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Thu Jul 18, 2013, 06:20 PM

Snowden in Moscow by Israel Shamir - Counterpunch

http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/07/17/snowden-in-moscow

Pro-Kremlin and Assange buddy writer Israel Shamir on why Eddie should stay in Russia

* see below for background on Shamir and Wikileaks

--- snip


Why did they hesitate for so long?

Snowden is an American, and the Americans, like the British, are quite prejudiced against Russia ...He felt that by embracing Russia he would lose his whistle-blower status and be regarded as an enemy agent, a totally different kettle of fish.

This was the case for Julian Assange, as well. When it was proposed that the head of Wikileaks flee to Russia (it was technically possible), he procrastinated, dragged his feet and remained in England, unable, in the end, to cross the great East/West divide.

Snowden was not seeking limelight, quite the opposite! He wished to stop the crimes being committed by No Such Agency in the name of American people, no more, no less. He hoped to become a new Deep Throat, whose identity would never be revealed. His first profound revelations were made by correspondence; he flew to Hong Kong as he was familiar with the place, REALLY?? spoke fluent Chinese, and planned to return home to Hawaii.

-------

At first, the Americans put enormous pressure on Cuba to refuse transit for Snowden. They threatened Cuba with invasion and blockade, and Castro asked Snowden to look for another route. No airline but Aeroflot would fly Snowden out of Russia, and Aeroflot flies via Havana only. So the first plan got unstuck. The gas summit in Moscow offered another opportunity for escape: the summit was attended by the presidents of Bolivia and Venezuela, both came with their private planes able to make the long flight. Bolivian president Evo Morales had left Moscow first; his plane was forced down and searched, setting a historical precedent. This served as a warning to the Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro; he flew away from Moscow Snowden-less.

This was an important discovery for Ed Snowden: he learned by this experience that there is just one country on the planet that is outside of the US grasp. Just one country that is a real alternative to the Empire; the only country Navy Seals are not likely to raid nor Obama drones to bomb, the only country whose planes can’t be scrambled and searched. He understood that Moscow is the only safe place on the globe for an identified enemy of the Empire. Now he was ready to contact the Russians; he resumed his temporary refuge request, which will probably be granted.



Who is Israel Shamir? -- From Snowed on Snowden article:

http://3dblogger.typepad.com/wired_state/2013/07/snowed-on-snowden.html

WIKILEAKS AND THE MOSCOW LINE


---- snip from article


I shouldn't have to prove that WikiLeaks is pro-Kremlin and even has as its East European region representative a pro-Kremlin hack Israel Shamir who is an antisemitic provocateur who leaked WikiLeaks cables on the opposition in Belarus to the dictator Lukashenka to help him crackdown on them in 2010 and later. That was pretty despicable, and all of this is well known, on the record, and not disputed anymore. As James Ball writes:

When questions were asked about Shamir's involvement with WikiLeaks, given his controversial background and unorthodox requests, we were told in no uncertain terms that Assange would not condone criticism of his friend. Instead, a mealy-mouthed statement distancing WikiLeaks from its freelancers was issued. Still later, when damning evidence emerged that Shamir had handed cables material to the dictator of Belarus – a man he holds in high esteem – to assist his persecution of opposition activists, Assange shamefully refused to investigate

