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Thu Oct 4, 2012, 10:00 AM

Romney Goes On Offense, Pays For It In First Wave Of Fact Checks

Source: NPR

Here is a sample of what's being reported about the truthiness of what Obama and Romney had to say Wednesday night on stage at the University of Denver:


One of the biggest disputes was over tax cuts. Obama argued that Romney's plan to stimulate the economy includes a tax cut totaling $5 trillion that, Obama said, isn't possible because the Republican nominee is also promising to spend money in other places.

Romney flatly disputed that number. "First of all, I don't have a $5 trillion tax cut," he said.

Who's right? The Washington Post's Fact Checker says the facts on this one are on Obama's side. The New York Times notes that Romney "has proposed cutting all marginal tax rates by 20 percent which would in and of itself cut tax revenue by $5 trillion."

FactCheck.org has weighed in too, tweeting during the debate that "Romney says he will pay for $5T tax cut without raising deficit or raising taxes on middle class. Experts say that's not possible."

Read more: http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics/2012/10/03/162263539/romney-goes-on-offense-pays-for-it-in-first-wave-of-fact-checks?ft=1&f=1014&sc=tw

24 replies, 7379 views

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Arrow 24 replies Author Time Post
Reply Romney Goes On Offense, Pays For It In First Wave Of Fact Checks (Original post)
kpete Oct 2012 OP
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Oct 2012 #1
wordpix Oct 2012 #20
SunSeeker Oct 2012 #2
RickFromMN Oct 2012 #3
Marthe48 Oct 2012 #4
groundloop Oct 2012 #5
Marthe48 Oct 2012 #11
Plucketeer Oct 2012 #7
Marthe48 Oct 2012 #12
KamaAina Oct 2012 #14
Marthe48 Oct 2012 #22
KamaAina Oct 2012 #23
Marthe48 Oct 2012 #24
Indpndnt Oct 2012 #6
littlemissmartypants Oct 2012 #8
littlemissmartypants Oct 2012 #9
Blue State Bandit Oct 2012 #10
pandr32 Oct 2012 #13
Kalidurga Oct 2012 #15
NHDEMFORLIFE Oct 2012 #16
Mockingjay Oct 2012 #17
Uncle Joe Oct 2012 #18
verdin2 Oct 2012 #19
ailsagirl Oct 2012 #21

Response to kpete (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 10:06 AM

1. Facts? Mitt don't need no stinking facts.

Why do you think lyin' Ryan is his running mate?

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Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Reply #1)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 01:16 PM

20. Mittwit has even said as much about "fact checkers"

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 10:15 AM

2. The Romney Campaign "will not be dicatated to by factcheckers." nt

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 10:38 AM

3. I hope President Obama's SuperPAC advertises what the fact checks find.


Otherwise, many voters will be uninformed, will believe Romney when Romney talks about $716 billion, will be fooled.

Why couldn't President Obama have done a better job calling Romney out when Romney told lies?

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Response to RickFromMN (Reply #3)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 11:02 AM

4. Too many lies, too little time

President Obama was prepared to have a real debate, based on facts, but Romney came to the podium ready to "lie for the Lord." Mormon doctrine approves lying as a way to get and keep converts. Mormon doctrine also allows testimony before heartfelt belief. So Romney can lie, and as soon as it is out of his mouth, he is supposed to feel that in his heart, it is true. Why no one will discuss how Mormon doctrine will influence his behavior is a mystery to me.

Read up on Romney's as governor--what a screwed-up job he did there-alienated about everyone in the Massachusetts state government, it seems. No wonder he chose not to run for re-election--he would've lost by a landslide!

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Response to Marthe48 (Reply #4)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 11:12 AM

5. I agree with you, however I wish Pres. O would have at least called BullShit on one or two lies

IMO, Pres. O should have pounced on that $716 Billion lie. Maybe I'm overreacting, but I felt somewhat disheartened, maybe it's because of how much it pisses me off to hear someone lie and get away with it. I believe that calling out just a handful of the lies would have sowed the seeds of doubt in peoples minds about the rest of R-Money's performance, as it was the lies were just left out there untouched.

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Response to groundloop (Reply #5)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 11:51 AM

11. There is time to refute

and I do think Mitt was real close to losing his temper. If he loses it in the last debate, it'll be more memorable on Nov 6th.

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Response to Marthe48 (Reply #4)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 11:17 AM

7. A bit misleading to point a finger at Mormons

Hell, ALL religions rely on lying as justification for their very being! Besides the owners manuals all these faiths hold forth to guide them, what the hell else is there for tangible proof that there's ANY reality for them to stand upon?

