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Fri Jan 18, 2013, 01:50 PM

‘Firearms instructor’ hired as school guard leaves handgun in student bathroom

Source: Rawstory.com

A prosecutor in Lapeer, Michigan says, “No harm, no foul,” after a charter school took the National Rifle Association’s (NRA) advice and hired a armed security guard who promptly left his handgun unattended in a student bathroom.

Chatfield School co-directors Matt Young and Bill Kraly announced last week that they had hired retired Lapeer County Sheriff’s Dept. firearms instructor Clark Arnold as a security guard in response to the December mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut. “It’s a tremendous asset to the safety of our students,” Young told WNEM in a report that aired on Tuesday.

But by Wednesday, the school had admitted to The Flint Journal that the retired firearms instructor had made a “made a breach in security protocol” and left his unloaded handgun unattended in the school restroom “for a few moments.”

“The school has put additional security procedures in place that follow local law enforcement practices and guidelines,” a statement from Young said. “At no time was any student involved in this breach of protocol. We will continue to work on improving school security.” The school director insisted that the incident had been reported to authorities, but said that any repercussions for the newly hired guard were “a personnel matter.”


Read more: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/01/18/newly-hired-school-guard-leaves-unattended-handgun-in-student-bathroom/



68 replies, 7895 views

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Arrow 68 replies Author Time Post
Reply ‘Firearms instructor’ hired as school guard leaves handgun in student bathroom (Original post)
meegbear Jan 2013 OP
Paulie Jan 2013 #1
benld74 Jan 2013 #3
d06204 Jan 2013 #16
Heather MC Jan 2013 #54
tularetom Jan 2013 #2
rhett o rick Jan 2013 #18
caseymoz Jan 2013 #49
tularetom Jan 2013 #51
caseymoz Jan 2013 #53
tblue Jan 2013 #4
oldbanjo Jan 2013 #29
AtheistCrusader Jan 2013 #5
onehandle Jan 2013 #6
samsingh Jan 2013 #7
Beartracks Jan 2013 #38
samsingh Jan 2013 #40
Crunchy Frog Jan 2013 #8
Jefferson23 Jan 2013 #61
ajk2821 Jan 2013 #9
oldbanjo Jan 2013 #30
ancianita Jan 2013 #10
SpankMe Jan 2013 #13
ancianita Jan 2013 #22
oldbanjo Jan 2013 #31
ancianita Jan 2013 #34
DWinNJ Jan 2013 #43
Lordquinton Jan 2013 #39
ancianita Jan 2013 #46
Lordquinton Jan 2013 #47
ancianita Jan 2013 #48
Lordquinton Jan 2013 #62
ancianita Jan 2013 #63
Lordquinton Jan 2013 #66
ancianita Jan 2013 #67
malthaussen Jan 2013 #45
Liberalagogo Jan 2013 #11
louis-t Jan 2013 #12
rhett o rick Jan 2013 #20
ancianita Jan 2013 #23
Liberalagogo Jan 2013 #27
ancianita Jan 2013 #33
Liberalagogo Jan 2013 #35
ancianita Jan 2013 #37
wordpix Jan 2013 #59
ancianita Jan 2013 #60
catbyte Jan 2013 #14
nadinbrzezinski Jan 2013 #15
Chemisse Jan 2013 #17
goclark Jan 2013 #55
wordpix Jan 2013 #57
Chemisse Jan 2013 #65
goclark Feb 2013 #68
rhett o rick Jan 2013 #19
petronius Jan 2013 #25
SirRevolutionary Jan 2013 #52
thesquanderer Jan 2013 #21
jpak Jan 2013 #24
Politicalboi Jan 2013 #26
lexw Jan 2013 #28
wordpix Jan 2013 #58
supercats Jan 2013 #32
grahamhgreen Jan 2013 #36
underpants Jan 2013 #41
AlbertCat Jan 2013 #42
llmart Jan 2013 #44
caseymoz Jan 2013 #50
wordpix Jan 2013 #56
goclark Jan 2013 #64

Response to meegbear (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 01:58 PM

1. Unloaded gun like Barny Fife?

Bullshit that it was unloaded or that an unloaded guard gun is anything but theater for the NRA nuts. School admin should be fired but its an unaccountable charter.

