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Tue Dec 4, 2012, 12:25 PM

Missouri Lawmaker Wants Stores Closed for Thanksgiving

Source: AP

JEFFERSON CITY (AP) - A Missouri Democratic lawmaker is trying to stop "black Friday" shopping from ruining the Thanksgiving dinners of workers.

House member Jeff Roorda, of Barnhart, plans legislation that would prohibit retail stores from opening on Thanksgiving.

He has dubbed it the "Thanksgiving Family Protection Act" and says the holiday should be about families and not about profit or greed. He says Thanksgiving should not become "black Friday eve."

Read more: http://www.komu.com/news/missouri-lawmaker-wants-stores-closed-for-thanksgiving/

41 replies, 5438 views

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Arrow 41 replies Author Time Post
Reply Missouri Lawmaker Wants Stores Closed for Thanksgiving (Original post)
pstokely Dec 2012 OP
TreasonousBastard Dec 2012 #1
Jeff In Milwaukee Dec 2012 #3
TreasonousBastard Dec 2012 #38
bowens43 Dec 2012 #2
liberal N proud Dec 2012 #4
cynatnite Dec 2012 #5
Sweet Freedom Dec 2012 #37
dbackjon Dec 2012 #6
Arkana Dec 2012 #7
Hayabusa Dec 2012 #19
onenote Dec 2012 #24
HockeyMom Dec 2012 #27
rhett o rick Dec 2012 #35
1ProudAtheist Dec 2012 #8
rhett o rick Dec 2012 #36
tinrobot Dec 2012 #9
muriel_volestrangler Dec 2012 #14
onenote Dec 2012 #25
truthisfreedom Dec 2012 #10
xchrom Dec 2012 #11
jonesgirl Dec 2012 #12
barbtries Dec 2012 #16
jonesgirl Dec 2012 #18
randome Dec 2012 #13
barbtries Dec 2012 #15
rosesaylavee Dec 2012 #17
barbtries Dec 2012 #20
ErikJ Dec 2012 #22
rosesaylavee Dec 2012 #41
onenote Dec 2012 #21
JDPriestly Dec 2012 #23
Atman Dec 2012 #28
JDPriestly Dec 2012 #30
onenote Dec 2012 #32
JDPriestly Dec 2012 #39
Atman Dec 2012 #33
Atman Dec 2012 #26
Yupy Dec 2012 #29
allan01 Dec 2012 #31
rhett o rick Dec 2012 #34
ButterflyBlood Dec 2012 #40

Response to pstokely (Original post)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 12:32 PM

1. Not such a bad idea. The old "blue laws" may have been too restictive, but...

now it's gotten insane.

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Response to TreasonousBastard (Reply #1)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 12:37 PM

3. Can't cities do this?

I would think that local ordinances would prohibit retailers from activities during certain hours.

You know, it sucks for cities because they probably have to ramp up their services that day (police patrols, et. al.) because people aren't home in bed, but getting into fist-fights over the last Tickle Me Elmo.

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Response to Jeff In Milwaukee (Reply #3)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 05:10 PM

38. Sure they can. Paramus NJ is shut down on Sundays and has been for years...

although I heard something about Christie recently trying to repeal the ban.

When I lived in NJ, I remember some bitching from Jewish and Muslim merchants about being closed on Saturday by religious law and then Sunday by Paramus law. Not good losing the entire weekend.

Paramus on Sundays was a garden of tranquility in the Garden State.

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Response to pstokely (Original post)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 12:35 PM

2. wow. what a dumb ass....

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Response to pstokely (Original post)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 12:38 PM

4. Missouri was one of the later states to eliminate blue laws

It was active until 1985.

Walmart was a heavy lobbiest to eliminated those laws and now we know why.

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Response to pstokely (Original post)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 12:39 PM

5. The only solution for this is for people not to shop...

and that's not going to happen.

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Response to cynatnite (Reply #5)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 04:53 PM

37. True, but now they make it an incentive

I went appliance shopping the weekend before Thanksgiving. I was told that at 8 pm on Thanksgiving night, the appliance would be one-third cheaper and when I told them I didn't want to come that day, they added perks -- free delivery -- a third off of installation. They would not make the same deal for Black Friday and would not take an order over the phone.

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Response to pstokely (Original post)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 12:40 PM

6. Stupid idea

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Response to pstokely (Original post)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 12:45 PM

7. Good for him.

As far as I'm concerned, unless it's a hospital it probably shouldn't be open on Thanksgiving.

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Response to Arkana (Reply #7)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 01:54 PM

19. Grocerie Stores

I don't know about you, but I know that I've had to make emergency runs on Thanksgiving. Including one this year.

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Response to Arkana (Reply #7)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 03:01 PM

24. gas stations? the power company? the gas company? the water company? drug stores?

There are many types of businesses that need to have people working every day of the year. Most try to get by on a skeleton staff, but the fact remains that not everyone gets Thanksgiving off. Why should people in one type of work be more protected than those that have chosen other lines of work?

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Response to onenote (Reply #24)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 03:13 PM

27. Group Homes

for the developmentally disabled. SOMEBODY has to be with them 24/7. I worked Overnight shift so I could still have (a very tired) Holiday with my family, although I was paid double time for these Holidays and had a very, very nice benefits package.

My daughter works in retail (LP) and they get none of the above. Besides, caring for those who cannot care for themselves is worth far more than some shopper getting a "grand bargain" on Thanksgiving.

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Response to Arkana (Reply #7)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 03:56 PM

35. I dont understand. Why? nm

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Response to pstokely (Original post)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 12:46 PM

8. My Wife Is A 25

 

year veteran of Wal-Mart. I hate it. She hates it. I have had major health issues including heart surgeries. She is job-tied because of the insurance mess. We haven't had a normal Thanksgiving in 2 decades. This year, she had to be at work at 9:00 PM Thanksgiving night. Up until this year, it was always 10:00PM or later. She now works overnight to get the extra incintive pay, and has been told that she will have to be at work at 10:00 PM on Christmas night.

I am so looking forward to Obamacare making it possible for her to leave Wal-Mart and allow for me to continue to have healthcare insurance. She is already searching for a job, and we stand to gain a huge chunk of money from her retirement account when she leaves. We will be able to pay off everything that we owe, and have enough money to pay for COBRA for 6 months while she becomes eligible for insurance at a new job.

Being on disability limits my options, but getting her away from Wal-Mart has been my top priority for nearly a decade now, and it is so close that I can smell it.

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Response to 1ProudAtheist (Reply #8)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 04:03 PM

36. What a great idea. I think we should go even farther. Lets have a Freedom day and force everyone

to celebrate. Close everything. Require everyone to fly their flag of freedom and say "I am free, I am free, that you Walmart, I am free" 17 thousand times while facing toward Arkansas

But whatever you do, do not say the H-words that sound like Sappy Solidays.

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Response to pstokely (Original post)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 12:50 PM

9. Think of it as an extension of labor laws

It's not a dumb idea to have a 40 hour work week, vacation, holidays, sick leave, maternity leave, etc.

I don't see how making Thanksgiving a mandatory holiday is such a bad thing for retail workers.

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Response to tinrobot (Reply #9)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 01:15 PM

14. Or say that every worker has the right to negotiate a rate for the day

with or without the help of a union to negotiate on their behalf. So if a worker says they want $500 to work Thanksgiving evening, the company owner can take it or not, and cannot discriminate against any individual who declines to work, or asks for more than it's worth to the employer. And if the employer can't persuade the key workers to work on Thanksgiving, that's the employer's tough luck - everyone gets the holiday.

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Response to tinrobot (Reply #9)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 03:02 PM

25. What makes "retail" workers more special than other workers?

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Response to pstokely (Original post)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 12:53 PM

10. As Jon Stewart said last night, look out Halloween.

Christmas has eaten Thanksgiving.

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Response to pstokely (Original post)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 01:06 PM

11. Good. Nt

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Response to pstokely (Original post)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 01:10 PM

12. Everything old is new again. Remember when all businesses were closed on holidays, and on Sundays?

Consumers survived, and so did the businesses.

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Response to jonesgirl (Reply #12)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 01:19 PM

16. that was back in the day

when minimum wage could actually pay the rent. ahhhh the good old days. my parents bought a lovely 4 bedroom tract home with 2 bathrooms and yards in the front and back for $300 down and less than a $100/month.

i was a newborn then, and will be a corpse before it ever goes back if it ever does.

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Response to barbtries (Reply #16)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 01:47 PM

18. I was a youngster then. It goes to show how much Wall Street has damaged America, and that everyone

can't be investors.

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Response to pstokely (Original post)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 01:15 PM

13. The only thing worse than a pro-Corporate politician...

...is a sincere religionist. If we're lucky, we'll get to see them fight each other.

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Response to pstokely (Original post)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 01:17 PM

15. wasting time imo

stores are open on christmas, 4th of july, new years...some are open 365 days. it's up to the merchant.

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Response to pstokely (Original post)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 01:38 PM

17. Good for him.

I know several families who didn't have Thanksgiving because one or more of them were working.

Why would this be up to the merchants to decide? good lord, yes, of course what am I thinking. OF COURSE the corporations know best and have our best interests in mind when they make decisions that all must work on Black Friday eve.

Can't believe some of the posts on this thread.

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Response to rosesaylavee (Reply #17)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 02:19 PM

20. really?

you can't believe that a democrat could believe that the merchant decides the hours the store is open? who should decide that?

by the way i'm not saying it doesn't suck. i don't shop those days. the way to get those stores closed on those days is to get shoppers to stay away. clearly they are not staying away.

i've gone out to dinner on christmas though. someone waited on me and it may have sucked for her/him. or maybe the person was away from her family and happy to be out making money. who knows?

i just don't believe there should be a law. these are family days it's true but not everyone has a family or is able to be with their family on the holidays.

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Response to barbtries (Reply #20)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 03:00 PM

22. Christmas is technically for Christians

That's why so many Chinese restaurants are open on Christams day.

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Response to barbtries (Reply #20)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 09:51 PM

41. Yes, I think it's a good thing.

I think weekends are good things too. And 40 hour work weeks.

I have friends and family who have had their holidays taken from them. The merchants make the money and it sucks to work your ass off for the equivalent of $50 on a holiday. If you haven't had to work, you should try it and try to imagine that some people have no choice but to work in retail as that is the only places hiring.

I think a law would be dandy.

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Response to pstokely (Original post)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 02:57 PM

21. blue laws are inevitably arbitrary and unfair

As others have said, the reason more and more stores open on Thanksgiving is that there is enough demand from shoppers to justify it. Moreover, a law that bars some businesses from operating on Thanksgiving, but not others is inherently arbitrary. Should grocery stores be required to close? Many do, but others stay open for some portion of the day, often making it possible for people to "rescue" their Thanksgiving meal. What about drug stores? Obviously they should be allowed to stay open since the unexpected need for medical supplies does not disappear on Thanksgiving. But most drug stores sell other things -- a lot of the same things one finds in other stores -- so should they be allowed to be open but other stores selling the same types of items must close? What about movie theaters-- because of Superstorm Sandy, my family ended up having Thanksgiving dinner with friends on the Sunday before Thanksgiving. On Thanksgiving, my wife and I cooked ourselves an early dinner and then went to the movies. Gas stations are an obvious exception, but they often sell food stuffs and other things one might purchase at another type of store.
If its okay to buy batteries at a grocery store, a drug store, or a gas station on Thanksgiving, why should Radio Shack have to close?

If its about the workers and their families, why do the workers at Wal Mart or Macy's or some other clothing or department store be more "protected" than workers at other types of business establishments?

I grew up in a state that had Sunday closing blue laws and I hated them. I had an uncle who was an observant Jew and he had a shoe store. To honor his religious beliefs, he would stay closed on Saturday. But by law, he also had to close on Sunday, giving his competitors one more day to do business than he had. These laws laughably were upheld in the 60s by the courts based on the fiction that they were not religious in nature but were intended to ensure that workers had a day off. But a law that says you can only be open six days a week without specifying which day you must close would accomplish that goal. It was also argued that it was important for society that there be a common "uniform" day of rest -- but as noted, these laws were and continue to be riddled with exceptions making them anything but "uniform." There is no rational basis for mandating that car dealership be closed on Sundays or that alcohol not be sold on Sundays --two of the more common remaining "blue laws" found in many jurisdictions.

The world has changed since the era of blue laws. We are more spread out, more mobile, more flexible in when, how, and where we work. You can shut down stores, but with the internet, you can't shut down commerce. Forcing brick and mortar businesses to close simply makes no sense. In a diverse society, not everyone celebrates Thanksgiving in some traditional Norman Rockwell way, and trying to turn back the clock with silly laws will not change that.

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Response to pstokely (Original post)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 03:01 PM

23. I am for this also. I do not shop on Thanksgiving.

No way. People deserve a day to be thankful and enjoy family and friends. All people deserve a day to be thankful and enjoy family and friends.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #23)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 03:14 PM

28. What if you're not thankful, and your friends are dicks and your family is dead?

So the Government tells us we HAVE TO BE "thankful?" So sit home by yourself and wish your parents were still alive, and your brother wasn't in prison, and that you could actually afford a turkey. Whose right is it to dictate this (btw, I'm not describing my situation, just reminding that there are more than 300,000,000 people in America, and we don't all share a fortunate life).

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Response to Atman (Reply #28)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 03:17 PM

30. The government has the right to enforce a day of respite

for working people.

You don't have to have a fortunate life to enjoy a day of peace and quiet and no work. If you just take a walk in a park or call a friend, that is restful.

If you don't have family or friends, volunteer to help others on Thanksgiving. Find a shelter or hospice in your area and, if you have nothing more, share your good health (or at least not so bad health) with others. Do the same on Christmas. It isn't about religion. It is about remembering we are human beings and not speechless animals.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #30)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 03:25 PM

32. Then impose a limit on the number of days or hours that people can be required to work

But the fact is that blue laws are never "uniform" and never apply to all working people. There are always exceptions. Why should someone who has chosen one line of work be entitled to a government mandated uniform day off? Why should people who have that day off be denied the opportunity, by government fiat, to use that time off to run errands, do some things that might make their otherwise hectic work week a bit easier? Heck, if there is such a requirement, shouldn't it apply to Labor Day rather than Thanksgiving?

And of course its about religion. If it wasn't, then Labor Day would be that day off.

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Response to onenote (Reply #32)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 11:09 PM

39. Labor Day would be fine.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #30)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 03:26 PM

33. But as a practical matter, many of us are speechless animals.

Just sayin'.

Again, you're making assumptions/presumptions about what we "should" do. I you feel Walmart should stay closed on Thanksgiving Evening, write them a letter, refuse to patronize them. But there are apparently enough people in America who don't feel the same way you do. Why should the government be telling them to stay home and "reflect," or go feed some homeless people? Shouldn't these be personal choices?

If we, as a nation, refused to make it profitable for Walmart to open on Thanksgiving, they wouldn't open. I don't want the government telling me I have to "reflect" any more than I want them to demand that I attend a church.

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Response to pstokely (Original post)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 03:11 PM

26. So every American has to believe in the same traditions?

That's sad.

In Connecticut, the "blue laws" on package stores just got lifted. But funny thing is, they weren't actually for religious reasons or temperance, etc. They were all about protecting small Mom & Pop package stores from competition from big chain stores. Up until recently, all package stores had to close by 8:00 pm, and couldn't open at all on Sundays. We changed the closing time to 9:00 a few years ago, but only opened on Sunday starting this year. Yet, you can drive 30 minutes to Rhode Island or Massachusetts and the stores are open until 11:00, and open on Sundays, too. It's totally arbitrary, and totally ridiculous.

I don't think anyone should be forced to celebrate "Thanksgiving," which a lot of history tells us really might not have been something to be all that thankful for. Maybe your life sucks and you're NOT thankful, and would rather earn a paycheck so you can pay your bills. Maybe you hate Santa Claus. Maybe you're an atheist. If you disagree so adamantly, you'll be among those who stay home and celebrate with your family instead of camping out at the store for two days to buy a cheap tv.

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Response to pstokely (Original post)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 03:17 PM

29. REMEMBER THE VALUES: family is more important than shopping, RIGHT?

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Response to pstokely (Original post)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 03:19 PM

31. re:Missouri Lawmaker Wants Stores Closed for Thanksgiving

how does this solve their state budget problem . hmmmm ??? i dont get it .

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Response to pstokely (Original post)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 03:54 PM

34. We allow idiots to buy guns anytime but we will not allow shopping on Thanksgiving?

Unbefuckingbeliveable.

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Response to pstokely (Original post)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 12:04 AM

40. I would support this

Good for him.

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