HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » Latest Breaking News (Forum) » Investigation finds no ev...

Wed Sep 19, 2012, 02:20 PM

Investigation finds no evidence AG Eric Holder knew of 'Fast and Furious' gun-running sting

Source: NBC News

A long-awaited report on the U.S. government’s controversial gun-trafficking operation known as “Fast and Furious” released Wednesday found no evidence that Attorney General Eric Holder knew of the botched effort to trace the flow of guns to Mexico’s drug cartels prior to its public unraveling in January 2011.

The report by the Justice Department’s inspector general said there "no evidence that Attorney General Eric Holder was informed about Operation Fast and Furious, or learned about the tactics employed by ATF in the investigation" before Congress began pressing him for information about it in early 2011.

The inspector general did determine that the acting deputy attorney general, Gary Grindler, received a briefing about the ill-fated gun-tracing operation in March 2010, but that the briefing "failed to alert Grindler to problems in the investigation."

Read more: http://openchannel.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/09/19/13966068-investigation-finds-no-evidence-ag-eric-holder-knew-of-fast-and-furious-gun-running-sting?lite



more at link

44 replies, 3708 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 44 replies Author Time Post
Reply Investigation finds no evidence AG Eric Holder knew of 'Fast and Furious' gun-running sting (Original post)
Viva_La_Revolution Sep 2012 OP
monmouth Sep 2012 #1
democrat_patriot Sep 2012 #2
Panasonic Sep 2012 #3
Hoyt Sep 2012 #4
bongbong Sep 2012 #11
Hoyt Sep 2012 #15
bongbong Sep 2012 #16
Kingofalldems Sep 2012 #5
librechik Sep 2012 #6
former9thward Sep 2012 #20
pkdu Sep 2012 #31
former9thward Sep 2012 #35
lamp_shade Sep 2012 #7
hughee99 Sep 2012 #8
Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2012 #42
bpj62 Sep 2012 #9
mindwalker_i Sep 2012 #10
Mnpaul Sep 2012 #12
Scuba Sep 2012 #13
Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2012 #14
underpants Sep 2012 #17
Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2012 #19
former9thward Sep 2012 #21
Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2012 #22
former9thward Sep 2012 #25
Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2012 #27
former9thward Sep 2012 #28
pkdu Sep 2012 #32
former9thward Sep 2012 #36
Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2012 #41
underpants Sep 2012 #44
hack89 Sep 2012 #23
Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2012 #24
former9thward Sep 2012 #26
Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2012 #29
former9thward Sep 2012 #30
Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2012 #34
former9thward Sep 2012 #37
Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2012 #39
pkdu Sep 2012 #33
Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2012 #38
hack89 Sep 2012 #40
Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2012 #43
underpants Sep 2012 #18

Response to Viva_La_Revolution (Original post)

Wed Sep 19, 2012, 02:28 PM

1. During the Q&A period of the infamous Rmoney dinner in Boca, one of the questioners made the

statement that Eric Holder "was one of the most corrupt people in the administration," before he went on to malign Nancy Pelosi. I wondered about that statement and wonder if this is what his low information comment was about.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Viva_La_Revolution (Original post)

Wed Sep 19, 2012, 02:28 PM

2. Some good ammo for those people that like to bring this up.


You know...'those people'.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Viva_La_Revolution (Original post)

Wed Sep 19, 2012, 02:29 PM

3. Now can we send Issa to the Ethics Committe

 

for a permanent expulsion from Congress?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Viva_La_Revolution (Original post)

Wed Sep 19, 2012, 02:29 PM

4. Well, that will make the NRA and right wing gun crowd very unhappy.


They've been hoping to impeach Holder/Obama with this or some other trumped up charges.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Hoyt (Reply #4)

Wed Sep 19, 2012, 03:37 PM

11. MIA

 

The DU Gun Lobby is MIA on this thread. Maybe they're too busy having a collective whine-fest at the latest developments in the SYG murder case of Zimmerman.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bongbong (Reply #11)

Wed Sep 19, 2012, 04:39 PM

15. Yep, their disappointment is palpable.


How have you been? Say hello to everyone.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Hoyt (Reply #15)

Wed Sep 19, 2012, 05:05 PM

16. LOL

 

Last edited Wed Sep 19, 2012, 05:05 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

The DU Gun Lobby in the gungeon seem to be quite content spewing their lies without your inconvenient truths to sully their bubble world.

I might be joining you soon. Look at this post, about how worthless my posts are. Note the sender:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=72849

Just a matter of time until I get the Zimmerman treatment over there. I'll try to relate your greetings to everyone while I still can.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Viva_La_Revolution (Original post)

Wed Sep 19, 2012, 02:32 PM

5. And I remember at least one gungeoneer pronounced him guilty as charged

Imagine that.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Viva_La_Revolution (Original post)

Wed Sep 19, 2012, 02:36 PM

6. good news is that Issa is revealed to all as a malicious idiot. Bad news is

why did Holder not know? mostly because the program had already ended months before he took office. But facts like these will not sway the RW narrative against Holder.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to librechik (Reply #6)

Wed Sep 19, 2012, 08:11 PM

20. You must be thinking about another program.

Fast and Furious began in November, 2009. Holder was the AG then.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to former9thward (Reply #20)

Wed Sep 19, 2012, 10:40 PM

31. Flat Wrong on the start date of F&F n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pkdu (Reply #31)

Wed Sep 19, 2012, 10:48 PM

35. If I'm "flat wrong" then why didn't you supply the correct date?

Hmmmmm. I just go by what the Inspector General's report said. http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/sections/news/Fast_Furious_Report.pdf

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Viva_La_Revolution (Original post)

Wed Sep 19, 2012, 02:40 PM

7. I really, really, really want to hear Issa's response. n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Viva_La_Revolution (Original post)

Wed Sep 19, 2012, 02:41 PM

8. Does anyone else find it disturbing that someone in the AG's office or ATF,

can decide to hand guns over to violent criminals, and no one is required to actually tell the AG about it?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hughee99 (Reply #8)

Wed Sep 19, 2012, 11:24 PM

42. No. Because it was just one agent who was an asshole.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Viva_La_Revolution (Original post)

Wed Sep 19, 2012, 02:44 PM

9. Civil Contempt of Congress Charges

Darryll Issa filed a civil case demanding that Holder and the Whitehouse turn over the disputed emails. Does this revelation by the IG make that civil filing moot. I have a feeling that Issa will take this case to the Supreme Court.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Viva_La_Revolution (Original post)

Wed Sep 19, 2012, 03:11 PM

10. DAmnit, that's the wrong answer!

I heard that coming from the east from California.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Viva_La_Revolution (Original post)

Wed Sep 19, 2012, 03:38 PM

12. The comments are priceless

I can't just imagine the cons spitting at the screen as they type.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Viva_La_Revolution (Original post)

Wed Sep 19, 2012, 03:56 PM

13. Investigation finds no evidence AG Eric Holder has a clue.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Viva_La_Revolution (Original post)

Wed Sep 19, 2012, 04:06 PM

14. There WAS NO gun running being done by the government. ZERO.

"Fast and Furious" was a reference to some guys they were monitoring who were running guns and using the money to trick out their cars. The officers wanted to arrest them but couldn't because the laws were too lenient.

The whole "Fast and Furious" story as presented by the Right Wing was a fiction.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #14)

Wed Sep 19, 2012, 07:05 PM

17. Actually they ran 6 guns...6 total guns

On June 1, Dodson used $2,500 in ATF funds to purchase six AK Draco pistols from local gun dealers, and gave these to Fernandez, who reimbursed him and gave him $700 for his efforts. Two days later, according to case records, Dodson—who would later testify that in his previous experience, "if even one got away from us, nobody went home until we found it"—left on a scheduled vacation without interdicting the guns

http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2012/06/27/fast-and-furious-truth/

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to underpants (Reply #17)

Wed Sep 19, 2012, 07:39 PM

19. That was one guy who got in trouble for it and later posed as THE darling of FOX "News",...

Last edited Wed Sep 19, 2012, 07:40 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

...the agency itself had no gun walking program.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #14)

Wed Sep 19, 2012, 08:24 PM

21. That is not what the IG report says.

It says officers wanted to arrest gun runners but were prevented by supervisors. Nothing about laws being too lenient.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to former9thward (Reply #21)

Wed Sep 19, 2012, 09:13 PM

22. Read the article.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #22)

Wed Sep 19, 2012, 10:19 PM

25. I read the chapter on Fast and Furoius in the IG report.

I also read the conclusions of the IG report. Maybe you should try that. http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/sections/news/Fast_Furious_Report.pdf

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink



Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #27)

Wed Sep 19, 2012, 10:27 PM

28. You are running from the IG's report for some reason.

It is very thorough and complete, over 500 pages. I'll go by that, thanks.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to former9thward (Reply #28)

