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Tue Jul 30, 2013, 07:07 PM

Michael Moore: What Bradley Manning's Sentence Will Tell Us About Our Military Justice System

Today Bradley Manning was convicted on 20 of 22 counts, including violating the Espionage Act, releasing classified information and disobeying orders. That's the bad news. The good news is he was found not guilty on the charge of "aiding the enemy." That's 'cause who he was aiding was us, the American people. And we're not the enemy. Right?

Manning now faces a potential maximum sentence of 136 years in jail. When his sentence is announced tomorrow, we'll all get a good idea of how seriously the U.S. military takes different crimes. When you hear about how long Manning – now 25 years old – will be in prison, compare it to sentences received by other soldiers:

Col. Thomas M. Pappas, the senior military intelligence officer at Abu Ghraib and the senior officer present the night of the murder of Iraqi prisoner Manadel al-Jamadi, received no jail time. But he was reprimanded and fined $8,000. (Pappas was heard to say about al-Jamadi, "I'm not going down for this alone.")

Sgt. Sabrina Harman, the woman famously seen giving a thumbs-up next to al-Jamadi's body and in another photo smiling next to naked, hooded Iraqis stacked on each other in Abu Ghraib, was sentenced to six months for maltreating detainees.

Spec. Armin Cruz was sentenced to eight months for abusing Iraqis at Abu Ghraib and covering up the abuse.

Spc. Steven Ribordy was sentenced to eight months for being accessory to the murder of four Iraqi prisoners who were "bound, blindfolded, shot and dumped in a canal" in Baghdad in 2007.

Spc. Belmor Ramos was sentenced to seven months for conspiracy to commit murder in the same case.

Sgt. Michael Leahy Jr. was sentenced to life in prison for committing the four Baghdad murders. The military then granted him clemency and reduced his sentence to 20 years, with parole possible after seven.

Marine Sgt. Frank D. Wuterich received no jail time for negligent dereliction in the massacre of 24 unarmed men, women and children in 2005 in the Iraqi town of Haditha. Seven other members of his battalion were charged but none were punished in any way.

Marine Lance Cpl. Jerry Shumate and Lance Cpl. Tyler Jackson were both sentenced to 21 months for the aggravated assault of Hashim Ibrahim Awad, 52, a father of 11 and grandfather of four, in Al Hamdania in 2006. Awad died after being shot during the assault. Their sentences were later reduced.

Marine Lance Cpl. Robert Pennington was sentenced to eight years for the same incident, but served only a few months before being granted clemency and released from prison.

Marine Sgt. Lawrence G. Hutchins III was sentenced to 15 years for murder in the Awad case but his conviction was soon overturned and he was released.

No soldiers received any punishment for the killing of five Iraqi children, four women and two men in one Ishaqi home in 2006. Among the U.S. diplomatic cables leaked by Bradley Manning was email from a UN official stating that U.S. soldiers had "executed all of them." When Wikileaks published the cable, the uproar in Iraq was so big that the Nouri al-Maliki government couldn't grant any remaining U.S. troops immunity from prosecution in Iraqi courts, thus forcing the Obama administration to abandon its plans to keep several thousand U.S. soldiers in Iraq permanently. All U.S. troops were removed at the end of 2011.

My guess is Bradley Manning will spend more time in jail than all of the other soldiers in all of these cases put together. And thus, instead of redeeming ourselves and asking forgiveness for the crimes that Spc. Manning exposed, we will reaffirm to the world who we really are.


http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/mike-friends-blog/what-bradley-mannings-sentence-will-tell-us-about-military-justice-system