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Arrow 39 replies Author Time Post
Reply Snowden in Moscow by Israel Shamir - Counterpunch (Original post)
flamingdem Jul 2013 OP
flamingdem Jul 2013 #1
Cha Jul 2013 #32
cali Jul 2013 #2
flamingdem Jul 2013 #3
msanthrope Jul 2013 #4
flamingdem Jul 2013 #5
msanthrope Jul 2013 #6
flamingdem Jul 2013 #7
msanthrope Jul 2013 #11
flamingdem Jul 2013 #12
msanthrope Jul 2013 #13
sabrina 1 Jul 2013 #15
flamingdem Jul 2013 #17
sabrina 1 Jul 2013 #23
flamingdem Jul 2013 #25
msanthrope Jul 2013 #20
sabrina 1 Jul 2013 #24
msanthrope Jul 2013 #26
Mojorabbit Jul 2013 #27
Major Hogwash Jul 2013 #30
DevonRex Jul 2013 #14
flamingdem Jul 2013 #16
flamingdem Jul 2013 #19
Mosby Jul 2013 #38
flamingdem Jul 2013 #39
msanthrope Jul 2013 #22
flamingdem Jul 2013 #29
flamingdem Jul 2013 #31
msanthrope Jul 2013 #35
Scurrilous Jul 2013 #8
flamingdem Jul 2013 #10
Scurrilous Jul 2013 #28
DevonRex Jul 2013 #9
struggle4progress Jul 2013 #18
flamingdem Jul 2013 #21
Cha Jul 2013 #33
CakeGrrl Jul 2013 #34
ProSense Jul 2013 #36
flamingdem Jul 2013 #37

Response to flamingdem (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 06:26 PM

1. An anti-Russia Perspective: Russian Intelligence Intends to Gag Snowden and Keep Him in Russia


http://www.jamestown.org/single/?no_cache=1&tx_ttnews=41139&tx_ttnews=7&cHash=ff9ec857407acb4097be21d8aeb7ae1b#.UehlulPZc5L

--- snip

Putin may be annoyed by the Snowden saga and by the NSA leaker’s apparent reluctance to act as a defector must act, but it seems the Russian intelligence services have insisted that keeping Snowden may work. Snowden apparently has passed on to journalists, including The Guardian columnist Glenn Greenwald, a database of files he had stolen from the NSA; thus, the publication of damaging revelations may continue with Snowden himself gagged and holed up somewhere in Russia. Of course, from the point of view of the Russian intelligence services Snowden’s data discs without Snowden himself to verify their validity are not of much use—not real “documents,” but a collection of files of questionable origin. On the contrary, while holding Snowden (if it is, indeed, possible to tame him into full cooperation), the Russians could work through the database during a genuine debriefing procedure and collect useful insights into the NSA’s work. Serious problems may still arise, however, if Putin decides that Snowden has once again changed his mind, broken his word and is, in fact, continuing to publicly attack the US government and the NSA, using Moscow as a cover. Russian law does not allow the arbitrary expulsion of a person given “temporary refuge status,” but Putin’s wrath is known to have bent Russian law in different directions. It is not absolutely clear whether Snowden understands the actual circumstances he is in, or the rules of the place of his refuge.

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Response to flamingdem (Reply #1)

Fri Jul 19, 2013, 02:35 AM

32. I know he won't but I'm going to say it anyway.. snowden better quit

playing with Fire or he's going to melt. like a snowman in the Spring.

It's clear from snowden's message from Moscow that he doesn't understand much at all.

mahalo, flamindem

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Response to flamingdem (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 06:26 PM

2. yep. shamir is a really unsavory character

vile might be a better description. but so what? vile characters can be found on both sides of the snowden debate.

I'm not quite sure what your point is other than that Shamir is a creep.

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Response to cali (Reply #2)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 06:28 PM

3. He's a friend of Assange and a conduit to the Kremlin

I deduct from this that Assange wants Snowden in Russia, and this might be while Snowden is saying things like he wants now to become a Russian citizen.

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Response to flamingdem (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 06:41 PM

4. I did a few posts on this vicious anti-Semite.....you should read the deniers.....

He's changed his name from Joran Jermas...the guy who pushed the Internet rumor that all Jews got texts on the morning of 9/11 telling them to stay home from the WTC.

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #4)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 06:45 PM

5. I haven't figured out why Assange is his friend, but one or the other

provides access to the Kremlin perhaps.

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Response to flamingdem (Reply #5)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 07:25 PM

6. Vermin find each other. Shamir also fronted the CIA/honeypot lie for

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #6)

Fri Jul 19, 2013, 12:21 AM

7. Your post from January'12 was just tweeted here in conversation between GG and LibertyLinx:

R ‏@LibertyLynx 1h

. @EdwardGarrison You need this kind of assistance from Glenn? http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002101211 @ggreenwald

link:
https://twitter.com/LibertyLynx

whole conversation:
Glenn Greenwald ‏@ggreenwald 13h

@evanmcmurry "the second journalist Snowden contacted" (who was the first?) - "maintains that his access to Snowden is limited" (I do?)
Expand
Edward Garrison ‏@EdwardGarrison 13h

@ggreenwald GG you should Twitter follow me. Want to DM you regarding case and case assistance. Lets talk.
Expand
R ‏@LibertyLynx 1h

. @EdwardGarrison You need this kind of assistance from Glenn? http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002101211 @ggreenwald
Hide conversation

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7:31 PM - 18 Jul 13 · Details

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Response to flamingdem (Reply #7)

Fri Jul 19, 2013, 12:36 AM

11. The irony is that I suspect that since Mr. Greenwald's unethical behavior vitiated the privilege

of attorney work-product, Matt Hale was forced to settle. I explain his incompetence, in this thread---

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023040270#post6

You will note that I am accused of quoting Little Green Footballs, when in fact, LGF and Crooks and Liars posted my OP--it's a pretty amusing exercise from a poster who can't figure out how things get linked.

So, in a way, Glenn managed to defeat a White Supremacist with his own stupidity.

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #11)

Fri Jul 19, 2013, 12:40 AM

12. Very curious this is being brought up

Greenwald is on the twitter all day it seems. I'll have to read up on all this.

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Response to flamingdem (Reply #12)

Fri Jul 19, 2013, 12:49 AM

13. Well, his fuckup of client privilege would indicate a not-so-good lawyer, no?

It might indicate that one had a lawyer who did not safeguard a client's rights.

It might indicate a lawyer who pushed agenda over client.


The thing is, if Edward Snowden took legal advice from Glenn Greenwald then I feel bad for him. If GG gave him legal advice, then I think that was an ethical no-no.


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Response to msanthrope (Reply #11)

Fri Jul 19, 2013, 12:57 AM

15. Why don't you give the facts about that case? You have been provided with them over and over

again and yet continue to repost your old distortion of a case, making it obvious that those who are desperately trying to silence whistle blowers and journalists, are scraping bottom of the barrel to try to find something, ANYTHING on Greenwald and failed, so distortion is all they are left with. You have used it so often now it is almost amusing.

Is there some reason why you ignore the facts of this case? And btw, do you believe that our judicial system is wrong and that lawyers should only represent 'respectable' people?

I find it laudable that Greenwald is capable of putting aside what must be his own abhorrence for people who hate him for being Gay AND Jewish, to uphold the system he firmly believes in.

I guess you think some people should be refused representation in court? That is what I take from your repeated posing of this total distortion of a lawyer upholding the system we are so rightfully proud of.

Thankfully most Americans seem to understand what a danger that would be to this democracy. To deny legal representation to certain segments of society. John Adams would roll over in his grave.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #15)

Fri Jul 19, 2013, 01:03 AM

17. This may be directed at misanthrope but I'd respond in relationship to this article

that we don't hear a peep out of Greenwald, Assange or Snowden about the show trial and sentence of Putin's arch rival today, one who turns out tens of thousands on the street and fights corruption, and we don't hear a peep about the way gays are treated in Russia .. because they are over on that side in their anti-US fervor, and Snowden is considering citizenship. And the article, by this nut job anti-semite, is by one of Julian Assange's close associates.

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Response to flamingdem (Reply #17)

Fri Jul 19, 2013, 01:16 AM

23. 'Putin's arch rival' is a racist, Right Wing Nut. And it's more than likely that he is guilty.

He makes Putin look Liberal. Maybe you should learn something about this 'hero' you are defending. Put it this way, Russia is no longer the Soviet Union, in case you were not aware of that, and Russia is an Ally of the US. If 'Putin's Arch Enemy' were to get any traction, which he has not thankfully, in Russia, he would throw out every 'immigrant'. He is the equivalent of the most racist anti-immigrant right winger you can think of here. I see you are pushing him for some reason, I wouldn't do that if I were you as a Democrat. And you might have noticed, not too many other Democrats are too concerned about him.

I've never noticed Greenwald or Assange, heros to most of the world, btw, Liberals, which is why it's odd to see a few here with the attitude they have, on right wing sites, yes, that is a given, but I've never seen either of them promote as heroes, Racist Right Wing Nuts in positions of power, quite the contrary.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #23)

Fri Jul 19, 2013, 01:29 AM

25. You're on point if that's true, I'll research

I didn't know that he's about that -- what I've read is about his popularity and anti-corruption stance. Regardless Putin just passed anti LGBT legislation.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #15)

Fri Jul 19, 2013, 01:04 AM

20. Sabrina, I do not answer your questions. But I will note that if one is going to undertake the

noble representation of an Illinois Nazi---





one should not void that client's privilege in such a manner that settlement becomes an option. I think the Constitutional Center for Rights trounced Mr. Greenwald because of his own hubris, to the disadvantage of Matt Hale. There's a delicious irony in that.

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #20)

Fri Jul 19, 2013, 01:20 AM

24. You cannot answer my questions because you know the facts of this case yet continue to distort

them. Never mind, I will write an OP on the case so that other people are aware of this piece of distortion whenever it appears. Although I have to say even Greenwalds most ardent critics gave up on this one. You appear to be the only one still throwing it around.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #24)

Fri Jul 19, 2013, 01:32 AM

26. I do not answer your questions. And I look forward to your OP, because I think the Striesand Effect

will work quite nicely on this particular legal issue.

In fact, I cannot think of any poster on DU more suited to write a defense of Glenn's fuckup of Rule 26(b)(3). I cannot wait to read your explanation of how the Constitutional Center for Rights was wrong to seek disclosure of the transcripts that Mr. Greenwald made of his surreptitious wiretaps.

I think Mr. Greenwald's competency as a lawyer will be well-represented by your prose.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #24)

Fri Jul 19, 2013, 01:42 AM

27. +100 nt

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #20)

Fri Jul 19, 2013, 02:05 AM

30. Great video.

Great movie.

"We're on a mission . . from God."

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #4)

Fri Jul 19, 2013, 12:55 AM

14. Woah. He claimed Pssy Riot is a weapon by The West to hurt Putin.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Israel_Shamir
"Work with WikiLeaks

WikiLeaks spokesman Kristinn Hrafnsson confirmed in a Swedish radio interview that Shamir works with the group, along with "a lot of journalists that are working with us all around the world" who "have different roles in working on project." Shamir describes himself as an "accredited" freelancer for WikiLeaks, distributing the group's batch of leaked U.S. cables to Russian news organizations. Daniel Domscheit-Berg, a dissident former member of WikiLeaks, cited Shamir's involvement as one of the reasons he left the group; he described Shamir as a "famous Holocaust denier and anti-Semite" and claimed that Julian Assange wanted him to contribute under a pseudonym as to avoid "unwarranted attention." Shamir's son, a journalist named Johannes Wahlström — who himself has been accused of Anti-Semitism — is one of WikiLeaks' spokespersons in Sweden, producing a documentary on the group that aired on Swedish public television.
Naturally, Shamir has backed Assange in his extradition dispute with the British and Swedish governments. In September 2010, he co-authored an article on CounterPunch suggesting that one of the Swedish women who had accused Assange of rape was involved in a CIA plot to frame him for the alleged crime. Despite Shamir's background, and the fact that his story couldn't hold up to plausibility, the article was held up by the likes of Keith Olbermann, Bianca Jagger, and the liberal blog FireDogLake as proof that the U.S. was trying to extradite Assange from Britain through Sweden. It was only after the story shot through the Internet like a bullet and potentially slandered the accuser that anybody bothered to look into who had written it. Once information about Shamir's Jewish obsession came out, Olbermann sheepishly tweeted, "If the author of that article is a holocaust denier, I repudiate him and what he wrote, and apologize for retweeting the link."
Despite his work with WikiLeaks and his reportedly-close friendship with Assange, it appears that Shamir has done more harm for the group than good — and not just with his Anti-Semitic polemics. Russian journalists have accused Shamir of fabricating some of the cables he distributed in order to cast Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in a sympathetic light. Others have accused Shamir of passing along sensitive cables to the dictatorial government of Belarus, potentially endangering opposition activists there. Assange reportedly refused to investigate the matter, though a WikiLeaks spokesman said that Shamir's actions were "obviously unapproved." Blogger Richard Bartholomew has noted that Shamir's aforementioned rants against Pussy Riot stand in stark contrast to Assange's stated support for Pussy Riot."

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Response to DevonRex (Reply #14)

Fri Jul 19, 2013, 12:57 AM

16. Assange's "wacky" friend

is quite a nut job.

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Response to DevonRex (Reply #14)

Fri Jul 19, 2013, 01:04 AM

19. Considering that he fabricates and gets caught, why does Counterpunch

publish him? We're seeing the Russian connection here, and someone is benefits

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Response to flamingdem (Reply #19)

Fri Jul 19, 2013, 11:23 AM

38. counterpunch has a thing for antisemites

They also publish franklin lamb, alison weir, gilad atzmon and cynthia mckinney.

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Response to Mosby (Reply #38)

Fri Jul 19, 2013, 11:28 AM

39. Is it anti-semite or anti-Israeli

or both?

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Response to DevonRex (Reply #14)

Fri Jul 19, 2013, 01:09 AM

22. Regarding the Belarus/Ecuador/Wikileaks angle, you might enjoy this article on Al Jazeera--

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #22)

Fri Jul 19, 2013, 01:47 AM

29. I'll read it. What's up with Pres. Maduro stopping over there on his way back from Moscow

The Iran, Russia connection strengthening. The US seems a little low on leverage. Assange is in with the bunch, well maybe not Iran yet.

Meanwhile poor Cuba is just trying to get their ancient weapons fixed in N. Korea. They don't get to play with the big boys.

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #22)

Fri Jul 19, 2013, 02:16 AM

31. Enjoying that twitterer, Ecuador, Russia, Belarus, Iran?

R ‏@LibertyLynx 11h

-> @suigenerisjen was meeting w/ Iranians that Assange contacted in Switzerland. He was trying to make a deal. She never mentions that part.

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Response to flamingdem (Reply #31)

Fri Jul 19, 2013, 09:51 AM

35. I think Assange's dealings with the Iranians were a main factor in his

fleeing Switzerland. There's some untold dirt there.

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Response to flamingdem (Original post)

Fri Jul 19, 2013, 12:30 AM

8. "They threatened Cuba with invasion and blockade..."

Where do they get this stuff? It's so hilariously stupid and wrong.

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Response to Scurrilous (Reply #8)

Fri Jul 19, 2013, 12:34 AM

10. I left that in because it cracked me up

Shamir needs to take some lessons in propaganda 101, at least make it kinda believable! He might as well have said they'd unleash a sharknado on Cuba.

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Response to flamingdem (Reply #10)

Fri Jul 19, 2013, 01:43 AM

28. LOL

Sharknado would be more plausible.

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Response to flamingdem (Original post)

Fri Jul 19, 2013, 12:32 AM

9. As long as Putin is in charge of Russia

you Better Believe I will have an anti-Kremlin attitude. There is NO mystery or surprise that the anti-gay legislation was recently passed and they will arrest LGBTs openly and defiantly and proudly. Even though they have the Olympics coming there.

Putin is an evil person. Former KGB from the Cold War. He would kill any one of us here without blinking an eye. Himself. Happily. If he could feel emotion.

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Response to flamingdem (Original post)

Fri Jul 19, 2013, 01:04 AM

18. Yet another reason to avoid Counterpunch

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #18)

Fri Jul 19, 2013, 01:05 AM

21. lol I just wrote about why did they let this

clown publish this, he'd be good at writing a script for a B movie, not much else. Maybe a Russian version of Sharknado.