Wed Sep 19, 2012, 10:44 PM

32. Even though you haven't read them by your own admission...say no more. Nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pkdu (Reply #32)

Wed Sep 19, 2012, 10:52 PM

36. I read the relevant sections of the IG's report.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to former9thward (Reply #28)

Wed Sep 19, 2012, 11:21 PM

41. That's like saying the 911 Commission Report is the last word.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to former9thward (Reply #28)

Thu Sep 20, 2012, 06:57 AM

44. I posted the Fortune Mag article too because that is a good summary

granted the OIG report is more complete but the Fortune article spells out succinctly what all of the elements of this disaster were.

The Fortune article, of course, didn't or couldn't state Holder's knowledge of the operation.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #14)

Wed Sep 19, 2012, 09:27 PM

23. The ATF stood by and let 2000 guns be smuggled into Mexico by cartel gun runners

where they promptly lost track of them.

This is the actual footnote from the report that explains the Fast and Furious name.

84 The investigation of the first four individuals was initially named “Chambers, Jacob,
et al.” The investigation of Patino was initially opened as a separate matter. The merged
investigation carried the Chambers case name, but was also referred to as “the Fast and the
Furious” no later than February 2010 when agents learned that subjects of the investigation
were members of a car club and ATF received approval to conduct the case as an OCDETF
investigation. We refer to the Chambers investigation as “Operation Fast and Furious” for
purposes of this report.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #23)

Wed Sep 19, 2012, 09:44 PM

24. I repeat, there was no gun running done by the government.

From the article:

"The ATF's accusers seem untroubled by evidence that the policy they have pilloried didn't actually exist."

The whole point was to attack for political gain.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #24)

Wed Sep 19, 2012, 10:24 PM

26. You quote an article, I'll quote the IG report.

For the reasons we explained in Chapter Four, we found that
even though these FFLs were not under the direct supervision and control of
ATF agents as the FFL was in Operation Wide Receiver, the extent and nature
of ATF’s requests for cooperation from FFL1 and FFL2 created at least the
appearance that sales to particular Operation Fast and Furious subjects were
made with ATF’s approval and authorization.


Second, the relationships with the FFLs in these two investigations
created at least the appearance that ATF agents approved or encouraged sales
of firearms that they knew were unlawful and that they did not intend to seize.

In Operation Wide Receiver, agents clearly sanctioned the unlawful sale of
firearms; in Operation Fast and Furious, we found that agents emphasized to
the cooperating FFLs the value of their cooperation and sought additional
cooperation that could be satisfied only by completing sales, at least giving the
impression to these FFLs that ATF wanted the sales to continue.

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/sections/news/Fast_Furious_Report.pdf

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to former9thward (Reply #26)

Wed Sep 19, 2012, 10:30 PM

29. "at least the appearance"

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #29)

Wed Sep 19, 2012, 10:39 PM

30. I think the only LOLing going on is people looking at your posts.

I posted the link to the entire report. People can decide who to believe - you or the IG.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to former9thward (Reply #30)

Wed Sep 19, 2012, 10:47 PM

34. Wrong choice. It's between fact and fiction...

The article by Fortune blew the lid off of this whole thing.

That's why you don't hear about it anymore.

Except for the cleanup on aisle 9....

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #34)

Wed Sep 19, 2012, 10:54 PM

37. So now the IG's report is right wing fiction??

Ok. Aisle 9 for the tin foil hats.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to former9thward (Reply #37)

Wed Sep 19, 2012, 10:57 PM

39. No, it's leaving and OUT to avoid criticism.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #29)

Wed Sep 19, 2012, 10:47 PM

33. Yep, that phrase twice....and

"at least the impression" too....

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pkdu (Reply #33)

Wed Sep 19, 2012, 10:56 PM

38. That's legalese for "Not really".

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #24)

Wed Sep 19, 2012, 11:03 PM

40. True - just monumental incompetence

that undoubtedly led to the deaths of people. People definitely deserve to go to jail for this.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hack89 (Reply #40)

Wed Sep 19, 2012, 11:26 PM

43. Why is it so hard for some people to realize they've been lied to?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Viva_La_Revolution (Original post)

Wed Sep 19, 2012, 07:06 PM

18. LMELAO

EverLoving



But then we all knew after the Fortune magazine article 3 months ago
http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2012/06/27/fast-and-furious-truth/

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread