippi -- states that the law center said have weak gun control laws.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/california-politics/2013/01/tough-gun-control.html

One of Californians' New Years presents was a new set of gun laws. Read them here. Hopefully we will eventually have fewer guns on our crowded streets.

http://www.californiality.com/2012/04/new-california-gun-laws.html

I note that the chart is until 2010.

California's ever tightening gun laws have apparently worked. I'm no expert.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #104)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 01:07 PM

107. The map in my previous post shows that Califonria is not one of the lowest per-capita murder states

 

Senator Yee's stupid bill would make it illegal for certain rifles that already exist to have one of the most important safety features of any firearm - The ability to quickly unload the weapon without cycling unfired rounds through the chamber.

I don't really care about "gun death" rates. Focusing on just crimes committed with guns is a canard used by gun prohibitionists.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #107)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 08:11 PM

204. Gun deaths are the topic at issue.

Your map is old. The LA Times article is more recent. I also heard this news on the radio last week. California's tighter gun laws coincide with a reduction in gun deaths. As I understand it, in all but one neighborhood of LA, gun deaths have declined.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #204)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 02:03 AM

228. Overall murder rates peaked in California in 1993 and have generally been on a downward trend...

 

...since then.

The same is true for the USA in general.

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/cacrime.htm

There were no significant gun law changes at either the federal or state level that coincide with that time.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #50)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 12:03 PM

62. Besides failed economic policies...

...a failed drug policy is to blame. What do people think the gangs are fighting over?

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Response to Bay Boy (Reply #62)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 12:13 PM

69. Agreed. Nt

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Response to Bay Boy (Reply #62)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 01:06 PM

106. Agree!

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #11)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 12:07 PM

67. Here is how I'd handle it.

I would make every single gun transaction, public and private, require registration of the firearm to the owner. Then, if the firearm is used it the commission of a crime, be it by someone who had it legally or illegally, I would advocate that it be traced to the last person it was registered to and hold THEM partially accountable unless they can provide a police report saying the firearm was stolen.

I believe this would go a LONG way in making sure that less guns end up in the hands of criminals as the people selling them to, or buying them for, the gangs and criminals might think twice.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:15 AM

10. Terribly sad....and Wayne LaPierre is now testifying at the Senate Judiciary Committee hearing....

...I wonder what he would say if it was his daughter?

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Response to George II (Reply #10)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:43 AM

49. He would say.

I wish my daughter was packing.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:16 AM

12. MORE GUNS!!!

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:17 AM

15. Sounds like a gang hit,

 

but to what purpose?
Such a tragedy.

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Response to nick of time (Reply #15)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:33 AM

37. Sounds like somebody shot her.

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Response to Iggo (Reply #37)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:36 AM

38. That's what I meant.

 

It sounds like she may have been targeted, but why?

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Response to nick of time (Reply #15)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:36 AM

39. If you can't be somebody, get notoreity by killing someone of stature.

That's why pro athletes and rappers get targetted, for instance.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #39)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:38 AM

40. Now that makes sense,

 

in a perverted way.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #39)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 11:35 AM

242. This was not a person of stature

 

She was a regular kid whose band played at the inauguration. While that is quite an honor, I highly doubt that anybody around her felt that this elevated her to a different status.

And the thing about rappers and athletes doesn't make sense either. The killers of Tupac and Notorious B.I.G. have never come forward, so it's hard to argue that their goal was notoriety.

Actually, the Tupac murder was almost certainly the culmination of an ordinary street beef. His crew had fisticuffs with another crew, and members of the latter crew settled the score with a gun. Tupac himself admitted that he would probably die young because of his wild behavior.

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Response to nick of time (Reply #15)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 12:21 PM

74. Likely political, considering the state of the gun debate.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Reply #74)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 12:23 PM

78. Don't think so.

 

Chicago news station has said that she was hanging out with gang affliated people and was shot by a rival gang member.
It appears to be a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

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Response to nick of time (Reply #78)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 12:42 PM

90. Possibly. But there's lots of crazies out there surrounding the gun issue.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Reply #90)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 12:43 PM

92. No doubt about that,

 

on both sides of the issue.

