HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » Latest Breaking News (Forum) » Boy Scouts: We're keeping...
Introducing Discussionist: A new forum by the creators of DU

Tue Jul 17, 2012, 12:04 PM

Boy Scouts: We're keeping policy banning gays

Source: MSNBC

The Boy Scouts of America will keep their controversial policy banning gay scouts and leaders after a confidential two-year review, the organization said Tuesday.

The announcement comes amid a stepped-up campaign from activist groups urging an end to the membership guidelines.

The Boy Scouts convened a committee of volunteers and professional leaders in 2010 to decide whether the policy was still in the organization’s best interests after a resolution was put forward to reconsider it, the private group said in a statement that was first reported by The Associated Press.

... “The committee included a diversity of perspectives and opinions. The review included forthright and candid conversation and extensive research and evaluations – both from within Scouting and from outside the organization. The committee’s work and conclusion is that this policy reflects the beliefs and perspectives of the BSA’s members, thereby allowing Scouting to remain focused on its mission and the work it is doing to serve more youth,” the statement said.

Read more: http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/07/17/12790471-boy-scouts-were-keeping-policy-banning-gays

57 replies, 6732 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 57 replies Author Time Post
Reply Boy Scouts: We're keeping policy banning gays (Original post)
Newsjock Jul 2012 OP
dbackjon Jul 2012 #1
iamthebandfanman Jul 2012 #2
tk2kewl Jul 2012 #4
KurtNYC Jul 2012 #48
tk2kewl Jul 2012 #49
KurtNYC Jul 2012 #50
tk2kewl Jul 2012 #53
KurtNYC Jul 2012 #55
tk2kewl Jul 2012 #57
Sentath Jul 2012 #56
AlbertCat Jul 2012 #3
CBGLuthier Jul 2012 #5
Canuckistanian Jul 2012 #43
sakabatou Jul 2012 #44
Bradical79 Jul 2012 #46
The_Casual_Observer Jul 2012 #6
Gothmog Jul 2012 #18
hunter Jul 2012 #22
byeya Jul 2012 #23
The_Casual_Observer Jul 2012 #38
byeya Jul 2012 #42
RKP5637 Jul 2012 #54
AsahinaKimi Jul 2012 #7
The_Casual_Observer Jul 2012 #8
AsahinaKimi Jul 2012 #9
The_Casual_Observer Jul 2012 #13
AsahinaKimi Jul 2012 #17
PavePusher Jul 2012 #35
The_Casual_Observer Jul 2012 #37
PavePusher Jul 2012 #39
The_Casual_Observer Jul 2012 #40
PavePusher Jul 2012 #41
obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #10
Raster Jul 2012 #11
dmallind Jul 2012 #12
LynneSin Jul 2012 #14
onehandle Jul 2012 #15
Gothmog Jul 2012 #20
onehandle Jul 2012 #21
Gothmog Jul 2012 #25
Sgent Jul 2012 #16
Gothmog Jul 2012 #19
Spider Jerusalem Jul 2012 #24
Healing and Hope Jul 2012 #26
tomm2thumbs Jul 2012 #27
Healing and Hope Jul 2012 #28
tomm2thumbs Jul 2012 #29
johnnypneumatic Jul 2012 #30
dmallind Jul 2012 #31
brooklynite Jul 2012 #32
alphafemale Jul 2012 #33
Catlover123 Jul 2012 #34
PavePusher Jul 2012 #36
AlbertCat Jul 2012 #45
4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #47
unblock Jul 2012 #51
RKP5637 Jul 2012 #52

Response to Newsjock (Original post)

Tue Jul 17, 2012, 12:07 PM

1. Fuck the Boy Scouts and the bigots that run them.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Newsjock (Original post)

Tue Jul 17, 2012, 12:07 PM

2. I was a boy scout..

and Id NEVER encourage my children to do the same.

Just have to hope more people feel like me, and their numbers continue to decline (while the girl scouts increases lol)...

its the best way to handle these private fucks who get the right to discriminate..
just make their existence minimal and irrelevant

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to iamthebandfanman (Reply #2)

Tue Jul 17, 2012, 12:08 PM

4. I was cub scout. I didn't like it much and we started a 4H club instead.

way better!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to tk2kewl (Reply #4)

Wed Jul 18, 2012, 01:24 PM

48. I did both but loved 4H -- there were girls

and coffee.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KurtNYC (Reply #48)

Wed Jul 18, 2012, 01:32 PM

49. girls girls girls

although besides girls i was introduced to weed and booze through 4H too on what we use to call "work weekends" where we did maintenance on the 4H summer camp during the off seasons.

All in all a good experience but definitely some bumps along the way due to the teenage partying

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to tk2kewl (Reply #49)

Wed Jul 18, 2012, 01:45 PM

50. 4H was where I, as a city kid, met the most mature and responsible of my peers, eg farm kids

They were friendly, happy and did no whining. They knew biology and they were honest and trust worthy (they didn't just talk about those tings, they lived it).

Made the Boy Scouts seem very immature and pointless.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KurtNYC (Reply #50)

Wed Jul 18, 2012, 01:56 PM

53. most of the 4Hers I knew were Long Island suburbanites

but there is a great camp in Riverhead where we got to do farming stuff hands on

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to tk2kewl (Reply #53)

Wed Jul 18, 2012, 04:53 PM

55. I grew up near Rochester and was the lone city kid

in a roomful of farm kids from dairy, apples, corn and vegetable farms. There was a horse track in our town too. I knew less about farming that any of them but they never made me feel even the least bit unwelcome.

Years later, I am looking at a 10 acre farm to buy this summer.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KurtNYC (Reply #55)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 12:39 AM

57. best of luck with that!

sounds great!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KurtNYC (Reply #48)

Wed Jul 18, 2012, 05:07 PM

56. 4H in SE Ks in the late 80's early 90's

Was THE most corrupt thing I have ever experienced.

The local 'fair' broke every (internal to 4H) rule I can think of.

Also possibly the weirdest. I'd never seen a curling iron used on a bull calf before....* Or someone taking shine to a boar.

* The bangs between it's horns, of course! What were you thinking?!?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Newsjock (Original post)

Tue Jul 17, 2012, 12:08 PM

3. allowing Scouting to remain focused on its mission

Which is to.... corral straight men together?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Newsjock (Original post)

Tue Jul 17, 2012, 12:10 PM

5. No women, no atheists, no gays, what a weird damned group.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CBGLuthier (Reply #5)

Tue Jul 17, 2012, 09:16 PM

43. No atheists? Is that a restriction too?

Because I can see the ACLU all over that one faster than a Ken Lay autopsy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Canuckistanian (Reply #43)

Wed Jul 18, 2012, 05:39 AM

44. Yes, no atheists

In order to become Eagle, you have to believe in a higher power/deity. I don't know if that's changed.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Canuckistanian (Reply #43)

Wed Jul 18, 2012, 12:41 PM

46. It's basically a non-denominational Christian organization

Religion was integrated pretty thoroughly with the group when I was a member.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Newsjock (Original post)

Tue Jul 17, 2012, 12:13 PM

6. The BSA is primarily a Mormon youth organization now, it has been distroyed by those bastards.

There was no possible way they would have changed their policy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to The_Casual_Observer (Reply #6)

Tue Jul 17, 2012, 01:17 PM

18. The Mormons have too much influcence in BSA

Mormons are 1.5% of the population but account for 20% of scouts and scouting units. The Mormons were planning on starting their own organization if the Dale case went agasint BSA.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to The_Casual_Observer (Reply #6)

Tue Jul 17, 2012, 02:11 PM

22. The right wing Catholics are predominant in our community.

They outnumber the Mormons, but the two groups coexist without much friction.

Whenever their leaders get together the creepiness factor is synergetic. A few years ago they all had a fine male bonding experience littering public property with yellow "Yes on 8" signs.

wikipedia

I had an equally fine time removing and recycling the signs in an environmentally responsible manner.

They'd sneak out in the night to put their signs up, and I'd take them down in the day. Most people driving by approved, and those that didn't, I guess they were too embarrassed to confront me.







Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to The_Casual_Observer (Reply #6)

Tue Jul 17, 2012, 02:34 PM

23. Not many people are aware that the Mormons use BSA as their own after-school program

 

supported by the United Way. The Methodists also use the BSA in a similar manner.

Cut off all public funds to the Boy Scouts and kick them off the receiving line for United Way.

Timely information - Thanks.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to byeya (Reply #23)

Tue Jul 17, 2012, 06:29 PM

38. Locally the United Way cut off the Boy Scouts years ago.

Also, The Orange County Council got in hot water a few years ago for spending donation money on lavish resort junkets.
I used to be support them in all sorts of ways, but as time has gone on I feel that it has become nothing but a club for bigotted crazy right wing assholes.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to The_Casual_Observer (Reply #38)

Tue Jul 17, 2012, 08:36 PM

42. Thanks for the information; it's good to know somewhere bigotry is not ignored

 

and people who want to help the community via the United Way aren't funding proto-Brownshirts.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to The_Casual_Observer (Reply #6)

Wed Jul 18, 2012, 02:01 PM

54. BSA has become a very creepy organization. In my youth, decades ago, I

was very active in BSA. I am returning my Eagle Award and similar awards to them. I doubt they care, but I want no affiliation with what BSA has become.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Newsjock (Original post)

Tue Jul 17, 2012, 12:13 PM

7. Maybe enough people will boycott it..

and not enroll their kids. They can't operate if a lot of people quit, or decide not to join. The press they are getting should help with that, hopefully.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to AsahinaKimi (Reply #7)

Tue Jul 17, 2012, 12:17 PM

8. The majority of the membership is Mormon, it's their official boy's youth program. They aren't

going to quit or boycott anything. The next biggest block of members are Texas and other southern rednecks.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to The_Casual_Observer (Reply #8)

Tue Jul 17, 2012, 12:25 PM

9. Mormons only account for

a small percentage of the US population. If there was a mass exodus from the organization, it would hit them hard in the pocket book. I would love to see that happen...and the more press they get, as a homophobic organization, the better.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to AsahinaKimi (Reply #9)

Tue Jul 17, 2012, 12:35 PM

13. Don't kid yourself, it's the majority of the BSA membership by far. The organization could go on

if everyone else quit.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to The_Casual_Observer (Reply #13)


Response to The_Casual_Observer (Reply #13)

Tue Jul 17, 2012, 06:08 PM

35. Got numbers/stats, and a citation? n/t

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink



Response to The_Casual_Observer (Reply #37)

Tue Jul 17, 2012, 06:41 PM

39. So, not a majority in any way, shape or form.

 

Uh.... O.K.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PavePusher (Reply #39)

Tue Jul 17, 2012, 06:48 PM

40. pffffffffffffffffffffffttttt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to The_Casual_Observer (Reply #40)

Tue Jul 17, 2012, 06:51 PM

41. Did I miss some sarcasm, or were you merely promoting distortions/untruths and regional bigotry?

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Newsjock (Original post)

Tue Jul 17, 2012, 12:27 PM

10. Props to the Girl Scouts for embracing diversity

at the local, council, and HQ level.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Newsjock (Original post)

Tue Jul 17, 2012, 12:27 PM

11. The Mormon church is heavily vested in the Boy Scouts, as are the Catholics.

Many persons inside Scouting believe that just like the American military, it is time for Scouting to enter the 21st century and accept Scouts and leaders of same-sex identities. Unfortunately, the Executive levels of Scouting are filled with homophobes, many of which are directly tied to the Mormon and Catholic churches and their archaic attitudes are directly attributable to religious bigotry.

Here's a link to Zack Wahls, an Eagle Scout raised by two Lesbian Moms. This young man is awesome.

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/30/11956347-eagle-scout-son-of-lesbian-moms-boy-scouts-must-end-gay-discrimination

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Newsjock (Original post)

Tue Jul 17, 2012, 12:29 PM

12. Bullshit. Predictable. Explicable. Minor gain.

Bullshit? Obvious really; what the hell can the mission of scouting have to do with the sexuality of the scouts or leaders? What difference does sexuality possibly make to the activities of scouting, or indeed any other activity outside sexual relationships?

Predictable? Well this is a group dominated by tradition and religion after all. Hope springs eternal, but open-sexuality scouting is a spring too far right now it appears.

Explicable? I'll eat my hat if liability wasn't a major issue here. Rules or not it's absurd to imagine that there are no gay scouts or scout leaders, and absurd to imagine that all of them will refrain from sexual activity during scouting events (just as, for example, rules against heterosexual intimate fraternization in large groups are routinely broken). All it needs is either one vindictive ex or even worse a parent to issue a law suit, especially if one partner was legally underage and the other not, and the "well you allowed in gay scouts/leaders!" charge becomes legal grounds for damages. Again no different from heterosexual complications in workplace dating etc, but right now the BSA at least has the legal defense of a blanket prohibition. Remember defensible and explicable are not synonyms, and I didn't get a vote anyway.

Minor gain? Hey at least there was a review, even with a kangaroo court, and at least there is publicity about the process. It's a stepping stone to build on for another future try with hopefully a more enlightened result. Atheist scouts got kicked out and told to fuck off with barely a peep when they asked for the same consideration.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Newsjock (Original post)

Tue Jul 17, 2012, 12:37 PM

14. Then I'm keeping my policy of not supporting the Boy Scouts

easy enough!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Newsjock (Original post)

Tue Jul 17, 2012, 12:44 PM

15. Don't ask, don't tell, bitches. I know a gay Eagle Scout.

I'll never tell you who it is.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to onehandle (Reply #15)

Tue Jul 17, 2012, 01:25 PM

20. There are a significant number of gay leaders in my scout district

There are several gay leaders in my district. No one cares so long as they do not wear their uniform to a gay pride event.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Gothmog (Reply #20)

Tue Jul 17, 2012, 01:32 PM

21. I'm sure that's more common than most would believe.

But this person I know is Not in an area where that would be acceptable.

Most Catholics I know are extremely liberal. I would bet that most scouts/leaders don't care about someone's sexuality.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to onehandle (Reply #21)

Tue Jul 17, 2012, 03:20 PM

25. Don't Ask, Don't Tell has worked for our district

This is not a great solution but is working. My committee Chair and I have discussed this issue with senior leadership in the council as well as with leaders in the district. As one council person told me, the rule is basically do not wear your uniform to a gay pride event and you will be fine. One of the "known" gay scouts in our district is or used to be the head of adult training who is also a Silver Beaver (this is one of the highest awards that an adult scout leader can get). I am told that there are several other senior gay adult leaders in our district.

My scout council is one of the largest in the country and the leaders know that they do want to enforce this policy. The leadership knows that if there is a big fuss about this policy, the Council could lose funding from United Way and other charities.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Newsjock (Original post)

Tue Jul 17, 2012, 12:49 PM

16. The Government needs to stop supporting this organization

The military especially provides significant support -- including use of facilities, and automatic enlistment promotions for eagle scouts.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Newsjock (Original post)

Tue Jul 17, 2012, 01:23 PM

19. There are a large number of leaders in BSA working to change this stupid policy

There are a large number of leaders who are working from within to change this policy. The Mormons have way too much influence but there are good people who making a difference.

In my district, there are several district leaders who are gays. I trained with a couple of these leaders a long time ago. No one cares so long as they do not wear their scout uniform to a gay pride event. FWIW, the scout who took the BSA to court in the Dale case did wear his uniform to a gay pride event. My troop is in the Sam Houston Area Council which is one of the larger councils in the country. The leaders in the council know that if they enforced the policy or changed the policy from a "don't ask, don't tell" policy, the council would lose United Way funding.

Believe it or not, some progress is being made. The fact that the BSA is discussing the policy and is worried about public reaction shows some small progress

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Newsjock (Original post)

Tue Jul 17, 2012, 02:55 PM

24. And meanwhile the UK Scouting Association policy:

The Scout Association has an equal opportunities policy and as it says, has no objection to the sexual orientation of any of its members. Therefore you do not have to leave Scouting if you are gay.
The Scout Association says:
No young person should receive less favourable treatment on the basis of, nor suffer disadvantage by reason of:
class; ethnic origin, nationality (or statelessness) or race; gender; marital or sexual status; mental or physical ability; political or religious belief.
All Members of the Movement should seek to practice that equality, especially in promoting
access to Scouting for young people in all parts of society.
You are not alone, many people throughout the Scout Association are gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender. It is an individual’s choice how public they wish to be about their sexual
orientation.

http://www.scoutbase.org.uk/library/hqdocs/facts/pdfs/fs185082.pdf


And re adults as Scout leaders:

The Scout Association has, for many years, had an Equal Opportunities Policy. This policy sets out the Scout Association’s view on such matters
including the acceptance and support of being gay and having an adult role in Scouting.

“There is no basis on which any volunteer offering his or her services in any capacity
can be refused an appointment in, or Membership of, the Movement on the grounds of heterosexual or homosexual orientation. Homosexuality has been perceived as incompatible with Scouting by some people (both within and outside The Scout Association) on the basis of a presumed link between homosexuality and paedophilia. This perception has been used to deny homosexual people the chance to work with young people as Scout Leaders. There is no link between homosexuality and paedophilia, and
therefore there is no justification for restricting Membership on this basis.”

The Scout Association guidelines are clear, nonnegotiable and support individual members
regardless of their sexual orientation.

http://www.scoutbase.org.uk/library/hqdocs/facts/pdfs/fs185081.pdf

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Newsjock (Original post)


Response to Newsjock (Original post)

Tue Jul 17, 2012, 03:50 PM

27. it'll change just as the U.S. military changed


I feel bad for the kids that are put through the wringer over it now or who feel outside of it all.

We all know those 'bans' really work, like in the Catholic Church. (cough cough)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Newsjock (Original post)


Response to Healing and Hope (Reply #28)

Tue Jul 17, 2012, 03:53 PM

29. Oh WELCOME to DU


oh welcome, welcome, welcome

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Healing and Hope (Reply #28)

Tue Jul 17, 2012, 04:20 PM

30. fraudulent studies, homophobic propaganda

enjoy your pizza

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Healing and Hope (Reply #28)

Tue Jul 17, 2012, 04:23 PM

31. Oh Jesus Christ... (in more ways than one)

Sweepstakes on tombstone in hours, or would minutes be fairer?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Newsjock (Original post)

Tue Jul 17, 2012, 04:34 PM

32. I only lasted a month before I quit...

...luckily before they found me out (atheist).

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Newsjock (Original post)

Tue Jul 17, 2012, 05:17 PM

33. The bigots want their exclusive club? Fine. The United Way should drop them.

And no more special accommodations at the US Park Service. And a local public University rents a nice free-standing building to them for a dollar a year. That should end. No more public funds. Let's how much they can raise with the crappy popcorn in a can.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Newsjock (Original post)


Response to Catlover123 (Reply #34)

Tue Jul 17, 2012, 06:12 PM

36. Oh fuck off, for fuck's sake.

 

Go be a shit-nozzle... elsewhere.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PavePusher (Reply #36)

Wed Jul 18, 2012, 12:35 PM

45. Go be a shit-nozzle... elsewhere.

Really? What a joke. What makes him think his cat would be a consenting adult? Maybe his cat wants to marry another cat.... of the same sex!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Newsjock (Original post)

Wed Jul 18, 2012, 12:46 PM

47. That's probably the best way to protect kids from abuse

 

just ask the Catholics.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Newsjock (Original post)

Wed Jul 18, 2012, 01:48 PM

51. unblock: we're keeping policy banning boy scouts.

mini-unblock has enough activities, he doesn't need to add a bigoted group to the list.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Newsjock (Original post)

Wed Jul 18, 2012, 01:48 PM

52. BSA should be called out for what it is, a HATE GROUP! n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread