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Mon Nov 19, 2012, 07:21 AM

Palestinian civilian toll climbs in Gaza

Source: AP-Excite

By IBRAHIM BARZAK and KARIN LAUB

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip (AP) - Israeli aircraft struck crowded areas in the Gaza Strip on Monday, driving up the civilian death toll and in one case devastating several homes belonging to one clan - the fallout from a new tactic in Israel's six-day-old offensive meant to quell Hamas rocket fire on Israel.

Escalating its bombing campaign, Israel on Sunday began attacking homes of activists in Hamas, the Islamic militant group that rules Gaza. These attacks have led to a sharp spike in civilian casualties, killing 24 civilians in less than 24 hours, a Gaza health official said. Overall, the offensive that began Wednesday killed 91 Palestinians, including 50 civilians.

The rising civilian toll was likely to intensify pressure on Israel to end the fighting. Hundreds of civilian casualties in an Israeli offensive in Gaza four years ago led to fierce international condemnation of Israel.

Hamas fighters, meanwhile, have fired hundreds of rockets into Israel in the current round of fighting, including 12 on Monday, among them one that hit an empty school.

FULL story at link.


Read more: http://apnews.excite.com/article/20121119/DA2L13N03.html




A member of the Abdel Aal family is rescued after his family house collapsed during an Israeli forces strike in the Tufah neighbourhood, Gaza City, Sunday, Nov. 18, 2012. The Israeli military widened its range of targets in the Gaza Strip on Sunday to include the media operations of the Palestinian territory's Hamas rulers, sending its aircraft to attack two buildings used by both Hamas and foreign media outlets. (AP Photo/Majed Hamdan)

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Arrow 32 replies Author Time Post
Reply Palestinian civilian toll climbs in Gaza (Original post)
Omaha Steve Nov 2012 OP
darkangel218 Nov 2012 #1
Daniel537 Nov 2012 #2
subsuelo Nov 2012 #22
Ash_F Nov 2012 #3
Archae Nov 2012 #4
aandegoons Nov 2012 #5
SoapBox Nov 2012 #6
Daniel537 Nov 2012 #7
Ash_F Nov 2012 #8
Lars77 Nov 2012 #10
Bosonic Nov 2012 #11
CindyinIndy Nov 2012 #9
Fozzledick Nov 2012 #15
Marrah_G Nov 2012 #19
Fozzledick Nov 2012 #12
Scootaloo Nov 2012 #13
Fozzledick Nov 2012 #14
Lawlbringer Nov 2012 #16
Comrade Grumpy Nov 2012 #17
Fozzledick Nov 2012 #18
bunnies Nov 2012 #23
Fozzledick Nov 2012 #25
Mosby Nov 2012 #20
Igel Nov 2012 #21
Scootaloo Nov 2012 #24
Fozzledick Nov 2012 #26
Scootaloo Nov 2012 #27
Fozzledick Nov 2012 #28
Scootaloo Nov 2012 #29
Fozzledick Nov 2012 #30
Scootaloo Nov 2012 #31
Fozzledick Nov 2012 #32

Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 07:28 AM

1. Shit, this sucks :( nt

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Response to darkangel218 (Reply #1)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 07:32 AM

2. Yeah, war always hits the poor and most vulnerable hardest.

And once this conflict is over, politicians on both sides will claim "victory". Disgusting.

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Response to Daniel537 (Reply #2)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 06:03 PM

22. And partisans from both sides will continue to justify the killing n/t

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 07:34 AM

3. Attacking foreign media outlets?

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Response to Ash_F (Reply #3)


Response to Archae (Reply #4)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 08:48 AM

5. Oh you seem so broke up about the innocent.

It is always someone Else's fault when you justify murder.

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Response to aandegoons (Reply #5)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 09:01 AM

6. Ditto.

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Response to Archae (Reply #4)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 09:11 AM

7. Sounds exactly like the shit one reads over at Free Republic.

Degrading an entire group of people because of the actions of some political groups? Nice, real nice. People like you are exactly what's wrong with the world.

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Response to Archae (Reply #4)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 09:23 AM

8. The caption implies it was an agency other than Hamas

RE: "by both Hamas and foreign media outlets"

Reading comprehension.

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Response to Archae (Reply #4)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 09:36 AM

10. Sky News and ORF are not jihadist.

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Response to Ash_F (Reply #3)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 09:38 AM

11. Target of opportunity?

Gaza group Islamic Jihad: Israeli strike on media center kills 1 of its top militant leaders - @AP

https://twitter.com/BreakingNews/status/270535516473143297

Gaza militant group says top fighter killed

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip (AP) ó Palestinian militant group Islamic Jihad says an Israeli strike on a Gaza media center has killed one of its top militant leaders.

Monday's strike in downtown Gaza City was part of a widening 6-day-old offensive meant to quell Hamas rocket fire.

It's the second strike on the building in two days. The Hamas TV station, Al Aqsa, is located on the top floor.

Islamic Jihad has sent a text message to reporters saying that Ramez Harb was killed in the strike Monday. Harb is a leading figure in their militant wing, the Al Quds Brigades.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/palestinian-civilian-toll-climbs-israel-attacks

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 09:32 AM

9. Who is the REAL bully here?

Someone, please tell me?

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Response to CindyinIndy (Reply #9)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 12:19 PM

19. Both groups who are killing others are wrong

Both are locked in a endless circle of violence. Neither really wants peace.

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Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 10:01 AM

12. As the rocket attacks on Israeli civilians continue...

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Response to Fozzledick (Reply #12)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 10:35 AM

13. Because only Israeli lives matter, right?

Oh wait... you weren't talking about Israeli lives... My bad, that's a discussion you guys are avoiding like the plague. No, you're just talking about rockets fired, and not the loss of Israeli lives they incur.

Why is that?

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #13)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 10:42 AM

14. No, because the purpose of terrorism is to terrorize.

A policy you seem perfectly happy to support.

Why is that?

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Response to Fozzledick (Reply #14)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 11:17 AM

16. The purpose of terrorism is to terrorize...

Which would also mean that those who terrorize are terrorists, right?

Neither side is blameless, or "more innocent" than the other.

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Response to Fozzledick (Reply #14)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 11:56 AM

17. And what do you call massive aerial bombardment of urban areas?

Most of the world calls it a war crime.

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #17)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 12:01 PM

18. Not when it's targeted at offensive missle sites.

Why would you want to make excuses for them?

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Response to Fozzledick (Reply #18)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 06:39 PM

23. Theyre not bombing missile sites. Theyre bombing PEOPLE!

From the article:


Escalating its bombing campaign, Israel on Sunday began attacking homes of activists in Hamas, the Islamic militant group that rules Gaza. These attacks have led to a sharp spike in civilian casualties, killing 24 civilians in less than 24 hours, a Gaza health official said. Overall, the offensive that began Wednesday killed 91 Palestinians, including 50 civilians.


You ok with that?

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Response to bunnies (Reply #23)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 09:13 PM

25. Rocket force commanders? Absolutely!

Whatever it takes to end the rocket attacks once and for all.

Are you ok with them hiding behind civilians to deliberately produce casualties for propaganda?

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #17)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 01:16 PM

20. President Obama doesn't see it that way

WASHINGTON (JTA) -- President Obama told the Egyptian and Turkish leaders that a resolution to the Gaza-Israel violence must begin with an end to rocket fire into Israel.

"If weíre serious about wanting to resolve this situation and create a genuine peace process, it starts with no more missiles being fired into Israelís territory, and that then gives us the space to try to deal with these longstanding conflicts that exist," Obama said Sunday at a news conference in Bangkok, the first leg of his tour of Asian countries.

Obama said he had spoken multiple times with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, as well as with Egyptian President Mohamed Morsi and Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, who happened to be visiting Egypt during the current crisis.

Both leaders are among a handful of nations that have close ties with the Hamas leadership in the Gaza Strip.

Obama repeated his assertion that Hamas and other terrorist groups were responsible for the recent intensification of the violence.

"Letís understand what the precipitating event here was thatís causing the current crisis, and that was an ever-escalating number of missiles," the U.S. leader said. "They were landing not just in Israeli territory, but in areas that are populated. And thereís no country on Earth that would tolerate missiles raining down on its citizens from outside its borders.

"So we are fully supportive of Israelís right to defend itself from missiles landing on peopleís homes and workplaces and potentially killing civilians. And we will continue to support Israelís right to defend itself."

http://www.jta.org/news/article/2012/11/18/3112251/obama-missile-fire-from-gaza-must-stop-first

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Response to Mosby (Reply #20)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 02:38 PM

21. It's something the Turks should understand well.

When there are mortars and rockets that originate in Syria, they have no problem firing back to eliminate the problem and to threaten wider action if the attacks don't stop.

This is justice, they think, and that's an important principle.

However, the Turks don't get it. Or the principle they claim to uphold only applies to them--or they're simply lying because they know the world is happy to be lied to. Because as soon as missiles are fired at somebody else, all that matters if which side they like, and that's the real principle in play.

Now we condemn those that start the cycle all over again by firing missiles. Now we praise them.

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Response to Fozzledick (Reply #14)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 08:58 PM

24. Really? I support it?

Do tell, Fozzledick - do you mind if I just call you Dick? - tell me, Dick, how am I supporting terrorism here? Maybe you can sketch it out for me, Dick.

My point, Dick, is that you came into a thread talking about the deaths of 91 Palestinians, and your addition to it was "BUT THE ROCKETS!" Well, Dick, that argument amounts to the Chewbacca Defense. Dick, you seem to be making the point that 91 dead Palestinians since Wednesday should be overlooked, passed over, swept under the rug, because of those rockets. I think that's a shameful approach to the loss of human life, Dick, but it seems that maybe you disagree with that perspective.