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Response to nick of time (Reply #15)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 10:13 PM

212. You don't really know the reason why, and the reason is probably stupid, like jealousy

I've had two students in the past year lose brothers due to jealousy. Just dumb teenager stuff that used to result in a fistfight but now "I'll get him" means killing him with a gun.

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Response to wordpix (Reply #212)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 10:20 PM

214. You're right.

 

I don't know the reason, but the police are saying that it looks like it's a case of her being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:18 AM

17. This insanity has to stop

If you don't have the right to live, no other rights are meaningful.

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Response to SCantiGOP (Reply #17)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:19 AM

18. Everyone has the right to live

 

That girl's right to live was infringed by a criminal.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #18)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:32 AM

35. Yep. She should've been carrying to protect her rights, right?



Some wrongheaded Americans love their rights to as many effing guns and as much ammo as they can afford rather than their fellow American's life that, well, don't seem to give them the "warm and fuzzies" their killing devices do. I mean, hey . . . if twenty SLAUGHTERED six-year-olds isn't enough for those Americans to rethink their arming-themselves-to-their-teeth fetish, what will, right?

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Response to BlueCaliDem (Reply #35)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:40 AM

42. No, it probably wouldn't have made any difference

 

Keeping the scumbag who shot her in jail would have.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #42)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 12:40 PM

89. Right.

Because her horrible fate was set with this particular scumbag and not any other.

Yet according to you, it's far less plausible that were guns illegal and not as easily accessible or cheaply manufactured by the millions by corporate firearm manufacturers as they are today, she would still be targeted by a scumbag who escaped prison sentencing only now, without have access to cheap illegal firearms that can be bought ON LINE, he'd be wielding a kitchen knife or maybe even a molitive cocktail.

Face it. This country's fetish with guns is the reason why this girl and twenty innocent six-year-old babies were slaughtered, not because some deranged scumbag decided to go on a killing spree "just cuz". They had the means; they didn't have to look their victims in the eye, and it doesn't matter if they had "the motive".

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Response to BlueCaliDem (Reply #89)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 01:02 PM

102. You lost me at "Yet according to you..."

 

I'm not interested in defending myself against your silly straw man argument.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #102)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 01:17 PM

110. Unreasonable, isn't it?

But no less unreasonable than your silly strawman argument about some random scumbag armed with a deadly weapon designed TO KILL who just happens to be the designated scumbag that our laws, according to you, were too lax to keep in jail.

Thank you for proving that some fetishes are really too hard for some people to break free of.

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Response to BlueCaliDem (Reply #110)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 01:19 PM

112. I'd gladly enter into a wager about the nature of the person who murdered the girl

 

Odds are good that it's a young male with a criminal record.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #112)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 02:04 PM

134. In your feverish pursuit of chasing down whatever distraction you can find

in order not to have to face the cold-hard truth, you're forgetting ONE MAJOR detail here: he had a gun; a killing weapon; a weapon designed to KILL. And he used it for that purpose to take a young girl's life like it was nothing.

The "mentally unstable" excuse is wearing very thin. There are sociopaths and gangs all across the globe, and in every demographic and every race, yet the stats for gun-related slaughters seem to be all concentrated in this so-called civilized society with a corrupted 2nd Amendment law - the United States.

Why's that? Well, guns are much too easy to get a hold of. Even when bought legally, fully registered, and by a person who passes all mental health tests (should they ever administer any - *that ain't gonna happen considering our sorry state of access to health services in this country as well), they somehow always wind up in the hands of "scumbags" with "bad natures" slaughtering kids as easily as taking out their trash. If you can't see that this country has a serious gun problem that's killing our fellow Americans at terrifying rate just so a few gun-nuts can kiss their firearms every night, then perhaps our lawmakers can in order to protect the rest of us who do.

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Response to BlueCaliDem (Reply #134)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 02:47 PM

149. Yes, a gun. One of those things that are BANNED in Chicago.

 

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:23 AM

20. When does this all end?

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:24 AM

22. How sad. What a waste of young talent.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:32 AM

36. ...

RIP, little one.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:41 AM

44. When will this senseless violence end?

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:41 AM

45. .

~

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Response to patrice (Reply #45)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 03:18 PM

158. Tears also. I can hardly believe this.

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Response to freshwest (Reply #158)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 03:28 PM

162. You can SEE that she's an angel, trying to do good for her community. Breaks our hearts!!!

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:42 AM

48. Goddamn this world is depressing.

My condolences to her family.. So awful.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:50 AM

51. I literally CANNOT stand hearing about these babies being killed. Not a criticism of you, OP.

I'm glad you are bringing it to the forefront but I just get so angry and sad when I see this.

GET RID OF ALL FUCKING GUNS, ALL OF THEM. NOT JUST ASSAULT ONES OR OUZI ONES, ALL OF THE FUCKING GUNS.

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Response to Happyhippychick (Reply #51)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:53 AM

52. All of the guns...

 

Except, of course, those that are possessed and used by government employees.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #52)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 10:59 PM

217. That would be the optimal solution, if it could be done IMHO ...

The problem is, it can't. Therefore, we have to make compromises because it's not fair/safe for only the criminals (amongst the general populace) to have the guns ... which is what would happen if we just outlawed them outright w/o having the means and will to actually take every single one of them away.

But if your argument is we'll all automatically be repressed if it were the situation (i.e. only the 'government' had the guns) I'd just point to the dozens of first and second world countries where that is exactly the case ... yet people are not being repressed any more than we are here with our 300,000,000 firearms in private hands.

IMHO you have to either be a gun fetishist or generally prone to irrational beliefs to conclude that our 300M guns in private hands are the 'source' of our 'liberty' in this country. There's simply WAAAAY too many other free countries where almost nobody has guns outside the government.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:58 AM

56. Monstrous

 

I'm a grown man who is sobbing now. I apologize for any spelling errors.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:58 AM

57. Who knows who did this

But it was someone who saw the inauguration and somehow hated her. Yeah, way to point out the obvious 'Batou.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 12:02 PM

59. My gut reaction is that the South Side should be razed by bulldozers

The city should relocate those that are trying to make something of their lives and put the gangsters and street trash behind bars where they belong. But I know that's not going to happen, cannot happen.

I am just so sick over Hadiya's senseless, brutal death.

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Response to derby378 (Reply #59)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 01:16 PM

109. The West side has the same problems.

Where are you going to put two million people?

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Response to former9thward (Reply #109)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 01:44 PM

120. Yeah...

Like I said, it couldn't happen. Any attempt at mass relocation, just look at how well we did after Hurricanes Katrina and Sandy. Bad craziness all around.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 12:02 PM

60. I can hear the Right Wing now claiming Obama had her shot....

It's just the way their "brain" works.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #60)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 12:44 PM

93. Of course they will. It's perfect for them.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Reply #93)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:10 PM

218. Oh, of COURSE ...

I heard somewhere there's now Newtown 'Truthers' (lol at them copying the 9/11 skeptics nomenclature). Think it might've been a clip from Alex Jones website I saw on DU the other day.

I say there's NO DOUBT that by tomorrow AM if one were to go to Freeptardville there will be some heavily trafficked thread full of wingnut gun fetishists promulgating this EXACT conspiracy theory ... Obama 'had her whacked'.

I imagine the office shooting that happened a couple miles away from my office in Phoenix this afternoon will be the source of similar rantings ... in fact, in these people's minds, EVERY GUN CRIME that happens from now on will be Obama having people killed to help him pass the American 100% Gun Confiscation Act that they just KNOW he's working on. And that's, of course, so that he eventually can ship all the right-wing 'patriots' to the FEMA camps without a fight and turn America into a Communist Muslim paradise.

Not that a lot of us didn't do the exact same type of crazy thinking back in the days of the DimSon (in fact I admit to remaining to this day firmly in the LIHOP camp), but ... I'd like to think we didn't engage in stupidity of QUITE that magnitude.

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Response to brett_jv (Reply #218)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 11:28 AM

241. Right - every gun crime from now on will be part of the conspiracy!

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 12:19 PM

73. That sounds targeted. Who done it?

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 12:38 PM

88. The 2nd amendment

Has been twisted into a Constitutional mandate to the right to own any firearm and to use it any way a person would want. Not sure how we got here but that argument is absurd. I believe we need to either repeal or re-define the second amendment to help us move past this to a more honest debate on how to fix the problem. Repealing or re-writing it WOULD NOT, in itself, prevent people from owning a gun but it would remove this fixation on a "right" to own a gun. The Constitution should no more give a right to own a gun than a car or house or boat. Our Constitution is a set of principles that denote who we are and how our government should work and the relationship between the citizen and government. There should never be a "right" to own something, be it a person or an object. It has no place in a document like the Constitution. We have LAWS that denote the terms by which we can own an object or not own one. We may want to own an elephant but there are laws that control the terms and conditions by which we can own an elephant. Why should guns be any different than anything else?

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Response to angrychair (Reply #88)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 12:01 AM

222. It says 'keep and bear' ... which are terms associated with military usage ...

It most certainly does NOT say "sell", nor does it expressly say "own".

I think the only avenue available to assail it is on those grounds (since outright repeal is clearly not plausible).

Passing federal laws regarding 'sales' and 'ownership' do not violate the letter (nor the spirit, IMHO) of this Amendment, so I think that's how we need to frame the common-sense legislation at a national level that so many of us here are in favor of.

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Response to brett_jv (Reply #222)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 03:45 AM

229. I agree with you

Try telling that to the wackos though. You'll become their #1 enemy. lol

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 12:42 PM

91. A bullet through the heart of the nation.

If 20 six-year-olds wasn't enough, Hadiya Pendleton surely will be.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 12:46 PM

94. We need to treat guns like a new panademic. And the vaccine is putting a ring around it

 

a panademic needs a host, give the vaccine to enough people, and there is no where for the panademic to continue. It dies out.

takes a while, not immediate.

the legal guns in a state without major controls, allows gun murderers to murder in a state where hter are big restrictions

The NRA as a terror org. with million dollar soundbytes, tries to drown that out.

They focus(many times on blacks, btw, or other minorities, trying to terrorize their core groups who are in sycnch with the old JOhn Birch society mentality and try to say it is their fault

Faulty logic

it is the legal guns, the legal gun dealers, the gun shows that get those guns into Illinois.

Because a legal driver, who isn't speeding, has no broken mirrors or lights, drives like he is not hiding aynthing, can easily bring 100 guns into an area with no one knowing
(no matter the laws, no one sees it)

No more mr. nice guy
more security, and yes, checkpoints before entering a state

The repubs want border patrols in the south, well, let's have border patrol by the feds,
at each state's border. Zero tolerance.

and turn back anyone found with a gun going into the states that have laws saying no to that.

Put a ring around it.

Then make new laws and deal one at a time, with all the guns in the streets
legal and illegal

It is the legal guns that make any type of real control impossible.

as it stands

IMHO and feel free to disagree.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #94)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 02:54 PM

152. Check points at the state???

There are tens of thousands of entry points for the 50 states. A gun is very easy to hide. So every car entering a state would have to be torn apart -- not to mention the hundreds of thousands of trucks traveling through. Wow.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 12:54 PM

97. .

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 12:56 PM

99. How sad!!!

What a waste, only 15 years old!!! She had her whole life ahead of her.

What IS happening in Chicago? It has become the murder capital. Too many young people killing other young people. What are politicians and the authorities doing about it?



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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 01:03 PM

103. ... Police said 15-year-old Hadiya Pendleton was taking shelter from the rain under a canopy

at the park with about 12 other teenagers when a man jumped a fence, ran up to them and opened fire. The gunman then fled the scene in an automobile ... No arrests have been made ...
January 30, 2013 11:50 AM
Hadiya Pendleton Murder: Teen girl who performed at President Obama's inauguration fatally shot at Chicago park, report says
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57566658-504083/hadiya-pendleton-murder-teen-girl-who-performed-at-president-obamas-inauguration-fatally-shot-at-chicago-park-report-says/

... Police say she was not in a gang nor the intended target of a fatal Tuesday shooting. Hadiya's family and classmates are left to mourn her death after police say she was shot in the back while hanging out with a group of teens in a park at 2:30 p.m. Tuesday ...
Chicago girl who performed at inauguration shot dead
http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/local&id=8973551

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #103)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 01:08 PM

108. Yep.

 

She was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
What a tragic loss of such a beautiful girl.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 01:18 PM

111. Such a vibrant, pretty girl

She had a great future ahead of her.

Will the republicans heckle her parents too?

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 01:31 PM

115. I weep for Chicago, and more importantly

I weep for the children in Chicago...

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 01:35 PM

117. Another "message" sent by the disgusting right wing

If the average citizen participates or celebrates anything having to do with Obama, she or he could be next.

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Response to harrose (Reply #117)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 01:39 PM

118. Not true at all.

 

It was a case of her being in the wrong place at the wrong time. It was a gang member targeting other gang members.

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Response to nick of time (Reply #118)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 01:44 PM

121. It can't be, because they we can't blame our political enemies for it.

I suspect it was Rush Limbaugh who did it... wait did they say "jumped the fence"? Okay, maybe Sean Hannity would be more realistic. Better yet, maybe it was Paul Ryan. I heard he once jumped the grand canyon.

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Response to hughee99 (Reply #121)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 01:46 PM

123. No, no, no.

 

It was Jay Carney in a false flag op.

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Response to hughee99 (Reply #121)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 01:47 PM

125. No, I don't think it was anyone public like Hannity or Limbaugh...

... but I wouldn't be surprised to find out that this is a "message" from the Rethugs to the average American.

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Response to harrose (Reply #125)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 02:59 PM

154. I'd actually be somewhat surprised to find that out.

Usually, when people send "messages" it's apparent, not disguised to look like something it's not.

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Response to nick of time (Reply #118)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 01:48 PM

126. Just a week or so after the inauguration?

That's a heck of a coincidence.

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Response to harrose (Reply #126)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 01:53 PM

127. WGN and police have already said that it was a case of her

 

being in the wrong place in the wrong time. Nothing sinister about it, a gang member shot at a rival gang member and she was caught in the crossfire, nothing more.
Coincidences do happen you know.

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Response to nick of time (Reply #127)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 02:01 PM

131. I wouldn't put it above the reich wing

... to be involved and orchestrate gang activity.

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Response to harrose (Reply #131)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 02:03 PM

133. Maybe, but not in this case.

 

It was simply a case of her being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

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Response to nick of time (Reply #133)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 02:05 PM

135. You might be right...

... but you don't know that for sure -- any more than I know for sure that it *was* right wing. Admittedly, we're both guessing. But I have long since learned that the RW doesn't deserve the benefit of any doubt.

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Response to harrose (Reply #135)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 02:11 PM

138. Fair enough.

 

However, the police believe that its another random act of gang violence.

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Response to nick of time (Reply #138)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 02:21 PM

143. Things that "seem random"...

... often aren't.

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Response to harrose (Reply #143)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 02:24 PM

145. True,

 

but until there is evidence to suggest that this is something other than random, I tend to believe the police.

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Response to harrose (Reply #117)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 10:34 PM

215. What are you talking about?

Most of the 500 plus killings last year in Chicago were committed by young AA men, mostly killing each other. Unfortunately, many innocents got caught in the crossfire, just like this lovely girl.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 01:46 PM

124. this is terrible!!

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 01:56 PM

128. i feel like crying

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 02:03 PM

132. Jesus Christ

Enough already.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 02:10 PM

137. sigh....

Heart-breaking for any parent to lose a child so young, especially in such a violent and senseless manner.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 02:12 PM

140. I am sick of this.

When, when, when are we going to get serious.

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Response to Not Me (Reply #140)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 02:22 PM

144. When the extremists on both sides are silenced

 

and the adults can discuss and come to some real reform of the nations gun laws.

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Response to nick of time (Reply #144)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 03:33 PM

164. lol - your slip is showing.

What is your "adult" solution? I'd love to hear your "real reform" suggestions.

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Response to TBF (Reply #164)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 03:40 PM

167. My slip is showing? What does that even mean?

 

Real reform would be universal background checks, limit mags to 10 rounds, prosecute all gun violations with tough penalties, Just to name a few.
There are extremists on both sides of the issue that are drowning out the sensible people who truly want to do the right thing.
You have on the far right those that say there should be no restrictions on firearms, and on the far left, you have those that want to repeal the 2A and confiscate all firearms.
How is this conductive to an honest debate?

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Response to nick of time (Reply #167)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 06:57 PM

196. That is your framing -

and it doesn't surprise me. New Zealand managed to get rid of assault weapons and we can do it too.

