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Sun Dec 2, 2012, 05:46 PM

Israel settlement bid a 'fatal blow' to peace: Ban

Source: AFP

UNITED NATIONS — UN leader Ban Ki-moon warned Sunday that if Israel implemented its latest plan for new settlements it would deal an "almost fatal blow" to any prospects for peace with the Palestinians.

--snip--

"It was with grave concern and disappointment that the secretary general learned of Israel's announcement of 3,000 new settlement units in east Jerusalem and other parts of the West Bank," a statement from Ban's spokesman said.

"This would include reported planning in the so-called E1 envelope, which risks completely cutting off east Jerusalem from the rest of the West Bank," the statement said.

"Settlements are illegal under international law and, should the E1 settlement be constructed, it would represent an almost fatal blow to remaining chances of securing a two-state solution."

Read more: http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jBe7qy6pBheonWBU-8dgk0EEFaJw?docId=CNG.b19c92489e1389e5dafe467dd258b00e.441



This has been going downhill fast since yesterday when Israel announced their new construction "plan", but it's kind of surprising to hear Ban Ki-moon speak this openly about how bad the situation is.

The mask is gone, the land grab is on. I can only imagine how this new construction is going to play out in the next six months or what's going to happen to the human beings who inconvenience Israel with their residency.

PB

175 replies, 16132 views

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Reply Israel settlement bid a 'fatal blow' to peace: Ban (Original post)
Poll_Blind Dec 2012 OP
craigmatic Dec 2012 #1
Poll_Blind Dec 2012 #3
cosmicone Dec 2012 #10
Walk away Dec 2012 #106
sabrina 1 Dec 2012 #148
Zoeisright Dec 2012 #170
KimonoGirl Dec 2012 #2
SoapBox Dec 2012 #6
AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #4
1ProudAtheist Dec 2012 #5
Great Caesars Ghost Dec 2012 #12
go west young man Dec 2012 #15
Bigmack Dec 2012 #25
Mosby Dec 2012 #107
Odin2005 Dec 2012 #37
dlwickham Dec 2012 #53
Mosby Dec 2012 #102
Ken Burch Dec 2012 #141
atreides1 Dec 2012 #7
Poll_Blind Dec 2012 #8
Paulie Dec 2012 #9
cpwm17 Dec 2012 #11
King_David Dec 2012 #19
geek tragedy Dec 2012 #28
King_David Dec 2012 #41
geek tragedy Dec 2012 #60
Mosby Dec 2012 #95
geek tragedy Dec 2012 #97
Mosby Dec 2012 #99
geek tragedy Dec 2012 #100
ForgoTheConsequence Dec 2012 #103
cpwm17 Dec 2012 #39
King_David Dec 2012 #42
cpwm17 Dec 2012 #50
King_David Dec 2012 #55
azurnoir Dec 2012 #64
King_David Dec 2012 #72
azurnoir Dec 2012 #136
Violet_Crumble Dec 2012 #67
King_David Dec 2012 #71
Violet_Crumble Dec 2012 #73
Ken Burch Dec 2012 #142
azurnoir Dec 2012 #63
R. Daneel Olivaw Dec 2012 #137
magical thyme Dec 2012 #16
King_David Dec 2012 #20
virgogal Dec 2012 #24
Paulie Dec 2012 #45
King_David Dec 2012 #56
Paulie Dec 2012 #57
Stewland Dec 2012 #13
former9thward Dec 2012 #14
magical thyme Dec 2012 #17
King_David Dec 2012 #26
The Stranger Dec 2012 #108
byeya Dec 2012 #121
King_David Dec 2012 #126
cpwm17 Dec 2012 #139
King_David Dec 2012 #144
cpwm17 Dec 2012 #145
King_David Dec 2012 #146
cpwm17 Dec 2012 #147
King_David Dec 2012 #149
cpwm17 Dec 2012 #150
King_David Dec 2012 #152
cpwm17 Dec 2012 #155
King_David Dec 2012 #156
cpwm17 Dec 2012 #159
King_David Dec 2012 #160
Carolina Dec 2012 #163
go west young man Dec 2012 #18
1ProudAtheist Dec 2012 #22
former9thward Dec 2012 #27
geek tragedy Dec 2012 #31
1ProudAtheist Dec 2012 #35
billh58 Dec 2012 #30
former9thward Dec 2012 #59
Comrade Grumpy Dec 2012 #44
former9thward Dec 2012 #58
Comrade Grumpy Dec 2012 #96
Stewland Dec 2012 #169
King_David Dec 2012 #21
1ProudAtheist Dec 2012 #29
Bigmack Dec 2012 #33
King_David Dec 2012 #43
fascisthunter Dec 2012 #51
King_David Dec 2012 #61
Violet_Crumble Dec 2012 #68
King_David Dec 2012 #70
Violet_Crumble Dec 2012 #74
King_David Dec 2012 #75
Violet_Crumble Dec 2012 #76
sabbat hunter Dec 2012 #111
geek tragedy Dec 2012 #83
King_David Dec 2012 #128
fascisthunter Dec 2012 #49
Walk away Dec 2012 #112
freshwest Dec 2012 #52
King_David Dec 2012 #133
slackmaster Dec 2012 #90
freshwest Dec 2012 #140
geek tragedy Dec 2012 #23
Jefferson23 Dec 2012 #32
Odin2005 Dec 2012 #34
oberliner Dec 2012 #40
Comrade Grumpy Dec 2012 #46
Odin2005 Dec 2012 #48
oberliner Dec 2012 #79
King_David Dec 2012 #62
oberliner Dec 2012 #80
Odin2005 Dec 2012 #47
Bad_Ronald Dec 2012 #78
oberliner Dec 2012 #82
Bad_Ronald Dec 2012 #84
geek tragedy Dec 2012 #86
oberliner Dec 2012 #91
geek tragedy Dec 2012 #93
oberliner Dec 2012 #131
geek tragedy Dec 2012 #134
Walk away Dec 2012 #114
oberliner Dec 2012 #132
Bad_Ronald Dec 2012 #115
oberliner Dec 2012 #116
Bad_Ronald Dec 2012 #118
oberliner Dec 2012 #124
Bad_Ronald Dec 2012 #125
oberliner Dec 2012 #127
King_David Dec 2012 #130
oberliner Dec 2012 #81
Bad_Ronald Dec 2012 #88
oberliner Dec 2012 #92
Bad_Ronald Dec 2012 #122
oberliner Dec 2012 #129
Bad_Ronald Dec 2012 #143
L0oniX Dec 2012 #36
Crunchy Frog Dec 2012 #66
Xolodno Dec 2012 #38
4dsc Dec 2012 #54
Fozzledick Dec 2012 #65
Chef Eric Dec 2012 #77
harun Dec 2012 #105
Chef Eric Dec 2012 #113
harun Dec 2012 #151
geek tragedy Dec 2012 #85
hack89 Dec 2012 #94
geek tragedy Dec 2012 #98
The Stranger Dec 2012 #109
hack89 Dec 2012 #110
The Stranger Dec 2012 #135
hack89 Dec 2012 #138
The Stranger Dec 2012 #153
hack89 Dec 2012 #154
The Stranger Dec 2012 #157
hack89 Dec 2012 #158
The Stranger Dec 2012 #161
hack89 Dec 2012 #162
The Stranger Dec 2012 #165
hack89 Dec 2012 #166
The Stranger Dec 2012 #167
hack89 Dec 2012 #168
The Stranger Dec 2012 #171
hack89 Dec 2012 #172
The Stranger Dec 2012 #173
hack89 Dec 2012 #174
Ken Burch Dec 2012 #69
Franker65 Dec 2012 #87
slackmaster Dec 2012 #89
geek tragedy Dec 2012 #101
Hydra Dec 2012 #117
geek tragedy Dec 2012 #120
Hydra Dec 2012 #123
Carolina Dec 2012 #164
harun Dec 2012 #104
Hydra Dec 2012 #119
kiranon Dec 2012 #175

Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 05:52 PM

1. Israel's government was never interested in peace. It's always been a land grab since at least the

1970's. Their politics are completely right wing and their politicians are more ready to fight than negotiate. This settlement plan will benefit their conservatives because it gives them more land and more wars which will keep them winning elections.