Mitt and Lyan are liars - there's no disputing that. And they should bear the lie-ability for their lies on their own.

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Response to Plucketeer (Reply #7)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 11:54 AM

12. Just saying, he is part of a culture

which doesn't exclude lying as a means of re-enforcing their view of reality. I grew up with the Ten Commandments and a brother who preferred lying to truth. I am really turned off by deliberate lies, religion or character-based.

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Response to Marthe48 (Reply #4)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 12:15 PM

14. Is that true?

Mormon doctrine approves lying as a way to get and keep converts.

If so, how have Mormons gained wide renown for their honesty?

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Response to KamaAina (Reply #14)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 05:16 PM

22. I read about it here:

http://www.mormonwiki.org/Lying_for_the_Lord

I read about it in a news story and googled it, thought this was a good read to learn more. I would never insult someone's religion, but I have been reading that a lot of people who were Mormon have been leaving their church, for various reasons.

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Response to Marthe48 (Reply #22)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 07:00 PM

23. That site is run by evangelicals and aims to discredit the Mormons

http://www.mormonwiki.org/Evangelism_to_Mormons

Basic worldview
"If we are to convert our heathen neighbours, we must understand their culture," (C.S. Lewis, Christian Reflections, "Christianity and Culture", p. 17)

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Response to KamaAina (Reply #23)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 10:54 PM

24. If you read the approved Mormon sites

You'll get an enthusiastic description of their church. If you read blogs from ex-Mormons, you get their view. There is a lot of material out there and as you read, you can make up your own mind.

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Response to RickFromMN (Reply #3)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 11:13 AM

6. Of course, he'll have those commercials. We've already seen rapid response to past idiocy.

The new commercials will be brutal.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 11:39 AM

8. Say good by to Public TV could radio be far down on the list?

Thank you for this post. We NEED this discussion.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021467650

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 11:41 AM

9. The lying is the least of our problems

these folks are cunningly evil.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 11:45 AM

10. Obama should offer Rmoney a chair in the last debate.

"Could I offer you a chair Governor? I only ask because your arguments just make more sense with a chair in the room."

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Response to Blue State Bandit (Reply #10)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 11:54 AM

13. Perfect!

Right on!

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 12:27 PM

15. It seems as if Romney has in popular opinion won the debate.

But, I think it is more like the death of a thousand cuts, most of them if not all of them self inflicted. I watched as Obama let Mitt cut himself and just when it seemed that Mitt's razor was getting dull Obama let him have another. Mitt and the audience thought that he did well in the debates. All I saw was Mitt destroying himself. His lies even if not challenged in the debate would become fodder for devastating political ads. Mitt now has set a higher bar for himself and he barely made it over the bar of low expectations, I don't see how he can get over the hurdle of his own making. He can't walk back the win and he can't get over the hurdle of high expectations in the next round. My guess, is he will lie even more in the next debate and he will keep going back to the same old tired talking points it's all he has. Also his zingers where were they? Maybe in Mitt's world lies = zingers.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 12:31 PM

16. This will be the lingering storyline

In the moment, Romney did "win". Thanks to the shallow commentary on TV (from both sides of the aisle), casual voters are going to measure the winner and loser by what kind of show they put on. Romney put on a show; the president, when compared to the bellowing man beside him, came off like a college professor.
But over the next few days, I'd be willing to bet that Romney's penchant for flat-out lying will be the story and will offset most, if not all, of any gains he made.

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Response to NHDEMFORLIFE (Reply #16)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 12:58 PM

17. I have to agree

the flat out lying will be the story going forward.... I watched and what I saw, was a President that was there to see what Rommney would say and do, and respond in a dignefied way and not to blow his cool....I saw Rommney as sort of hysterical, rude and on speed or something? Then the pundits trounced President Obama for not fighting and playing hardball with Rommney...well ... I don't see it that way. The President had to stick with the facts as he knew them and he wasn't going to get down and dirty with an agressive hostil liar. I think as people review the facts president Obama will gain even more respect for staying in control of his emotions and explaining complicated issues in such a short time. Rommney will continue to be the jackass that he is to stir the hate groups that he wants to vote for him....not much has changed for this first debate.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 01:06 PM

18. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, kpete.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 01:11 PM

19. Spam deleted by Behind the Aegis (MIR Team)

 

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 04:41 PM

21. The story is clearly still evolving

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