41 replies, 3425 views

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Arrow 41 replies Author Time Post
Reply Michael Moore: What Bradley Manning's Sentence Will Tell Us About Our Military Justice System (Original post)
cal04 Jul 2013 OP
Solly Mack Jul 2013 #1
MindPilot Jul 2013 #2
SammyWinstonJack Jul 2013 #26
adirondacker Jul 2013 #3
think Jul 2013 #4
Hydra Jul 2013 #5
think Jul 2013 #6
truebluegreen Jul 2013 #28
chervilant Jul 2013 #7
warrant46 Jul 2013 #19
The Blue Flower Jul 2013 #8
The Wizard Jul 2013 #9
Demeter Jul 2013 #30
demwing Jul 2013 #35
Demeter Jul 2013 #36
John2 Jul 2013 #10
cal04 Jul 2013 #13
hack89 Jul 2013 #33
randome Jul 2013 #11
Fumesucker Jul 2013 #22
guyton Jul 2013 #12
Name removed Jul 2013 #14
idwiyo Jul 2013 #16
Name removed Jul 2013 #24
kenny blankenship Jul 2013 #17
Agschmid Jul 2013 #21
Agschmid Jul 2013 #20
BainsBane Jul 2013 #31
idwiyo Jul 2013 #15
woo me with science Jul 2013 #18
randome Jul 2013 #23
rhett o rick Jul 2013 #41
truebluegreen Jul 2013 #25
Dustlawyer Jul 2013 #27
MADem Jul 2013 #29
Demeter Jul 2013 #32
Pelican Jul 2013 #38
idwiyo Jul 2013 #40
Mnemosyne Jul 2013 #34
xchrom Jul 2013 #37
Quantess Jul 2013 #39

Response to cal04 (Original post)

Tue Jul 30, 2013, 07:11 PM

1. K&R

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Tue Jul 30, 2013, 07:15 PM

2. And there are still those who think Snowden should "come home and face the music".

they remain completely clueless.

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Response to MindPilot (Reply #2)

Tue Jul 30, 2013, 08:56 PM

26. +1!

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Tue Jul 30, 2013, 07:15 PM

3. Bookmark and Big K&R. I was waiting for a comparative analysis. Excellent reference. nt

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Tue Jul 30, 2013, 07:17 PM

4. K&R

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Tue Jul 30, 2013, 07:18 PM

5. Obscene

I knew the wrongdoing had been lightly punished, even among the grunts, but that list really puts it in perspective, considering that Manning already accepted 20 years that he doesn't deserve.

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Tue Jul 30, 2013, 07:21 PM

6. Manning has already been in jail over 3 years....

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Response to think (Reply #6)

Tue Jul 30, 2013, 08:57 PM

28. Best possible outcome would be "time served".

Not that that will happen, not in this "justice" system.

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Tue Jul 30, 2013, 07:27 PM

7. Let's not fail to mention

that Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Rice, Perl, and a plethora of other miscreants should face legal consequences for their crimes. I won't live to see it, I'm sure.

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Response to chervilant (Reply #7)

Tue Jul 30, 2013, 08:37 PM

19. And neither will I live to see it

Rich Corporate war criminals live out their lives on the French Riviera or some other fabulous place, protected by a coterie of taxpayer provided Body Guards.

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Tue Jul 30, 2013, 07:28 PM

8. Crimes against humanity are no longer crimes

They are considered service. Crimes against the state are the only ones the state cares about enough to prosecute.

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Tue Jul 30, 2013, 07:59 PM

9. Any country that

protects and rewards war criminals (Bush cartel) and punishes those who uphold the edicts of the Geneva Accords (reporting war crimes) is headed for extinction. We have become morally bankrupt and degenerate. Say good bye to America and say hello to the world. The road to empire is paved with failed republics.

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Response to The Wizard (Reply #9)

Tue Jul 30, 2013, 09:01 PM

30. +10 to the tenth

Wiz, that's a DUzy indeed!

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Response to Demeter (Reply #30)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 07:10 AM

35. I'm confused - this was quite serious

How was it a DUzy?

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Response to demwing (Reply #35)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 09:09 AM

36. Worthy of wider attention

a truly outstanding post

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Tue Jul 30, 2013, 08:11 PM

10. Does he have

 

the right for an appeal based on mitigating circumstances? For example, since he was not found guilty on aiding the enemy, basically he released classified information, the Government was hiding from the public, about illegal acts done by persons acting for the Government. Why wouldn't hiding such information be considered a cover up by the Government? Sure he is guilty of disobeying orders and releasing classified documents, but the damage was done to officials that were actors in the cover up. In other words, Manning is a whistle blower to put it simply. The President should give him a pardon.

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Response to John2 (Reply #10)

Tue Jul 30, 2013, 08:18 PM

13. I'm not sure if he does but Julian Assange expects Bradley Manning to appeal ‘dangerous’ verdict

WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange on Tuesday called US soldier Bradley Manning a “hero” and said he expected him to appeal after a military judge convicted him of espionage.

Assange said the verdict had set a “dangerous precedent” and was an example of “national security extremism” from the Obama administration.

He told journalists at a small press conference in London’s Ecuadorian embassy that he “expects that the case will be appealed.”

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/07/30/julian-assange-expects-bradley-manning-to-appeal-dangerous-verdict/

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Response to cal04 (Reply #13)

Tue Jul 30, 2013, 09:04 PM

33. Manning cannot appeal.

he plead guilty to numerous counts. Part of pleading guilty is that you give up your right to appeal those counts.

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Tue Jul 30, 2013, 08:13 PM

11. It may tell us something about the judge who found him guilty, maybe.


Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.

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Response to randome (Reply #11)

Tue Jul 30, 2013, 08:41 PM

22. It'll also tell us something about all the other judges who sentenced the other cases

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Tue Jul 30, 2013, 08:18 PM

12. congress?

And how much jail time for the war-crime of voting to invade another country, just because they scared us?

That's essentially what congress did. A stand-your-ground defense on a horrific scale.

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Response to cal04 (Original post)


Response to Name removed (Reply #14)

Tue Jul 30, 2013, 08:35 PM

16. Care to elaborate on your post?

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Response to idwiyo (Reply #16)


Response to Name removed (Reply #14)

Tue Jul 30, 2013, 08:36 PM

17. See if you can complete this analogy. Herp is to derp, as derp is to_______?

A) herp.
B) moar herp.
C) twerp.
D) gay.

The correct answer is A) herp. Derp and herp enjoy a symmetrical relationship of identity. If you answered D) gay, then you may be spending too much time worrying about the gay. If you answered B) or C, then you are stupid into the bargain.

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Response to kenny blankenship (Reply #17)

Tue Jul 30, 2013, 08:40 PM

21. Thread win.

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Response to Name removed (Reply #14)

Tue Jul 30, 2013, 08:39 PM

20. Crap post.

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Response to Name removed (Reply #14)

Tue Jul 30, 2013, 09:01 PM

31. better edit this then

cause it's with a jury


Sorry, Dude. Everyone thought it was a homophobic remark. When a jury hides a post from a newbie, they are automatically banned. If you want to sign up again, feel free to do so. Just be more careful in how you word things, especially early posts.

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Tue Jul 30, 2013, 08:32 PM

15. Yay for fucking justice. While Bush&Co responsible for the death of hundreds of thousands of

civilians, torture, and other war crimes walk free and enjoy life, Bradley Manning is the one who is going to prison.

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Tue Jul 30, 2013, 08:36 PM

18. Whistleblowers are SUPPOSED to be protected in this country.



Whistleblowers are supposed to be protected in this country.


Obama has Prosecuted More Whistleblowers than All Other Presidents COMBINED
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/04/obama-has-prosecuted-more-whistleblowers-than-all-other-presidents-combined.html

Obama administration wages legal battle against the whistleblower and union protections of hundreds of thousands of federal employees
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022672473

A broader, outrageous interpretation of the Espionage Act.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023365713



The promises were lies. They are dismantling the Constitution and eliminating the avenues for exposing and addressing government corruption and abuse.

Obama Promises, Including Whistleblower Protections, Disappear From Website
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014549454
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023344766






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Response to woo me with science (Reply #18)

Tue Jul 30, 2013, 08:47 PM

23. Whistleblowers are supposed to reveal illegality or abuse.

Shooting at perceived insurgents in a war zone does not qualify as either. The soldiers in the helicopter asked for, and were given, permission to fire.

Julian Assange himself said it looked like one in the group was carrying an RPG.

So was there anything else that 'whistleblower' Manning revealed besides this?

And the Obama Administration has prosecuted 'leakers', not 'whistleblowers'. There is a difference.

Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.

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Response to randome (Reply #23)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 06:19 PM

41. Rationalization is the key to happiness for some. You must be ecstatic. nm

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Tue Jul 30, 2013, 08:55 PM

25. Sadly, I think he's right.

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Tue Jul 30, 2013, 08:56 PM

27. I would like to think that b/c he was so young and naive he would get something of a break,

even 20 years at this point, but I know they will throw the book at him!
The powers that govern our country (not Obama nor the other branches of government, but the ones that own all 3 branches of government and the media) will NEVER give up the access to the gold mine that this NSA info is! Any perceived threat to their control of us will be dealt with harshly. They need that info to know what is going on so they can stop us before we can really get started. OWS caught them off guard and they will not let that happen again.
What the hell, anyone want to start a massive protest for COMPLETE CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM (CCFR)? Publicly funded elections would put an end to the legal bribery that is our campaign finance system. Is anyone else tired of watching our Representatives ignore the will of their constituents to lick the boots of the corporations and the 1%? Are you tired of watching them throw out social issue after social issue and nothing for jobs? As for social issues, is anyone else tired of them voting down equal pay for women, gay marriage, medicinal pot, ... How about no prosecutions for Wall Streeters, corruption in military contracts, BP, Exxon... or do you like the Koch suckers calling the shots?
Let's get something started! Lets attack the ROOT CAUSE of almost all of our problems! Is it a monumental undertaking, abso-F'in-lutely it is! We would have to do this outside of the Democratic Party since most of them are on the take too. We would have to recruit candidates willing to pledge to CCFR as the 1st order of business. We could even start it on the local levels 1st, state-by-state just like the U.S. Chamber of Commerce did 35 years ago. Who here would be interested in helping to organize and spread the word? If everyone here at DU committed to it, we would start to see it grow exponentially! Of course the Democrats that are still drinking the cool-aid and think this is still D's vs. R's would take longer to come around, but they eventually would. I am tired of the lesser of two evils, that is the only choices we get these days!
Lastly, if you think that I have gone off the conspiracy highway, just remember this, our system now allows unlimited money to be spent to elect who you want. It is a proven fact that campaign contributions of the scale that the corporations and the 1% currently give, have the greatest return on investment! They get the government contracts they want for the price they want to charge and we foot the bill. That is why neither party is talking about a serious cut to our military budget even though we spend more than the next 18 countries combined! We can still have a strong military, Medicare for all, strengthen Social Security, fix the infrastructure, address climate change, and reinvest in education with a proper re-allocation of our tax dollars. That is also after real and fair tax reform. None of those things will ever come to pass and America will drop out of the most advanced countries of the world if things are allowed to continue business as usual!
Whew! Sorry for the long rant, but as you can see I am done playing their game. Call me when you realize that you have been watching the Harlem Globetrotters vs. the Washington Generals thinking it was all real.

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Tue Jul 30, 2013, 09:00 PM

29. What an odd selection of punishments...why didn't he choose the obvious Lynndie England and

Charles Graner? (Three and ten years, both served around half of what they were given).

Well, with those sentences, he thinks Manning is going to get forty five years or more.

I dunno. I think he might get less.

We will know tomorrow.

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Tue Jul 30, 2013, 09:04 PM

32. We Have to Elect a President Who Will Unconditionally Pardon Him

and all the whistleblowers Obama has betrayed.

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Response to Demeter (Reply #32)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 09:12 AM

38. Anyone that stupid...

 

... would never get elected.

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Response to Pelican (Reply #38)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 10:56 AM

40. The smart ones protect torturers and war criminals. According to your logic.

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Tue Jul 30, 2013, 11:20 PM

34. K&R nt

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 09:11 AM

37. du rec.

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 10:12 AM

39. I think it's a travesty. (no text)

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