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Response to craigmatic (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 05:55 PM

3. I may be naive, but I believe if the government turned around and Labor won...

...we would see an entirely different picture than we do, today.

Unfortunately, a Labor win, or any kind of win for Leftist elements in Israel is exceedingly slim.

Exceeding slim.

PB

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Response to craigmatic (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 06:49 PM

10. +1000 n/t

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Response to craigmatic (Reply #1)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 01:09 PM

106. +1000000!

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Response to craigmatic (Reply #1)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 04:27 AM

148. Europeans apparently are no longer taking their lead from the US. Several countries have

stated they will no longer buy goods from the Settlers. Why they ever did is a mystery, probably because we told them to. But now that everyone knows that while Governments were claiming they opposed the settlements, they were at the same time buying millions of dollars worth of goods from, while buy only a fraction from the Palestinians.

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Response to craigmatic (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 11:54 PM

170. Exactly.

The abused child has grown up to become the abuser.

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 05:52 PM

2. Israel's provocations are SO transparent n/t

 

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Response to KimonoGirl (Reply #2)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 06:04 PM

6. Ditto.

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)


Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 06:03 PM

5. The Zionist's Have No Interest In Peace

 

Just like America, the more liberal factions of Israel want peace and an end to the bloodshed, but the right-wing extremists that are currently in power there only have a desire to methodically exterminate their opposition. Holding those boots to the throats of the Palestinian people will only further the resentment and encite the retributions.

I feel the same way towards the people of Israel as I do towards the people of our country........I support the liberals and the progressives, while I loathe the extremists and the conservatives. Bebe should be held in the same prison as The Village Idiot and his National Dick. They are war criminals and tyrants of the first class. Bebe and The Village Idiot each killed more innocent foreigners than Sadaam ever did. At least the Iraqi people had the decency to do the right thing with Sadaam..........Americans and Israelis don't have the gumption.

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Response to 1ProudAtheist (Reply #5)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 07:10 PM

12. 100000000000000000000% correct

 

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Response to 1ProudAtheist (Reply #5)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 07:59 PM

15. Well put.

I'm so tired of many of the Dems who support Israel at any cost. The emperor has no clothes at this point. America needs to cut off aid to this aggressive right wing state. They are the biggest danger in the ME at this point as they are over reactionary religious fundamentalists with a serious arsenal.

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Response to go west young man (Reply #15)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 08:26 PM

25. YES YES YES!!!!!!

Could NOT agree MORE! GREAT book - Mornings in Jenin - by a Palestinian woman.

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Response to Bigmack (Reply #25)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 01:10 PM

107. that book is fictional - you know that right?

And the authors decriptions of the 48 war and the village of ein hod are filled with innacuracies.

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Response to 1ProudAtheist (Reply #5)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 08:46 PM

37. The religious nuts are out-reproducing the liberal Israelis

It is mainly the religious nuts in these settlements. I remember hearing an interview of one of these settlers a while back during the Intifada a few years back and she insisted that the West bank was THEIR land, given to them by GAWD.

These are the nuts who murdered Yitzak Rabin. They control the Israeli state, now.

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Response to 1ProudAtheist (Reply #5)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 10:18 PM

53. there are liberal Zionists

you do realize that, don't you?

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Response to 1ProudAtheist (Reply #5)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:57 PM

102. sadaam murdered a million Iraqis

And more than 1/2 million Iranians.

Your rabid antizionism is starting to affect your reasoning ability, just saying.

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Response to Mosby (Reply #102)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 08:32 PM

141. Your observation about Saddam would be valid

if his regime had been receiving more U.S. aid than any other country in the world, and if he had occupied Iran and begun building illegal Iraqi settlements there.

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 06:10 PM

7. A question.

Does anyone really believe that these plans were not already in the works...and all that Israel was waiting for was a bullshit excuse to just go ahead with what they had already planned to do?

Israel under Netanyahu never wanted peace or a two state solution!

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Response to atreides1 (Reply #7)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 06:19 PM

8. I believe that Netanyahu's ultra-conservative government will be...

...making moves over a much shorter span of time, now, than it originally intended. But the play is the same. The rapidity with which it is carried out is the only thing that differs, IMO.

A two-state solution was merely a ruse, a stalling tactic for Netanyahu to slowly take over land, especially in Jerusalem. Without that excuse to befuddle and obfuscate (though, honestly, very few are fooled, worldwide) there is nothing left but a naked land grab.

The move in the UN also puts pressure on the United States: Without the same cover the Israelis had, the United States is forced to either keep it's mouth shut or risk, whenever opening it, being repudiated prima facie as open liars, even by our allies.

Recall, the strongest support we could get from NATO member states, other than Canada, was merely abstention.

PB

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 06:42 PM

9. So all that is left is a one state solution?

Apartheid in a single state? More suffering? More death? More generations of hate?

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Response to cpwm17 (Reply #11)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 08:09 PM

19. That poll was bogus,

Gideon Levy was forced to apologize.




'Shonky poll serves to demonise Israelis as pro-apartheid'

http://www.democraticunderground.com/113420157





'About the apartheid poll and responsible journalism'

http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/setting-the-record-straight-about-the-apartheid-poll-and-ethical-journalism/

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Response to King_David (Reply #19)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 08:32 PM

28. A solid majority of Israelis are pro-apartheid.

They oppose anything resembling a Palestinian state.

Thy also oppose giving Palestinians who live under Israeli rule and occupation the right to vote in Israeli elections.

They favor apartheid, but want to be able to call the Palestinians independent in the same way the US declared Indian tribes independent so as to be able to sleep at night.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #28)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 09:42 PM

41. Nah,

I think you don`t know too much about Israelis if you believe that shit.

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Response to King_David (Reply #41)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 11:37 PM

60. I can read election results.

Likud, whose goal is and has always been Greater Israel, will coast to victory next year. Israel is not even a center right country--it's a hard right country. It's a nation that thinks like Dick Cheney.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #60)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 11:22 AM

95. FYI - Livni got more votes than Netanyahu

So your argument is complete bullshit.


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Response to Mosby (Reply #95)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 11:35 AM

97. A majority of votes were for Netanyahu and those to his right.

Likud: 27 seats
Yisrael Beiteinu: 15 seats
Shas: 11 seats
UTJ: 5 seats
National Union: 4 seats
Jewish Home: 3 seats

Total: 65 seats out of 120.

And the 2013 elections are only going to push the country further to the right. As will each successive election as the ultra-orthodox--via immigration and an astronomical birth rate--constiute an increasing share of the electorate.

The Israel of Ben Gurion is dead. Liberal Zionism is dead. The state of Israel is now the Israel of Bibi and Lieberman and Ovadia Yosef.

P.S. Kadima is the party of Ariel Sharon and the second invasion of Lebanon. That Kadima constitutes the 'left' in Israel is almost as sad as the fact that Likud represents the center.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #97)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:39 PM

99. Livni received more votes than Netanyahu, that's a fact.

(Livni) Kadima 758,032 22.47%
(Netanyahu) Likud 729,054 21.61%

Ps - the Democratic party murders whole families with missles and assassinates leaders in other countries, so I guess the american left is dead, or should be right? No one is shooting rockets into the US like in Israel, so they can't suggest that they are defending us from attack. Our current admin is guilty of war crimes, collective punishment and genocide, the Democratic party has clearly lost its way and should be destroyed. /sarc.


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Response to Mosby (Reply #99)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:41 PM

100. More than half of Israeli voters voted for a right wing party.

That makes Israel a rightwing country.

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Response to King_David (Reply #41)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 01:02 PM

103. Uh huh

Over half of the Jewish population in Israel believes the marriage of a Jewish woman to an Arab man is equal to national treason, according to a recent survey by the Geocartography Institute.

The survey, which was conducted for the Center Against Racism, also found that over 75 percent of participants did not approve of apartment buildings being shared between Arabs and Jews. Sixty percent of participants said they would not allow an Arab to visit their home.

Five hundred Jewish men and women participated in the poll, which was published Tuesday.

According to the survey, racism against Arabs in Israel has seen a sharp rise since a similar survey was conducted two years ago.

In 2006, 247 racist acts against Arabs were reported, as opposed to 225 one year prior.

About 40 percent of participants agreed that “Arabs should have their right to vote for Knesset revoked”. The number was 55 percent lower in the previous survey. Also, over half of the participants agreed that Israel should encourage its Arab citizens to immigrate from the country.

Over half of the participants said they would not want to work under the direct management of an Arab, and 55 percent said “Arabs and Jews should be separated at entertainment sites”.



http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3381978,00.html

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Response to King_David (Reply #19)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 09:25 PM

39. Israelis show their approval of Israel's current Apartheid government

in the occupied territories every time they go to the polls.

Israel will remain an Apartheid state until they allow the occupied Palestinians the right to vote in Israel's elections. The Palestinians in the occupied territories are citizens of Israel. The "two-state solution" is dead. Israel killed it.

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Response to cpwm17 (Reply #39)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 09:44 PM

42. Changing the goalposts

You posted a bogus poll , which when revealed ,you resort to untrue statements .

Not cool.

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Response to King_David (Reply #42)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 10:09 PM

50. Here's Haaretz poll with a differentd headline

It changes little:

http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/survey-most-israeli-jews-wouldn-t-give-palestinians-vote-if-west-bank-was-annexed.premium-1.471644

Here's their correction – sort of:

CLARIFICATION: The original headline for this piece, 'Most Israelis support an apartheid regime in Israel,' did not accurately reflect the findings of the Dialog poll. The question to which most respondents answered in the negative did not relate to the current situation, but to a hypothetical situation in the future: 'If Israel annexes territories in Judea and Samaria, should 2.5 million Palestinians be given the right to vote for the Knesset?'


Since Judea and Samaria (the West Bank) are already part of Israel and already have been annexed, Israelis support an Apartheid state as Israel's currently configured.

One could criticize the polling methods and claim that the survey wasn't scientific. The results as presented aren't good.

As I just wrote: Israelis show their approval of Israel's Apartheid government every time they go to the polls.

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Response to cpwm17 (Reply #50)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 10:26 PM

55. Gideon Levy was forced to apologize

For that bogus poll .

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Response to King_David (Reply #55)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:57 AM

64. see comment #63 for Gideon Levy's 'retraction' which was not a retraction of the entire poll as you

imply and oh thanks again for reminder

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #64)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 07:22 AM

72. So what was Levy's apology all about then ?

Mmh ?

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Response to King_David (Reply #72)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 05:47 PM

136. as stated in the snip he corrected one error and it was not about apartheid

it was something else did you not read it?

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Response to King_David (Reply #42)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 02:39 AM

67. Actually, Levy didn't apologise for the poll being bogus...

I know that's been pointed out to you before down in the I/P group, so it's really not cool to come up to LBN and try again as though you didn't already know what yr saying is resorting to untrue statements.

Az has posted what Gideon Levy said in this thread, and reading it, I can understand why you didn't, seeing as how it doesn't match up with what you claimed.

Also, that first link of yrs to an OP you posted in the I/P group? The Australian is a RW newspaper owned by Rupert Murdoch and editorially controlled by him. Not only that, but the author of the OP you posted is the founder of a website called 'The Jewish Thinker'. It has some pretty nasty stuff on it about Arabs, and on its front page currently is this article:

Tighten your safety belts, Israel! We’re in for another four years of Obama

Americans apparently overlooked four years of economic waste, and a failed foreign policy of sucking up to the Muslim world, by re-electing their president. What now?

Israeli people in the know predict that Obama will shortly reveal an agreement with Iran that will position Tehran stopping their uranium enrichment program in return for easing of sanctions. Incredibly, Obama will launch it as a success story while Israel will present it as a fair story. Obama will want to put Iran out of reach for the world so as to enable him to continue his Socialist experiment for America and to progress his global vision of leveling the playing field for a better world, which implies weakening America further, economically and militarily, to come more into line with less fortunate nations. As almost immediate proof of this, expect to see swinging defense cuts, including sizeable unemployment, in the early part of 2013. In fact, we will be hearing of unemployment soaring over the 8% mark again as early as February 2013 in America. Their national debt will grow accordingly.

All this will embolden a growing Islamic world that will be stupefied to see America give their leader another mandate to continue his apology policy towards them. A new Obama Administration, pleading with the Muslim world “to be nice, please, because we don’t hate you,” is not going to cut it in this violent and crazy neck of the woods. They consider him weak and will view America in decline.

http://www.jewishthinker.org/article/58/tighten-your-safety-belts-israel-we’re-in-for-another-four-years-of-obama

Charming. RW shit like the Australian and RW shills like the writer you posted a link to might pass muster in the I/P group, but not so much up in LBN...

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #67)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 07:20 AM

71. So what did Levy apologize for ?

Mmmhh ?

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Response to King_David (Reply #71)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 07:24 AM

73. It's already been explained to you several times. I hope you read it this time...

I know this was posted in an IP thread you participated in, and Az has also posted it in this thread. This is what Gideon Levy said:

'The Dialog poll commissioned by the Yisraela Goldblum Fund, whose results were published in Haaretz last week, unearthed extremely serious and disturbing findings. It sketched a troubling portrait of a nationalistic and racist Israeli society. This isn't the first survey to demonstrate such a trend and, unfortunately, it won't be the last. The Hebrew headline of the news article describing the survey results ("Most Israelis support an apartheid regime in Israel" ) was misleading. Most Israelis do support apartheid, but only if the occupied territories are annexed; and most Israelis oppose such annexation. Haaretz explained this in a clarification published in the Hebrew edition on Sunday.

The article itself, which I wrote, did not contain any mistakes. It provided a precise and detailed description of the survey results. In my analysis of the survey, which appeared as a separate article, there was a single sentence that did not accurately represent the poll results and contradicted what I had written in the news piece a short time beforehand. My sin was to write: "The majority doesn't want Arabs to vote for the Knesset, Arab neighbors at home or Arab students at school."

The truth, as I wrote in the news piece, is different: "Just" 33 percent of the respondents said they don't want Arabs to vote in parliamentary elections, "just" 42 percent wouldn't want an Arab neighbor, and about the same proportion said it would bother them if there were an Arab student in their child's class. Not a majority - just a (large ) portion of Israelis espouse these frightening views. Cold comfort.'

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/errors-and-omissions-excepted.premium-1.472852

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Response to King_David (Reply #71)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 08:38 PM

142. For something that appeared in a SEPARATE article, quoted below:

In my analysis of the survey, which appeared as a separate article, there was a single sentence that did not accurately represent the poll results and contradicted what I had written in the news piece a short time beforehand. My sin was to write: "The majority doesn't want Arabs to vote for the Knesset, Arab neighbors at home or Arab students at school."


What he was clarifying there was that the poll question referred to the way poll respondents thought Palestinian Arabs should be treated in the West Bank if Israel were to annex it(most respondents in same poll OPPOSED annexing the West Bank)-NOT how respondents felt Arabs living in Israel proper should be treated.

He wasn't saying the entire poll was bogus.

