HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » Putting the picture of th...
Introducing Discussionist: A new forum by the creators of DU

Mon May 21, 2012, 05:12 PM

Putting the picture of the Chicago cop punching a protester in context

This happened before that:



I attended one march, got first hand reports from others and monitored the media as well as twitter feeds closely. The overwhelming majority of NATO protesters did not run into police violence. In most cases the police escorted the protesters, closed of streets and negotiated with the protesters when things did not work well. In some cases they even gave the protesters water.

It was a very small number of protesters who even engaged the police, yet many folks, especially from out of town, are acting like it was a police state. Police states don't escort protesters, give them water and negotiate with them.

I am proud of the Chicago Police Department and how they conducted themselves this weekend. I was more bothered by some of the heavy handed legal maneuvers made by Rahm's administration in advance of the NATO Summit than I was with the way the CPD conducted itself.

157 replies, 17018 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 157 replies Author Time Post
Reply Putting the picture of the Chicago cop punching a protester in context (Original post)
wndycty May 2012 OP
11 Bravo May 2012 #1
elleng May 2012 #2
Egalitarian Thug May 2012 #3
nobodyspecial May 2012 #5
wndycty May 2012 #6
Wait Wut May 2012 #92
Egalitarian Thug May 2012 #127
Zalatix May 2012 #128
ProudToBeBlueInRhody May 2012 #136
Wait Wut May 2012 #141
Zalatix May 2012 #142
Wait Wut May 2012 #143
Zalatix May 2012 #144
Wait Wut May 2012 #145
Wait Wut May 2012 #140
LineLineNew Reply .
facetious_badger May 2012 #148
Egalitarian Thug May 2012 #150
LineLineLineLineNew Reply .
facetious_badger May 2012 #152
nobodyspecial May 2012 #4
wndycty May 2012 #8
nobodyspecial May 2012 #10
EFerrari May 2012 #14
wndycty May 2012 #26
EFerrari May 2012 #59
HiPointDem May 2012 #121
jehop61 May 2012 #73
midnight May 2012 #133
facetious_badger May 2012 #155
jtuck004 May 2012 #7
wndycty May 2012 #9
CreekDog May 2012 #13
wndycty May 2012 #16
EFerrari May 2012 #63
CreekDog May 2012 #93
frazzled May 2012 #11
EFerrari May 2012 #12
wndycty May 2012 #15
EFerrari May 2012 #18
wndycty May 2012 #27
Union Scribe May 2012 #32
wndycty May 2012 #33
randome May 2012 #34
Fire Walk With Me May 2012 #40
wndycty May 2012 #43
Fire Walk With Me May 2012 #48
quakerboy May 2012 #110
Union Scribe May 2012 #46
EFerrari May 2012 #55
Fire Walk With Me May 2012 #113
reACTIONary May 2012 #117
Gidney N Cloyd May 2012 #17
EFerrari May 2012 #21
wndycty May 2012 #25
Fire Walk With Me May 2012 #38
randome May 2012 #47
2pooped2pop May 2012 #74
randome May 2012 #76
EFerrari May 2012 #57
2pooped2pop May 2012 #107
randome May 2012 #31
EFerrari May 2012 #56
The_Rights_Of_Man May 2012 #19
wndycty May 2012 #23
cali May 2012 #28
SammyWinstonJack May 2012 #109
4th law of robotics May 2012 #20
coalition_unwilling May 2012 #22
wndycty May 2012 #29
Union Scribe May 2012 #30
wndycty May 2012 #35
Union Scribe May 2012 #50
WillyT May 2012 #37
wndycty May 2012 #41
DisgustipatedinCA May 2012 #49
coalition_unwilling May 2012 #125
TreasonousBastard May 2012 #24
randome May 2012 #36
Earth_First May 2012 #39
wndycty May 2012 #42
WillyT May 2012 #45
boppers May 2012 #116
Fire Walk With Me May 2012 #51
randome May 2012 #69
dana_b May 2012 #52
nobodyspecial May 2012 #62
wndycty May 2012 #67
EFerrari May 2012 #68
wndycty May 2012 #71
Fire Walk With Me May 2012 #80
EFerrari May 2012 #108
EFerrari May 2012 #103
Fire Walk With Me May 2012 #114
dana_b May 2012 #119
Fire Walk With Me May 2012 #112
Logical May 2012 #44
frazzled May 2012 #53
nobodyspecial May 2012 #60
Mc Mike May 2012 #135
Logical May 2012 #54
wndycty May 2012 #64
Logical May 2012 #70
wndycty May 2012 #72
Logical May 2012 #77
Fire Walk With Me May 2012 #58
Fire Walk With Me May 2012 #61
randome May 2012 #65
nobodyspecial May 2012 #66
wndycty May 2012 #75
Logical May 2012 #78
nobodyspecial May 2012 #83
Fire Walk With Me May 2012 #79
secondvariety May 2012 #85
coalition_unwilling May 2012 #126
JH19059 May 2012 #81
fascisthunter May 2012 #82
nobodyspecial May 2012 #84
wndycty May 2012 #86
Logical May 2012 #89
randome May 2012 #97
Logical May 2012 #100
nobodyspecial May 2012 #91
Logical May 2012 #94
nobodyspecial May 2012 #95
Logical May 2012 #99
nobodyspecial May 2012 #101
Logical May 2012 #102
nobodyspecial May 2012 #104
randome May 2012 #105
fascisthunter May 2012 #90
Mc Mike May 2012 #132
Fire Walk With Me May 2012 #87
randome May 2012 #88
Zalatix May 2012 #129
RobertEarl May 2012 #96
Fire Walk With Me May 2012 #98
Fla_Democrat May 2012 #118
Earth_First May 2012 #106
zappaman May 2012 #111
Fire Walk With Me May 2012 #115
SmileyRose May 2012 #120
dana_b May 2012 #124
Bluenorthwest May 2012 #139
girl gone mad May 2012 #122
SpartanDem May 2012 #123
99Forever May 2012 #130
uponit7771 May 2012 #131
midnight May 2012 #134
ieoeja May 2012 #137
Bluenorthwest May 2012 #138
just1voice May 2012 #146
facetious_badger May 2012 #149
uppityperson May 2012 #151
facetious_badger May 2012 #153
uppityperson May 2012 #154
facetious_badger May 2012 #156
uppityperson May 2012 #157
facetious_badger May 2012 #147

Response to wndycty (Original post)

Mon May 21, 2012, 05:15 PM

1. Sorry, that doesn't fit the preferred narrative here.

Someone (and you can probably guess who) will be along directly to show you the error of your ways while shouting, "OFF THE PIGS!"

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Original post)

Mon May 21, 2012, 05:16 PM

2. Thanks for this perspective, wndy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Original post)

Mon May 21, 2012, 05:17 PM

3. How convenient. Leaving off the first shot showing this asshole

 

wading into the crowd with his club before this response to his actions changes the context. How very typically Chicagoan of you.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Egalitarian Thug (Reply #3)

Mon May 21, 2012, 05:18 PM

5. Hey, feel free to add that

You do have proof that that is exactly what happened. Right?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Egalitarian Thug (Reply #3)

Mon May 21, 2012, 05:20 PM

6. The police didn't wade into shit. The march was over, there was an agreement between organizers. .

. . .and the police. The organizers had pleaded with people to leave. There were 2,000-3,000 people in the march, by the time the confrontation started there were less than 100 people. You figure it out. The folks who encountered violence were there for violence.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Egalitarian Thug (Reply #3)

Mon May 21, 2012, 07:58 PM

92. If you had a point to make...

...you lost it with "typically Chicagoan". WTF is that supposed to mean? Nothing like stereotyping an entire fucking city to make your point.


Then again, I see you're from "Sin City", NV. I guess that explains it, huh?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Wait Wut (Reply #92)

Tue May 22, 2012, 07:47 AM

127. The city stereotypes itself. I lived there many years and nothing has changed at all. n/t

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Egalitarian Thug (Reply #127)

Tue May 22, 2012, 07:58 AM

128. Listen to these guys for once. That whole 1968 thing was just a left wing myth.

 

And history never repeats itself.

Quit with the 'Police brutality' thing - you'll just piss Rahm Emmanuel off.



(Just kidding, lol. Well said, Egalitarian Thug)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Reply #128)

Tue May 22, 2012, 11:19 AM

136. Chicago in 1968 was a set up by agent provocateurs of the right

Is that too "left wing" for you to handle? Because it just flies a little too far past blaming just the cops and Daley?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Reply #128)

Tue May 22, 2012, 12:17 PM

141. That was over 40 years ago.

With your reasoning, we should bomb Russia just on principle. Wars should never end because you never know when one of those other countries will "repeat history". They never change, you know.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Wait Wut (Reply #141)

Tue May 22, 2012, 12:48 PM

142. Well said. Those nutters who say history repeats itself need to adjust their tinfoil hats!

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Zalatix (Reply #142)

Tue May 22, 2012, 12:56 PM

143. Waste of tinfoil

They should hide under their beds quivering in a state of constant paranoia, because nothing ever changes.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink



Response to Zalatix (Reply #144)

Tue May 22, 2012, 01:06 PM

145. Oops. Can't watch vids at work...

...I could tell what it was by the link, though. Would you like me to search for links to show you how many times a cop has saved a life, prevented a crime, acted with compassion? I could actually provide 3 examples where I was more than a little relieved to have a cop nearby, but I'm not one to share too many personal experiences with strangers.

If you'd like those links, it will have to wait until later this evening. Oh, and I promise to include links on stories from 1968, as well, since you seem to be quite the history buff. I bet I could even find a few good cop stories about Chicago cops. Unless that would ruin your day.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Egalitarian Thug (Reply #127)

Tue May 22, 2012, 12:12 PM

140. I was born and raised there.

Lived there for 40 years, as a matter of fact. Guess what, I'll take that label of "typical Chicagoan" and wear it proudly.

Glad you found Vegas. I hear there's no corruption there, at all. One more thing, what other groups of people, cities, countries, etc. do you feel comfortable stereotyping?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Egalitarian Thug (Reply #3)

Wed May 23, 2012, 02:23 PM

148. .

It is his job to maintain order, but the police never catch a break. Either he's slandered for going into the crowd with a baton (with no real physical protection) like he is supposed to, or he stays out and is blamed for 'standing by' when an incident happens. It's easy to judge his actions now from the safety of your home, but consider how much more volatile and dangerous a situation can be when you're in the thick of it as he was.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to facetious_badger (Reply #148)

Wed May 23, 2012, 04:16 PM

150. It is a difficult and often dangerous job, that's what they sign up for.

 

What is different within departments that work and those that don't is the internal culture. Does the department serve the public or does it control the public? Errors will always be made, that's the nature of the work, does the department encourage its officers to err on the side of permissiveness or authority? CPD has always been a model of a dysfunctional police department. Corrupt enforcers for whoever pays.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Egalitarian Thug (Reply #150)

Thu May 24, 2012, 02:40 AM

152. .

They don't really have a choice in the matter right now. If they make one stumble then the department and the city get slapped with lawsuits. The rioters are not the ones who get in trouble is there is violence and destruction, it's the city. Just like trampling deaths at concerts aren't blamed on the crowd, they're blamed on the owner of the facility and the security companies. Not only is litigation likely, but the officers can be demoted, acquire career damaging reprimands, or outright fired.

I have several friends in all sorts of law enforcement, and helped give me perspective on the issue. They don't want to wade into hostile crowds, they don't want to go on a high speed pursuit, they don't want walk up to a pulled over vehicle with tinted windows, etc. Those aren't enjoyable experiences, and put them in a great deal of danger.

Then when something happens the media pours over footage that is edited to reflect negatively on the police officers involved. The end clip of several officers using what, to the audience safe in their home, appears to be excessive force. You rarely see the person who fled as they careen through the streets, running red lights, endangering pedestrians, causing other vehicles to crash, damaging property, etc. I try to view these incidents from the perspective of how would I feel if my family were out on that day. Even if they weren't hurt they would still have been put in danger. All because someone refused to act like a responsible adult and not driven off.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Original post)

Mon May 21, 2012, 05:17 PM

4. Prepare for incoming

Apparently the people who live and work here don't know anything, all cops are evil, and violence is not only acceptable, but often necessary. And, if you hit an evil cop first, he should do nothing. Oh, and Rahm and Obama are to blame.

I really need to step away from here, but it's like a festering scab these past few days.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to nobodyspecial (Reply #4)

Mon May 21, 2012, 05:22 PM

8. You know a cop got stabbed by a protester on Saturday, but of course the defenders will defend that

Oy vey. There is a reason why I don't come here much anymore.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Reply #8)

Mon May 21, 2012, 05:29 PM

10. Oh, they don't have to defend it

Just pick one:
1) The cop was lying and it didn't really happen, just an excuse to start cracking skulls.
2) It was the work of a government infiltrator trying to make the movement look bad.
3) Any bad act was not committed by any of us so it doesn't matter.

I haven't been around much either and really just need to log out. These would not have be the prevailing voices just a few years ago. I think most of the sane people have checked out.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Reply #8)

Mon May 21, 2012, 05:40 PM

14. Who here is going to defend a cop getting stabbed? What a ridiculous projection that is. n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to EFerrari (Reply #14)

Mon May 21, 2012, 05:54 PM

26. I thought you might sense you were defending the other acts of lawlessness . . .

. . .of the protesters.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Reply #26)

Mon May 21, 2012, 06:52 PM

59. Boy, how disgusting is that. n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Reply #26)

Mon May 21, 2012, 11:20 PM

121. she was? where was that?

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Reply #8)

Mon May 21, 2012, 07:03 PM

73. I'm so glad

that someone else is seeing this for what it was. Some police may have over reacted, but some protesters were looking for a fight to "get the pigs". Thanks for seeing both sides. My post in a similar vein got lots of very negative feedback earlier today.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Reply #8)

Tue May 22, 2012, 10:41 AM

133. Did not hear that. Do you have a link?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to nobodyspecial (Reply #4)

Thu May 24, 2012, 09:36 AM

155. of course

And yet when they get their wish and the police back off then at the first stubbed toe they'll be howling in outrage at those evil cops who weren't there to protect them from themselves.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Original post)

Mon May 21, 2012, 05:21 PM

7. Not in the pic are corporate employees and owners in their offices high above all this. Laughing,

laughing...

Mr. Charlie appreciates you people staying busy with this while he is screwing the folks you left at home. And you.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to jtuck004 (Reply #7)

Mon May 21, 2012, 05:22 PM

9. Huh, what?

Oh my. . .

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Reply #9)

Mon May 21, 2012, 05:38 PM

13. so this photo means it's okay for that other cop to punch the protestor?

what a morally bankrupt statement.

and you don't think much of the police if you think that's all they know how to do given that the protest probably had some knuckleheads, but not all.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CreekDog (Reply #13)

Mon May 21, 2012, 05:43 PM

16. The cops were defending themselves. Did you notice the cop who had the wood broken over his head. .

. . .was not even wearing a helmet and the others were. They targeted this guy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Reply #16)

Mon May 21, 2012, 06:54 PM

63. That cop was being pushed into the crowd by his colleagues.

Looks like he was "targeted" by his own.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Reply #16)

Mon May 21, 2012, 07:59 PM

93. well you're defending what another cop did by what a picture of a different cop shows

so if you hit me with a piece of wood, EFerrari could punch another poster because you hit me.

sometimes i can't believe the crap i'm expected to take seriously.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Original post)

Mon May 21, 2012, 05:29 PM

11. I agree with you, wndy

I watched as the cops themselves were being punched by that (very) small bunch of front-line protesters who stayed after the end (granted, the cops were well protected, but the aggression and provocation were very real); as they had bottles, trash containers, and at one point a metal barricade thrown at them. This went on for nearly an hour and a half, in the broiling heat, and they essentially stood still and kept their cool. No tear gas or pepper spray was used, nor the feared sound machine. I was fascinated by their well-practiced tactical maneuvering as they inched the crowd toward the west. To me, the response was all in all very measured. And I was impressed that Supt. McCarthy was out on the front lines with them the whole time. Cops don't go rogue when their boss is out there directing the action in person and watching them.

I feel many of these still images are out of context, and that (for once--because I have no love for the Chicago police in general) the CPD is to be commended. I guess we have to commend McCarthy for this new discipline in the force. This was no 68.

In Montreal yesterday, 300 student protesters were arrested and 20 were injured. That's far more than the 45 arrested and 4 injured here yesterday. I know people are fixated on these images (some real, some fake) they are seeing ("citizen journalists" with cameras were among the most prevalent group in the front line of the conflict yesterday, waiting for a good shot to take viral), but it doesn't match the reality. The fact is, the people who came to protest legitimately--the nurses, the veterans, most of the Occupy groups--did so with dignity and good faith. A very few who were intent on creating a scene did it intentionally and are trying to profit from it. I choose to ignore their unrepresentative actions.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Original post)

Mon May 21, 2012, 05:37 PM

12. Where would we be without the police escorting us around our own cities, negotiating our rights

pulling us out of our cars at gunpoint or confiscating our beer making equipment? Pre-emptive raids rock and keep us safe.

Oh, and in case you didn't notice, the pix you posted show a police officer being pushed into the crowd by the police. Maybe email these to CPD for after action lessons learned.



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to EFerrari (Reply #12)

Mon May 21, 2012, 05:41 PM

15. DO you know why the folks were escorted?

The protesters often marched down streets that were not blocked off, so the escorts protected them from traffic. I saw the shit first hand. There was an unexpected march on Saturday afternoon down Michigan Ave, the street WAS NOT BLOCKED OFF, once the CPD learned of the march they BLOCKED OFF THE STREET and escorted the protesters. Tell me what is so fucking sinister about protecting protesters from getting hit by cars?

An answer is appreciated.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Reply #15)

Mon May 21, 2012, 05:45 PM

18. Because protesters are too stupid not to play in traffic?

FYI, I watched a livestreamer from this area in Chicago all afternoon yesterday. He was following an impromptu march and, by God, not one of those protesters stepped out in front of traffic.

How far does one bend over without breaking something to justify the Powell Doctrine as applied by the Chicago (we promise we won't torture no more) PD?

Sorry, no sale.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to EFerrari (Reply #18)

Mon May 21, 2012, 05:57 PM

27. You watched a live stream while I was in the middle of it. . .sure I will take your fucking word. .

. . .when folks marched in streets that are not blocked off the cops, instead of arresting them, escorted them. I was there. I fucking live in here, I was in the middle of it. My eyes are pretty good and probably did a better job of letting me see what was going on in comparison to your live stream. Don't you think?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Reply #27)

Mon May 21, 2012, 06:07 PM

32. Even more impressive.

Your being there actually makes false things other people saw! Because you were there, so if YOU didn't see it, it must not have happened.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Union Scribe (Reply #32)

Mon May 21, 2012, 06:14 PM

33. SO you think the quality of seeing something on a live stream is much more accurate. . .

. . .than seeing something in person?

Think about it. When you watch on a live stream you see what the camera sees, you have no control over the camera. When you see things first hand you can see a lot more, like seeing streets that are not blocked off being blocked off by the police so the march can continue.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Reply #33)

Mon May 21, 2012, 06:15 PM

34. You are absolutely right!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Reply #33)

Mon May 21, 2012, 06:24 PM

40. Watching on several livestreams and NOT seeing protesters attacking cops speaks many truths.

 

My friends were there, some livestreaming, and I know their integrity and courage. I did NOT see protesters attacking cops; I saw hundreds of cops show up to a peaceful, emotional gathering of Veterans, and threaten the use of chemical and less-lethal weaponry (Scott Olsen was there, that must have been wonderful for him to hear).

People want to ignore the loss of the Bill of Rights. I won't allow that to happen.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fire Walk With Me (Reply #40)

Mon May 21, 2012, 06:28 PM

43. Again I keep hearing that second hand and live streams trump what I saw with my own eyes. . .

. . .this is rich.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Reply #43)

Mon May 21, 2012, 06:35 PM

48. You saw that, and I did not. I saw this, and you did not.

 

Truth is a tricky thing.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Reply #43)

Mon May 21, 2012, 09:18 PM

110. Actually, I think it does

In a court case with conflicting versions of an event, who do you believe, a witness or security camera footage of the event?

When there are conflicting calls between reff's at a sports game, what do they go to? A bystander or the video tape?

You were in one location. Video cameras were scattered throughout the events. They surely caught far more information than you personally could.

And Video can be reviewed, with no change between one viewing and the next. It remains true, as originally created, unless it is purposefully altered, whereas human memory has been scientifically proven to be capricious, very selective and highly colored by our own perceptions and inclinations..

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Reply #33)

Mon May 21, 2012, 06:33 PM

46. It is equal.

If it is seen happening, it happened. It doesn't matter if it was on a live stream or not, or if you didn't see it being there.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Reply #27)

Mon May 21, 2012, 06:48 PM

55. No, I don't. Because that livestream didn't try to justify cr@P to me

as you are trying to do here. But fucking excuse me if I don't wet myself because police decided to "escort" peaceful protesters instead of arresting them.

Seriously, that's just SAD.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to EFerrari (Reply #55)

Mon May 21, 2012, 10:13 PM

113. You said what I was thinking!

 

(high-five)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Reply #27)

Mon May 21, 2012, 10:45 PM

117. +1 A lot of people are just not going to give up there good vs. evil pre-judice. (nt)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Original post)

Mon May 21, 2012, 05:44 PM

17. K&R for a much needed sensible post.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Gidney N Cloyd (Reply #17)

Mon May 21, 2012, 05:47 PM

21. How much did Chicago taxpayers pay for these "escorts", do you think,?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to EFerrari (Reply #21)

Mon May 21, 2012, 05:52 PM

25. The crowd that you see on the other side of the cops is the crowd that was picking fights. . .

. . .with them.

The 2,900 other protesters who had a fucking message, in this case was to stop the war in Afghanistan, had already left. At one point these guys threw a bike rack at the cops.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Reply #25)

Mon May 21, 2012, 06:21 PM

38. No. I watched livestreams and cops demanded an entirely peaceful gathering disperse or face arrest.

 

Those who stood their righteous 1st Amendment ground, peacefully, were brutalized and nearly trampled by riot cops, some of whom can clearly be seen smiling in pictures.

They did this to Occupy LA on March 17th as well. I was there. Cops attack peaceful gatherings and the news says it was the protesters. Yes, there may be some who took shots at cops (and who the hell is to say those weren't cops!!! There is plenty of proof of undercovers creating reasons for riot cops to attack, see my DU post "goldmine angents provocateur"). BUT. This was blatant abrogation of the 1st Amendment. Only. Cops were monstrous, as usual, and people are apologizing for them?

Something I see on DU far too often lately distresses me. People will nitpick details in order to completely avoid naming the actual issue (in this case, police brutality against peaceful protesters and the loss of the Bill of Rights).

The elephant in the room demands to be named, and addressed.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fire Walk With Me (Reply #38)

Mon May 21, 2012, 06:34 PM

47. "...who the hell is to say those weren't cops?"

You're willing to take a conspiracy theory THAT far? I suppose wndycty is a planted agent, as well.

First-hand report of the punches thrown DOES trump livestream and photos taken AFTER a scuffle.

Unless that first-hand report comes from an unreliable source. But we have no reason to think that at this point, do we?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to randome (Reply #47)

Mon May 21, 2012, 07:05 PM

74. the police did admit it had infiltrated the black bloc

this was in a newspaer we picked on the way home. I think it was the Indy star but not sure. Historically police have always infiltrated protest groups.

Now was it the infiltrators who revved up the shit or the anarchist? That is the question. I do believe the huge show of force was waiting at that end because they had info that shit would happen. It is certainly not unlike them to do shit to give police reason to bust heads. Did that happen here? I don't know.

I also do believe that the anarchist are not satisfied with simple permitted marches and feel that it is ineffective.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 2pooped2pop (Reply #74)

Mon May 21, 2012, 07:08 PM

76. I think that's all that any of us are saying.

No one knows for sure what everyone was thinking. Even in the livestream, you can't see the front of the protesters so it's impossible to say who started what.

wndycty's eyewitness account means something, though.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Reply #25)

Mon May 21, 2012, 06:50 PM

57. Keep digging. There must be some gold down there somewhere. n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to EFerrari (Reply #57)

Mon May 21, 2012, 08:23 PM

107. surely u mean "with all this shit, there must be a pony"

lol. a book I read as a teen. There must be a pony. I dont remember much else other than a story told in the book of a room filled with shit and the optimistic response was happily shoveling the shit because "surely with all this shit, there must be a pony"

ahhh. Thanks for the memory.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to EFerrari (Reply #21)

Mon May 21, 2012, 06:04 PM

31. Oh, so money is of primary importance to you now?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to randome (Reply #31)

Mon May 21, 2012, 06:49 PM

56. Put that strawman down before he hurts you. n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Original post)

Mon May 21, 2012, 05:45 PM

19. NATO Protests - Chicago

I'll say it … I'm embarrassed.........I'm disappointed. I came to Chicago expecting an opportunity to protest NATO’s presence and intervention in countries far removed from the “security” of those nations belonging to the NATO coalition. Instead, I saw obvious attempts to provoke the police, outright misrepresentation of the facts - by “reporters” and my "fellow" marchers (who "claimed" to be attacked by the police - but actually sustained injuries from objects thrown by the raucous and unprovoked crowd).

There are serious issues to be discussed and resolved - yet in Chicago, I saw a group of my fellow "activists" presenting little more than overly dramatic hyperbole-laced rhetoric. Few were even able to describe the reason for attending let alone engage in any real discussion of the issues in an intelligent manner.

I'm disappointed and a bit ashamed of those few who attended the marches and rallies. There was nowhere near the 15,000 ~ 40,000 people we were led to expect. Who decided that to be effective in presenting our “message” we HAD to be confrontational…we HAD to call the police names…we HAD to throw liquids and debris to get attention….

I still believe that the very existence of NATO and America’s deep involvement in that organization is wrong for many reasons. But my Chicago experience has awakened me to another threat….one that may even transcend the evil of NATO…the treat of ignorance, anarchy and disrespect.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to The_Rights_Of_Man (Reply #19)

Mon May 21, 2012, 05:49 PM

23. Exactly, here from Chicagoist that speaks volumes to me:

-snip-

One gangbanger stood in front of the strip mall across the street from the police station and showed his solidarity with the neighbors who, on any other day, would just as soon hang him from a street lamp by his ankles. "I agree with these guys: fuck the police," the banger said, "But where are these motherfuckers every other day of the year?"

'If I had to choose between the police and these motherfuckers (protesters), I'm riding with the police,' he added."

-snip-
http://chicagoist.com/2012/05/16/scuffle_breaks_out_during_tense_chi.php#photo-1

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to The_Rights_Of_Man (Reply #19)

Mon May 21, 2012, 06:00 PM

28. hmmm. interesting little story. interesting first post.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to The_Rights_Of_Man (Reply #19)

Mon May 21, 2012, 08:28 PM

109. Yeah sure right. Cool story, though.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Original post)

Mon May 21, 2012, 05:45 PM

20. So this asshole cop took it upon himself to smash this poor blind man's guide-stick karate style

 

What a fascist!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Original post)

Mon May 21, 2012, 05:47 PM

22. You must have missed all the video footage of pigs swinging batons

 

at the protesters with no provoation visible in the video, such that even Corporate News Network's Don Lemon expressed his dismay and disgust at what the CPD were doing, noting that the police violence was UNPROVOKED!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to coalition_unwilling (Reply #22)

Mon May 21, 2012, 06:00 PM

29. Consider I witnessed one of the marches first hand. . .

. . .I don't need any footage. Anyone that encountered violence wanted to encounter violence.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Reply #29)

Mon May 21, 2012, 06:03 PM

30. So by being there you...gained the power of telepathy.

Damn. Impressive. So those are your photos in the OP?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Union Scribe (Reply #30)

Mon May 21, 2012, 06:17 PM

35. Never said they were. . .

. . .they are from the Chicago Tribune, the some publication that published the photo of the cop throwing the punch. If that picture is valid their other pictures are. I was however present for a demonstration on Saturday afternoon at Michigan and Wacker and saw with my own eyes, not someone else's webcam, cops escorting the protesters and blocking off street for them.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Reply #35)

Mon May 21, 2012, 06:37 PM

50. It seems to be your claim

that things captured on video didn't happen because you didn't see them in person. It's really bizarre, like verging on solipsism. Other people have eyes, too.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Reply #29)

Mon May 21, 2012, 06:21 PM

37. All Bow... To The All Knowing, All Seeing, wndycty !!!

Why trust your own eyes.




Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WillyT (Reply #37)

Mon May 21, 2012, 06:24 PM

41. LOL you are funny. . .even many protesters are complaining about the other protesters. . .

. . .not the cops.

