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Fri Jan 25, 2013, 06:44 AM

Schools must provide sports for disabled, US says

Source: Associated Press

Students with disabilities must be given a fair shot to play on a traditional sports team or have their own leagues, the Education Department says.

Disabled students who want to play for their school could join traditional teams if officials can make "reasonable modifications" to accommodate them. If those adjustments would fundamentally alter a sport or give the student an advantage, the department is directing the school to create parallel athletic programs that have comparable standing to traditional programs.

"Sports can provide invaluable lessons in discipline, selflessness, passion and courage, and this guidance will help schools ensure that students with disabilities have an equal opportunity to benefit from the life lessons they can learn on the playing field or on the court," Education Secretary Arne Duncan said in a statement announcing the new guidance Friday.

The groundbreaking order is reminiscent of the Title IX expansion of athletic opportunities for girls and women four decades ago and could bring sweeping changes to school budgets and locker rooms for years to come.



Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2013/01/24/4030268/sports-are-a-civil-right-for-disabled.html

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Reply Schools must provide sports for disabled, US says (Original post)
IDemo Jan 2013 OP
Live and Learn Jan 2013 #1
LeftofObama Jan 2013 #4
obamanut2012 Jan 2013 #72
DailyGrind51 Jan 2013 #80
glowing Jan 2013 #2
Bibliovore Jan 2013 #16
Igel Jan 2013 #82
DonRedwood Jan 2013 #19
glowing Jan 2013 #39
Butterbean Jan 2013 #52
glowing Jan 2013 #56
KamaAina Jan 2013 #50
enlightenment Jan 2013 #53
KamaAina Jan 2013 #55
enlightenment Jan 2013 #70
glowing Jan 2013 #68
glowing Jan 2013 #54
KamaAina Jan 2013 #57
glowing Jan 2013 #67
Igel Jan 2013 #83
pissedoffliblgimp Jan 2013 #95
KamaAina Jan 2013 #99
JustABozoOnThisBus Jan 2013 #3
leftynyc Jan 2013 #5
revolution breeze Jan 2013 #13
DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav Jan 2013 #36
Chef Eric Jan 2013 #6
madrchsod Jan 2013 #7
Remmah2 Jan 2013 #17
madrchsod Jan 2013 #49
Bay Boy Jan 2013 #78
littlemissmartypants Jan 2013 #8
FailureToCommunicate Jan 2013 #9
alp227 Jan 2013 #27
FailureToCommunicate Jan 2013 #29
alp227 Jan 2013 #32
Igel Jan 2013 #85
Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #10
CreekDog Jan 2013 #33
Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #40
CreekDog Jan 2013 #42
Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #44
CreekDog Jan 2013 #45
cstanleytech Jan 2013 #66
liberal N proud Jan 2013 #11
postulater Jan 2013 #12
obamanut2012 Jan 2013 #75
Celebration Jan 2013 #14
madrchsod Jan 2013 #15
MichiganVote Jan 2013 #73
coldbeer Jan 2013 #18
Crowman1979 Jan 2013 #20
FailureToCommunicate Jan 2013 #21
geek tragedy Jan 2013 #22
FailureToCommunicate Jan 2013 #23
alp227 Jan 2013 #28
FailureToCommunicate Jan 2013 #31
Igel Jan 2013 #86
CreekDog Jan 2013 #34
CreekDog Jan 2013 #89
starroute Jan 2013 #24
hughee99 Jan 2013 #35
pissedoffliblgimp Jan 2013 #96
hughee99 Jan 2013 #100
iiibbb Jan 2013 #25
FailureToCommunicate Jan 2013 #26
iiibbb Jan 2013 #38
iiibbb Jan 2013 #41
iiibbb Jan 2013 #43
FailureToCommunicate Jan 2013 #59
iiibbb Jan 2013 #62
FailureToCommunicate Jan 2013 #65
Odin2005 Jan 2013 #47
Bay Boy Jan 2013 #79
Dawson Leery Jan 2013 #77
alp227 Jan 2013 #30
happyslug Jan 2013 #37
Odin2005 Jan 2013 #46
KamaAina Jan 2013 #51
Blackjackdavey Jan 2013 #48
OKNancy Jan 2013 #64
Lesmoderesstupides Jan 2013 #58
Recursion Jan 2013 #60
Lesmoderesstupides Jan 2013 #61
pissedoffliblgimp Jan 2013 #92
FailureToCommunicate Jan 2013 #63
RobinA Jan 2013 #69
MichiganVote Jan 2013 #71
One_Life_To_Give Jan 2013 #74
Dawson Leery Jan 2013 #76
Crowman1979 Jan 2013 #84
Dawson Leery Jan 2013 #87
Exultant Democracy Jan 2013 #88
alp227 Jan 2013 #81
Marrah_G Jan 2013 #90
Trascoli Jan 2013 #94
pissedoffliblgimp Jan 2013 #91
Trascoli Jan 2013 #93
JustABozoOnThisBus Jan 2013 #98
pissedoffliblgimp Jan 2013 #97

Response to IDemo (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 06:58 AM

1. Good. Time to place sports back where they belong

as a fun exercise for all and to remember that they are just games.

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Response to Live and Learn (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 07:25 AM

4. ^^This!^^

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Response to Live and Learn (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 05:11 PM

72. You are completely right!

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Response to Live and Learn (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 06:51 PM

80. Exactly! "Sports" have become the "bread and circuses" distraction from a society in decline.

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Response to IDemo (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 07:13 AM

2. I'm not sure what this may imply in the future?

Would some of these schools slap a "learning disability" on some of their star athletes to get them onto the field to encourage the return of the "dumb jock" or "lazy jock" who's making D's in a class?

And the reality is no one in a wheelchair is going to be allowed onto a field to play soccer or a court to play basketball without it becoming a serious hazard for all players, and unless there is a very large school with a number of kids in a wheelchair, how do u set up a special league.

In theory, this is great, and should be encouraged for healthy living, but with schools having so many budget issues, how is it going to be implemented? It costs a significant amount of money to change building codes up to specifications, with still a lot of waivers on older buildings that cannot be feasibly restructured without losing historical significance or that has been "grandfathered" in for business owners.

Love the idea, wonder how it will really work out in practicality and economically? At the end of the day, paying for the education is very difficult with so many budget cuts already affecting students having items like new books or a decent library or technology or even effective teacher/ student ratios.

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Response to glowing (Reply #2)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 08:59 AM

16. Perhaps districts or regions can pool resources to have consolidated teams?

My partner was in an orchestra at a different high school in his district because there wasn't one at his own school; he was bused over for every rehearsal and performance. All the high schools in my district worked together on a student-built house each year; students at any of the schools could take the building course, or contribute through other classes on artwork or interior design or so on (my senior year I made stained-glass windows; someone else made wrought-iron railings). While most districts likely have fewer unintegrable sports-interested disabled students than orchestra-instrument players or construction-interested students, similar or broader pooling could help.

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Response to Bibliovore (Reply #16)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 09:28 AM

82. That's okay, if you have perhaps 4 or 5 districts close to each other.

Say, all no more than 15 miles or so from a common center, with all the activities happening there.

Otherwise you wind up having 4 school districts busing 4 or 5 students each, plus coaches and support staff (including student facilitators, no doubt) 25-30 miles one way 2-3 times a week.

That would probably been seen as prohibitive.

This is a rule made by somebody used to living in large cities for those living in large cities.

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Response to glowing (Reply #2)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 10:35 AM

19. But is it right for a district to have 20 sport teams that NO special ed kids can play on? Public

funding is public funding. It should be split up evenly.

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Response to DonRedwood (Reply #19)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 01:12 PM

39. If you look at a budget of resources, and having a mom

On a small town school board and living in VT where the entire towns budget is posted and voted on, I get where money/ student is spent and I can tell you that special needs kids do have a larger budget (and I'm not saying that they shouldn't, but the reality is that in our small town, the girl with cerabal palsy was extremely expensive on the budget from 5-21 and yes 21 is the last yr in VT that the state is responsible for educating anyone thru mandatory laws). Her special needs helper had to be trained in nursing care and transportation costs to transport in a rural area (20 - 40 mins to a school) were extremely expensive.

I still think the best way to fund education would be more like we do with our military force, the Federal Govt pays for the school, teachers/ staff support pay checks, healthcare, retirement, and extra curricular and after school programs, along with transportation. Take the school boards out of commission (they are not a good fit for the modern learning world because of their political agendas in larger areas). And the Dept of Ed curriculum is decided upon by teachers input (the real professionals who know what they are doing), instead of the Arme Duncan's.

The thing is that for smaller towns and rural areas, sports programs are already taking cuts OR being made into an enterprise which leads to bs like in OH of a culture of protecting football players from heinous crimes.

All it's going to take to shut every child out of sports is a parent with a special needs not being able to participate in a practical manner and then the only thing the town can do is to shut it all down for everyone to keep from paying out of a lawsuit.

Like I said, it's a great idea, but mandating this rule on cash strapped schools is hard to do unless the Federal Govt is going to pony up the money... And I'm not holding my breath for the Republican Congress to actually do anything (they still think teachers make too much and their Wall St cronies deserve outlandish bonuses).

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Response to glowing (Reply #39)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 02:02 PM

52. I'm torn as well, but not in the same way.

I would like the funding for special needs students to go towards funding more and better special needs teachers and classrooms, aides and adaptive equipment. That's what's needed the most, IMO.

I'm lucky, in my district we have apparently great funding because we have a large selection of self contained autism classrooms, which is something that is supposedly something hard to come by in some areas of the country. We also have aides and great teachers (some places), and our local United Way and Autism Society do a great job of providing sports opportunities every spring and fall for special needs kids. However, I know in other states and other districts, this isn't the case, and I know those parents would probably like any extra funding to be thrown into hiring teachers and aides and into improving classrooms and buying equipment like smartboards and ipads and things like that.

I dunno. Plus, Special Olympics comes to my son's school, and he participates in sports with them all the time, even when he was too young to be an official athlete.

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Response to Butterbean (Reply #52)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 02:15 PM

56. Yes u r, in my mom's school (she's a teacher)

They can only integrate special needs into classrooms (in fact it's so small, 2 grades are taught by 1 teacher and the student/ teacher ratio never exceeds 20). This is why I'm saying its hard. And the reason no one trusts the Feds to take over is because those in charge now suck and seem to be against the teachers; instead of parent/ teachers demanding am accountable, practical education beuracracy.

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Response to glowing (Reply #2)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 01:55 PM

50. no one in a wheelchair is going to be allowed onto a field to play soccer or a court to play basketb

Counterexamples:



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Response to KamaAina (Reply #50)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 02:09 PM

53. I believe the poster meant

that schools are unlikely to create teams of mixed (ambulatory and non-ambulatory) players, since they went on to comment that it might be impossible for a single school to field enough non-ambulatory players to make up an entire team. Which is possible - and as was pointed out, the answer might be to have teams made up of players from multiple schools.

I don't think they were saying schools wouldn't allow for teams like your photos.

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Response to enlightenment (Reply #53)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 02:14 PM

55. teams made up of players from multiple schools

Some smaller schools already do this for non-disabled athletes. For instance, five small private schools in Honolulu field joint teams known as the "Pac-5 Wolfpack".

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Response to KamaAina (Reply #55)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 03:56 PM

70. Yes,

I believe that was being discussed in the post - and some of the earlier replies. I'm old enough to remember when sports teams needed to draw from multiple schools for many sports, so it makes perfect sense.

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Response to enlightenment (Reply #53)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 03:53 PM

68. Thank you, that's what I meant.. AND I'm trying to take an outlook on a rural region.

Limited populations is going to make statistics of any amount decrease.

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Response to KamaAina (Reply #50)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 02:11 PM

54. I meant within a mixed event. It would be dangerous to have

Last edited Fri Jan 25, 2013, 03:38 PM - Edit history (1)

both athletes integrated. All it takes is knocking over a wheel chair or tripping over or falling onto another player. I didn't mean special leagues, and while it may be doable to set up a league in larger cities, it would be nearly impossible in smaller, rural areas.

I think a lot of people don't understand large population density areas and rural small density issues. I have lived both. I also have seen what it means to a small town to have to soak up the costs of extreme special needs. A town spending $50,000.00 on one child is a lot to absorb... Whereas in a larger population density, it would be easier to spread out the costs.

Like I said in a post previously, our education should be federally funded completely. No small towns or recessions or mandates would devastate the school system. I am not saying that special needs children shouldn't participate in athletics. But they still separate the Olympics from the Special Olympics. It's not as feasible as it sounds good.

And Arne comes from Chicago where public schools for learning have stripped of basics like PE out, but he also sees a greater population density where it's feasible to set up teams and have coaches and buses equipped properly for transport. This is not meant to be a dig at special needs. It's should be a call to actually arm our next generation with more advantages than it takes to build a bomb to explode.

There's the real fight! That's where we should focus.

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Response to glowing (Reply #54)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 02:18 PM

57. The analogy here is not the Special Olympics but the Paralympics

held a few weeks after the main Olympic Games, in which athletes with disabilities compete in Olympic sports for real medals. You may recall that South African sprinter Oscar Pistorius competed in both last year, getting as far as the semifinals in the Olympic 400 meters.

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Response to KamaAina (Reply #57)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 03:49 PM

67. What is your point? I'm talking about costs and actual logistics in implementation on school

districts already under to many severe budget cuts. Perhaps you don't have a child? But the basic list to send a child back to school these days includes copier paper and glue and paper towels and toilet paper.. exactly how much money do you think these schools have? In the elementary school, there is no "team" event sponsored by the school; anything extracurricular is an expense and travel cost assigned to a parent (this includes many middle schools as well). I live in the Tampa Bay area with larger school districts and more money theorectically. It isn't until highschool that schools help sponsor team events, and at some schools, transportation costs are having to be fundraised to keep going.

Like I've said, this is not a "dig" at special needs. This is a dig at our govt making mandates and not covering the costs to implement the mandates once again (and I'm not holding my breath waiting on the tea baggers to increase taxes to cover the costs of these programs that are constantly mandated). I feel the Feds should take over all of the schooling costs and get the burden off of property taxes all together. On the other side of that, creating the system of what and who and how we teach needs to remain firmly in the hands of those involved in actual teaching. Its not like we lead our army with accountants, we lead them with military generals. So, in the same manner the Ed. Dept should be run accordingly as well.

I know many, many people are capable of doing a lot, and should have the opportunity. But at the moment, getting a child fed properly in many cities and poor areas is quite a feat in itself... so, I believe we need the funding to come directly from the federal govt, pay for teachers, staff, mandates, and school repair, extra curricular activity, before and after school care, shit daycare for children before K, and Universities. We should spend more money on education of our next generation than we do bombing shit up.

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Response to KamaAina (Reply #57)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 09:31 AM

83. The article would be saying both are entailed. n/t

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Response to KamaAina (Reply #57)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 02:40 AM

95. YES!!



Lots of students are capable of playing sports on non-disabled teams! Hope in the next Olympics we see a couple, not just one like the athlete above!!! Then olympics after that even more until it's no big deal!! If you make your country's olympic team-you make the team! No big deal disability doesn't have anything to do with being an Olympic Athlete

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Response to pissedoffliblgimp (Reply #95)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 02:30 PM

99. Actually, there was at least one more

Natalia Partyka, a table tennis player from Poland with one arm.



Then there was the high school kid from NJ who was kicked out of Special Olympics - because he made his school's varsity swim team!

Oh, by the way. welcome to DU. Be sure to check out our Disability group:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1141

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Response to IDemo (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 07:22 AM

3. This should produce a lot of athletic scholarships for disabled students.

just like Title IX produced athletic scholarships.

The schools might create parallel athletic programs, but to have "comparable standing" will require partnership with Sports Illustrated and ESPN. I wouldn't bet on "comparable standing". School ADs will not give the new leagues much thought.

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Response to IDemo (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 07:27 AM

5. I'm slightly torn on this one

Of course I think it's great they want to provide the opportunity to everyone - that's how it's supposed to be. In reality, our schools are horribly underfunded and sports is not where the priority should be. We have schools where kids have to share textbooks, schools that are crumbling down, where art and music programs have to be dropped....I think we need to address those issues first.

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #5)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 08:33 AM

13. Agreed.

Daughter's old school no longer has gifted classes, but they have excellent boys' and girls' basketball teams which travel by school transportation to other schools to compete. And they are only sixth graders. Junior high is even more sports oriented.

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #5)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 12:47 PM

36. I agree. There isn't enough money as it stands for the educational part of school. These

 

programs will be put in place, then we'll see a lot of lawsuits because of the newness of the programs that'll have to be paid for with our tax dollars. Then they'll say they're forced to raise our property taxes again to cover all of the short falls. I'm tired of having my taxes raised because they can't properly budget the money.

In reality a paraplegic can do a lot of things very well, playing football isn't one of them. It's dangerous for everyone involved to have them on the field. Are there enough wheel chair bound children in a school interested enough to start their own team? I doubt it. As much as I'd like to say this is a great idea, I can't. It's going to be another mess for the taxpayer. Just like all of the other mess's they create and expect us to clean up.

In reality there are a lot of kids who aren't disabled, try out for teams and never make the cut.

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Response to IDemo (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 07:33 AM

6. Sounds great, but I can't help but be suspicious.

What happens when public schools can't afford to create "parallel athletic programs"?

I have no doubt that right wingers will use "non-compliance" as an excuse to say that our public schools are failing and must be closed.

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Response to IDemo (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 07:36 AM

7. this is a joke or....

maybe it`s his way of handing out more punishment to public schools.


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Response to madrchsod (Reply #7)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 09:28 AM

17. I think it's possible.

 

If you ever have a chance, attend a Special Olympics event.

You'd be surprised at the athletes who won't take no for an answer.

Outlets for physical fitness for the disabled are as important as physical fitness for the mainstream society.

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Response to Remmah2 (Reply #17)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 01:55 PM

49. i`m fully aware of the special olympics and their purpose

my wife works with both mentally and physically disabled adults
as a former youth soccer coach i was thinking of competive field sports. soccer,football,etc. track and field,bowling, and other sports should be open to students with disabilities. i also know that schools and parents will be more than displeased with this idea. it took awhile but they got over their problem of women sports programs. hopefully for those involved it will be a smooth transition.

i guess those bloated high school football programs will be taking a hit.....

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Response to madrchsod (Reply #49)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 05:54 PM

78. "i guess those bloated high school football programs will be taking a hit....."

Except that in most localities the football program is the only sport that has a positive cash flow.

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Response to IDemo (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 07:40 AM

8. Awesome news!

Love it. Peace. lmsp

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Response to IDemo (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 07:49 AM

9. “Justice denied anywhere diminishes justice everywhere.”

While I applaude the new directive, many of us thought this was settled long ago:

The 1973 Rehabilitation Act
Section 504 states that "no qualified individual with a disability in the United States shall be excluded from, denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under" ANY program or activity that either receives Federal financial assistance."

and the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act of 1975-
"requires public schools to make available to all eligible children with disabilities a free appropriate public education in the least restrictive environment appropriate to their individual needs."

Full civil rights was the promise as well of the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) of 1990, signed by GHW Bush.

That dream - of full civil rights for people with disabilities- is anther little step closer with this announcement, perhaps.
It is a shame and a missed opportunity that Obama didn't add that group to his inaugural speach of "Seneca Falls, Selma, and Stonewall"

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Response to FailureToCommunicate (Reply #9)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 12:05 PM

27. All laws signed by REPUBLICAN presidents...Nixon, Ford, & GHW Bush

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Response to alp227 (Reply #27)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 12:20 PM

29. And your point is?

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Response to FailureToCommunicate (Reply #29)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 12:23 PM

32. In this age, Right wingers would call this Arne Duncan directive "COMMUNISM"

even though even republicans presidents have supported legislation similar to what Duncan is directing here.

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Response to FailureToCommunicate (Reply #9)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 01:07 PM

85. "Free appropriate public education"

has been redefined.

Redefining terms mid-stream is really disruptive. And produces a lot of litigation, gobbling up resources.

In '75 the feds subsidized local activities a lot less. Many programs were specifically helped by or funded by the federal government. Now, with general slush-funds handed out to districts, it can be argued everything receives federal assistance.

That's part of the problem, and it can be narrowed and restricted through accounting practices. Or rendered all-encompassing by saying money's fungible, so $20 assistance means that everything is under federal purview.

Depends to what extent you like federal oversight, to the extent you agree with local policies or trust your local fellow citizens or to which you agree with fellow citizens at a thousand miles' remove.

Personally, I'm subject to many dozens of rules made by people who have no idea what my work environment is like. The rules are disconnected and sound good on paper--but when the paper has to become reality, things get screwed up. Massively. When they screw over those you don't like, it merits a shrug or at outburst of schadenfreud. When they screw over you or those you're responsible for, it provokes outrage. It's wrong to view the government as the enemy but worse for the government to view you as the enemy.

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Response to IDemo (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 07:52 AM

10. Let's see .... we don't have enough money for arts education, so let's add more costs.

Awesome.

This has no resemblance to Title IX.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #10)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 12:23 PM

33. WTF?

i'm sorry the disabled are too costly for you.

what should we do with them that would be inexpensive enough for you?

and i'm afraid of what you would say.

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #33)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 01:16 PM

40. The disabled are not too costly for me.

The rest of your posting was highly offensive, but not unusual for a select few at DU.

Do not flatter yourself into believing that you have the slightest notion of my unexpressed thoughts.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #40)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 01:19 PM

42. you said it's too expensive for them to have sports

if you are offended that we think you believe what you said, maybe you should clarify.

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #42)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 01:25 PM

44. You make me sick.

I make a simple comment, and you infer that I consider the disabled to be disposable. You know nothing of me in the context of this matter other than I resist the added cost of the proposal.

I am not interested in debating anyone with your hateful attitudes, nor do I wish to share anything personal about me with you. Your rush to judgment is not consistent with someone who supposedly is striving in the best interest of people who struggle to have a voice. Nor am I convinced that the disabled would appreciate being represented by the likes of you.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #44)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 01:41 PM

45. then why did you post the decision as if it were a way to take money away from schools?

and say that it is completely unlike Title IX?

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #33)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 03:28 PM

66. I think the point they were trying to make is the fact that its going to cost money and

the money is going to have to come from somewhere and if its not from the sports programs funding then its got to come from somewhere else and that somewhere else is likely to be other programs like music, drama and the varies other arts.

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Response to IDemo (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 07:55 AM

11. It's time to make school sports all inclusive vs exclusive

Maybe we will start cheering for the little guy because he/she did spectacular things considering her/his abilities.


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Response to IDemo (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 08:05 AM

12. Let's do the same with college and pro sports too

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Response to postulater (Reply #12)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 05:16 PM

75. I seriously think that would be a great thing to do

Especially in college. It would make them sports again, instead of an elitist industry.

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Response to IDemo (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 08:34 AM

14. the realitiy is this

If more money has to be spent to get ADHD kids, etc. to be on sports teams, something else has to go--what would you like it to be? Arts in the schools? The debate team? The band? Regular athletic programs? The janitor? Teacher salaries?

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Response to Celebration (Reply #14)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 08:36 AM

15. the janitors and teachers salaries....

after all most of them are those lazy union workers...

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Response to madrchsod (Reply #15)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 05:12 PM

73. Already been done darling. Next cut? And special sports means special equipment

and special transportation...the list goes on. Not to mention that try out's for sports teams will be thrown out the window. most of which are mandated by the High School Athletic programs--who have their own set of rules.

Way to go Arne'. No research and no money went into this. Typical Arne Duncan brainless plan.

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Response to IDemo (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 09:59 AM

18. I'm for it

School taxes are a big expense.
I always vote yes. My only problem
is my property is valued more than
twice what I can sell it for and they
tax me on their assessment of my property!

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Response to IDemo (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 10:44 AM

20. We should do something like Europe and have seperate sports clubs instead.

Let's not take money from education to fund this. The sports clubs can fund themselves via ticket sales, merchandise and player fees.

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Response to Crowman1979 (Reply #20)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 11:24 AM

21. Swell idea! And it has been done before...

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Response to IDemo (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 11:30 AM

22. The result of this will be schools drastically cutting athletic departments.

How do you create an entire program of equal standing to the basketball, volleyball, football programs for kids who are physically incapable of playing those sports.

With women's programs, it made sense since there was a very large pool of participants in those programs.

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Response to IDemo (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 11:40 AM

23. I am surprised by some of the comments here considering the 'progressive' leanings of

Last edited Fri Jan 25, 2013, 06:21 PM - Edit history (1)

DU members.

Some of the posters use phrases or arguments that echo ones used to resist previous civil rights progress.

Maybe folks should spend some time actually reading up on Seneca Falls, Selma, Stonewall, Title IX, and the disability rights movement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Disability_rights_movement ) and THEN reflect on which group they STILL do not believe should have the same rights they enjoy.

I'm guessing most here would say that (especially) public money should not be spent to benefit only the well-off, white, straight, male, able-bodied citizens.

These were long fought struggles by progressives of their eras. Let's not stop moving towards a 'more perfect union' in our era.

We can all do better.

-FTC

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Response to FailureToCommunicate (Reply #23)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 12:10 PM

28. Well, not every "progressive" idea can realistically work.

Especially given all the funding issues of public schools, while this directive seems like equal opportunity it's more like unfunded mandates, as if nclb was not bad enough.

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Response to alp227 (Reply #28)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 12:23 PM

31. NCLB. Promoted and signed by a Republican president.


Two can play that game.

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Response to FailureToCommunicate (Reply #31)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 01:51 PM

86. Absolutely. And cosponsored by the sheltered scion of an archcapitalist dynasty.

That would be Ted Kennedy, of the Kennedy clan.

He was very proud of the law that he shepherded through Congress. Odd to think of him as an archconservative. Esp. when many voiced their support for the HCRA and ACA in his name.

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Response to alp227 (Reply #28)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 12:25 PM

34. unfunded mandates? can we cut the Republican terminology?

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Response to alp227 (Reply #28)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 09:41 PM

89. so we can't afford to give the disabled rights

sorry you feel that way.

sounds pretty harsh and discriminatory to me.

are you a Democrat? are you sure you are? that's a pretty anti progressive opinion and you keep saying "unfunded mandates".

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Response to IDemo (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 11:50 AM

24. I think it's the fixation on teams and leagues that's a problem

Providing more opportunities for kids with disabilities to compete in physical activities is a great idea. Making accommodations to get some of them into regular sports would also be a good thing. But the idea of trying to create an entire parallel structure of school teams boggles the mind.

With Title IX for women, you had half the school population to draw upon. But according to http://www.betterhighschools.org/pubs/documents/HSInTheUS_1210.pdf, in 2007-08 only 12.5 percent of public secondary school students had an IEP and about 60% of those involved learning disabilities or speech disabilities. Presumably many of the others involved emotional problems. And a smaller fraction would be actual physical disabilities.

So how in the world does a school take, say, a hundred or two hundred kids of both genders and with a wide range of intellectual, emotional, and physical disabilities and create a parallel athletic program with comparable standing to traditional programs?

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Response to starroute (Reply #24)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 12:25 PM

35. My school had less than 500 kids,

and only 2 that would probably fall into a category of disabled. How do you accommodate a "separate but equal" football, baseball, basketball or soccer program for only 2 students? It's tough to do this on team sports without sufficient numbers of eligible students who want to play.

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Response to hughee99 (Reply #35)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 02:51 AM

96. Why can't you find a sport those two can join that already exixsts

Integrate those two into an existing team!!! Think outside the box-include them as much as they are able to do and want to do..Email back and forth with an adaptive rec expert for guidance!

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Response to pissedoffliblgimp (Reply #96)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 04:39 PM

100. For a school that offers only 5 boys sports

(Football, Soccer, basketball, baseball and tennis) it would have been hard to find one that can accommodate a quadruple amputee, or someone who is greatly vision impaired... and this was 20 years ago, so email wasn't really an option (yes, it existed, but no one really used it).

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Response to IDemo (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 11:52 AM

25. Cancel all sports. My kids hike and play outside. Where's my subsidy. Sports should

 

be funded by the people that want to play them or the professional organizations that want to recruit players.

Same thing in college sports... it should all be self sustaining.

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Response to iiibbb (Reply #25)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 11:58 AM

26. Did you forget the "sarcasm" smilie? Actually, I probably know

the answer. Your favorite group is Gun Control & RKBA.

I withdraw the question.

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Response to FailureToCommunicate (Reply #26)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 01:11 PM

38. Thank you... have a nice day.

 

I would like to refer to the DU community standards before you go off half-cocked assuming you know anything about where I am in the political spectrum. Really nice to know there are such open minds out there. Thanks for making me feel welcome.

Our Community Standards

It is the responsibility of all DU members to participate on our discussion forums in a manner that promotes a positive atmosphere and encourages good discussions among a diverse community of people holding a broad range of center-to-left viewpoints. Members should refrain from posting messages on DU that are disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. These broad community standards of behavior are maintained though the combined efforts of members posting and serving on citizen juries, using their own best judgment to decide what behavior is appropriate and what is not.

Members who cannot hold themselves to a high standard risk having their posts hidden by a jury of their peers, and being blocked out of discussion threads they disrupt. Those who exhibit a pattern of willful disregard for the Community Standards risk being in violation of our Terms of Service, and could have their posting privileges revoked.




As it is, I do think that sports receive an unfair amount of resources and from a plethora of other activities. It is unfair that sports garners all of these funds while other groups .... perhaps environmental groups.... or chess teams.... or science teams.... are forced to scrounge for funds.

On top of that there is the plethora of sports related injuries that kids suffer.

It is unfair, and the only answer I see is to cancel them in general and devote the money to education which is what the schools are there for.

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Response to FailureToCommunicate (Reply #26)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 01:16 PM

41. Go attack this secret republican

 

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=380361

They even have a stealthy "leftynyc" member name. That can't be real.

Go get her.

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Response to FailureToCommunicate (Reply #26)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 01:20 PM

43. Lastly

 

Did it ever occur to you that perhaps the only reason that I spend time in RKBA is that it's a place where, since I'm not a typical democrat (actually moderate), that I fill inclined to argue about policy more.

Since I agree with left positions on environment I don't feel compelled to go in there and say "hear hear".

Since I agree with left positions on gay rights I don't feel compelled to go in there and talk about how much I agree with them.


I debate where there's debate. I read where there is not.


I will say I am fucking tired of the condescension in political discussions these days.

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Response to iiibbb (Reply #43)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 02:25 PM

59. It did not occur to me. So I checked. You may be in RKBA to argue policy but

I did not see much policy debate. What I saw was name calling and defensive retorts (with links added to back you up)

You say you are "fucking tired of the condescension in political discussions these days"

In the time I spent trying to get a handle on your outlook, I have to say you may be guilty of doing that also.

I feel strongly about the subject of the OP, and so I was a bit 'knee-jerky' in my reaction. I usually try not to be.

We may disagree about guns, but I applaud that you are "moderate" on other issues.

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Response to FailureToCommunicate (Reply #59)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 02:37 PM

62. Thank you...

 

That place is not healthy for me.... but I'm not perfect.

Not as an excuse but the name-calling may be a side effect of people calling me nasty things over many months. Eventually it gets to me.


and also...

.... if they _are_ going to have sports programs, then they _should_ include disabled students. I am just of the opinion that the whole shebang should be axed because schools are strapped enough for cash.

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Response to iiibbb (Reply #62)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 03:07 PM

65. So true!

There are parts of DU that get me riled, so I try to limit my exposure there, if I want to keep my blood pressure down...

and lastly: Schools ARE strapped for cash, of course. But public schools are supported by public taxes so... it seems only fair to not serve one group over another, It might mean shifting $$ away from some costly but 'traditional' expense, like numerous boys varsity teams...but we have gained so much more from doing the right thing (e.g. Title IX)

Absolutely we need to fund with the taxes we do pay the things that are of importance to us, and the future. I can tell you from experience that the glimmer of hope this kind of policy change offers some kids is... priceless.

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Response to iiibbb (Reply #25)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 01:50 PM

47. IMO youth sports should be funded by local governments, not schools

Tying youth recreation to school funding is idiotic.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #47)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 06:42 PM

79. Local governments don't have

any more 'extra' money than public schools do.

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Response to iiibbb (Reply #25)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 05:47 PM

77. +1,000,000,000,000

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Response to IDemo (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 12:22 PM

30. Got me thinking about the Friday Night Lights character handicapped by football injury.

http://fridaynightlights.wikia.com/wiki/Jason_Street

Should his (fictional) high school have offered him an alternative athletics program, I think I remember in the show that Jason Street began doing wheelchair basketball (in a private league) after his paralysis.

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Response to IDemo (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 12:47 PM

37. Here it the Actual Department of Education web site notice on this

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Response to IDemo (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 01:44 PM

46. Good in principle, but in reality this is just another unfunded mandate...

...that will hurt public schools even more than they are hurting now because the idiots are not going to raise their own taxes to pay for this.

This is more evidence for my position that youth sports should be a local government responsibility, not a school one.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #46)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 02:00 PM

51. Some of us might actually be good, you know

like charter member of the Autistic Basketball Hall of Fame Jason McElwain:



Separating sports from education is an intriguing concept, though. What if it were applied to public colleges?

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Response to IDemo (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 01:54 PM

48. Two things

that jump out at me about this is a) I don't know of any rule that prevents any and all members of the student body to try out for any sport they'd like. As it stands, there are numerous kids who try out for soccer, for instance, and several of them get cut because there are roster limits. The kids who get cut are the kids who can't peform the sport at the level the kids who don't get cut can. This new rule seems to suggest that if you're not good enough, maybe due to the disability, maybe not, you would be exempt from getting cut while those without disabilities, but just aren't good enough, just get cut. That sounds like a problematic scenario, to say the least. and b) I've been moved, as a long time lurker, to make my first comment on this forum, by the ongoing negative attitude toward sports expressed by posters here. The continuous running down of sports and by association, athletes, as if they are antithetical to the "progressive project" is disappointing. Children involved in sports are exposed to numerous ideas, many of which are negative and ought to be challenged. However, depending on the attitudes and orientations of the adults involved, there is enormous potential for lessons around community, teamwork and problem solving, to name just a few. In fact, sports are one of the very few things left in our communities, besides tragedies, that bring community members together. Sports are important -- just like music and art -- they shouldn't be pitted against one another.

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Response to Blackjackdavey (Reply #48)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 02:48 PM

64. A lot of us at DU love sports

They negative ones just like to yammer.. they hate anything having to do with pop culture or sports, and often have stereotypical views on many things. Check out this group: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1204

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Response to IDemo (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 02:20 PM

58. Positive Example Gallaudet University

 

Gallaudet has many top student athletes that would be in a Div 1 schools playing a sport if it were not for their different ability.

A deaf kid who could run faster than Bolt would never get the chance to show it on the big stage just because they are deaf. You could have a dual starting system with the gun and a light; you just leveled the playing field for all with the same running ability.

It is very easy to think of many ways this could and will work out well.



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Response to Lesmoderesstupides (Reply #58)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 02:29 PM

60. The Gallaudet football team invented the huddle -- an example of how...

... persons with disabilities can bring new perspectives and great improvements to sports.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #60)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 02:36 PM

61. Gallaudet football team had some really good players that would have gone to the NFL

 

if they were in bigger programs and were not differently abled. I have heard a number of couches state this over time.

For some bizarre assed reason people think this will force schools to let a kid with CP play Div 1 football just because the kid wants to.
It ain’t going to happen.

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Response to Lesmoderesstupides (Reply #61)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 02:06 AM

92. Not because they want to..

Because they make the team with reasonable accommodation!!!!!!!!!!!!\

I don't want paralleled school sports-I want integrated sports-if you don't make the team you don't make the team..Everyone has an equal shot

Same thing for any job one should be hired if they can perform the essential duties with reasonable accommodations despite disability. That doesn't entitle every person with a disability whatever job-they must be qualified..

Same with honors classes or student council. If met the academic criteria for honors-it was my right..If I were elected to an office it was my right to hold it.

I am sure I wouldn't have done sports regardless, wasn't my thing, I have cp btw, lots of students chose not to do sports..My point if someone wants a chance to earn something-they need to have that chance!

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Response to Lesmoderesstupides (Reply #58)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 02:48 PM

63. Thank you for siting a good example. And welcome to DU!

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Response to IDemo (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 03:53 PM

69. A Wonderful Use

of education dollars, now that all students graduate knowing how to read and comprehend, LD kids have all been taught to work around their issues, everybody can do basic math, and everybody who wants to go to college is prepared to go...oh, wait... Nevermind.

OK, so if you DO graduate prepared to go to college, with the ability to do basic math, read and comprehend, and have worked through any learning issues you have, you can go to law school and make a goldmine off this edict.

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Response to IDemo (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 05:08 PM

71. Right. We'll get right on it. Another mandate without money.

Arne the penniless blockhead strikes again.

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Response to IDemo (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 05:15 PM

74. This should help with the rural area's

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Response to IDemo (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 05:29 PM

76. Perhaps it is time to place sports activity into clubs, not in the schools.

American is of the few nations where sports is a priority in secondary education.
In addition, with the lack of resources for education, we should not be wasting money on sports.

The emphasis on sports in America's secondary schools is one of greatest shortcomings of the national education system.
The structure of American education (both public and private) is a deterrent for having children.

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Response to Dawson Leery (Reply #76)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 10:06 AM

84. +1

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Response to Crowman1979 (Reply #84)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 09:00 PM

87. Thank you for the support.

Many around here blindly support the concept and "importance" of school sports.

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Response to Dawson Leery (Reply #76)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 09:28 PM

88. That will probably help our obesity epidemic, the largest health crisis facing the nations youth.

Oh wait no it a stupid idea and would make sports unavailable for the children that need access to sports the most.

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Response to IDemo (Original post)

Fri Jan 25, 2013, 08:02 PM

81. If you watch south park,

did you think Duncan was introducing Sarcastaball to schools?

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Response to IDemo (Original post)

Sat Jan 26, 2013, 10:34 PM

90. I'm not quite sure how this will work in smaller school disctricts

What if there aren't enough disabled kids for a team, or what if you had enough for some sort of team but the kids all want to play different sports? And there are all different forms of disabilities and the spectrum could well be so vast that no one sport could cover it.

I like the idea, but am just unsure how it can/will be implemented.

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Response to Marrah_G (Reply #90)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 02:14 AM

94. I was disabled and have the same questions.

 

It's impossible to answer some questions. I could have gone pro if. I was good. This all makes me sick.

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Response to IDemo (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 01:30 AM

91. Happy dance

My screen name says it-I am disabled and my history of being a k thru 12 student twenty years ago makes me happy to see this !! As a disabled student 20 years ago playgrounds weren't accessible, buildings were barely so. And the main barrier was attitudes in school. every little thing I wanted to do extra, school play, go on a trip without my mom or join student council, I was told no or a huge deal was made. So huge of deal that I didn't even want to do it anymore.

Although what I encountered wasn't one percent of one percent of what the generation of african Americans went through after Brown Verse Board of ed-I do feel that I can relate in amall way of seeing each generation after myself reaching higher without even thinking it'd unusual for them to do so.

For those who say the money should be spent hiring extra staff. I was forced to have a full day aide, I absolutely in no way needed. I was victimized, every student in my school was victimized by both their learning environment being needlessly altered and by them getting the impression that disabled people cannot function without help..They lost whatever relationship they would have had with me. I lost whatever relationship I would have had with them. Every tax payer in my district was victimized for five years. Only people who won-the person that a job was created for and ignorant teachers who were too lazy to deal with me.

To people who say it's not possible to design mixed ability athletic programs-it is..Not every school needs to re-invent the wheel!! Copy either national recommendations or other districts

I am sick of people blaming "special needs students" for districts going broke. It is the cost of doing business!!! Education is failing and going broke. But thee whole system needs to be scrutinized and changed. Not just one group un-fairly blamed!! If you really want to cut out costs of the disabled; stop pharmaceutical companies from getting away with making products such as Pitocin and vaccines that cause lifelong disabilities in some just to drive up their profit margin

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Response to IDemo (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 02:11 AM

93. I was disable in High School

 

I'm sure many many other where as well. What does that mean for me?

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Response to Trascoli (Reply #93)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 07:50 AM

98. Separate leagues, eg: football, cheerleading, band,

spelling bees.

But, if you're no longer in school, it means nothing for you personally. But it could possibly help your kids, grandkids, etc.

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Response to IDemo (Original post)

Sun Jan 27, 2013, 03:25 AM

97. More I think about it..

I am on the side of people who say waste of money to run separate programs. We already have special Olympics for the purpose of giving every kid a chance to play sports in a supportive environment.. I am only for disabled kids to play on their school team to whatever extent they can.. Not everyone makes varsity, not every kid on the team plays on game day-ever!! If a kid whose only ok wants to practice everyday just so they don't have to be the only one in their group of friends not wearing a uniform every game day-let em!! If a kid is okay with "I am benched most games but I get bus rides to and from every game with my friends and attend team banquets" -beautiful! If a kid feels that more painful-then they can be like lots of other non-disabled kids and not do sports!

Some sports it should be no problem, bowling. Most ally's already have a the piece of equipment needed-no extra cost to the district!!! Certain sports will be better for certain kids. Again just like regular populations. And again just like regular populations-not every one can be on the football team so some join another sport cause they want to be part of a team. While others say dorky-screw it.

This doesn't take money-it takes thinking outside the box for every child who want's to join and for those who don't don't have to do so. No kid is required to play

As I said money isn't the answer my hs wasted more money on me!! Adaptive PE, I thought whatever the district's spending on this-is a waste of money. Could be better spent

It's not about money!!! It's about open minds!!

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