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Response to King_David (Reply #19)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:54 AM

63. okay a right wing Israeli news paper and a gross misreprentation of Gideon Levy's so called retracti

on the thread you linked to done because the poster thought more than the first paragraph was hidden behind a pay wall but here is the rest of Gideon Levey's 'retraction'

The Dialog poll commissioned by the Yisraela Goldblum Fund, whose results were published in Haaretz last week, unearthed extremely serious and disturbing findings. It sketched a troubling portrait of a nationalistic and racist Israeli society. This isn't the first survey to demonstrate such a trend and, unfortunately, it won't be the last. The Hebrew headline of the news article describing the survey results ("Most Israelis support an apartheid regime in Israel" ) was misleading. Most Israelis do support apartheid, but only if the occupied territories are annexed; and most Israelis oppose such annexation. Haaretz explained this in a clarification published in the Hebrew edition on Sunday.

The article itself, which I wrote, did not contain any mistakes. It provided a precise and detailed description of the survey results. In my analysis of the survey, which appeared as a separate article, there was a single sentence that did not accurately represent the poll results and contradicted what I had written in the news piece a short time beforehand. My sin was to write: "The majority doesn't want Arabs to vote for the Knesset, Arab neighbors at home or Arab students at school."

The truth, as I wrote in the news piece, is different: "Just" 33 percent of the respondents said they don't want Arabs to vote in parliamentary elections, "just" 42 percent wouldn't want an Arab neighbor, and about the same proportion said it would bother them if there were an Arab student in their child's class. Not a majority - just a (large ) portion of Israelis espouse these frightening views. Cold comfort.

Imagine a similar survey in France: A third of the French don't want Jews to be eligible to vote and nearly half don't want a Jewish neighbor or a Jewish student in their child's class. The right-wing propagandists who are currently causing a ruckus about my mistake would be among the first to shout "anti-Semitism." But for us, the Jews, it's allowed.


http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/errors-and-omissions-excepted.premium-1.472852

thanks for reminding me I had all but forgotten about that

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #63)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 06:09 PM

137. Thanks for the link, AZ.

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Response to Paulie (Reply #9)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 08:03 PM

16. genocide, really

Slow genocide of their cousins.

Vile. It sickens me that my tax dollars support this.

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Response to magical thyme (Reply #16)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 08:15 PM

20. genocide ?

The Israelis are really bad at 'genocide' if that is the case.

Does this look like genocide?

Between 1950 and 1967, Palestinian population in the West Bank and Gaza remained about 1 million. Since 1967, during the supposed Israeli "genocide," population quadrupled to an estimated 4.1 million in 2010. Between 1990 and 2010, at the height of the Israeli "genocide," population doubled. Under Israeli rule, Palestinian infant mortality rates fell from about 60/1000 to 18/1000, thanks to improved prenatal and infant care.

Palestinian population quadrupled under the Israeli rule!!

http://zionism-israel.com/Israel_Genocide_Flyer.htm

(Sick ) Hyperbole much?

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Response to King_David (Reply #20)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 08:25 PM

24. I agree. Using a word like "genocide" is ridiculous.

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Response to King_David (Reply #20)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 09:52 PM

45. How about land? That keep pace with population growth?

If not land then how about housing?

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Response to Paulie (Reply #45)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 10:27 PM

56. How anout Genocide ? nt

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Response to King_David (Reply #56)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 10:37 PM

57. Not happening today

But growing the powder keg will allow for blaming the weaker party when it goes off. Then the usual excuses will happen like they MADE us drive bulldozers over them. They are yellow how could the not see them?

None of this ends well. For anyone. Sigh.

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 07:28 PM

13. People are finally beginning to see Zionism for what it is

 

Zionism is a belief system that is much like fascism the world over. How long will the Zionist hold sway over our government? Lets hope that progressives in Israel vote these terrorists out.

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Response to Stewland (Reply #13)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 07:51 PM

14. Your post shows you don't know what Zionism or fascism are.

Take your anti-Semitic crap elsewhere.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #14)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 08:05 PM

17. The Palestinian people are Semites too, you know.

Fascism, no. Really more like slow, methodical genocide.

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Response to magical thyme (Reply #17)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 08:30 PM

26. The term antisemitism applies only to Jews,and not other semitic peoples. Let me help you out here ,

Definition of ANTI-SEMITISM


: hostility toward or discrimination against Jews as a religious, ethnic, or racial group

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anti-semitism




Here is an excellent post by one of our DU members Behind the Aegis (Host of the Jewish group ):

'The next time someone is droning on foolishly about "Arabs are Semites, too" as a way to imply anti-Semitism is anything other than discrimination/hatred against Jews, simply ask them if they are pedophiles, after all, "pedo" means "child" and "-phile" means "lover of." Therefore, using their 'logic' if they love children, they are pedophiles. Don't want to be that aggressive? Then try; "would you smoke or light a match near a sign that said something is "inflammable?" Again, using their "love for the real meaning of the word," the prefix "in-" means "not" and "flammable" means "combustible." Therefore, "inflammable" means "not combustible."

The constant droning on about the origin of the word is nothing more than people being dishonest or disingenuous, and often, usually deflecting from "Jew hatred" (where the term originated).'

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=23310

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Response to King_David (Reply #26)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 01:11 PM

108. Why the semantic acrobatics?

Hatred is hatred. And there is an unbelievable amount of hatred toward these Semites, the Arabs.

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Response to The Stranger (Reply #108)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 02:30 PM

121. There are semantic acrobatics because the zionist apologists have nothing else.

 

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Response to byeya (Reply #121)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 04:42 PM

126. Zionist apologist?

No way.

I am a Proud Zionist .

Zionists have absolutely NOTHING to apologize for.

Proud national movement of the Jews and vast vast majority of us are Zionists.

'Zionism:


The national movement for the return of the Jewish people to their homeland and the resumption of Jewish sovereignty in the Land of Israel. Has come to include the development of the State of Israel and the protection of the Jewish nation in Israel.

Zionism avocated, from inception, tangible as well as spiritual aims. Jews of all persuasions - left and right, religious and secular - joined to form the Zionist movement and worked together toward these goals. Disagreements led to rifts, but ultimately, the common goal of a Jewish state in its ancient homeland was attained.

The term “Zionism” was coined in 1890 by Nathan Birnbaum. '

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Zionism/zionism.html

And the Democratic Party of the USA , which DU supports are proudly supportive of Israel and Zionism.



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Response to King_David (Reply #126)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 07:38 PM

139. "The national movement for the return of the Jewish people to THEIR homeland

and the resumption of Jewish sovereignty in the Land of Israel."

You see, that's the problem. That's ancient bible mythology. It's not "their" homeland. It was, and is, the Palestinians' homeland. Ones religion doesn't give anybody the right to take over somebody else's homeland. That's fundie, crazy talk.

Dealing with reality as it is now, the only solution is to give all people currently living in historic Palestine equal rights. Nothing else is thinkable.

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Response to cpwm17 (Reply #139)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 10:08 PM

144. Sorry THAT is not up for debate, nt

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Response to King_David (Reply #144)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 10:56 PM

145. Maybe for you, because you're clearly a fundie

You're making a religious claim to somebody else's land. On a liberal site, it's certainly not debatable that you are wrong.

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Response to cpwm17 (Reply #145)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 12:33 AM

146. The Democratic Party and its rank and file and Reps

Would clearly not accept antiZionists into their fold .

I am an avid Democrat member and supporter.

This is DU

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Response to King_David (Reply #146)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 03:50 AM

147. You have no argument

That's politics. It doesn't support your position.

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Response to cpwm17 (Reply #147)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 07:21 AM

149. You have made your views on Jews and Zionists abundantly clear

There is no "argument " with the irrational .

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Response to King_David (Reply #149)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 08:21 AM

150. You've got nothing

This is all about an ancient myth for you.

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Response to cpwm17 (Reply #150)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 10:59 AM

152. Your absolutly clueless about that,

I am an atheist Jew.

Your posts here are amply clear to all that can read .

And they not pretty !

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Response to King_David (Reply #152)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 05:10 PM

155. Your support for the Palestinian Nakba isn't pretty

The bible is mythology. According to bible mythology, Jews stole the land from someone else. Jews were one of many groups that have lived in what is now Palestine. Jews have no special claim to the land. The Palestinians have lived there for many hundreds of years.

I'm an atheist, and I can't relate to your thinking. You think that some fabricated history from thousands of years ago gives Jews the right to treat the Palestinians so badly – that's just incredible.

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Response to cpwm17 (Reply #155)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 05:21 PM

156. LOL did you read what I said about being an Atheist ?

By your reply I feel lke I wasted so much time thinking anyone would take your post seriously .

LOL ... Bye Bye

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Response to King_David (Reply #156)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 07:05 PM

159. From your post above:

"The national movement for the return of the Jewish people to their homeland and the resumption of Jewish sovereignty in the Land of Israel."

I understood what you wrote.

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Response to cpwm17 (Reply #159)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 08:32 PM

160. Nah its clear you do not get any of it ,

You need more education on Jews and Zionists because it's clear you do not understand us at all.

PM me I will be happy to suggest some reading material.

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Response to cpwm17 (Reply #139)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 11:21 AM

163. Thank you for the truth, cpwm17

I am so tired of the "Bible says it's so" crowd. That land was Palestine before 1948. What has happened to the Palestinians is not unlike the Native American holocaust in North America; and what the Israelis and their government are doing to the Palestinians is not unlike the Jewish holocaust on Europe!

Israel is a bully nation.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #14)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 08:06 PM

18. If he was truly anti semitic he probably wouldn't be for the progressive's either.

Personally I think the world is tired of the old anti-semitic ruse when it comes to pointing out fault with people who are zionists. At DU we criticize Christians quite a lot too. Does that makes us all racists against the christian faith?

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Response to former9thward (Reply #14)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 08:20 PM

22. There Was Nothing Anti-Simitic

 

In that post. Apparently some people have thin skin when certain words are used. All words should be judged in the context of how they were used rather than just as code words that encite pent-up passions to explode. I am not trying to dissuade you from your love for the people of Israel, just to ask you to consider the intent of a statement based upon context rather than just words. We are all on the same side here (or at least of the same political views), and no poster should be attacked without undeniable justification. Peace to everyone.

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Response to 1ProudAtheist (Reply #22)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 08:31 PM

27. Someone who says Zionism equals fascism is not on my side.

So no we are not "all on the same side here".

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Response to former9thward (Reply #27)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 08:35 PM

31. At one point Zionism was compatible with democracy.

But, liberal Zionism is dead. The choice is now between a binational state with the end of Zionism, or an apartheid Greater Israel with Arabs denied the right to self-determination.

There is no third option.

Zionism and democracy are inexorably opposed now.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #27)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 08:41 PM

35. Fascism, Zionism, Democracy

 

flip a coin, call them all the others.........not any real significant differnces. Our country today is far more Fascist than democratic, yet you don't see me getting my undies all bunched up just because it is what it is. I stand by my position that the post that you attacked was in no way anti-simitic.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #14)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 08:35 PM

30. What does criticism of

the Likud neoconservative anti-Palestinian land grabbing policy have to do with Jewish anti-Semitism? The last anyone heard, Israel is a democracy and not a theocracy.

It is very easy to throw the anti-Semitic accusation around when you have no other way to defend the Israeli government's far right militarism isn't it? And, yes Israel has a right to defend itself, but it does not have a right to use political or ethnic conflict as an excuse to steal land from the Palestinians.

There could have been two states a long time ago if the ruling Likud neoconservatives (Bibi and pals) had curtailed the settlements in Palestine. But then that would have reduced the "need" for the very lucrative USA military aid program wouldn't it?

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Response to billh58 (Reply #30)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 11:10 PM

59. The poster did not say anything of that now did they?

They just said Zionism (a Jewish state) equals fascism. Idiocy.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #14)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 09:49 PM

44. Cheap shot accusations of anti-semitism. How boring. And how predictable.

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #44)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 11:08 PM

58. Just as predictable as your anti-Israel rants, right?

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Response to former9thward (Reply #58)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 11:26 AM

96. Unlike you rabid Zionists, I don't falsely accuse others of being racists.

That's a really shitty, scurrilous tactic.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #14)

Sun Dec 9, 2012, 11:21 PM

169. I beg to differ

 

Zionism ,a set of ideas formulated in late 18th century,in which the European Jewery were the chosen people above the native Shephardic and Palestinian. It employs militarism as its mechanism in order to achieve its goal. Fascism is also a set of belief that like Zionism sets groups apart and against one another. In fact all Fascist ideas use hatred of the other in order to rouse the sentiments of its adherents. The means justify the ends is the common rule. Oppression of despised minorities allows genocide and theft of life and liberty to done in the name of the cause. Nazi andZionist ideas are strikingly similar. The need to expand territory and cleanse the area of undesirables are strikingly similar. Nazis visited terror,genocide and prejudice upon Jews just like Zionists vist these same horrors upon Palestinians.

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Response to Stewland (Reply #13)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 08:18 PM

21. No you got it wrong, Here let me help you out,

Zionism:


The national movement for the return of the Jewish people to their homeland and the resumption of Jewish sovereignty in the Land of Israel. Has come to include the development of the State of Israel and the protection of the Jewish nation in Israel.

Zionism avocated, from inception, tangible as well as spiritual aims. Jews of all persuasions - left and right, religious and secular - joined to form the Zionist movement and worked together toward these goals. Disagreements led to rifts, but ultimately, the common goal of a Jewish state in its ancient homeland was attained.

The term “Zionism” was coined in 1890 by Nathan Birnbaum.


http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Zionism/zionism.html

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Response to King_David (Reply #21)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 08:34 PM

29. Not To Seem Argumnetative

 

But............how does this apply to areas outside of the borders of the Israeli state? Speaking as one who advocates peace at all levels, I find it most difficult to support a government, any government, that makes choices to kill others and take away their homes and their land, in order to expand their borders. And don't try telling me about security, as a nation with the military might of Israel can never be threatened by the people of the Palestinian communities who'se main arsenal consists of bottles and rocks. I submit to you that extremism is just that extremism, no matter the nation or the people.

As for the state of Israel, I respect their right to exist, and their right to defend themselves...........against real enemies. I do believe that most of the dispute in that area of the world comes from the theft of homes, land, territory, and wealth, from the sovereign state of Palestine after the end of WWII. Right, wrong, or somewhere in between, the Palestinians have a legitimate gripe about the theft of their land, and the most extreme of them, will fight to the death in an effort to recover it. Seeing only 1 side of that argument will definitely lead a person to form strong opinions, and there have been ongoing attempts to resolve this issue for more than 50 years. Let us all hope that someday soon both sides will sit down in ernest, accept each other as neighbors, and learn that living together in peace is far better than living apart in war.

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Response to King_David (Reply #21)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 08:40 PM

33. Look, I don't know why I let myself get into this, BUT

1. Giving land in Palestine to European - global - Jews makes as much sense as giving my house and land back to the Indians. In fact it probably makes MORE sense to give MY stuff back to the Indians, as they were there "only" about 150 years ago.

2. Why wouldn't the Palestinians resent the loss of control-ownership of their homes and land?

3. The aggressive posture of the Israeli government has cost it the support of folks like me, who once were almost TOTALLY sympathetic to the "cause" of Israel. BECAUSE of this aggressive posture I started to educate myself about the history of the Palestinians, and that education taught me that the Palestinians HAVE been unjustly forced off of their land.

4. I don't believe any god gave anything to anyone.
Ms. Bigmack

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Response to Bigmack (Reply #33)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 09:46 PM

43. `Europeans`

Ever been to Israel ?

Most Israeli Jews are secular atheists.

God ???

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Response to King_David (Reply #43)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 10:13 PM

51. Sounds like Israel is becoming some kind of a tyranny

Because many who hold power in the Israeli government are extremely religious. Doesn't look representative of a secular state to me.

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Response to fascisthunter (Reply #51)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 11:46 PM

61. Name some names

of these religious Jews who hold power in the Israeli government ...

This should be good.

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Response to King_David (Reply #61)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 03:25 AM

68. Shas isn't a religious party? They're in the current government...

Shall you be wanting the names of the four Cabinet Ministers from Shas? Or will you be trying to argue that Shas isn't really a religious party?

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #68)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 07:19 AM

70. That is "Many". ? nt

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Response to King_David (Reply #70)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 07:26 AM

74. You asked for some. What does it matter?

The fact is that there is a strong religious presence in the Israeli govt, and Shas, which is a religious party holds four Cabinet positions. I'm not sure if yr aware of the power that comes with having a Cabinet position, but we're not talking junior guppie folk here...

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #74)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 07:34 AM

75. Let me help you out following this thread can be difficult ,

The claim was "many who hold power in the Israeli government"

4 out of 32 is many ?

(Now I know you will move to some other irrelevant detail and go on and on , but my point is proved and I won't keep going on and on )

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Response to King_David (Reply #75)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 07:40 AM

76. There's no need to get nasty and patronising...

What you are ignoring is that the religious parties do hold a lot of influence in Israeli politics. You want to split hairs over the definition of many or pretend that Cabinet positions are just the same as any other member of the govt, you go right ahead.

Not sure if you'll find the OP itself irrelevant, but I'd be interested to know whether you agree with what the Israeli govt is doing now when it comes to settlement expansion.

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #68)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 01:24 PM

111. Shas is a religious party

but they have had coalition governments will both the left and the right wings (labor and likud). They are basically concerned with making sure that Yeshiva's continue to get government funding, and to help the social-economic needs of the Sephardic community in Israel. Historically they have been quite moderate on WB/Gaza issues.

They are religious based, but also gain support of non-religious members of the Sephardi.

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Response to King_David (Reply #43)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 10:43 AM

83. "Most Israeli Jews are secular atheists?"

Um, yeah, that's why the civil institiutions are controlled by the Orthodox.

Orthodox and their cohorts outnumber atheists handily, and they control the Israeli government.

But, they are all united in their hate of Arabs and especially Palestinians.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #83)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 04:49 PM

128. 'But, they are all united in their hate of Arabs and especially Palestinians'

'But, they are all united in their hate of Arabs and especially Palestinians'



And the majority of Jews in the USA are united with The Jews in Israel,



So I call Bullshit on that.

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Response to Bigmack (Reply #33)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 10:04 PM

49. well said... the argument is twisted

I heard my great great grandfather owned hundreds of thousands of acres in Russia. Maybe I should reclaim it all... think the us tax payers would be cool with supporrting my efforts?

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Response to Bigmack (Reply #33)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 01:30 PM

112. Same here. It's only a matter of time before Israel alienates the majority of Americans.

Then all of the rhetoric that supporters of Israel can muster won't stop the U.S. from turning off the spigot of cash, weapons and military backing.


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Response to Stewland (Reply #13)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 10:14 PM

52. Just a hint. You can get banned for that, so you might want to edit it. Here's the TOS:

No bigoted hate speech.

...This includes any post which states opposition to full equal rights for gays and lesbians; it also includes any post asserting disloyalty by Jewish Americans, claiming nefarious influence by Jews/Zionists/Israel, advocating the destruction of the state of Israel, or arguing that Holocaust deniers are just misunderstood.

Don't go overboard with the crazy talk.


...In addition, please be aware that many conspiracy theories have roots in racism and anti-semitism, and Democratic Underground has zero tolerance for bigoted hate speech. In short, you take your chances.

I hope you will consider that you agreed to this when you signed up to become a member here. I won't alert on you, but this is just a friendly hint.

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Response to freshwest (Reply #52)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 04:55 PM

133. Why should he pretend to change his views?

If that is how he feels , DU will decide.

He does not seem to be alone with such views on this thread.

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Response to Stewland (Reply #13)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 10:52 AM

90. That word...

 

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #90)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 07:53 PM

140. I don't think the word 'Zionism' is the problem. It's the '...Zionist hold sway over our government'

Which I think the TOS speaks against.

That one phrase falls into 'The Protocols of The Elders of Zion,' the 'House of Rothschild aka the Banksters', and other conspiracy theories territory. Even some of those spinmeisters claim it's not about Judaism.

I won't alert on it, since enough people here may believe Zionists do control the government of the USA. They don't see that point, that's my interpretation. Fine by me. I'm not the thread police.

IMHO, it's not the Jews or any foreign group. It's the Christian Nationalists, the wannabe rulers ot the world we're dealing with. Or just greedy criminals who come in all races, religions, etc.

I don't personally see Israel nor Palestine as special. The people have leaders who determine their relationship with each other. The only thing I never find is a good reason for this conflict to go on so long; why the very wealthy allies on both sides haven't worked to resolve this before now.

I feel they are used as proxy like Vietnam was alleged to be between the super powers of the day. If both were unable to get money from abroad, both sides, they would have found a way to coexist together a long time ago as I see no logical or rational reason for this.

Why do you think this is taking so long to resolve?

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 08:23 PM

23. Two-state solution has been dead since 2000.

The only question is whether Israel chooses to be a binational state, or an apartheid state. Zionism and democracy are no longer compatible.

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 08:35 PM

32. The E1 plan and its implications for human rights in the West Bank

Published:
2 Dec 2012

This past weekend, the media reported that Israel has decided to advance the planning of thousands of apartments in the settlement of Ma’ale Adumim, as part of the E-1 plan, in the area connecting the settlement to Jerusalem. According to media accounts, this decision was reached following the UN General Assembly’s recognition of Palestine as a state with UN observer status.

The implementation of construction plans in E1 will create an urban block between Ma’ale Adumim and Jerusalem, exacerbate the isolation of East Jerusalem from the rest of the West Bank and will divide the West Bank into two separate areas, north and south.

The establishment of settlements in occupied territory runs counter to international humanitarian law, which prohibits the transfer of people from the occupying state into the occupied area. It also prohibits any permanent changes in the occupied territory, with the exception of changes mandated by military needs or in order to benefit the local population. In addition, the establishment of Israeli settlements leads to numerous violations of Palestinians' human rights. The plan to expel Bedouin communities who reside in these areas is a further breach of international humanitarian law, which prohibits the forcible transfer of "protected persons," such as these communities, unless done for their own safety or for an urgent military need. Even then, it is permissible only on a temporary basis.


What is E1?

The E1 master plan (Plan No. 420/4) was approved in 1999. It covers approximately 12,000 dunams of land – most of which Israel declared as state land – of the approximately 48,000 dunams under the jurisdiction of Ma’ale Adumim. The plan includes mainly areas north of the Jerusalem-Jericho road (Route 1) but also some land south of it, near the junction of Route 1 and Route 417 and west of Route 417.

Control of the land designated as E1 was primarily accomplished by declaring the land state land, a step whose illegality was demonstrated in a comprehensive report by B’Tselem. The area of E1 includes enclaves of privately owned Palestinian land, totaling some 775 dunams. These lands were excluded from the area declared as state lands for legal reasons, and are not officially covered by the plan. Clearly, however, the reality on the ground created by the plan will severely limit the access for Palestinian landowners to their property.

In addition to plans for residential housing, the plan indicates areas for other uses such as tourism, commerce, regional services, a regional cemetery and roads. Two plans have already been approved in detail, enabling them to have building permits issued.

One of these plans designates approximately 1,354 dunams for the construction of a metropolitan employment and business center for the use of both Ma’ale Adumim and the municipality of Jerusalem. The plan, submitted by the Ministry of Industry and Trade and prepared by the firm of Reches-Eshkol, was approved in 2002 but has yet to be implemented.

The second plan designates approximately 179 dunams for the Judea and Samaria district police headquarters, and was approved in 2005. This plan has already been implemented, and the police headquarters operates there. As part of the development of the area for the implementation of the plan, additional infrastructure was put in place, including the paving of roads, the construction of supporting walls, traffic roundabouts and street lighting, costing a total of about NIS 200 million. There is no possible justification for development work on this scale if its only purpose is to allow access to the police headquarters. The reason underlying this extensive infrastructure appears to be the future development of the planned construction of a residential area near the police station.

Whom does the plan harm?

Implementation of the E1 plan will have far-reaching consequences and will interrupt the contiguity of the southern and northern West Bank. Although all settlements are designated as closed military zones to which Palestinians cannot enter without special permits, this order is generally enforced only for the built-up areas. Building new residential neighborhoods north of Route 1 and developing infrastructure west of Route 417, which connects with Route 1, will transform these routes into local roads which run through the continuous built-up area of Ma’ale Adumim, thereby nullifying the regional function they now fulfill for Palestinians and either partially or completely denying access to Palestinians. Moreover, the northeast section of Plan 420/4 also includes part of Route 437, which is currently the sole access road for Palestinians for travel from the northern part of the West Bank (the Ramallah area) to the southern West Bank. Full implementation of Plan 420/4 will place these roads within the continuous built-up area of the settlement, and Palestinians will almost certainly lose access as a result.

remainder: http://www.btselem.org/settlements/20121202_e1_human_rights_ramifications

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 08:40 PM

34. The religious crazies in Israel want more Lebensraum.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #34)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 09:34 PM

40. Fascinating that you choose a Nazi-era German term

I wonder why you made that choice...

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Response to oberliner (Reply #40)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 09:52 PM

46. Seems painfully apt.

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #46)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 09:57 PM

48. the notion that victims of abuse become abusers themselves...

...seems to apply to societies as much as it applies to individuals.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #48)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 10:33 AM

79. Most Israelis are not victims of any abuse

Where are you going with all of this?

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #46)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 11:48 PM

62. So spell it out for those of us who do not understand this 'analogy'

Who are you comparing them to?

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #46)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 10:34 AM

80. Comparing Israelis to Nazis?

That seems painfully apt to you?

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Response to oberliner (Reply #40)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 09:56 PM

47. If the shoe fits...

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #47)


Response to Bad_Ronald (Reply #78)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 10:35 AM

82. You agree that Israel is similar to Nazi Germany?

You even seem to go further, implying it's a perfect comparison. Yes?

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Response to oberliner (Reply #82)


Response to oberliner (Reply #82)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 10:46 AM

86. You would prefer apartheid South Africa with a theocratic twist.

Because that is what modern Israel is. "A light unto nations" has become Jim Crow on the Mediterranean.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #86)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 11:10 AM

91. There is nothing theocratic about Israel

As to South Africa, allow me to quote an esteemed former president who was worked extensively for peace in the region (and is often very critical of Israeli actions):

"Israel is a wonderful democracy with equal treatment of all citizens whether Arab or Jew."

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Response to oberliner (Reply #91)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 11:18 AM

93. Can a Jew marry a Muslim in Israel?

Can a woman go to a civil court to get a divorce from an abusive husband?

Also, a state founded and operated by, of, and for a single religious group is pretty much a theocracy.

And no one believes that Arabs have legal equality to Jews in Israel. As a factual matter it's false.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #93)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 04:54 PM

131. Not legally

They can be common-law husband and wife though.

Everything marriage related is regulated by religious authorities (Jewish, Muslim, or otherwise).

Arabs do have legal equality to Jews in Israel.

A state founded by a single religious group is not "pretty much a theocracy". Theocracy (per Wikipedia) is a form of government in which a deity is officially recognized as the civil Ruler and official policy is governed by officials regarded as divinely guided, or is pursuant to the doctrine of a particular religion or religious group.

Kind of like, say, Iran or Saudi Arabia.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #91)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 01:42 PM

114. Except that Palestinians can't vote so it's kind of a sucky "democracy" for them...nt

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Response to Walk away (Reply #114)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 04:55 PM

132. Palestinian citizens of Israel can vote in Israel

Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza can vote for the leadership of the West Bank and Gaza.

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Response to Bad_Ronald (Reply #115)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 01:58 PM

116. You think that's a lie

You know more about the situation than our former president?

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Response to Bad_Ronald (Reply #118)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 03:28 PM

124. So that one was true but the other one is a lie?

I don't pretend to know more about the situation than President Carter. I respect his expertise.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #124)


Response to Bad_Ronald (Reply #125)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 04:49 PM

127. They are both recent quotes

I think his points about the West Bank are fair.

My thoughts on the OP are that I agree with Ban.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #86)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 04:52 PM

130. Your views on Israel are clear,

And Diametrically opposite of those of The Democratic Party rank and file,Members of Congress and President.

I disagree and that is why I chose DU as my home.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #47)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 10:34 AM

81. Comparing Israelis to Nazis?

Is that the shoe you are talking about?

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Response to oberliner (Reply #81)


Response to Bad_Ronald (Reply #88)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 11:12 AM

92. The jackboot of oppression?

Again, fascinating word choice.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #92)


Response to Bad_Ronald (Reply #122)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 04:50 PM

129. Not in any way that is comparable to what went on in Nazi Germany

Why invite that comparison with such nomenclature?

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 08:43 PM

36. We took the land away from our native Americans ...we are hypocrites!

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #36)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 01:44 AM

66. I've never seen anyone on here defending that action.

I guess we had to do it though, since God obviously meant for the land to be ours, and besides, they were engaging in terrorist acts against our settlers.

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 09:24 PM

38. Read somewhere that Israel is now witholding 100 Million of the Palestinians Government money...

...this is only going to make Israel look worse. Abbas played his hand well in the PR battle. This will make the suffering of Palestinians worse...which will again make Israel look bad. And any violence by the Palestinians...which will be even more "justified" due to the increased suffering from Israel will have to be handled differently as Abbas could now go to the ICC.

Sooner or later, the Likud branch will now have to deal with the Palestinian Authority instead of kicking the issue down the road while building settlements. If they do build in the "forbidden zone" and destroy the two state solution...they will eventually be forced to a one state solution. Effectively destroying the "Jewish State" which would be some interesting poetic justice, trying to take all the land for a Jewish State they end up taking all the land and having an Jewish-Islamic state.

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Sun Dec 2, 2012, 10:22 PM

54. Well this doesn't come as any surprise

because Israel has never been interested in peace in the region.

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 01:13 AM

65. Does no one see the obvious contradiction here?

If "Palestine" is actually a state, as asserted by the recent General Assembly vote, then how could this possibly "represent an almost fatal blow to remaining chances of securing a two-state solution"?

It just doesn't make any sense, unless the claim that Palestine is already a state is just a cynical, hypocritical lie!

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Response to Fozzledick (Reply #65)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 07:41 AM

77. A good observation about a poor word choice.

But I suspect observations such as yours will not be appreciated. People seem to be content to use inaccurate words when describing this conflict. There's much less thinking involved.

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Response to Chef Eric (Reply #77)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 01:05 PM

105. Fail. It was a vote, not a global assertion universally accepted.

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Response to harun (Reply #105)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 01:40 PM

113. Fail is not a noun.

And the point to which I was responding is that the "two-state solution" is not a good enough term for what it will take to bring about peace.

There already are two states, and obviously the solution has not been reached, because neither state is committed to peace.

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Response to Chef Eric (Reply #113)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 09:52 AM

151. Fuck off is an intransitive verb, just say'n.

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Response to Fozzledick (Reply #65)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 10:44 AM

85. It doesn't change the fact that the Israelis are an invading army occupying the land

of another people, illegally so.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #85)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 11:21 AM

94. To many all of Israel is occupied territory

Hamas certainly believes that.

Do you support the 67 borders? Or something else?

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Response to hack89 (Reply #94)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 11:38 AM

98. Israel rejected the 67 borders as a starting point for negotiations. They are a dead letter.

So, who cares what opinion I or any American--incluiding Obama, hold on the 67 borders?

There will never be a separate Palestinian state. Never. Israel simply will never allow it.

The US should wash its hands and let the people of that region settle things in the manner of their ancestors.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #94)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 01:16 PM

109. Well, Israel is currently occupying Syrian territory. Did we forget about that? Been for decades.

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Response to The Stranger (Reply #109)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 01:17 PM

110. Israel and Syria are also technically at war

there has never been a Israeli - Syrian peace treaty following the 67 war.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #110)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 05:34 PM

135. Because Israel isn't going to give them back the Golan.

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Response to The Stranger (Reply #135)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 06:39 PM

138. Kind of moot at the moment anyway

perhaps the new Syrian government will at least willing to sit down with the Israelis.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #138)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 12:32 PM

153. For what? They're not going to get their land back, even you make that clear.

Why would they sit down?

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Response to The Stranger (Reply #153)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 12:37 PM

154. No - I never said they would never get their land back.

Israel gave back the Sinai in exchange for a peace treaty. No reason to believe they would not give back the Golan for a peace treaty. Syria refused to consider a peace treaty - they wanted the Golan returned with no pre-conditions. When you start and lose two wars you don't get to make such demands.

Perhaps the new Syrian government is willing to recognize the state of Israel and sign a peace treaty - one can always hope.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #154)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 06:09 PM

157. The Sinai was 30 years ago. That's a couple decades more than enough time for Israel to withdraw

from the Golan Heights. They're not going to do it. No reason to make excuses about it.

And Israel is supporting the current Syrian regime. They don't want to face a new government like they are in Egypt.

Come on.

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Response to The Stranger (Reply #157)

Tue Dec 4, 2012, 06:15 PM

158. Did you miss the part about a peace treaty?

that's what it took for Israel to withdraw from the Sinai. That is what it would have taken for Syria to get back the Golan.

Do you think Israel would just hand back the Golan to a country still technically at war with it? Come on.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #158)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 10:57 AM

161. Yeah, I seem to remember a peace treaty. That was 30 years ago as well.

But you're seriously jeopardizing your credibility if you think Israel would ever cede the Golan -- thus the reason why Israel won't enter into a peace treaty. The Syrians want their land back.

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Response to The Stranger (Reply #161)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 11:04 AM

162. Wars end with peace treaties.

Syria has to sit down with Israel if they want the Golan back. The military option is gone now that their military has been destroyed in the civil war.

As long as Syria and Israel are technically in a state of war, international law is on Israel's side.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #162)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 02:09 PM

165. Link to the international law you cite.

The U.S. -- and many other nations -- have occupied states after war had both practically and "technically" ended.

But after thirty or so years, they were long gone.

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Response to The Stranger (Reply #165)

Thu Dec 6, 2012, 02:59 PM

166. WWII ended with treaties with all parties

what other examples do you have?

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Response to hack89 (Reply #166)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 11:26 AM

167. Link to the international law you cite.

You cited the law. Let's see it.

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Response to The Stranger (Reply #167)

Fri Dec 7, 2012, 12:13 PM

168. Wars don't end until the participants end them

or one side has been defeated.

There is no requirement in international law for a war to end in a peace treaty - but that is not what I said. I said that Syria and Israel are technically at war - the best evidence of that being the 30 years of on and off peace talks.

In that context no one, including Syria can simply say "the war is over, give us back the Golan." And that is my point about the Golan - international law does not say that Israel has to return the Golan simply because the war was 30 years ago. Especially since Syria was the aggressor.

BTW - I asked for proof of this: "The U.S. -- and many other nations -- have occupied states after war had both practically and "technically" ended."

Do you actually have anything?

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Response to hack89 (Reply #168)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 10:18 AM

171. Link to the international law you cite.

You cited it. Let's see it.

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Response to The Stranger (Reply #171)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 10:27 AM

172. "There is no requirement in international law..."

Can you at least read what I wrote first?

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Response to hack89 (Reply #172)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 10:52 AM

173. Link to the international law you cite.

" . . . international law is on Israel's side."

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Response to The Stranger (Reply #173)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 11:04 AM

174. "international law does not say ..."

I cannot cite what does not exist.

In black and white: There is nothing in international law that says that Israel has to return the Golan because the war was decades ago. Hence " . . . international law is on Israel's side."

Or in other words, nothing in international law supports Syria's position.

Is it clearer now?

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 04:10 AM

69. Obama needs to cut off all aid until Israel agrees to a PERMANENT moratorium on settlement expansion

No Israeli government that keeps expanding the settlements, all of which they KNOW are illegal, has any right to claim to want peace.

Please, voters of Israel, defeat Netanyahu and his party of death this January. They aren't on your side. They don't want peace. They don't care how many of you they get killed...they just want to be able to say "we won and they lost". It's masochistic for ANY Israeli to support keeping this government in power.

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 10:49 AM

87. They have enough unoccupied space already

I don't understand why they need to do this. You don't see the Netherlands settling in western Germany. Extremely pointless and sad.

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 10:51 AM

89. The Middle East chicken-and-egg blame game marches on

 

Would Israel have made that announcement if the UN had not voted to grant statehood to the Palestinians?

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #89)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:53 PM

101. Eventually, yes. Israel is doing us a favor by stopping its charade. nt

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #89)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 02:09 PM

117. They were only announcing what they had on the books before the current conflict

The fact that the Palestinians are getting traction in the UN is simply making them be less subtle.

They're expecting us to back them up on this, and I'm sure we will. We certainly carried a lot of stinky water for them trying to block the UN vote.

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Response to Hydra (Reply #117)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 02:12 PM

120. The standard US Israel/Palestine playbook:

1) Platitudes about peace process and negotiated settlement;
2) Unconditional support for Israel at UN;
3) Strong condemnation for anything Palestinians do to embarrass Israel;
4) Empty rhetoric pretending to be bothered by what Israel does;
5) Unconditional economic and military aid for Israel, no matter what it does.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #120)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 03:27 PM

123. Means to an end

I don't pretend to understand all the ins and outs, but from what I've heard Israel gives us a platform in the middle east and they eagerly test the weapons and security systems we give them for us in real world situations.

It's really disturbing how we blow each other up for something as ephemeral as "money."

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #120)

Wed Dec 5, 2012, 11:27 AM

164. thank you

the fact that US supports Israel no matter what Israel does to its neighbors, even when Israel kills American citizens (Rachel Corie, Furkan Dogan) is one of the reasons others in the ME hate the US.

I am sick and tired of the hypocrisy about Israel and the US money/armaments (my tax dollars) that support this bully regime.

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 01:02 PM

104. What kind of idiot still thinks these people want peace?

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Response to harun (Reply #104)

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 02:11 PM

119. The ones invested in the PR for this rather ugly operation

The sad thing is that under the rhetoric, those people still pretending peace is desirable don't actually support it...and are using increasingly desperate tactics to shut down the discussion.

I say, embrace your goals where all the world can see! It worked for Bush, right?

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 12:32 PM

175. One land, two peoples, two realities, two truths/lies need

2 states. Apply for job of peacemaker at your peril. Job will last for the next century or so, maybe more. No benefits or pension. Must provide own security detail. Psychological exam required as part of the application.

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