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Response to Paulie (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 02:04 PM

3. Damn good thing his breast pocket was still buttoned!!!

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Response to Paulie (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 04:22 PM

16. I agree...

this "unloaded" bull is to try and convince you that shit don't really stink!

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Response to Paulie (Reply #1)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 10:57 PM

54. "He had one bullet for his pistol, had to keep it in his pocket. Ole my darling oh my darling.......

Ok I know I just aged myself but it was worth it
anyone else remember that line from Andy Griffth?

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Response to meegbear (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 02:00 PM

2. Not sure why a prosecutor was even called in this case

As far as I know stupidity and incompetence are not felonies.

But the school would be making a mistake not to immediately terminate this buffoon and consider paying a bit more to get someone who actually knows what the fuck he's doing.

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Response to tularetom (Reply #2)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 05:23 PM

18. Stupidity and incompetence become a problem when they endanger students. nm

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Response to tularetom (Reply #2)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 12:17 PM

49. If a kid would have gotten shot . . .


. . . he would have been charged with something even if "stupidity and incompetence are not felonies." Admit it; you'd probably change your tune if that happened.

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Response to caseymoz (Reply #49)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 01:42 PM

51. It isn't a matter of changing my tune

If a kid had been shot with the gun this asshole left in the bathroom a crime would have been committed and it would be proper for a prosecutor to get involved. But a kid wasn't shot and that's my point.

As it stands there is no crime and therefore no need for prosecution.

The school can and should deal with this as a personnel matter. In other words, fire this clown.

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Response to tularetom (Reply #51)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 02:34 PM

53. I'm not saying he should be prosecuted either.


What I'm saying is, it would have been the very same act of negligence whether a kid would have been killed or not-- that's the real crime. We try people for attempted murder or theft. We made drunk driving a crime whether you kill somebody doing it or not.The deciding factor on whether he should be tried here seems to be not whether a negligent crime took place, because it definitely did; it's really in how much the consequences pissed people off.

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Response to meegbear (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 02:08 PM

4. I don't know why people think being a security guard

means you are infallible. Guards are human and humans make mistakes, have issues, break down, have had bad childhoods and horrible weekends, overreact at times, get pissed at bad kids. Same as anybody. You don't put a gun in a school. Period.

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Response to tblue (Reply #4)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 07:39 PM

29. There are two armed cops at the school that my girlfriend is a book keeper at.

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Response to meegbear (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 02:09 PM

5. Why does this version of the story omit that he's a retired sherriff's deputy?

That he was a police officer non-relevant?

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Response to meegbear (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 02:12 PM

6. Nobody ever said that Rambo was smart. nt

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Response to meegbear (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 02:17 PM

7. many guns will lead to many problems

law of entropy

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Response to samsingh (Reply #7)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 02:10 AM

38. I like that.

Can I use that phrase?

=================

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Response to Beartracks (Reply #38)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 07:59 AM

40. absolutely

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Response to meegbear (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 02:29 PM

8. They'll need to hire armed guards for the armed guards.

Only more guns will take care of this problem.

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Response to Crunchy Frog (Reply #8)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 08:31 PM

61. ha ha

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Response to meegbear (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 02:29 PM

9. This is what I don't understand

We read and hear stories about people leaving laptops with national security information in Starbucks and other places. People leave their phones all over the place and find their private pictures leaked all over the internet. People make mistakes and leave things. If for no other reason than that one, schools do not need armed guards in them. This could have been horribly worse.

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Response to ajk2821 (Reply #9)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 07:43 PM

30. My girlfriend is a book keeper at a school that has two armed cops.

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Response to meegbear (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 02:38 PM

10. If this is some implied argument against guards, or national school security measures, it's a fail.

I'm no NRA supporter, either. But consider:

A structural flaw in a vast number of schools is bathrooms. Adults should not be sharing bathrooms with the student body (heh heh). Schools must remodel or re-purpose space for separate adult bathrooms. Then, if this happens, as it does with people who simply have 'too much to remember' in such high-stimulation environments, a student wouldn't have access to it. Such a structural change has the same justification as teacher lounges, offices, meeting rooms, etc.

For it to work everywhere else, people everywhere else have to stop cheaping out on their schools' bathroom structures. (I know how that sounds...) Forcing adults and students to use the same bathrooms is plain trashy stupid. It confuses students about the seriousness of the adult/child and student/teacher separation that help students understand adult boundaries.

I'm anti-NRA. But armed security at entrances/exits has worked in Chicago's hundreds of schools for the last fifteen years. Entrance/Exit armed security in the third largest city in the country, with NO within-school killings -- proves that armed security in schools does work -- when implemented correctly with qualified personnel.

Americans have to stop cheaping out on security personnel. Americans' school districts must, must stop leaving schools defenseless because some fake adult administrators and politicians screw up on the proper implementation of armed security for their school children.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #10)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 03:10 PM

13. Separate facilities for students and adults.

My son's elementary school has this. There are students-only bathrooms and adults/staff-only bathrooms. The rationale is pedophilia, not guns, but still.

Also, armed security makes sense at tough, inner city schools like in Chicago, L.A., NYC, etc. owing to gang problems and the like. Few are against that.

But changing the paradigm to put armed guards in "every school in America" isn't the way to go. The security profiles should match the school's environment and needs.

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Response to SpankMe (Reply #13)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 05:46 PM

22. Fine. Know your community's gun ownership. Know your community's health.

Newtown didn't. Everyone's kids shouldn't be subject to bad adult judgment.

Schools in Chicago are NOT full of "tough" kids "owing to gang problems." They are full of kids. Their world is no more full of guns than is the world of Newtown kids. Seeing an armed guard at entrance/exits in a school doesn't kill kids. Not having a guard because of ego needs of the appearance of safety has killed and continues to kill kids in schools.

Changing any paradigm means adapting to new realities. The majority of parents should investigate their communities and vote for the best security practices for ALL kids. One kid's parents' denial of risk shouldn't be the risk that another kid bears. Better for all to have the security and not need it than to need it and not have it.

If you want to frame this argument as an individual school issue, fine by me. Then each community and individual school should grieve about its mistakes and dead children alone. That's exactly what the NRA would like.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #22)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 07:48 PM

31. My girlfriend is a book keeper at a school that has two armed cops.

They make a lot of arrests during the year. This is a rural area and the nearest City has about 6,000 people.

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Response to oldbanjo (Reply #31)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 08:20 PM

34. Got it. ...and your point is...?

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Response to ancianita (Reply #34)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 09:27 AM

43. Practice makes perfect

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Response to ancianita (Reply #10)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 03:57 AM

39. Most schools do this already

but this was a charter school, which means they can have the classes taught in the bathrooms with rifles as pointers and no one can do a thing about it because there is no accountability.

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Response to Lordquinton (Reply #39)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 11:00 AM

46. If charter schools receive public tax monies, in principle, they're responsible to district boards.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #46)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 12:11 PM

47. in principle, yes

in practice, they can do pretty much whatever they want.

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Response to Lordquinton (Reply #47)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 12:16 PM

48. The public gets the level of accountability it demands. In principle. In practice, the public

can be accused of being lazy, although in all fairness, professional trustworthiness should rightly be assumed until proven otherwise.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #48)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 07:15 PM

62. I'm not sure if we agree

it sounds like it, but it also kinda sounds like you're placing the blame on the public. Of course that's the line they use to avoid any kind of oversight so it could go either way. Charter schools are run like businesses with public funds and so many road blocks to accountability, from fund allocation, to curriculum, to enrollment, and there isn't much we can do about it because no one aside from teachers, and their allies care that going on 2 generations of children are being deprived of their education, and that will only beget more generations, etc, et el.

It's a somewhat passionate issue for me, and all I can really do is rant on the internet to the choir.

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Response to Lordquinton (Reply #62)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 07:33 PM

63. I do place blame on the public, which has fallen asleep about holding taxpayer-funded

services that have visibly eroded over two generations. Maybe we don't agree on what schools should be. I don't accept charter schools as any viable alternative schooling choice for the public, especially since public schools have never been properly funded in the first place.

Public schooling is absolutely not a business but the public, so enamored with the rich, believe everything the rich and their patronage henchmen tell them to think. The rich never treat their kids' schools as businesses because they know that human capacity building isn't widget making. There should be no public subsidy of private profit.

The whole funding boondoggle politically named "reform" should be taken to court to disallow public funding of business-styled schools.

Charters pretty much say to the public what Romney said: "Don't ask me what the plan and the outcome will be right now. I'll let you know after I get the job."

As for using the internet to rant on pet issues, we have that in common.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #63)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 01:50 AM

66. No, we 100% agree on schools

I just learned today that my Governor wants to force 75% or so of public collages to online only, skyrocket tuition, gut grants, and generally make it night impossible to get an education in this state, which not 20 years ago had some of the best public education in the nation.

The public is partially to blame, but we are so overloaded with so much on a daily basis it's far too easy to miss things. Not even little things, but huge issues can completely slip by. I used to know every movie coming out, but these days there are major blockbusters and award winners that I have never heard of, and these are movies that I would really want to see. I'm a rather smart and observant person, so I can imagine how difficult it must be for the majority.

On top of that each individual is given ten different opinions and left to their own devices on what is the truth, when 9 of those things are lies, and the one true nugget is barely mentioned. All those "Both sides do it" "two equal sides to this story" and other strawmans that we all know too well.

So yes, partially the public is to blame, but when there is a nice smiling man who is swearing ten times to Sunday that he is telling the truth, and he would sooner cut off his own arm than lie, and it's not just one man, but 100 all saying the same thing, then it puts it in a bit of perspective. I place the blame on the liars, not the people who were lied to. Jail the criminals, not the victims.

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Response to Lordquinton (Reply #66)

Thu Jan 24, 2013, 05:22 AM

67. There are frameworks for knowing the truth. That's what high schools and colleges do for people --

help them determine their own levels of gullibility, credible information and the senders' credible authority. It's the old Aristotelian model of rhetoric, and that's just one reliable model. The problem is that given the 1st Amendment, we can't jail anyone for lying. We have to prove all claims of fraud, and yet racketeers can claim simple stupidity when any case gets made that points to their fraudulent intentions. It used to take decades for the signal of truth to gain traction in the white noise of economic and political racketeering, but now it's only taking a fraction of that.

Still. Business has decided that humans are widgets. If capitalists can't take the competition that comes from a fairer system of upward mobility through schooling, then they need to be driven out of the halls of public institutions and keep their vampire squid hands off our tax monies for kids and public services; they need to be made to stay out there in the red tooth and claw world of their 'free' markets. Our schools are being ruined because capitalists have turned to other countries' grads' expertise. Our people are no longer the spending priority of their own state and federal governments.

We need to push hard to drive the money out of politics and reclaim a curriculum that serves all people well.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #10)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 09:51 AM

45. Did you ever hear the joke about the English gentleman...

... who was chalking lines around the perimeters of his club? When asked why he was doing it, he said, "To keep the lions out of England!"
"But there are no lions in England!"
"See? It works."

-- Mal

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Response to meegbear (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 02:51 PM

11. This wouldn't have happened

if the security guard had been armed.

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Response to Liberalagogo (Reply #11)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 03:01 PM

12. Oh, wait.....

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Response to Liberalagogo (Reply #11)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 05:26 PM

20. Armed with a brain. nm

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Response to Liberalagogo (Reply #11)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 05:52 PM

23. Be sarcastic, but it hasn't happened to 400,000 Chicago kids.

Big cities are the first place to come under fire if such shootings were to happen.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #23)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 07:02 PM

27. Sense of humor

Get one.

I wouldn't snark this if people died or were injured. Yes, it's serious, but if you have a problem with remarks like this, about a situation where someone was EXTEMELY stupid, but no one got hurt, I suggest you NEVER watch The Daily Show or The Colbert Report.

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Response to Liberalagogo (Reply #27)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 08:14 PM

33. Too late. Been watching them since 2000 and still serious about kids' school security.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #33)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 09:10 PM

35. Whoosh

right over your head.

Enjoy your humorless life.

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Response to Liberalagogo (Reply #35)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 10:44 PM

37. LOL Fresh from some DU Jury complaint, eh? Lurk more, lecture less.

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Response to ancianita (Reply #23)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 11:55 PM

59. I know my inner city school's security inside and out. Trust me, there are holes

There are guards, there are metal detectors, there are locked doors. But there are holes in the security, big ones.

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Response to wordpix (Reply #59)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 01:34 AM

60. Interesting. Perhaps factulty/ admins/ staff/ student bodies need an internal photo ID system. All

Chicago high schools have them, which really helps ID trespassers. Each school has many exits but only one main entrance. The large high schools with many doors have only one entrance per building. There are internal cameras in remote areas, paid for through fundraising groups -- alums, community people and the Local School Council.

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Response to meegbear (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 03:31 PM

14. In the immortal words of Bugs Bunny, "What a maroon..."

And in Michigan, too. Figures, LOL.

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Response to meegbear (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 04:08 PM

15. Ok, I see this will work...

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Response to meegbear (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 04:40 PM

17. This is one of the many reasons why there should be no guns in schools - none.

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Response to Chemisse (Reply #17)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 11:34 PM

55. Former School Administrator Here


I am in favor of School Security -- just don't think Guns are the answer.

There generally are Security Plans in place for each school.
Without a doubt, each School District is working on a variety of Safety Measures that will address this critical issue.








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Response to goclark (Reply #55)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 11:49 PM

57. teacher in inner city schools here, I agree

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Response to goclark (Reply #55)

Wed Jan 23, 2013, 07:31 AM

65. If there must be enhanced security, I think it should come in the form of

Metal detectors at the doors. Intimidating and prisonlike, but preferable to guns inside the premises.

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Response to Chemisse (Reply #65)

Wed Feb 6, 2013, 07:32 PM

68. Absolutely agree!

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Response to meegbear (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 05:24 PM

19. I am cornfused. Is he a good guy with a gun or a bad guy with a gun? nm

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #19)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 06:09 PM

25. Neither - he doesn't have a gun...

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #19)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 01:46 PM

52. Crazy Wayne would tell you

he was a good guy with a gun, who became a good guy without a gun. Then I guess he was a bad guy without a gun until he got his gun back. Then Wayne would tell you the solution here is simple. Just hire another good guy with a gun to watch the first guy with/without his gun and from there... Owwww, my brain hurts now.

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Response to meegbear (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 05:43 PM

21. Armed guards in schools. What could go wrong? (nt)

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Response to meegbear (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 06:07 PM

24. Dumbass charter schools + dumbass gun nuts = dead kids

yup

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Response to meegbear (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 06:18 PM

26. The bullet was in his pocket

It's Barney Fife all over again.

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Response to meegbear (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 07:28 PM

28. What's to say these armed guards won't one day up and go nuts.

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Response to lexw (Reply #28)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 11:50 PM

58. it's a possibility for sure

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Response to meegbear (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 08:10 PM

32. Hilarious!!!

When I read the headline I burst out laughing....Tomorrow I believe is national gun awareness day, (or something like that). So I was thinking that the NRA should arm every student through high school, that shows up on monday, just for the day, so that they can bring ultimate safety to each and every school throughout America, and celebrate national gun awareness day in fashion.....what could go wrong?

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Response to meegbear (Original post)

Fri Jan 18, 2013, 10:29 PM

36. Cops in schools = police state.

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Response to meegbear (Original post)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 08:05 AM

41. “made a breach in security protocol”

Newspeak

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Response to meegbear (Original post)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 09:14 AM

42. “No harm, no foul,”

But there was a foul! There was a friggin' gun left in a bathroom!

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Response to meegbear (Original post)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 09:32 AM

44. Lapeer County, Michigan =

rightwing, teabagger, gun nutter area.

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Response to meegbear (Original post)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 12:22 PM

50. I'm waiting for one of these armed guards . . .


. . . or armed teachers to go postal. Let's face it, working with kids takes patience, teachers are underpaid, and the stress and work hours are can be tough.

So, do we really want to hand them the means to kill when they could have a bad moment?

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Response to meegbear (Original post)

Sat Jan 19, 2013, 11:47 PM

56. multiply this incident by thousands of harried teachers & principals carrying weapons

and you'll have an NRA wet dream

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Response to wordpix (Reply #56)

Tue Jan 22, 2013, 01:20 PM

64. I think the Officers of the NRA should

install the weapons in the schools of their children/grandchildren.
Of course the NRA would pay for the Officers -- not the government!

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