Libyan militia 'executed 67 detainees'

Were you expecting a regime of fluffy bunnies?

Sweetness and light has never yet ruled in the MidEast.

Western powers will support whatever faction is most likely to promote their interests in the region, even if the faction in question commits atrocities, just as always.

That's the 'and'.

That's true for every nation on earth. Every. Single. One.

But how bloody arrogant to assume someone else's victory would be played by the rules that suit you. Now go out and look hard for a nation that lives up to your standards. Maybe the Maldives?

That implicates the countries that supported the rebels, morally if not legally.

You have a right and obligation to make them respect your values, if you have any.

and that it would not intervene in other countries in a manner that would cause harm, and also hope that my fellow citizens would demand the same. Only Libyans have a right to violently overthrow their own government if they must.

I'm not sure what your post means, really. I just want US aggression and imperialism to end. It distracts from important issues that concern everyone on the planet, like global climate change and overpopulation and such. The US it seems, being the most powerful country on earth, is the most logical choice to set the good example.

Does anyone think there would have only been 70 executed if the rebellion had failed? Gaddafi's forces had already murdered thousands in the fight. Mainly taking civilians from their homes and killing them in the street. Maybe these executions were just paybacks for the murders They had commited before they were caught.

executions are executions.

Gaddafi's ran a very tight dictatorship, but like most Long Lasting dictatorship a very low rate of killings. Cuba under Castro is a similar old secure dictatorship, very few executions and just 141 "Political Prisoners" at the present time (Cuba says it has none, all 141 alleged political prisoners commented crimes, such as accepting money from Foreign Governments and groups in Florida who want to overthrow the present Cuba Government).

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/salim-lamrani/cuba-and-the-number-of-po_b_689845.html

As to Libya, the number of people executed is very limited, based on what can be determined given the lack of verification of who was a prisoner and what happened to them:

No Reported executions in 2007:
http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/libya/report-2007

Nine in 2008:
http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/libya/report-2008

None reported in 2009:
http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/asset/ACT50/001/2010/en/17348b70-3fc7-40b2-a258-af92778c73e5/act500012010en.pdf

Only four was known to 2010:
http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/libya/report-2010

18 executions were reported in 2011:
http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/asset/POL10/001/2011/en/519da037-1492-4620-9ed5-cac8f1cfd591/pol100012011en.pdf

Now, Libya was viewed as a Country that did NOT tolerate dissent and the number of Political prisoners were unknown. Amnesty International did not even try to make an estimate. Unlike the 11 Amnesty International reported for Cuba and that the US will retain 48 prisoners in Guantanamo with trial for no Charges could be brought against them, but the US did not want to release them. Amnesty International refused to call those 48 Political Prisoners but that is what they are.

http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/asset/POL10/001/2011/en/519da037-1492-4620-9ed5-cac8f1cfd591/pol100012011en.pdf

From the reports I have read, most deaths over the last two years seems to be related to battle causalities. They are reports of Civilian Deaths during protests but those all seem to be in single digits only (i.e. less then 10) in various protests (Most 1-4 deaths). MOst Civilian Deaths seems to be tied in with how the battle was going, i.e. they were caught in the cross fire. That would be normal in this type of revolution followed by Civil War. Low Deaths counts in the beginning when the protests are peaceful, but escalating as the revolt turns to the use of violence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Libyan_civil_war

My point is the 70 people killed or wounded from this convoy would have been one of the single greatest loss of life during the Revolution not incurred by people actually involved in fighting. Remember this Convoy had surrendered and offering no opposition to the unit that captured it.

We also have to understand all of the above are estimates only, we have no firm hard numbers (The people in charge of both sides were NOT counting they losses) and the rebels had reasons to inflate their losses to get more Western Aide, while Gaddafi's wanted to keep the reports of his losses low, to keep up the moral of his troops.

As to the accusations of Gaddafi's men taking people out of their homes and killing them, that appears to be more Rebel Propaganda then relatively, the reason is Gaddafi's men were subject to almost constant Air Attack, they had no Air Cover thus had to prepare defensive position under the observations of NATO planes (and prepare places to retreat under those same conditions and often had to retreat under those same conditions), thus had no time for the various accusations of Murder and Rape made about Gaddafi's troops. Most accusations of Rape and Murder by Gaddafi's forces have been dismissed as propaganda as people sought to confirm such murders and rapes could NOT confirm that they happened (and Libya has no tradition of "Honor Killings", the tradition is to kill people who rape relatives NOT to kill the victim thus no Social barriers to confirming the reports of such rapes and murders).

My comments is that they is NO FACTUAL support for your statement that if these people would NOT have been killed they themselves would have committed Murder and Rapes and thus my request that you provide some actual DATA to support such a statement. Gaddafi's was NOT a nice person, and had killed thousands in the Revolution and Civil War, but those almost all appear to be combat related and thus NOT Murder. If you want to use the terms "murdered thousands" please provide the data of such murders, not just repeat the propaganda of the winning side.

Thanks for the eye opener.

They may or may not be. Fact is, if the government tolerates extra-judicial killings based on who they like or don't like, they are effectively ruling as a dictatorship. Who is to say that those people were not opposition of the currently ruling faction and not in fact "Gaddafi forces"?

Payback could be easily done, through a legal process, like was done in Egypt or even Iraq. This payback can result in executions. But if there is a pattern of people simply "disappearing" and winding up dead, this is bad news.

Still I'm going to hold that slaughtering thousands of civilians like Gaddafi had flat out said he would do (pre-NATO intervention he threatened to burn Benghazi to the ground) to be a much bigger crime than executions of Gaddafi fighters, even if both are crimes. This story fails with its intended purpose of arguing that Gaddafi was the good guy in that civil war.