I could have written half the Chicago is a police state threads last week in advance of the the summit.

You guys have a narrative that is not based in reality.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Reply #29)

Mon May 21, 2012, 06:35 PM

49. You're incredulous that you were there and people are still questioning your conclusions

But you're also making blanket statements about things you couldn't possibly have seen, unless you have the ability to be everywhere at all times. You can't make the claim "Anyone that encountered violence wanted to encounter violence" based on you seeing one thing from one location.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Reply #29)

Tue May 22, 2012, 02:46 AM

125. That's not what I and countless others witnessed, nor does it match

 

John Lemon's assessment on CNN.

Against that we have your first-person experience and analysis.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Original post)

Mon May 21, 2012, 05:50 PM

24. I wasn't there, so I don't know, but...

I'm highly inclined to agree with you.

Having been to enough protests where the cops were in good humor and professional enough to head off possible violence, I cringe when I hear the kneejerk police state allegations and accusations of knocking heads.

Every protest has a small group of instigators, intransigents, or just plain assholes, and the cops are usually pretty good at isolating them, but not always, and then the cops get the blame for taking care of business.

Back in the Viet Nam days, I remember some assholes bringing baseball bats and the cops weren't as well trained or protected. Their reputations are still suffering from the results of that.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Original post)

Mon May 21, 2012, 06:19 PM

36. I think you just killed all the other threads on this!

Impressive.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Original post)

Mon May 21, 2012, 06:22 PM

39. ...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Earth_First (Reply #39)

Mon May 21, 2012, 06:26 PM

42. Can you show me the pics of him before he got cracked over the head.

Show me pics of him 5 minutes before he got cracked in the head.

Show me pics of him 4 minutes before he got cracked in the head.

Show me pics of him 3 minutes before he got cracked in the head.

Show me pics of him 2 minutes before he got cracked in the head.

Show me pics of him 1 minute before he got cracked in the head.

Show me pics of him :30 seconds before he got cracked in the head.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Reply #42)

Mon May 21, 2012, 06:31 PM

45. Wow... You Seem To Have Some Serious Authority Issues...

That was Scott Olsen after being shot in the head with a teargas canister by Oakland PD last year.

I guess I'm not surprised... that you are not familiar with it...

Are you gonna be ok honey...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WillyT (Reply #45)

Mon May 21, 2012, 10:44 PM

116. So, different time, different place, different context.

In other words, not exactly relevant.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Reply #42)

Mon May 21, 2012, 06:38 PM

51. I am outraged by your inferrence that he somehow deserved to nearly be killed

 

and to end up with brain damage when you have not even checked to see if you are correct or incorrect.

HERE. Look at the first two videos, and search more as you wish. This may not capture it, but there are video out there which do. Search for raw.

http://occupyobservations.blogspot.com/2012/01/oakland-officials-caught-in-lies-about.html

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fire Walk With Me (Reply #51)

Mon May 21, 2012, 06:57 PM

69. This thread had to do with Chicago, not Scott Olsen.

No one here is saying he 'deserved' to be injured. Except you.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Reply #42)

Mon May 21, 2012, 06:41 PM

52. better than that

a video of him just standing there MINDING HIS OWN BUSINESS!!

&feature=player_embedded

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to dana_b (Reply #52)

Mon May 21, 2012, 06:54 PM

62. This thread was very specific to what happened in Chicago

The OP lives here and participated Saturday and was providing his perspective.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to nobodyspecial (Reply #62)

Mon May 21, 2012, 06:55 PM

67. According to DUers since my perspective doesn't fit their narrative its irrelevant

NM

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to nobodyspecial (Reply #62)

Mon May 21, 2012, 06:56 PM

68. LOL! I want to hear the OP's "perspective" on the $600,000. settlement

of the Chicago Police torture case handed down last week. It's simply not possible that these public servants, these older Boy Scouts could have been found guilty of torturing detainees in their kid gloved care.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to EFerrari (Reply #68)


Response to wndycty (Reply #71)

Mon May 21, 2012, 07:24 PM

80. It would be nice if you could display even the remotest acceptance that cops can and will be

 

monsters. Because that is very clearly proven time and time again. Goes to motive.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fire Walk With Me (Reply #80)

Mon May 21, 2012, 08:25 PM

108. I bring up a fact about the CPigD and am called ignorant and stupid.

Without even buying me dinner first.

lmao

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Reply #71)

Mon May 21, 2012, 08:18 PM

103. The Password is, Chicago Police Department.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to nobodyspecial (Reply #62)

Mon May 21, 2012, 10:18 PM

114. The OP created a sub-thread through asking to be shown what Scott Olsen was doing

 

for several minutes prior to being shot nearly point-blank with a "less-lethal" round, nearly killing him, leaving him with brain damage. Inferring in a terrible manner that he had it coming.

We have provided proof that Scott was merely standing there, and have yet to see an astonishingly large apology from the OP. We are on-topic in this sub-thread directly created by the OP.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to nobodyspecial (Reply #62)

Mon May 21, 2012, 11:10 PM

119. yes, and I was just answering the question that

S/HE asked about the man in that picture - who happens to be Scott Olsen.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to dana_b (Reply #52)

Mon May 21, 2012, 10:12 PM

112. There it is! Thank you! Obviously, he deserved anything the cops wanted to do to him!

 

(((facepalms)))

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Original post)

Mon May 21, 2012, 06:28 PM

44. Show me your stats on police injury's vs. protester injury's. n-t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Original post)

Mon May 21, 2012, 06:41 PM

53. Here's the entire sequence of events in that skirmish

(with captions). Police officer's helmet is removed by protesters; he's beaten on the head with a stick, with enough force to break it; he pushes back with club to prevent another protester; another cop finally raises his fist to prevent the officer from being punched. That last picture has been taken out of context.

Anatomy of a Clash

http://galleries.apps.chicagotribune.com/chi-120520-nato-sequence-police-punches-pictures/#9

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to frazzled (Reply #53)

Mon May 21, 2012, 06:52 PM

60. I was just going to post this

I guess the cops should have just allowed themselves to be beaten with sticks.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to nobodyspecial (Reply #60)

Tue May 22, 2012, 11:07 AM

135. Fire posted a vid from ABC 7, Chi. Twice.

Says ~ min 12 sec 45 (14 min vid) that the bb s were travelling west along with dispersing protestors, and were forced back east by the police. They were already blocked to the south, and east. That 'kettling' makes a dispersal order unhelpful.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=710141

Wnd's eyewitness accounts are only good for the part of the field s\he was in. The photo sequence is incomplete, because it starts with the white shirted officer's helmet already off, which doesn't necessarily show an unprovoked attack on that officer. Doesn't show either side before the start of the altercation. When I see an officer with an old-style night stick, instead of the Okinawa-style grain grinder model, I think that officer is harking back to the 'good old days' of police-community relations. My opinion may be wrong, but that officer's bosses created the whole situation with the kettling.

There was no legit reason people couldn't march south in the first place. In Pgh.'s G-20 (the 9-25-09 march), the cops arbitrarily enforced bridge and street closures which clearly contradicted my State Rep.'s official route info, and the official established 'free speech' zone directly E-NE of the Convention center. Nobody was allowed to even approach the area. The cops were Keystone to a Chinese Fire drill degree. The field commanders made up the rules on the fly, to make a moving and constantly enveloping kettle around the legally permitted marchers, with overwhelming manpower on all sides, as they shunted the protest across the river from the G-20 site, tastefully out of the range of the WB and IMF big-shots.

If I saw a protestor launch an unprovoked attack on a cop, I'd do my best to restrain them, before the cops responded to the attack by ravaging the rest of the innocent protestors. All cops aren't bad, but they're bad in large groups, listening to their pin-head bosses. I don't want any physical harm to come to women or men who are on the job. But there isn't a large casualty list on the law enforcement side, and there is one on the protestors' side.

Either cops start the violence, or u.c. cops start the violence, or some agro protestor whose brain is in pawn to the system (so s\he is working for that cop system) starts the violence. So now it's obviously time for all DU hands to call each other cops, and pick which of the 3 flavors of cop they want to back, against other DU people. Sweet mother of mercy, we could screw up a 2 car funeral.



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Original post)

Mon May 21, 2012, 06:42 PM

54. Wow, either you are a ex-cop, current cop or married to a cop. No other explanition. n-t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Logical (Reply #54)

Mon May 21, 2012, 06:54 PM

64. No I am just someone who believes the social justice activists do not need assholes. . .

. . .like the ones provoking the cops this weekend hurting their real movement.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Reply #64)

Mon May 21, 2012, 06:59 PM

70. Read this post and comment. I wrote it based on your naive/gullible post......

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Logical (Reply #70)

Mon May 21, 2012, 07:02 PM

72. Cute? I am naive and gullible. I do not choose to read any bullshit thread that you start. . .

. . .enjoy talking shit about folks like me, I won't take the bait.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Reply #72)

Mon May 21, 2012, 07:10 PM

77. So telling you you are wrong and gullible is "Talking Shit"? LOL, classic.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Original post)

Mon May 21, 2012, 06:51 PM

58. Why don't you go over to my "Show me what a police state looks like!" thread

 

and explain away all of the photographed and video'd instances of bloodied journalists (didn't include the pic of a Getty photographer being arrested), protesters, protesters being rammed by police vans and horses from behind, brutally forced out of having a peaceful gathering (remember the Bill of Rights?), etc.

You may be attempting to use one instance to negate several dozen+, and I would be interested in knowing that this is not the case. Plus, you haven't proven that any and all who provoked the cops were not cops to begin with. You may have missed on your Twitter feed that cops were caught dressing as black bloc. Just as they did in Montebello Canada, where they were foced to admit it and apologize.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Original post)

Mon May 21, 2012, 06:53 PM

61. Also, people given guns are supposed to be trained to not over-react in even the worst situations

 

under the worst provocation.

A cop punching anyone should be a termination-level offense. Period. They are not fit to carry a badge, much less a lethal weapon.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fire Walk With Me (Reply #61)

Mon May 21, 2012, 06:55 PM

65. So they should just stand still and be a punching bag for someone?

That doesn't sound right.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fire Walk With Me (Reply #61)

Mon May 21, 2012, 06:55 PM

66. Please take a look at the exact series of events

http://galleries.apps.chicagotribune.com/chi-120520-nato-sequence-police-punches-pictures/#9

I guess the cop should have just let his fellow officer be hit on the head with another large stick. Is that what you are saying?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to nobodyspecial (Reply #66)

Mon May 21, 2012, 07:07 PM

75. Don't waste your time many on DU have narrative they want to believe and won't let the facts...

. . . get in the way.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Reply #75)

Mon May 21, 2012, 07:11 PM

78. What "facts" have you posted except 5 out of context photos??

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Logical (Reply #78)

Mon May 21, 2012, 07:32 PM

83. Not out of context. Here is an interview with the photographer who took the shots

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to nobodyspecial (Reply #66)

Mon May 21, 2012, 07:20 PM

79. If you going to justify a cop punching a citizen for any reason whatsoever

 

especially when he was not the target, then you have nothing further to say which will engage me. Can't keep your cool, can't enforce the rules. And when one of these savages finally pulls a gun and kills one of us, will that be somehow justifiable?

That is rhetorical.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to nobodyspecial (Reply #66)

Mon May 21, 2012, 07:36 PM

85. I don't know-

looks like the cops were kicking ass and taking names before the officer lost his helmet. If a group of heavily armed men are charging with clubs, it's going to be either fight or flight.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to secondvariety (Reply #85)

Tue May 22, 2012, 03:48 AM

126. Excellent point. Defenders of the Chicago PD's excessive force and brutality

 

make it seem like the very first event in the chain is the pig losing his helmet. But that event (pig losing helmet) itself comes in medias res, and as far as I can tell, you and I are the only ones to bother mentioning that salient fact.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Original post)

Mon May 21, 2012, 07:27 PM

81. Here's a link

Here's a link to an interview with the photographer who took the pictures of the officer punching the protester.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/videogallery/70064061/Community/Anatomy-of-an-iconic-photograph

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Original post)

Mon May 21, 2012, 07:29 PM

82. so are you saying they deserved to be punched?

weird

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink



Response to nobodyspecial (Reply #84)

Mon May 21, 2012, 07:40 PM

86. It is a waste of time with these folks who have a narrative and are ignoring the facts. . .

. . .I have stopped responding to them because they are not worth it. They are like a bunch of spoiled brats with their hands over their ears screaming la la la la la la la la. LOL

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Reply #86)

Mon May 21, 2012, 07:50 PM

89. LOL....you stopped responding because you are getting the shit kicked out of you. I don't blame....

you. But I bet you think twice about posting BS about being proud of the Chicago police down the road.

Do more research next time. It will add weight to your posts.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Logical (Reply #89)

Mon May 21, 2012, 08:06 PM

97. You were the one who ran away and started 2 more threads on this.

You were hoping to get responses more to your liking.

Some of us don't really care about being right or wrong. We care about seeing things as they truly are.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to randome (Reply #97)

Mon May 21, 2012, 08:08 PM

100. Ran away? LOL....I put my stats out there in a NEW post and you are welcome to attack them. And....

I continued to respond in this thread. How is that running away?

I am not running from my facts.

I look forward to your informative responses to my two posts.

Or IM me and we can really have a open conversation.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Reply #86)

Mon May 21, 2012, 07:54 PM

91. That's their MO

Troll you into silence.

In one poster's own words: "But I bet you think twice about posting BS about being proud of the Chicago police down the road."

Frankly, I'm disappointed with myself for getting sucked into it again today.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to nobodyspecial (Reply #91)

Mon May 21, 2012, 08:00 PM

94. Explain how it was NOT BS. Don't just whine, back up what you said.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Logical (Reply #94)

Mon May 21, 2012, 08:03 PM

95. Well, I posted photos AND video links of the specific incident

which were quickly dismissed. It was an eyewitness account but I guess people who weren't even there know more about what happened. It all revolves around the premise that ALL cops are evil, blood-thirsty thugs and protesters NEVER do anything wrong.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to nobodyspecial (Reply #95)

Mon May 21, 2012, 08:06 PM

99. I cannot tell if you are serious. For EVERY photo you can post someone can post 100....

of the police beating someone for NO REASON.

Do you realize it is a history of abuse by the Chicago PD?

Hell, under your logic you could defend the police in any situation.

You need to look at all the evidence. Not a few set of photos.

You need to pay closer attention.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Logical (Reply #99)

Mon May 21, 2012, 08:13 PM

101. Here is the title of the thread

"Putting the picture of the Chicago cop punching a protester in context"

I am posting photos and video of the specific event raised in the OP. I am very on topic.

Nowhere did I claim that there is no abuse by Chicago PD. Nowhere did I say police are justified in any situation. I did look at the evidence -- photos and an eyewitness account by the professional journalist who shot them -- germane to the specific incident raised in the OP. You need to actually read and entertain notions contrary to your narrative.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to nobodyspecial (Reply #101)

Mon May 21, 2012, 08:15 PM

102. "context" makes it sound like you are saying the police are correct! Does it not? n-t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Logical (Reply #102)

Mon May 21, 2012, 08:20 PM

104. Oh, I'm sorry

I guess they should have just allowed the protesters to hit them again with a sturdier piece of wood. Silly me.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Logical (Reply #102)

Mon May 21, 2012, 08:22 PM

105. Look up the word 'context' somewhere.

It means nothing about being pro or con about something.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to nobodyspecial (Reply #84)

Mon May 21, 2012, 07:51 PM

90. what was that, balsa wood... and what idiot did that?

Sorry, but it looks like the tension was brought on by the police themselves. It's NOT an excuse to start hitting anyone you feel like.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to fascisthunter (Reply #90)

Tue May 22, 2012, 09:55 AM

132. That was a piece of lathe. But the platinum blond was clearly threatening the helmetless cop

with a copy of '1984'.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Original post)

Mon May 21, 2012, 07:45 PM

87. When Occupiers attempted to regain Zuccotti using a legit =court order= saying they could, this cop

 

punched this older woman. Is HE justified? THAT'S RHETORICAL



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fire Walk With Me (Reply #87)

Mon May 21, 2012, 07:48 PM

88. Can't even see the woman. But he was probably not justified.

What's your point? That protesters in Chicago did NOT behave badly? Not sure I see the connection.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fire Walk With Me (Reply #87)

Tue May 22, 2012, 08:01 AM

129. Of course he's justified, according to the OP. You're lacking a sense of perspective here.

 

That woman brutally assaulted the cop's fist with her face.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Original post)

Mon May 21, 2012, 08:05 PM

96. If true

That all those cops had nothing to do, then what were they doing?

Why in the heck were all those cops stationed there? What was Chicago afraid of?

The one video i saw, it looked as if the cops could have been beating up one of their own. Why would they be doing that?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Original post)

Mon May 21, 2012, 08:06 PM

98. Screenshots of what cops nation-wide think about Occupiers

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fire Walk With Me (Reply #98)

Mon May 21, 2012, 10:58 PM

118. Which is quite a contrast with

the love and respect expressed here, by occupiers and supporters. I'll bet, if they could just come here and read the posts of support, their hearts would melt, and there would be universal peace and harmony.








Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Original post)

Mon May 21, 2012, 08:23 PM

106. More "perspective" for you...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Earth_First (Reply #106)

Mon May 21, 2012, 09:27 PM

111. What perspective?

Who is that?
Where is this picture from?
When was this photo taken?
How did he receive a head injury?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Original post)

Mon May 21, 2012, 10:34 PM

115. Chicago spent over $63 million defending police misconduct: study

 

http://www.chicagonow.com/chicago-muckrakers/2012/05/chicago-spent-over-63-million-defending-police-misconduct-study/

The Chicago law firm that's known for bringing cases of police brutality, false arrest and wrongful convictions wanted to find out just how much the city was paying to outside firms to defend police officers accused of misconduct.

After obtaining records with a Freedom of Information Act Request, they calculated a total: $63.38 million paid to just 11 firms since 2003.

And these firms have been accused of misconduct themselves. The firm that's received the most money--Andrew Hale and Associates--has been cited numerous times for unethical behavior by district court judges, PLO says.

Just who's raking in the dough? Here's a snapshot of the money going to outside law firms: (At link)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Original post)

Mon May 21, 2012, 11:17 PM

120. This whole thread has made me proud of the DU

One of the biggest hot button issues in the DU and not one post in the thread hidden by the jury. Spirited disagreement sure, but a decent discussion can still be had on the interwebs.

What a great place this is..........

K&R

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to SmileyRose (Reply #120)

Tue May 22, 2012, 12:04 AM

124. uh...

but I think it's just one. #71

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to SmileyRose (Reply #120)

Tue May 22, 2012, 11:59 AM

139. In fact, the OP has a post hidden in the thread...

the only one.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Original post)

Mon May 21, 2012, 11:20 PM

122. Oh no, not a piece of balsa wood.

What next, protesters armed with styrofoam and nerf guns? Those poor beleaguered cops. All the beatings and macings and thuggish violence were totally justified.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to girl gone mad (Reply #122)

Mon May 21, 2012, 11:50 PM

123. Fine I'll hit you with one

and see how you like it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Original post)

Tue May 22, 2012, 08:24 AM

130. OH THE HUMANITY!

"Broke" the piece of lathe.

Lathe breaks when you pick it up wrong, police mob apologist. Why do you think it sells for $7 for a bundle of 50 pieces? A freakin' toothpick carries almost as much impact.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Original post)

Tue May 22, 2012, 09:50 AM

131. **********BULLSHIT OP DEFENDING COPS WHO STRUCK FIRST*********

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Original post)

Tue May 22, 2012, 10:54 AM

134. Good morning America showed this particular shot in motion, and the cop is moving in on these people

and it appears that his movement is forceful and fast and leaves those with these paint sticks very little notice to do anything. It is a total different feel than what this still shot conveys....

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Original post)

Tue May 22, 2012, 11:32 AM

137. Protests in Chicago seem amazingly tame compared to other locations.


I noticed that before this weekend. And thought they might have learned something from their disaster in '68. This weekend seems to have proven that point as this was an extremely peaceful weekend all around.

- No pepper spray
- No tear gas
- No dogs
- Only one substantial clash. Police admit to having initiated it to clear the street. And they chose not to wear full body armor during the clash feeling it was unnecessary.

Results?

- Zero property damage
- No molotov cocktails
- No rock throwing, etc

And the Chief of Police credits this to light-handed treatment of the protestors as opposed to the usual heavy-handed tactics used in other cities.

Hopefully other cities will learn and stop abusing the protestors.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Original post)

Tue May 22, 2012, 11:57 AM

138. I remember 68. And the recent torture and false imprisonment case

http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/Cook-County-Settles-Burge-Torture-Case-151507235.html

So my general opinion of them is based on the long history of really foul deeds under color of authority. That sort of an organization gets no benefit of the doubt.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Original post)

Tue May 22, 2012, 02:30 PM

146. LOL, there's an apologist for everything

 

This should keep you busy for a while, try google images "police brutality".

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to just1voice (Reply #146)

Wed May 23, 2012, 02:37 PM

149. Context

Most of which is edited and described in such a way that the context is lost. If someone wants to avoid being handled roughly by the police then it is in their best interest to cooperate. Funny how this always seems to happen after recklessly attempting to avoid arrest. Even if someone was innocent of whatever the stop was originally for I have no empathy for selfishly putting the lives of others in danger. If you aren't guilty then cooperation will hasten your exoneration. If not, then don't act like a petulant child and take responsibility for your actions.

The real victims here are the other motorists and pedestrians who were hurt or killed, or came close to it. Or the destruction of property that someone worked hard to get. Funny how everyone seems to forget them in favor of some criminal's (because whatever the original guilt was, fleeing and reckless driving ARE crimes) poor pitiful me sob story.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to facetious_badger (Reply #149)

Wed May 23, 2012, 09:45 PM

151. Not always and often not so. I used to think that, but after being stopped and harassed by a local

cop, no longer do so. He pulled up behind me when I stopped to visit an art gallery and yelled "hey, can we talk?" Of course I said sure, how are you doing sort of thing. He told me I'd pulled out too close in front of someone a while back. I apologized and asked where it was because I wanted to know where I'd done it, how I'd missed being safe. He went off on my when I didn't recognize the names of the streets. "you live here, you MUST know the street names". At which point I started yes sir, no sir, I am sorry sir, I try to be a good role model for my child sir, I am sorry sir, I will be more careful sir, I am sorry sir, etc etc etc etc and he kept yelling at me, glaring very angrily.

I thought of asking if I was under arrest, or simply walking away, but we had taser happy cops here at that time and I really didn't want to experience it. After he finally left, I went in the gallery and everyone there came over, surrounded me, asked wtf was going on as they were very concerned watching this. They said they thought of calling the police, but recognized the irony of it.

I didn't know the name of a couple streets. That was my problem. Was I cooperative? Very much so. Why did he yell at me for at least 5 minutes? Because I was uncooperatively not knowing the street names.

I was innocent of whatever the stop was for, and cooperated as best I could.

It happens and too often. I was victimized by this asshole who had a badge and a shitty attitude. Maybe his mom just died, his dog ate the couch, his kid was sick. I don't know. But he had no right to act this way. None.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to uppityperson (Reply #151)

Thu May 24, 2012, 02:54 AM

153. consider

Try to consider this from his point of view. For all you know your type of car or someone who looked like you could have a BOLO out on them. They may have had reports of suspicious activity or complaints about what a motorist may have done.

Even if he was being an asshole for no reason you can't condemn the police as a whole. Every job field has them. By and large police have a dangerous, thankless job for mediocre pay. They do it because they want to serve. They aren't saints, but by and large they are good people with integrity.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to facetious_badger (Reply #153)

Thu May 24, 2012, 03:13 AM

154. He'd followed me for several blocks. Then called to me when I stopped where I was going.

If there was a bolo, why did he keep me there so long, glaring and scolding me, over and over and over to the point the witnesses were concerned about wtf was going on? He had an attitude problem. Plain and simple. For some reason my not knowing the name of a street set him off. Seriously. That was when he got going, irate, red in the face, to the point I became frightened as did the witnesses.

You wrote:
If someone wants to avoid being handled roughly by the police then it is in their best interest to cooperate. Funny how this always seems to happen after recklessly attempting to avoid arrest. Even if someone was innocent of whatever the stop was originally for I have no empathy for selfishly putting the lives of others in danger. If you aren't guilty then cooperation will hasten your exoneration. If not, then don't act like a petulant child and take responsibility for your actions.


My example was to show you that this is not always true. Even if you cooperate, still they can be assholes and those who fall afoul of their assholery are not always "petulant child"...not taking responsibility for their actions.

I've known plenty of nice cops, have friends who were cops. But this guy was an asshole and has destroyed a lot of my respect and trust for cops. Now when I see them in my little town, I am cautious.

There are jerks in every profession. When you are in the position of power like this guy was, like police are, being a jerk hurts so many other people, both in your profession and the general public. And they don't always respond appropriately.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to uppityperson (Reply #154)

Thu May 24, 2012, 10:08 AM

156. One

My post was in reference to people actually fleeing or resisting arrest. Those tend to be the scenarios involved in most escalation of force incidents. If he had tried to strike you then yes I would view that situation as an improper use of force, but being a jerk doesn't doesn't qualify. You don't know what preceded your encounter. What may have seemed as an out of the blue attempt to bully you may have just been spillover from an earlier incident. It also doesn't mean he isn't good at his job.

As far as the BOLO bit goes: because precautionary detainment tends to result in lawsuits for the city, and considering those sorts of notices are more likely to be descriptions than names he could very well have been assessing the likelihood of it being you. Law enforcement has the dubious distinction of being a profession that can just about always (under the current American litigious philosophy) results in a hefty lawsuit. Sometimes they're an Abner Louima, and are very much justified. Most of the time they're not, and even if the city wins the case it is often after months of time, money, and personnel being diverted for the trial. I am not saying without a doubt that there was a BOLO or anything else, I'm just trying to give you perspective on the matter.

How does overzealous questioning count as rough treatment? And one incident involving a police officer you felt was rude has seriously damaged your trust in law enforcement as a whole? If so I advise you to stay away from Taco Bell before some low paid cook forever ruins burritos for you.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to facetious_badger (Reply #156)

Thu May 24, 2012, 12:26 PM

157. yup, tazing a 73 yr old man for not taking a ticket, or a 52 yr old who was passed out with an

insulin overdose. Those sure were scary things for those poor cops here. And so professional! As it says on the ticket, it will be mailed to you if you don't WANT to accept it in person. And the diabetic? Yes, he was fleeing so fast, being unconscious on the ground. If only he'd appreciated ALL those cops were trying to do for him. The horror! Those poor police officers, only trying to maintain order.

Overzealous questioning counts as harassment, and if I'd turned away, betcha I'd have gotten tazed. So I didn't. I stood, waited, repeated myself over and over and over and over and over and over and over and was glad when I found out I'd had witnesses, also watching and waiting for me to get tazed.

How about John Williams, the carver who got shot in Seattle a couple yrs back. His crime? Walking while deaf and carrying a piece of wood and a legal knife. He crossed a street in front of a cruiser. Cop got out, follows behind him (now off camera), yells hey hey hey put the knife down. When Mr Williams turns to see who is yelling, he gets shot 3 times. No "police", just "hey, hey, hey, put the knife down". Walking down the street in a city, you hear someone yell "hey hey hey" and turn to see what the noise is and blam blam blam. Within 7 seconds. Did I mention he was partially deaf? Did I mention he was carrying a knife that was legal to carry? Did I mention there was no mention the person calling was a cop? Did I mention he was given no chance to comply with the order? Did I mention Seattle police ruled the shooting was not justified?

But no. That poor officer was just doing his job, right? And now he has to live with knowing he did this, for the rest of his life. Poor guy. Right?

The more power you have, the more you have to keep it under control and the less often should you have a bad day.

Thank you for your concern.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to wndycty (Original post)

Wed May 23, 2012, 05:18 AM

147. police

Thank you for the balanced viewpoint! Much of those alleged police brutality clips never show the whole picture of what happened. The police have shown a great deal of restraint. The police are vastly outnumbered, there are some groups who are vocal about their dislike or hatred of the police, and riots can be instigated more rapidly than most people think. They can't just focus on the people in front of them, they have to monitor 360 degrees around themselves, constantly assess the mood of the crowd, keep on the lookout for any potential crime, are often heckled and have things thrown at them, and must still be able to engage with people in the crowd. For the duration of their time in the crowd they keep every single one of those points constantly in mind, and often do not have any protection except for maybe a bulletproof vest. It's scary stuff, and violence can crop up out of nowhere with the slightest shift in the crowd's mood.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread