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Fri Apr 26, 2013, 02:36 AM

A Neutral Look At Police Brutality









47 replies, 3517 views

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Arrow 47 replies Author Time Post
Reply A Neutral Look At Police Brutality (Original post)
MrScorpio Apr 2013 OP
graham4anything Apr 2013 #1
MrScorpio Apr 2013 #2
graham4anything Apr 2013 #3
MrScorpio Apr 2013 #6
graham4anything Apr 2013 #13
MrScorpio Apr 2013 #15
graham4anything Apr 2013 #17
MrScorpio Apr 2013 #18
Dyedinthewoolliberal Apr 2013 #28
SwampG8r Apr 2013 #12
RedRocco Apr 2013 #46
Logical Apr 2013 #40
tblue Apr 2013 #4
graham4anything Apr 2013 #5
EOTE Apr 2013 #21
graham4anything Apr 2013 #23
EOTE Apr 2013 #26
Earth_First Apr 2013 #45
Logical Apr 2013 #39
TheMadMonk Apr 2013 #7
AgainsttheCrown Apr 2013 #8
redgreenandblue Apr 2013 #10
redgreenandblue Apr 2013 #9
graham4anything Apr 2013 #47
AnotherMcIntosh Apr 2013 #11
graham4anything Apr 2013 #14
AnotherMcIntosh Apr 2013 #16
graham4anything Apr 2013 #19
EOTE Apr 2013 #20
graham4anything Apr 2013 #22
EOTE Apr 2013 #25
graham4anything Apr 2013 #29
EOTE Apr 2013 #31
Mariana Apr 2013 #24
Logical Apr 2013 #34
kudzu22 Apr 2013 #35
beevul Apr 2013 #38
sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #41
NCTraveler Apr 2013 #27
FarCenter Apr 2013 #30
MrScorpio Apr 2013 #32
FarCenter Apr 2013 #33
Logical Apr 2013 #36
sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #42
MrScorpio Apr 2013 #43
Comrade Grumpy Apr 2013 #44
Logical Apr 2013 #37

Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Fri Apr 26, 2013, 02:50 AM

1. According to that chart 93.4% of all policemen have a great record with ZERO complaints

 

but it takes the big ugly stats on top to find that stat below

What would be interesting is-
while good union workers like police officers are much maligned,
what are the comparitable stats in every other job?

Say Gun sellers with regard to staff and customers
Say Doctors with regard to staff and nurses
Say Lawyers with regard to staff and clients
Say Dentists
Say members of the Dallas Cowboys, both players and staff
Say Nascar racer stars with their staff and in after hours
Say Bartenders with regard to their staff and customers
Say people who work at Walmart
Say people who work at Target
Say people who work at Whole Foods
Say farmers
Say any other worker


it would take a chart like that to compare one against the others.

I bet NO group would get more than 93.4%.

Think about it.

93.4% of any staff having a spotless record, that to me is a very high number.
and most other jobs are not ones that the people working it have their life at stake every single minute of every single day.

This week was a reminder-weed out the few that are bad.And yes, there are bad, very bad.
But they are a very small minority.
But thank the others who are good union people doing a job most would not want to do.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #1)

Fri Apr 26, 2013, 03:05 AM

2. The problem comparing cops to any other occupations…

It's that none of those other people are empowered to stop, detain, arrest or even shoot you under the color of authority.

But cops ARE.

Plus, there are other things to consider as well. Almost 10% of city cops have had a complaint lodged against them for misconduct. Plus, if you're an ethnic minority, the likelihood of you being harassed by the police increases almost exponentially.

And a lot of nice, friendly cops that you're happily praising, many of them have stood idly by, or maybe even backed up other cops while they were committing some kind of misconduct and brutality.

What's the point of sugar coating any of this?

Spend some time on this site and see the other side, please: http://www.policemisconduct.net

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Response to MrScorpio (Reply #2)

Fri Apr 26, 2013, 03:17 AM

3. Get rid of the bad ones. The problem is-the bad police have guns(aka Dorner).

 

Bad police with guns are a threat to all.
And the very big majority of good cops, have to lay their life on the line, and a bad cop can cause the good cop to get killed.

It is the gun as bully(normal for a gun to be a bully).

And in some cases, it is the police chief training that causes the problem.

The other problem is steroids.
In NYC they found a pharmacy in Brooklyn was supplying illegally steroids.
That problem was taken care of.

Of course, police should be paid the same as a Quarterback on a football team.
And of course, racism comes in, as to who is hired. (Most bad cops are white.
And there is not proper training to deal with the people who they are trained to protect.

But that is a very small minority.

Again, the chart posted shows that 93.4% are good people.
and Doctors abusing their patients, or the nurses or their paid staff, are probably just as big or more abusive.
(and doctors with one wrong move can easily kill a patient- bad doctors are why malpractice rates are so high, and why health bills are so big. And the day of an American doctor working past 9 to 5 are abasically coming to an end, unlike in the past when they were on call 24/7/365. Yet they make more mistakes than ever.

So, show me charts of every other profession.

BTW-it said ONE murder. ONE.

Get rid of the bad ones, same as bicycle racing should demand all steroid uses should never be allowed to race(or baseball steroid users.)
One bad cop taints millions nationwide of good police officers doing their very hard job.

Boston's thrillkillhaterperps showed this too often ignored fact about how thankless a job it is, and how great a job they do.

And, they are good union workers

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #3)

Fri Apr 26, 2013, 03:39 AM

6. Is there a point to any of this?

Should we just downplay police misconduct, because 93.4% of cops are "good union workers?"

Lookee here, you're not going to get me to kiss the asses of all cops out there, just because you're being defensive about the subject of police misconduct and police brutality.

By the way, I know that ALL cops aren't bad… But the ones who are bad are dragging all the others down to their level.

Police misconduct, harassment and brutality are serious problems in this country.

You don't do a service to the good cops by sugar coating it.

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Response to MrScorpio (Reply #6)

Fri Apr 26, 2013, 07:18 AM

13. You don't do a service to good cops by not acknowledging they are 93.4%.

 

If you were around in the Woodstock days, remember something- LOVE

not all this hatred in the world.

LOVE is all you need

you don't tear down everything when the system works 93.4% of the time.
You attempt to get rid of the 6.6%

this tear it down, sorry, Boston showed it.

Remember another thing-
these same people when you have a flat tire around a winding bend in the world, will
stand behind you with their flashing lights on so someone doesn't wildly hit you because they are texting.

People texting in cars kill more weekly than a bad cop in 10 years.

As Bert Bacharach wrote "What the world needs now is love, sweet love, that's the only thing there is just too little of"

By the way, what really should be done is have more cameras, more eyes in the sky, more security, so that everyone is transparent. That way the bad 6.6% can't do it in silence.

And next time you see a good policeman-give him a thumb's up and say Thank You!

Remember, the big city police are good union workers. And they are you neighbors.
And your neighbors work jobs where there is at much or worse in those jobs.
From A to Z.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #13)

Fri Apr 26, 2013, 07:29 AM

15. Are you serious?

I'm having my doubts here.

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Response to MrScorpio (Reply #15)

Fri Apr 26, 2013, 07:46 AM

17. Boston showed what is wrong with the world. And it's hate.

 

Remember the spirit of the later 60s/70s.

Remember Woodstock. Remember the Moon Landing and walk.

And juxtapose it with the hate seen Monday morning and the love seen after capture.

Remember Peace Love and Rock and Roll.

Remember that yes, there are bad ones. But remember the others are not bad.
They are your neighbors.

Do you stand outside their personal house and shout hate at them?
If your house is being robbed, do you tell them, no get away, you don't like them?

BTW, if the police is all burned down, then what is left the day after?
Anarchy?
Stockpiling ones guns to protect thyself but not thy neighbor?(who might after all be a policeman).

What?

Boston showed what has been missing. LOVE

(yeah, it's corny isn't it, but it's true).

Time for hate is over.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #17)

Fri Apr 26, 2013, 07:49 AM

18. Whatever, dude

Have fun.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #13)

Fri Apr 26, 2013, 10:35 AM

28. They sy stem doesn't work 93.4% of the time

because we know that incidents are likely NOT being reported. Every single time anyone is pulled over/interacts with police, others should stop and either witness or record the encounter. In my city, a drunk was shot to death in what has to be an apparent over reaction to the situation. He got off.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #3)

Fri Apr 26, 2013, 06:26 AM

12. usually

i read what you post
shake my head and hope you are not allowed in public unsupervised
but this...
i could eat a bowl of alphabet soup and crap out a more cogent statement
"good union workers" do NOT escort scabs across picket lines
i wont even bother with you trying to twist numbers as poorly as you try to twist facts
if you are not now prescribed meds see someone
if they have been prescribed previously then start taking them again

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #3)

Sun Apr 28, 2013, 12:23 PM

46. the way I read it, 61% admit to being bad cops

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Response to MrScorpio (Reply #2)

Fri Apr 26, 2013, 12:55 PM

40. Ignore graham, seriously, his thought process never makes sense to most! n-t

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #1)

Fri Apr 26, 2013, 03:22 AM

4. Whole Foods employees don't

beat the shit out of people. Or screw up the rest of people's lives.

Come on.

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Response to tblue (Reply #4)

Fri Apr 26, 2013, 03:33 AM

5. Please show me the stats.

 

one cannot say this without providing the charts.

It is always easy to blame the police.

But those charts above prove 93.4% are not a problem.

Show me that 93.4% of every single person who works for other places is not the typical average.

Maybe if more people would salute the 93.4% who are good, it would inspire them to get rid of the small percentage of 6.6% who are not.

Same as in baseball, the ones not on steroids it would be logical would not want to be tainted with those that are.

Besides, in the food biz, it only takes one person not washing their hands after using the bathroom to infect 1000s and cause more deaths than the 1 it says above in the graphs.

Remember, Dorner was a bad cop (though he was fired) when he sent out his manefesto and went on a murderous fame seeking rampage wanting to be judge/jury/vigilante/executioner.

93.4% vs. 6.6%.
A baseball hitter is considered a success if he hits 320.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #5)

Fri Apr 26, 2013, 08:01 AM

21. It only says that if you know nothing about statistics.

And it's quite clear that you don't. It's almost impossible to interpret the numbers more wrongly than you have. You and numbers are not friends.

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Response to EOTE (Reply #21)

Fri Apr 26, 2013, 08:19 AM

23. I would rather have a policeman 100% of the time than a Zimmerman even once.

 

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #23)

Fri Apr 26, 2013, 10:05 AM

26. And with that kind of asinine logic, this country is utterly doomed.

I guess if you were raped by your dentist, you'd just thank your lucky stars that you weren't murdered by him as well. Hey, at least he used nitrous and bought me flowers. Please tell me you're actually Andy Kaufmann doing performance art.

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Response to EOTE (Reply #26)

Sun Apr 28, 2013, 10:48 AM

45. "Please tell me you're actually Andy Kaufmann doing performance art."



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Response to graham4anything (Reply #5)

Fri Apr 26, 2013, 12:52 PM

39. What is wrong with you? Baseball player? LOL, you playing with us?

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #1)

Fri Apr 26, 2013, 04:26 AM

7. Go back to school. Your knowledge of statistics is NON-EXISTENT.

 

And your reading comprehension is apparently as abysmal.

93.4% do not have a CURRENT complaint against them. NOT 93.4% have NEVER had a complaint made against them.

Beyond that, at least half of all cops have witnessed serious misconduct and turned a blind eye.

We're not talking mumping a bit of stationary, or filling up on the company fuel card.

We're talking rape, assault, grant theft, bribe taking, and more. ALL serious felonies.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #1)

Fri Apr 26, 2013, 04:26 AM

8. Sure that 93.4% are not being complained on...

But that number is meaningless when you look at the 61% who do not always report serious criminal violations by other officers, or the 52% who agreed that it is not unusual to turn a blind eye to improper conduct by fellow officers.


Overlooking those problems creates a culture where criminality eventually becomes accepted. Where the ends justify the means. Maybe you think that the tv show 'The Shield' represented a model agency with "good union people"...I would slightly disagree.


There are very serious problems in law enforcement and they shouldn't be overlooked because they're "good union people."

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Response to AgainsttheCrown (Reply #8)

Fri Apr 26, 2013, 04:43 AM

10. Also, it is *per year*.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #1)

Fri Apr 26, 2013, 04:41 AM

9. Actually, 93.4% is a pretty bad number.

It makes your chances of running into a bad cop at some point quite high.

Most likely, the number is way better for some of the professions you mentioned.

On edit: Also, this number is per year, not over the course of their careers. So actually that number is way bad.

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Response to redgreenandblue (Reply #9)

Sun Apr 28, 2013, 01:11 PM

47. Ever hear of the Top 100 I-Tunes songs?

 

Every week they have a top 100.
Next week, last week, next month, next year.
The number is always 100.

Sometimes songs drop off, jump on, etc.

Out of the 100 cops, 93.4 are good at any point.
.06 are not
Some are fired, some quit, some arrested. Some were charged but found innocent because the charge was a lie.

Therefore statistics show it is 93.4%

Simple math. I can understand though some not wanting that to be revealed.

Hug a cop. They do a hard job. Why not let's start living in love instead of hate.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #1)

Fri Apr 26, 2013, 05:56 AM

11. Wrong. The chart does not show "93.4% of all policemen have a great record with ZERO complaints"

 

But you already knew that, didn't you?

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Response to AnotherMcIntosh (Reply #11)

Fri Apr 26, 2013, 07:24 AM

14. Remember-if 90% of someone with a bad cancer die, 10% live.

 

doesn't matter which year.

not to forget also-just because someone is charged, doesn't mean they are guilty.

Look at OJ. He was charged, and then found innocent of all charges.

So, what are the ratios for football running backs? College Basketball coach? College Rugby teams?

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #14)

Fri Apr 26, 2013, 07:41 AM

16. Wrong. You falsely equated the stats for the pool of cops for one year with all cops.

 

That's a false equivalency.

Even you should know that.

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Response to AnotherMcIntosh (Reply #16)

Fri Apr 26, 2013, 07:56 AM

19. No, it is not.

 

Because you are forgetting that every year new cadets move up, and others leave.

So every year the number would remain constant.

If a batter hits .320 .280 .260 over 3 years, their average is .280.
Doesn't mean one year they are .750.

I am not the one distorting the stats. And i am a stat person.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #1)

Fri Apr 26, 2013, 07:59 AM

20. Yeah, 93% are just fine and dandy.

Especially considering the abysmal discipline record that police are subjected to. It's a good thing that law enforcement has obedient little bootlickers like yourself to defend them. Otherwise, the bad apples which make up 99% or so of police officers might give the others a bad name.

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Response to EOTE (Reply #20)

Fri Apr 26, 2013, 08:18 AM

22. I would rather have a policeman than a Zimmerman 100% of the time.

 

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #22)

Fri Apr 26, 2013, 10:03 AM

25. What a fantastic standard you've got there!

You'd prefer a policeman to a cold blooded murderer. So would I, unless that policeman is an even colder blooded murderer. We definitely don't have to worry about a police state when our electorate is as informed and has as high standards as you

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Response to EOTE (Reply #25)

Fri Apr 26, 2013, 10:36 AM

29. Stereotyping all policemen as a single unit is like stereotyping any race or religion

 

Which is how conspiracy theories and hatred to a group festers and becomes more.

Remember cold blooded fameseeker man and friend on a mission because of a loony conspiracy theory killed many children and adults in Oklahoma City.
One person did the same in the Conn. School ( abbreviate it that way because CT equals conspiracy theorist/theory).

Let's say one has three neighbors across the street (assuming there are streets, otherwise say Ranches, or whatever), and all three are police.
Would one automatically hate all 3?
Say, if one likes to watch something and they had a 57inch plasma tv and all the refreshments one could think of (but nothing larger than 24 ounces, as 48 ounces is not needed), would one refuse the invitation?

And if ones house was burning, would one not call the police and fire department to put it out?

What if the person likes the job, should they be denied their freedom of choice(first amendment) of where to work or assemble?

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #29)

Fri Apr 26, 2013, 10:53 AM

31. Your posts are becoming more and more of a befuddled mess.

I don't hate anybody without reason. I don't hate police officers in general, but in spite of me being a (mostly) law-abiding citizen, most of my experiences with cops have been bad ones. Then when I see the type of shit that they get away with the great bulk of the time, I understand why people distrust cops here. No other people of any race or religion have the ability to fuck up my week or month like a rotten cop does. Would I deny a person their freedom of choice to choose a job? That you'd even ask this question shows that you're not really understanding things. You need to think a little before posting.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #1)

Fri Apr 26, 2013, 09:40 AM

24. No it doesn't say that 93.4% "have a great record with ZERO complaints".

It's 6.6% in any given year that receive complaints. An officer who got a complaint LAST year but doesn't get one THIS year will not be one of the 6.6% for this year.

It would be useful to know what percentage of officers receive complaints (and how many they receive) over a longer period of time.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #1)

Fri Apr 26, 2013, 12:38 PM

34. LOL, what percent would make you upset? n-t

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #1)

Fri Apr 26, 2013, 12:40 PM

35. Bad cops are worse than bad citizens

Because bad citizens don't have the power of the state backing them up.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #1)

Fri Apr 26, 2013, 12:49 PM

38. You should talk to Adrian Schoolcraft, I think.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #1)

Fri Apr 26, 2013, 12:58 PM

41. 79% of them don't like our Constitutional System of Justice.

That's quite a statement from our 'civilian' police

10,000 complaints against the Chicago PD and only 19 resulted in any kind of meaningful response.

And since such a high % of them admit to seeing abuse by other officers but fail to report the incidents, we can't really say how many complaints there would be if all bad behavior was reported.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Fri Apr 26, 2013, 10:13 AM

27. The problem as I see it.

All too often the bad apples are protected by their own. With the amount of power given to law enforcement, the rules must be enforced strictly. All across the country law enforcement has rules to appropriately deal with the bad apples. But protection for those individuals is often taken to the extreme. I would like to see, at the state or federal level, an agency set up to review all of the complaints brought against officers. The body would also be charged with administering disciplinary actions. A completely separate entity than the law enforcement agencies themselves. They would review ALL complaints and have FULL power to investigate, interview all parties, judge, and discipline.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Fri Apr 26, 2013, 10:41 AM

30. What percent of the population file a complaint against a police officer per year? ever?

NYC CCRB received 5,763 complaints in 2012. The CCRB completed 1,279 full investigations and substantiated at least one allegation in 189 complaints.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/ccrb/html/faq.html

5763 complaints out of a daytime population of 8.5 million would be 0.0678%.

189 substantiated complaints out of a daytime population of 8.5 million would be 0.0022%.

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Response to FarCenter (Reply #30)

Fri Apr 26, 2013, 11:09 AM

32. 5,763 complaints on an NYPD membership size of 34,500

Last edited Fri Apr 26, 2013, 12:54 PM - Edit history (1)

That's a single complaint for just under every six cops.

And with a substantiated complaint percentage of 0.0022%, it's pretty clear that the NYPD thinks that it can operate with complete impunity.

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Response to MrScorpio (Reply #32)

Fri Apr 26, 2013, 12:33 PM

33. Considering their frequent contact with anti-social behaviors, it is an astonishingly low rate

They are dealing with criminals, drunks, people on drugs, people in fights, domestic disturbances, mentally ill patients, and general uncooperative individuals.

People with a positive, compliant attitude that respond to police instructions when asked, will very rarely have a problem with police.

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Response to FarCenter (Reply #33)

Fri Apr 26, 2013, 12:40 PM

36. Let me know how many citizens being abused is ok with you! n-t

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Response to FarCenter (Reply #33)

Fri Apr 26, 2013, 01:05 PM

42. 'compliant' attitude? They are our employees. If eg, you are a minority in NY and you are

frequently harassed simply because you ARE a minority (have you read the details on the scandalous 'stop and frisk' program?) yes, you BETTER be 'compliant' even though you have done nothing wrong. Because if you are not, you will be hauled away and false charges will be filed against you, and you may be beaten up in the process.

Mothers warn their young, African American sons to say nothing when approached by a cop. Not to even deny anything, no matter how wrong the accusation may be. They are also subject to having drugs planted on them according to the investigations conducted by private citizens and finally given some attention by the authorities.

Hundreds of thousands of 'stops' of minorities every year with no 'probable cause' has been sanctioned by the NYPD for years.

So yes, I guess you do what anyone living in a state where you have no rights, where to stand up for your rights can you get you beaten or falsely charged with a crime, the best thing to do is be 'compliant' and hope that this will save you from police brutality and/or false arrest.

How sad that a large section of the population has had to live that way for so long.

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Response to FarCenter (Reply #33)

Fri Apr 26, 2013, 01:24 PM

43. Well, perhaps you haven't caught on to the fact that the NYPD harasses citizens routinely…

In poor and minority communities with both its "Safe Hallways" and "Stop and Frisk" programs. The vast majority of these individuals, having committed NO CRIME whatsoever. As a matter of fact, there have been so many citizens cited for trumped charges that the courts have been throwing them out at a higher rate today than every before.

Really, what kind of attitude would a person realistically take if they find themselves, time and time again, stopped, harassed and searched by the police, just for merely being out in public? What if the police goes out it way to incite a reaction for the people that they're harassing, just so they can find some reason to arrest them? What would you say about police officers who are rude, abusive and violent to the people that they are stopping and frisking on a routine basis?

Would you like these citizens to merely smile and be compliant as their civil rights are violated by the police?

If you don't believe any of what I've just stated, I can direct to you examples of police behavior, by both the citizens who and been harassed for no good reason AND interviews with both current and former NYPD officers who have stated the same.

And one other thing, the NYPD ALSO goes out of its way to avoid investigating actual crimes. God forbid that you're robbed or burgled, or even assaulted in NYC and the police refuses to investigate a crime that you're a victim of.

All-in-all, this is nothing more than a numbers game that the NYC is playing. They're preying on the poor and minorities to raise their statistics and avoiding investigations of minor crimes to do the same.

Frankly, it sounds like you'd rather have NYC operate as a police state. It's a laughably naive opinion you have of how law enforcement operates in NYC, it just so happens to be one that's not too terrible informed.

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Response to FarCenter (Reply #33)

Fri Apr 26, 2013, 01:28 PM

44. Anti-social behaviors like walking down the street being the wrong color.

600,000 stop and frisks last year.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Fri Apr 26, 2013, 12:46 PM

37. The police union is not a real union....

No real union would tolerate the union worker beating up the person paying their salary! Cops protect bad cops. Period!
The cops are put up on a pedestal in this country! People trust them too much.
They get away with way too much abuse!

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