Now, Dick, here's the thing. I'm with you, the constant rocket fire into Israel is terrible and reprehensible, and does need to stop. But the trouble is, Dick, as of the moment I'm typing this, we're up to 115 dead Palestinians since Wednesday, in response to these rockets. Do you know how many Israelis have died from those rockets, Dick? sixty-one. Period. Ever. Since 2001, sixty-one Israelis have died from these attacks, but since Wednesday, one hundred and fifteen Palestinains have been killed from Israeli bombs.

Now of course, 61 Israelis dead is sixty-one too many. if we can agree on that, why can't we seem to agree on the same for those dead Palestinians? Why is it that 115 dead Palestinians isn't enough?

Si, dick, here's where we stand. This is a thread about those dead Palestinians. You obviously think they shouldn't be spoken of, Dick. So the easy solution, Dick, is for you to just not show up and provide your... insightful input. Not so hard is it, Dick?

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #24)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 10:04 PM

26. Looks like it to me, Scat.

You don't mind if I call you Scat, since we're being so friendly and all, do you? That seems to be the nickname you've picked up around here.

I do wonder, though, about your obsession with my last syllable. Most people know better than to mess with it, but you just can't seem to get enough. I guess it's just a matter of taste.

Speaking of which, I don't have much patience for your disingenuous habit of trying to put words in other people's mouths. Sure, I can understand why you'd rather argue with your own straw man than what other people actually say, it's easy and avoids the real issues, but it just strikes me as dishonest and cowardly. Plus it makes having a serious discussion as difficult as having an honest debate with Mitt Romney.

But what really steams me is the triumphant flaunting of civilian casualties out of context to vilify Israel for defending herself against the terrorists who are actually responsible for causing them, and who actively seek to produce them for propaganda purposes. When I see people eagerly playing along with their deadly game it's hard not to presume that they support their goals and methods, although I suppose some could just be useful idiots.

So maybe you can help me out here, Scat. I tend to see the Israel bashers around here as falling into two camps: the hardcore haters who see Israel as a Great Satanic Evil than must be destroyed, and the "reasonable moderates" who say both sides are bad so blame Israel. You seem to be positioning yourself in the later group, but I can't ignore the sickening stench of the former. I'm hoping you can clear that up for me, Scat, but I don't really expect very much from you.

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Response to Fozzledick (Reply #26)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 10:36 PM

27. Buckling down on stupid doesn't make it any smarter, Dick

Seriously, now you're saying that those dead Palestinians are terrorist propaganda. After whining about me pointing out that you were trying to dismiss those very same deaths and deflect from the topic of them. Make up your mind about whether or not you want context applied, will you, Dick? 'Cause taken in context, your posts are exactly what I'm saying they are. And you're kind of defending that point for me, right there.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #27)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 10:58 PM

28. I actually tried to make sense out of that gibberish.

But on the third try I realized there's no point trying to argue with a Gish Gallop. All it really shows is what I've already noted about your habit of trying to put your own perverse words in other people's mouths.

For what it's worth I think I was perfectly clear that I blame Hamas for starting the war that resulted in civilian casualties, as well as a cynically brutal policy of deliberately drawing fire onto their own civilians for propaganda purposes. I can't believe you're actually dumb enough to not understand that, but I'm sure you'll try to prove me wrong.

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Response to Fozzledick (Reply #28)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 11:15 PM

29. Do you even know what the gish gallop is?

Or are you just randomly selecting terms from a list of logical fallacies and hoping one might actually work?

Yes, you and I both blame Hamas for starting this, Fozzledick. Where we differ, is that I don't think that means that the deaths of innocent Palestinians should be ignored and dismissed as "propaganda."

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #29)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 11:34 PM

30. I never said they should be ignored and dismissed.

That's just your projection. I wish you'd stop arguing with the voices in your head.

What I said is that I'm sick of seeing them cynically used as propaganda.

If you disagree, then you share the blame for promoting it. If not, then what are you arguing for?

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Response to Fozzledick (Reply #30)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 11:45 PM

31. Sure read that way to me

What with you deflecting from the topic of Palestinians being killed, and your subsequent dismissal of them as "propaganda."

What I'm arguing is that you are disingenuously backpedaling from the position you have taken so far, that these deaths should not be spoken of or mentioned. Frankly, your angle of propaganda is worse than what you are pretending to rail about; Hamas BS or no Hamas BS, these people have died, and their deaths deserve attention. Which is something that you evidently feel should be denied to them, since apparently to you, recognizing these deaths is "supporting terrorism."

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #31)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 11:54 PM

32. OK, I'll just leave you to argue with the voices in your head.

Arguing with fools can sometimes be amusing, but eventually their willful denial of reality just gets tedious, and you've already crossed that line. Have fun playing with yourself, but I'd appreciate it if you'd keep your hands off my last syllable.

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