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Response to flamingdem (Original post)

Fri Jul 19, 2013, 03:00 AM

33. Wow and Wow!

If there is any kind of majority of public opinion thinking that Edward Snowden is a whistleblower or a hero -- and there are multiple polls, and polls aren't always accurate or fair samples -- then it's because the general public doesn't really follow the back story much on the hacker movement and WikiLeaks and Anonymous in particular.

If they did, they might have a deeper context for understanding how these undemocratic nihilists hijacked the state secrecy issue at their own whim and aided and abetted our enemies. As I've pointed out from the beginning, the end of the road for Edward Snowden, given his politics and his online buddies, was always Moscow.

Interesting find, flamingdem! why the hell does someone like snowden like Moscow so much? Are they libertarian assholes, too, and I just don't know about it?

So...Glenn says "Touch my client and America gets it." That's legal defense and journalism? Really? Not blackmail and terrorism? I see what we're dealing with here. But naturally Glenn spins even this and despite the fact that his client is freaking out that anyone is taking his picture and implying it's because of the fear of being killed by a US drone or something, he pretends that now his client doesn't think that.

"WIKILEAKS AND THE MOSCOW LINE"

I think most people who want to show the WikiLeaks/Snowden earlier connection want to prove that it was WikiLeaks who set him up to go to Moscow. That seems likely, but we don't have proof. Even so, when you take a person who started in Hong Kong, sort of plausibly reasoning that it had a history of free speech and was somewhat independent although that was over now with China taking it back from England, and then that person winds up in Moscow, which is so much less connected and free -- what's up?

I've always thought the following from the beginning..

The method isn't really about reform; it's about making the US retaliate, and then pointing to the harsher policies and claiming the US is no longer its liberal self, true to its ideas, and then working to discredit and undermine both America and its liberal ideas as false. It is not about wishing the best for the US, as much as Snowden thinks he can mouth this platitude and have us believe it.

I can't wait for these intrepid bloggers to connect all the dots.

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Response to Cha (Reply #33)

Fri Jul 19, 2013, 05:42 AM

34. To your last sentence,

It may be a while. People are too busy thinking up awards to give Snowden and fawning over portraits. No hero worship there!

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Response to flamingdem (Original post)

Fri Jul 19, 2013, 10:10 AM

36. Interesting.

In a few days, perhaps even tomorrow, the charms and dangers of the city will be available to Edward Snowden, who is about to receive a refugee ID, allowing him to roam freely the whole length and breadth of Russia and to socialise with its folk.

According to the piece below, Assange doesn't enjoy "refugee" status. Snowden would not be considered a "refugee." Makes sense, as it's likely why he can't leave the embassy.

Is Edward Snowden Protected By International Law?

The Huffington Post | By Carlo Davis

<...>

The Venezuelan asylum offer resembles the diplomatic asylum Ecuador granted to WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange, who has been living in the Ecuadorian embassy in London since June 2012....While Ecuador recognizes Assange as an asylum seeker, it did not give the WikiLeaks founder refugee status. Snowden's Venezuelan offer makes the same distinction. This is important, because if Snowden's Venezuelan asylum fell under UN refugee status, other signatories of the 1951 Convention would be bound, at the very least, not to return Snowden to the United States. That is not the case for asylum seekers.

<...>

SAFE PASSAGE

In addition, if Edward Snowden wants the same protection Assange enjoys, limited though it is, he will have to get himself to Venezuela or one of its embassies or consulates.

<...>

Snowden's lawyer announced on Tuesday that Snowden applied for temporary asylum in Russia. According to Professor Saul, the approval of temporary asylum could garner Snowden the travel documents necessary to fly to other countries, including Venezuela.

Even if Snowden can get a valid travel document, however, he may still have difficulty reaching Caracas. International law does not require countries to grant safe passage to domestic asylum candidates, and Spain, France and Portugal have already indicated they may refuse Snowden access to their airspace.

- more -

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/03/edward-snowden-international-law_n_3544679.html




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Response to ProSense (Reply #36)

Fri Jul 19, 2013, 10:20 AM

37. The refugee status sounds questionable

like a get out of jail free card. I read previously that Snowden would have to stay in a refugee detention center, guess not. He's being treated rather well over there.

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