I know all about the "sensible" gun measures NRA is proposing ...

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/01/21/1180075/-NRA-debate-tips

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Response to nick of time (Reply #144)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 04:26 PM

175. Indeed so.....n/t

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Response to nick of time (Reply #144)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 05:28 PM

188. Yeah, we should shoot them

I think the adults are the problem. Where else do our kids get their education.
Let's not be exclusionary. Consider that Vietnam was ended because of youth protest and that only adults can take a country to war under false pretenses.
The Military-Industrial Complex needs to be recognized for what it is; fear-mongering profiteers who don't care whether we live or die just as long as they can make a buck at it. It's not extremism, it's bizness.

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Response to BudHardener (Reply #188)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 09:52 PM

209. Huh?

 

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 02:45 PM

147. omg how sad! please, about all the BICKERING...

Have some respect.

Knock it off with the semantics squabbling.

What would be a more constructive and less violent way to discuss violence?
Can we ask ourselves that before beating each other up?

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 02:47 PM

148. Why have we let it get so out of hand?







We watched gangs arm themselves in our cities and did nothing meaningful to stop them, why?
We watched gun accidents rise across our country and did nothing meaningful to reverse them, why?
We watched the rise of violent games and movie content and did nothing, why?
We were told that being strong and having the largest military in the world would make us free, why did we believe those lies?
Are you ready to change that now?

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 02:51 PM

150. This was going on before Chicago's gun laws were declared unconstitutional

...Chicago has had some of the strictest gun laws. So look it up and see if Chicago shootings just started...

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 03:22 PM

160. So terribly sad.

Just 15 years old and with a lot of promise........R.I.P. Hadiya.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 03:29 PM

163. lapierre is puking it up RIGHT NOW on tv. what a despicable scumbag

lying AND being 'condesceding' is a bad combo...

nice! Leahy didn't even let him finish saying 'thank you'.

ya, ok, you freak, fuck you very much

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 03:39 PM

165. AWESOME!!! Leahy just handed WAYNEY his sorry scummy ass on a plate

oh, my god does he look bad.

'let's make this simple- that's not my question, i'm not playing games here!"



poor wayne!

again!

"with all due respect, time's up, that wans't the question i asked.." with a little smile..that was PRICELESS!!!

wayney was WHINING!

so sad!

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Response to farminator3000 (Reply #165)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 07:41 PM

199. You'll find that most of the gun humpers.....

are nothing but grown up bullies with self-esteem issues and when confronted by a real man who doesn't tremble in their presence, well, they show their true colors and show themselves for the cowards they are.

Leahy was terrific.

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Response to llmart (Reply #199)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 08:42 AM

236. i liked the hawaiian lady @ the end too

i was wondering when bullying would come up

she was a mellow end to the proceedings!

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 03:43 PM

168. the Chief from MD is pretty damn cool too

'yes mental health screenings need to be available...AND HIGH CAP MAGS STILL SUCK'

to paraphrase.

nice!

this lawyer from CO is a total ass wipe, however!

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Response to farminator3000 (Reply #168)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 03:51 PM

169. also AWESOME, i think feinstein made wayney BLUSH!!!

'what has it been 18 years? you look good, sir'

FIRST time i've actually seen wayney look human!

then leahy sez
'i'll give the perogitive to laughter..on that one'

had to rewind that a couple times, he sounds like william s burroughs!

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 03:58 PM

171. THE BEST WAY OF STOPPING A BAD GUY IN THE FIRST PLACE IS A GOOD BACKGROUND CHECK!!!

i swear he gave wayney the stink-eye when he said that

James Johnson,

The organizations in the National Law Enforcement Partnership to Prevent Gun Violence are united in urgently calling on Congress to:
• Require background checks for all firearm purchasers;
• Ensure that prohibited purchaser records in the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS), are up-to-date and accurate; and
• Limit high capacity ammunition feeding devices to ten rounds.
Seven of our nine groups, including the largest organizations among us, also support a ban on
2
assault weapons and Senator Feinstein’s legislation.
http://www.judiciary.senate.gov/pdf/1-30-13JohnsonTestimony.pdf

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 04:24 PM

174. Only cowards use guns on unarmed persons

I'm going to start saying that, only cowards shoot unarmed people.
In 71 years I have never needed a gun.
But to be fair, the military has done a great job of putting people in harms way and making them fearful for their safety when they return to civilian life.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 04:50 PM

182. This is DU? A girl gets shot and people worry if the gun is okay?

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 05:35 PM

191. I don't recall seeing this hue and cry after 7 people were murdered on Saturday


then again, none of those people performed at the inauguration.

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Response to Dreamer Tatum (Reply #191)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 05:49 PM

193. Another way to look at it, 87 gun accidents a day.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 06:33 PM

195. So sad

I can't believe it.

My heart just breaks for her parents.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 07:12 PM

198. This is just so heartbreaking

and so pointless. What was the point of killing this young girl just beginning her life. There is something so pathological about all of this violence. Sad. Just really, really sad.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 07:50 PM

201. R.I.P.

Hadiya

Prayers to your family and friends

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 08:10 PM

203. Goddamit to fucking HELL! How long are we going to tolerate this?

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Response to eridani (Reply #203)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 10:02 PM

210. I've been asking that

since the 60s/70s. When will it ever end? Sadly, it won't. Not as long as there are humans. My daughter was born in 1968 (a pretty violent year). I asked that question then and am asking it now. Only then, I had hope. Now I'm not so sure.

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Response to eridani (Reply #203)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 10:15 PM

213. As long as we let lobbyists buy our congress people

It's too damn long already and it's all related.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 10:36 PM

216. Very sad and it continues to drive home the need for gun control

I don't blame the people who have guns, but the people who oppose gun control. Those are a small (but very vocal) subset of those who own guns. They will continue to obstruct as more people get killed.

As an aside, I can see this as a new right wing conspiracy already. Not only was she in the inauguration parade, she's from Chicago. The right is going to come up with all kinds of twisted stories about this.

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Response to davidpdx (Reply #216)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 11:19 PM

219. For sure ... see my post above ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014385087#post218

It won't take but seconds for the freeptards to start howling that the President had her 'whacked' to further his gun-grabbing agenda. They'll be CONVINCED, I guarantee it.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 12:05 AM

223. Rest in Peace, Hadiya.

May the tragedy that stopped your life short help to bring our world to a better place. I'm sorry.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 01:10 AM

224. Let's not kid ourselves, Chicago is out of fucking control. Send in the troops.

 

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Response to bubbayugga (Reply #224)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 06:17 AM

234. Send them in to do what, precisely? (nt)

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 05:07 AM

231. Another victory for La Pierre and his friends

who troll the internet. One more dead child to add to their column of wins.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 07:46 AM

235. What a beautiful child

These are the worst kinds of deaths. I just feel an enormous sense of failure. American failure.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Thu Jan 31, 2013, 10:25 AM

238. There is a straight line between our state's budget woes and the surge in murders

A few years a go the murder rate was down. The penalties for unlawful possession of a firearm and felon in possession went up, dudes started getting pinched with guns and they were going away for a long time, like 2-5 years. Folks started carrying guns less, fewer murders.

Contrary to popular perception, this surge in murders in Chicago have little to do with fights over drug turf. It is imbeciles shooting other morons over trivial shit. Insults on facebook. Being "disrespected". Fools will always be fools but fools with guns are very dangerous. Also, many of the leaders of the big gangs - Gangster Disciples come to mind - have gone away and won't be getting out. So different subsets or cliques of the same gangs are shooting each other. Teenagers killing teenagers.

OK, back to the fiscal story. Illinois cannot house enough prisoners nowadays. Heck, there are prisons built that can't be staffed. We are selling a prison to the Feds. Illinois is worse than broke - we don't pay out bills. So since the state won't house these shitheads the charges get tossed or plead down - instead for IDOC time it is plead to time served in county.

So, what is going to change because of this poor girls murder? Nothing. Nothing. Nothing. Sure there will be a march of the reverends (many of whom are in bed with gangs). Rahm may shed another tear at this funeral. But the resources and the will to crack down is not here and will not return.

(Also, the Chicago Police Department has by and large retired in place. Moral is in the toilet. Manpower is down because...wait for it...the City is broke.)

Chicago is in a death spiral. I'm leaving.

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