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Tue Apr 16, 2013, 07:13 PM

I will not apologize for suspecting those who advocate violence might be guilty of violence

"I'll give you my gun when you pry it from my cold, dead hands"
-Former NRA President Charlton Heston


"Now if the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms comes to disarm you and they are bearing arms, resist them with arms. Go for a head shot; they're going to be wearing bulletproof vests." … "They've got a big target on there, ATF. Don't shoot at that, because they've got a vest on underneath that. Head shots, head shots.... Kill the sons of bitches."
-Right-wing radio host G. Gordon Liddy


"“Obama, he’s a piece of sh**. I told him to suck on my machine gun." "Hey Hillary, You might want to ride one of these into the sunset, you worthless bitch.”
-NRA Board Member Ted Nugent who was waving an assault rifle in the air as he spoke these words


These quotes represent just three of the many pieces of violent rhetoric that has come from the right-wing in recent years. The people who said these disgusting things were not just random right-wingers, they are people who were given giant microphones by the far right.

The right-wing leaders who uttered these disgusting words were not held accountable, G. Gordon Liddy continued to host his radio show, Charlton Heston's "cold dead hands" line was not only cheered by his supporters but was printed onto bumper stickers by the NRA, and Ted Nugent has continued to be reelected to the NRA Board of Directors and provided a microphone to make other violent threats.

Yesterday a tragedy struck in Boston, it happened on Tax Day just a short distance from the site of the original Boston Tea Party. As of right now we don't know exactly who set off the bombs in Boston, but it is certainly not a stretch to see the symbolism of Tax Day and suspect that it might be right-wing extremists who carried this attack out.

Now people tell me that we should wait for the facts to come in before we voice our suspicions, but I feel that we have been seeing the facts for far too long and I can not pretend that these facts do not exist. They may not be facts that point to a specific individual, but they are facts that do raise a lot of suspicions.

The fact is that we have heard far too much of the "from my cold dead hands" rhetoric, we have seen far too many nutty right-wingers tell us that they need an arsenal of guns to protect themselves from the government. They have made no secret of the fact that they dream of using their guns to violently overthrow the government, they want us to think that their guns are needed to protect us from government tyranny. Of course in their world tyranny means allowing gay people to get married and providing health care to poor people.

When I hear violent rhetoric I suspect that at least some of the people pushing that rhetoric are violent people themselves, and when a Tax Day attack happens they are going to be the first people I suspect. The reason I suspect them is based on their behavior, if they did not promote violence I would not suspect them no matter how much I disagreed with them. I disagree with nearly all Republicans, but the vast majority of Republicans I would never suspect of committing a violent act such as this one. There is a small group of them however that does seem extremely dangerous to me, the people who embrace Ted Nugent's violent rhetoric are the type of people who I believe are likely to be violent themselves.

In recent months we have seen right-wingers openly carrying assault rifles into State Capitol buildings in places like Oregon and Washington in order to intimidate law makers who are working pass gun legislation. We have seen the legislators who have introduced gun control bills sent numerous death threats. This is real and it is happening right now, I can't sit and pretend that this sort of violent rhetoric does not make me suspicious.

Maybe in the end I will be proven wrong, maybe it won't be a teabagger that gets arrested maybe it will just be some crazed teenager who was had a sick idea that he thought it would be fun to unleash chaos. Even if I am wrong however I will not apologize for being suspicious because it is the violent rhetoric of a certain group of people that made me suspicious of them, and if a person chooses to speak that violent rhetoric it is their own fault when the finger gets pointed at them when something happens.

The people who promote violence are not innocent, even if they did not have a direct role in planting these bombs they are still responsible for promoting acts of violence and terrorism.

I suspect this bombing was committed by a right-winger who is a fan of the sort of violent rhetoric that I posted at the top of this post. I am not going to make any apologies for voicing my suspicions before all the facts are in because there are more than enough facts to say that a certain group of people have acted in a way that has caused people to be legitimately suspicious of them. If they don't want people suspecting them of violence then they need to stop promoting violence.

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Reply I will not apologize for suspecting those who advocate violence might be guilty of violence (Original post)
Bjorn Against Apr 2013 OP
elleng Apr 2013 #1
Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #2
Bjorn Against Apr 2013 #5
Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #10
2ndAmForComputers Apr 2013 #18
Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #20
Bjorn Against Apr 2013 #23
Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #31
2ndAmForComputers Apr 2013 #37
Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #42
2ndAmForComputers Apr 2013 #44
Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #47
2ndAmForComputers Apr 2013 #50
Maraya1969 Apr 2013 #108
Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #109
Maraya1969 Apr 2013 #111
Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #112
Maraya1969 Apr 2013 #115
Maraya1969 Apr 2013 #110
Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #113
Maraya1969 Apr 2013 #116
Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #117
Maraya1969 Apr 2013 #124
onenote Apr 2013 #121
Ikonoklast Apr 2013 #56
Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #60
Ikonoklast Apr 2013 #64
Crabby Appleton Apr 2013 #81
WinkyDink Apr 2013 #93
Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #94
Tumbulu Apr 2013 #118
840high Apr 2013 #57
Bjorn Against Apr 2013 #61
freshwest Apr 2013 #107
kardonb Apr 2013 #88
2ndAmForComputers Apr 2013 #7
Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #12
2ndAmForComputers Apr 2013 #14
Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #15
2ndAmForComputers Apr 2013 #22
Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #28
2ndAmForComputers Apr 2013 #33
Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #40
2ndAmForComputers Apr 2013 #46
Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #49
2ndAmForComputers Apr 2013 #54
Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #58
ohheckyeah Apr 2013 #119
noiretextatique Apr 2013 #126
kestrel91316 Apr 2013 #39
backscatter712 Apr 2013 #86
cartach Apr 2013 #100
Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #101
Horse with no Name Apr 2013 #3
Bully Taw Apr 2013 #74
pintobean Apr 2013 #4
Bjorn Against Apr 2013 #9
pintobean Apr 2013 #16
Bjorn Against Apr 2013 #30
leftynyc Apr 2013 #122
99th_Monkey Apr 2013 #6
Lint Head Apr 2013 #8
mwrguy Apr 2013 #27
baldguy Apr 2013 #11
Llewlladdwr Apr 2013 #13
pinboy3niner Apr 2013 #19
Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #21
Bjorn Against Apr 2013 #32
Nye Bevan Apr 2013 #17
Llewlladdwr Apr 2013 #24
jessie04 Apr 2013 #26
Bjorn Against Apr 2013 #36
Llewlladdwr Apr 2013 #63
Bjorn Against Apr 2013 #67
Llewlladdwr Apr 2013 #73
Bjorn Against Apr 2013 #75
Llewlladdwr Apr 2013 #78
Bjorn Against Apr 2013 #83
Llewlladdwr Apr 2013 #87
apocalypsehow Apr 2013 #25
Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #29
apocalypsehow Apr 2013 #34
Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #41
apocalypsehow Apr 2013 #45
derby378 Apr 2013 #35
apocalypsehow Apr 2013 #38
kestrel91316 Apr 2013 #48
Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #53
kestrel91316 Apr 2013 #65
Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #68
kestrel91316 Apr 2013 #85
Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #95
apocalypsehow Apr 2013 #59
Llewlladdwr Apr 2013 #51
firenewt Apr 2013 #52
quinnox Apr 2013 #43
patrice Apr 2013 #55
Tumbulu Apr 2013 #62
Name removed Apr 2013 #66
2ndAmForComputers Apr 2013 #69
RetroLounge Apr 2013 #70
apocalypsehow Apr 2013 #72
Bjorn Against Apr 2013 #71
MH1 Apr 2013 #77
humbled_opinion Apr 2013 #76
MH1 Apr 2013 #82
humbled_opinion Apr 2013 #92
Douglas Carpenter Apr 2013 #79
RZM Apr 2013 #80
backscatter712 Apr 2013 #89
dothemath Apr 2013 #84
Initech Apr 2013 #97
DonCoquixote Apr 2013 #90
Bjorn Against Apr 2013 #120
bowens43 Apr 2013 #91
Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #96
Llewlladdwr Apr 2013 #98
LineLineNew Reply .
Hassin Bin Sober Apr 2013 #106
leftynyc Apr 2013 #123
bobclark86 Apr 2013 #99
Bjorn Against Apr 2013 #105
backscatter712 Apr 2013 #102
ReRe Apr 2013 #103
meanit Apr 2013 #104
Bully Taw Apr 2013 #131
VOX Apr 2013 #114
deutsey Apr 2013 #125
Nye Bevan Apr 2013 #127
TimberValley Apr 2013 #128
Macoy51 Apr 2013 #129
Bully Taw Apr 2013 #130

Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 07:18 PM

1. No need to apologize;

we're surrounded by it.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 07:20 PM

2. You should apologize. And you should feel bad.

You know what the country doesn't need more of? Reactionaries.

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Response to Gravitycollapse (Reply #2)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 07:25 PM

5. What is reactionary about suspecting people who promote violence?

There are a small group of right-wingers who do promote violence regularly, when people promote violence they invite suspicions. If they don't want me to be suspicious of them they can stop the violent rhetoric, they can say things I disagree with all they want but once they start advocating violence they invite my suspicion.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Reply #5)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 07:28 PM

10. They invite your suspicion because you want them to be the ones who did this.

Not because you have any higher understanding of the situation.

Let's not BS each other.

You no more have evidence that this attack was carried out by American right-wing extremists than right-wingers have that the attack was carried out by militant Islamists. Both groups promote violence. So according to your logic, both groups are equally suspicious.

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Response to Gravitycollapse (Reply #10)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 07:33 PM

18. Your vehemence is odd and curious.

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Response to 2ndAmForComputers (Reply #18)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 07:34 PM

20. My "vehemence" stems from my impatience with disingenuous politicking in the OP.

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Response to Gravitycollapse (Reply #10)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 07:37 PM

23. They are not equally suspicious in every case

There have been attacks by Islamic Militants before certainly, but this attack happened on Tax Day not far from the site of the Boston Tea Party. Why would Al Qaeda target Boston on Tax Day?

I don't suspect right-wingers of most of the acts of violence that happen in America, but a Tax Day bombing in Boston seems to send the message they would want to send.

And by the way I don't want anyone to be the ones who did this, this is not about want. This is about a group of people who have invited suspicions on themselves because of their own actions.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Reply #23)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 07:47 PM

31. We bomb their cities and kill their people. They have at least enough motivation.

Yet you automatically target your political enemies. Not because you have any greater evidence for such a suspicion but because you want them to be the ones who have done this.

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Response to Gravitycollapse (Reply #31)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 07:54 PM

37. I do consider Islamic terrorists suspects too. The style doesn't quite match, but who knows.

Your issue seems to be including domestic right-wingers in the lists of suspects AT ALL. Why?

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Response to 2ndAmForComputers (Reply #37)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 07:59 PM

42. Because "suspicion" is a dangerous word to throw around.

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Response to Gravitycollapse (Reply #42)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 08:00 PM

44. What, will it explode or something?

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Response to 2ndAmForComputers (Reply #44)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 08:02 PM

47. Words as weapons. Suspicion is violent rhetoric.

And it is reflective of the very ideology of which the OP is "suspicious."

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Response to Gravitycollapse (Reply #47)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 08:03 PM

50. Please elaborate. What bad consequence will happen as a results of somebody publicly saying

"I suspects the culprits of this attack may be right-wingers?"

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Response to Gravitycollapse (Reply #31)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 10:52 PM

108. Islamist Militants routinely use hydrogen peroxide bombs. This was a pressure cooker bomb.

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Response to Maraya1969 (Reply #108)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 10:55 PM

109. I'm not actually accusing Islamist militants of this attack.

I'm giving an example of how the violence of one's rhetoric does not increase the possibility of one's guilt for a disassociated crime.

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Response to Gravitycollapse (Reply #109)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 11:01 PM

111. Wait now. Let's apply what you just said to the people who kill abortion providers and the ones who

are outspoken about their desire for these people's deaths. In that case their violent rhetoric absolutely has a direct link to their behaviors. Why are you so adverse to use such tactics in this case?


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Response to Maraya1969 (Reply #111)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 11:04 PM

112. So when we find right-wing extremists who said we should bomb the Boston Marathon...

Then we can apply some legitimate suspicion.

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Response to Gravitycollapse (Reply #112)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 11:28 PM

115. Just like the abortion place bombers don't make their plans out in the open neither did the people

who bombed Boston. But there is an entire group who rail against taxes and even have their name attached to one of the clues here. The TEA party.

Yes I am willing to bet that the group or person responsible for this is at least sympathetic with the tea party.

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Response to Gravitycollapse (Reply #31)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 10:56 PM

110. Yes there is evidence that this is a home grown right winged anti-tax group or person.

Just look at the facts.

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Response to Maraya1969 (Reply #110)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 11:05 PM

113. Which facts are you referring to?

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Response to Gravitycollapse (Reply #113)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 11:40 PM

116. It was done in Boston. On Patriot's Day - a day to celebrate The begining of the revolutionary war

which was started because of taxes levied on to Americans by the British. The Boston Tea party, (which happened very near to where the bombs went off) was a part of the rebellion by "revolutionaries" fighting against taxation, (without representation which the tea part of today fails to remember).

The radical right wings cries have been about taxes. Extremist Muslim militants don't give a rat's behind about us paying taxes and in fact they are probably happy that we have to pay them.

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Response to Maraya1969 (Reply #116)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 11:46 PM

117. So Tea Partiers blew up a group of marathon spectators to protest taxes...

That's some watertight logic.

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Response to Gravitycollapse (Reply #117)

Wed Apr 17, 2013, 08:36 AM

124. Way to throw in a strawman in order to ignore the facts.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Reply #23)

Wed Apr 17, 2013, 07:58 AM

121. Why target the marathon?

Because its a large gathering of people with limited security.

Many groups of all stripes advocate violence. Suspecting any one of them over any other one of them at this point is simply a reflection of non-critical thinking.

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Response to Gravitycollapse (Reply #10)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 08:06 PM

56. Militant Islamic terror organizations immediately claim credit for their acts of terror.

They want the world to know that they did what they did.

Not one of them has come forth to claim this as one of their operations.



This was a home-grown Right Wing anti-government Teabagger type, bet on it.

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Response to Ikonoklast (Reply #56)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 08:10 PM

60. It's been 24 hours. You know nothing.

Any bet placed on your part is ill advised.

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Response to Gravitycollapse (Reply #60)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 08:19 PM

64. I'll do as I please, I don't seek or need your permission.

You seem upset that it just might be a home-grown Right Wing Teabagger that committed this act of terror, I guess the fact that most terror acts in this country are committed by people that fit that profile must be lost on you.


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Response to Ikonoklast (Reply #64)


Response to Gravitycollapse (Reply #60)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 09:24 PM

93. Why don't YOU STHU?

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #93)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 09:30 PM

94. No?

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Response to Ikonoklast (Reply #56)

Wed Apr 17, 2013, 12:42 AM

118. I'm with you, seems pretty obvious nt

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Response to Bjorn Against (Reply #5)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 08:08 PM

57. They are not the

only ones advocating violence. Knock yourself out.

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Response to 840high (Reply #57)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 08:13 PM

61. No they are not the only ones, but they are advocating violence

I have heard violent rhetoric from my own side on a small number of occasions on this site and I have always alerted it, every one of my alerts on violent rhetoric has been hidden.

I don't automatically associate most crime with right-wing politics, but a bombing on Tax Day in Boston? That looks like right-wing terrorism to me.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Reply #61)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 10:46 PM

107. What if it was merely because it was a large crowd?

I only consider the mindset. Lone gunman, wingnut of any flavor, they are sociopaths and no amount of reasoning or ideology justifies the action. It's just their cover for being a killer. That could be anyone.

I am biased against the right for their continual hatred and calls for violence. I'll freely admit it. And it won't bother them since because it works well.

They practice intimidation and flaunt it online and offline. Their flaunting of the danger they represent, and mockery of calls for restraint makes them a target of suspicion 24/7. They want that.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Reply #5)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 09:13 PM

88. reactionary

I am all for " free speech " , but when it threatens other people with violence , it should be punished as hate speech and inciting to violence .

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Response to Gravitycollapse (Reply #2)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 07:26 PM

7. Who's a reactionary?

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Response to 2ndAmForComputers (Reply #7)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 07:29 PM

12. Anybody who thinks they know who committed this attack with zero evidence.

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Response to Gravitycollapse (Reply #12)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 07:31 PM

14. "Thinks they know" and "suspects" are NOT the same thing, you know that, don't you?

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Response to 2ndAmForComputers (Reply #14)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 07:32 PM

15. What is the difference, if you don't mind?

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Response to Gravitycollapse (Reply #15)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 07:36 PM

22. You DON'T know the difference? OK, I'll explain it to you verrrry slowly.

"Suspects" is when you think it's more probable it was X, but it may have been Y or Z.

"Think they know" is when you think it was X and there's no way it was anything else.

Was that clear enough or do I have to make a drawing?

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Response to 2ndAmForComputers (Reply #22)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 07:44 PM

28. No, the OP suspects that right-wingers did this.

In other words, his conclusion is that he thinks it was right-wingers, but that he might be wrong.

And, even then, he won't apologize because, well, he doesn't like the people he accused of murder, so fuck them.

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Response to Gravitycollapse (Reply #28)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 07:49 PM

33. Well, YES! Exactly! He DOES believe he might be wrong! Isn't that what rational people do?

Should he not have the stated suspicion in the first place? Are there NO grounds for such suspicion?

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Response to 2ndAmForComputers (Reply #33)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 07:58 PM

40. No, he should not have stated supicion. You've finally figured out my point.

You seem to consider "suspicion" as some sort of benign topic. It is not benign. Suspicious has a dangerous historical significance.

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Response to Gravitycollapse (Reply #40)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 08:01 PM

46. What are you afraid of?

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Response to 2ndAmForComputers (Reply #46)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 08:03 PM

49. I'm afraid we are becoming that which we hate the most.

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Response to Gravitycollapse (Reply #49)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 08:06 PM

54. Spare me the meaningless platitudes. What are you afraid of?

That the evil, powerful liberals are going to organize a pogrom on the poor, oppressed, downtrodden White Christian Conservatives?

Get back to me after reading this: http://www.timwise.org/2013/04/terrorism-and-privilege-understanding-the-power-of-whiteness

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Response to 2ndAmForComputers (Reply #54)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 08:08 PM

58. I am afraid we are giving into to the very vitriol and self-assuredness that the right practices.

And this OP is an apparent example of just such a fear.

It's been 24 hours. The government is still investigating and does not know who did this. We should act accordingly; with a passion towards finding those responsible but mature reservation toward blaming any potentially innocent group without an abundance of evidence.

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Response to Gravitycollapse (Reply #58)

Wed Apr 17, 2013, 01:09 AM

119. What's with the we?

The OP didn't say "Gravitycollapse and I are suspicious." There is no we. Bjorn Against speaks for himself/herself, not for anyone else. So, how did it become we?

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Response to Gravitycollapse (Reply #58)

Wed Apr 17, 2013, 05:25 PM

126. it's not exactly rocket science: we have rw terrorists in this country

who have committed acts of terrorism before. i sure as hell consider them prime suspects in this bombing.

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Response to Gravitycollapse (Reply #2)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 07:57 PM

39. He's right; you're wrong. He owes no one an apology, least of all the RW fascists

who call for killing all liberals.

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Response to Gravitycollapse (Reply #2)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 09:05 PM

86. Your concern is noted. n/t

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Response to Gravitycollapse (Reply #2)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 09:52 PM

100. You would have us lulled

into complacency even in the face of a disaster such as happened in Boston. You would have us pay no attention,ignore the obvious,and write off the hateful rhetoric of the right wing lunatics among us. And at what cost? To let our guard down? This should be talked up as much as possible among concerned citizens as to do otherwise is to ignore our responsibility to try to keep ourselves and our families safe. The main suspects are those treasonous bastards from the right wing,they've already advertised what they want to do and it isn't as if they are unjustly being picked out of the air. I ask - could you be one of them,spreading your propaganda?

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Response to cartach (Reply #100)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 09:53 PM

101. Is that the best you can do? Accuse me of supporting right-wing extremists?

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 07:20 PM

3. I agree and I don't want to be politically correct

These ratfuckers are violent and like to blow shit up.

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Response to Horse with no Name (Reply #3)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 08:36 PM

74. Are you talking about

 

islamic extremists or right wing nuts? Or both?

I think you can easily accuse both of this, but without proof, all you have is an accusation, anger and hate. Is that helpful? It feels good, though, right? Accuse someone we already hate, hope we are right and hate them more.

Whether its Islamics or RWNs, it may be better to wait until all the facts come out.

I think it is a Yankee fan, but that is just because that is who stirs anger and hatred in me.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 07:24 PM

4. I don't suspect Charlton Heston. nt

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Response to pintobean (Reply #4)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 07:27 PM

9. I suspect the people that he got to cheer him

I am not suggesting any of the three I quoted actually planted the bomb, obviously Charlton Heston could not have done it. One of the people who put the NRA bumper sticker with his quote on their car would be a more likely suspect.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Reply #9)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 07:32 PM

16. I think it's foolish to speculate at this point.

Who do you suspect of sending ricin to a repub senator, the same crowd?

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Response to pintobean (Reply #16)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 07:45 PM

30. Depends on the facts of the case

It is not like I automatically assume a right-winger is responsible for every crime, the vast majority of crimes I don't associate with politics in any way at all. A bombing of Boston on Tax Day however? That makes me suspicious of one certain group of people.

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Response to pintobean (Reply #16)

Wed Apr 17, 2013, 08:24 AM

122. The senator targeted

voted against the fillibuster on gun control. The right wingers in MS couldn't have been happy about that. That said, I have no idea who sent him the ricin.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 07:25 PM

6. Which is one of the main reasons that non-violent resistance is ultimately the only way out

of this endless cycle of violence begetting more violence; which is why the
drone program is so wrong, as it's creating new "terrorists" faster than it's
eliminating them. This bloodlust a psychic virus, that could all-too-easily go
viral; which is why some are predicting a new civil war in the US.

Not that I think that will happen, nor do I want it to; but just sayin' what's in
the air.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 07:27 PM

8. The NRA made it impossible to trace ingredients used in explosives.

Wayne La Piss Ant interprets the 2nd Amendment meaning of the word 'arms' to include explosives.

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Response to Lint Head (Reply #8)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 07:42 PM

27. Not really true

According to what I found elsewhere on DU

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022687031

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 07:29 PM

11. Add anyone who talks about "second amendment solutions" when they lose elections.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 07:30 PM

13. So, regardless of who is found to be behind this...

...you have your scapegoat picked out, aren't ashamed to proclaim it and have no intention of retracting your accusations even if wrong.

Awesome....

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Response to Llewlladdwr (Reply #13)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 07:33 PM

19. "Round up the usual suspects..."

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Response to pinboy3niner (Reply #19)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 07:35 PM

21. I love your sig.

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Response to Llewlladdwr (Reply #13)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 07:47 PM

32. I never said I won't retract, I said I won't apologize.

If I am wrong I will admit I was wrong, but I am not going to apologize for suspecting a group whose own actions gave me reason to suspect them.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 07:32 PM

17. Is it OK for people to suspect groups that have declared a Jihad against the Great Satan,

and who believe that perpetrators of said acts will be rewarded with 72 virgins in the afterlife?

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #17)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 07:39 PM

24. Oh no, that's straight out. nt

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #17)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 07:42 PM

26. I guess you're afraid to say...

 

Islamic terrorism??

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #17)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 07:50 PM

36. In a number of situations I would suspect them

When I think of who would be more likely to target Boston on Tax Day however I see that as a far more likely teabagger target than an Al Qaeda target.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Reply #36)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 08:19 PM

63. Did you know the 1936 Arab Revolt in Palestine began on April 15th?

Or that April 15, 1920 was the day the robbery that lead to the arrest and execution of Ferdinando Sacco and Bartolomeo Vanzetti occurred?

Or that April 15, 1900 was the first day of the Siege of Catubig during the Philippine-American war?

Or even that Suleiman II, Sultan of the Ottoman Empire was born on April 15, 1642?

April 15 means a lot of different things to different people....

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Response to Llewlladdwr (Reply #63)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 08:22 PM

67. But one group in particular associates themselves with the site of the Boston Tea Party

And it is not Al Qaeda.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Reply #67)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 08:34 PM

73. However, Al-Qaeda has issued threats against sporting events before.

In 2010 Al-Qaeda affiliate 313 Brigade issued specific threats against sporting events being held in India.

Abu Musab al-Suri, an Al-Qaeda strategist, has also listed sporting events as potential targets of terror attacks in his writings.

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Response to Llewlladdwr (Reply #73)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 08:39 PM

75. I won't deny a small chance that it might be Al Qaeda

That does not mean that I am going to pretend that a Boston Tax Day bombing is equally likely to have been committed by Al Qaeda, I believe it is far more likely that a right-wing teabagger is responsible.

If the evidence later shows I am wrong I will admit I was wrong, but a few right-wing nuts have given me good reason to be suspicious of them.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Reply #75)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 08:55 PM

78. Perhaps it was Anarchists?

They have a long history of throwing bombs. Maybe this attack was made by an Anarchist upset about Massachusetts' trial and execution of Sacco and Vanzetti?

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Response to Llewlladdwr (Reply #78)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 09:00 PM

83. What if it was the Easter Bunny?

You never know he could be pissed that Easter is over and everyone forgot about him.

Anything is possible, but that does not mean that the violent rhetoric of a few on the extreme right does not give me good reason to be suspicious of them.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Reply #83)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 09:09 PM

87. But no good reason to be suspicious of any Islamist groups that have threatened violence...

...against the US? No good reason to be suspicious of any militant jihadi group that's declared war on The Great Satan?

Just a great opportunity to smear your *political* opponents.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 07:41 PM

25. Notice DU's resident NRA defenders have swarmed your thread posting right-wing talking points, but

you are spot-on! Kick, Rec.

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Response to apocalypsehow (Reply #25)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 07:45 PM

29. Am I a resident NRA defender? Or are you merely attempting to marginalize dissent?

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Response to Gravitycollapse (Reply #29)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 07:49 PM

34. You're not really fooling anyone, know it? n/t.

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Response to apocalypsehow (Reply #34)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 07:58 PM

41. In what way am I trying to fool people?

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Response to Gravitycollapse (Reply #41)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 08:01 PM

45. That's funny, there.

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Response to Gravitycollapse (Reply #29)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 07:50 PM

35. It's called black/white thinking

And yes, some proponents of black/white thinking do try to marginalize and bully dissenters into silence. And they fail.

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Response to derby378 (Reply #35)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 07:55 PM

38. You, either.

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Response to Gravitycollapse (Reply #29)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 08:02 PM

48. You're extremely transparent. This country has seen far more terrorist attacks by

RW/baggers/militia types than by Islamic terrorists. In case you hadn't noticed (because you spend all your time cuddling your collection of Preciouses).

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #48)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 08:06 PM

53. I am not blaming anyone for these attacks. The bottom line is we simply don't know.

And to think otherwise is not only unproductive, it's destructive.

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Response to Gravitycollapse (Reply #53)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 08:20 PM

65. BULLSHIT. Violence is destructive. Talking about it is not.

We know a hell of a lot already about this attack. And suspicion rightly is falling on the people in this country who have declared war on non-fascists.

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #65)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 08:25 PM

68. Words can absolutely be violent and destructive.

To assume otherwise is to negate the existence and consequence of manipulative rhetoric.

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Response to Gravitycollapse (Reply #68)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 09:01 PM

85. Speech that encourages violence is as bad as violence. Our speculation about

who did this is not violence of any sort, nor does it encourage violence.

Go find somebody else to sell your snake oil to.

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #85)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 09:31 PM

95. I'm not so sure your speech is so innocent.

In that I mean you assume your rhetoric on this carries no ill consequences. When in actuality it is likely highly destructive.

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #48)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 08:08 PM

59. +1,000. Pretty much nails it. n/t.

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Response to Gravitycollapse (Reply #29)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 08:03 PM

51. I'd go with marginalize dissent. nt

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Response to Gravitycollapse (Reply #29)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 08:05 PM

52. I really don't care who or what you are. You are trying to divert attention from the extreme right.

 

Through thoughts and deeds, the extreme right has demonstrated that nothing is off the table as far as the acts they would consider. I feel they should be looked at with the same vigor 'approved' terrorists will under go.

Hope I made sense - evening pain meds are kicking in.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 08:00 PM

43. No apology necessary. Of course these whacko right wing extremist groups are prime suspects

 

And I suspect the FBI is taking a hard look at all of them, and will raid those they think might be linked in some way to this attack.

If it isn't one of these right wing groups, it might be a former member of theirs, who decided to go "lone wolf" and planned this. You are right, the symbolism is striking, and I doubt it is coincidental. "Patriots Day" indeed. These lunatics probably thought this was their alarm bell telling them to strike.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 08:06 PM

55. ANYONE could do a false flag & blame PO for a false flag. Or it could be an entirely 3rd thing trian

gulating the other two cohorts and that could be anything from one person to more than one.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 08:15 PM

62. So well stated and exactly how I see it

I want those making money on inciting violence to be charged for their crime.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)


Response to Name removed (Reply #66)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 08:26 PM

69. Suspect as much as you please.

But really, THAT suspicion is exceedingly dumb. The OP's is not. It's plausible.

But hey, being dumb is exactly as protected by the First Amendment as being intelligent. Suspect the Gangnam Style singer if that pleases you. Have a blast.

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Response to Name removed (Reply #66)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 08:29 PM

70. 2 posts and you are here defending right wing extremists?

Enjoy your short stay...

RL

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Response to RetroLounge (Reply #70)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 08:33 PM

72. +1. n/t.

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Response to Name removed (Reply #66)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 08:30 PM

71. I reject violent rhetoric whether it comes from the left or right or anywhere in between.

If you hear someone who is spreading violent rhetoric I will join you in denouncing it, I don't want anyone on my side using that rhetoric either and I have alerted on people who have used violent rhetoric on this site even when it came from my own side. Thankfully I have not had to do that much because I don't see too many calls for assassination on this site. I do hear it from the right-wing far more often.

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Response to Name removed (Reply #66)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 08:49 PM

77. I don't so much object, as find it interesting, that you come to DU and sound like Alex Jones.

Do tell, what past events do you think were really "false flag operations to take away our civil liberties", eh?

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 08:45 PM

76. Well....

Right Wing extemeists and anti-government types typically would target government property not mass casualty of civilians... What is the correlating message? Now lone wolf types like Ted Kacynski or the Olympic park bomber are a possibility but we must also realize that this is a Jihadi tactic too.... So yes lets wait until the evidence is in but speculation requires some substance in fact, don't you think?

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Response to humbled_opinion (Reply #76)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 08:59 PM

82. Speculation doesn't require anything, as long as it is acknowledged as speculation.

I don't understand what the big deal is. There are domestic terrorists operating in this country. There have been domestic terrorist attacks before. Likewise, there have been foreign terrorist attacks here. It could be either. Or it could be, as the OP indicated, some whackjob who in their twisted sickness just thought it would be fun. In this case there is a lot of potential symbolism that suggests violent right wing extremists. Then again, as you say, wouldn't they be more likely to target government property? But wait, this happened in Boston - the most high profile event of the most high profile city in the state that is probably most hated by right wing nutjobs.

All that said, I think the fact that no one has taken credit for the bombing makes it less likely to be an organized group, and more likely it was either a lone wolf with political intent, or just the sick whackjob.

JMHO, and very much just speculation. I don't think speculation causes harm, as long as we are clear we are talking about violent extremists of whatever persuasion, not the guy down the street who happens to be a known (gasp!) Republican.

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Response to MH1 (Reply #82)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 09:20 PM

92. True... but

You know what some teaheads at my job just told me that Obama cut funding from the IED program at DHS, funding that according to them could have prevented this type of attack.... So you know the politics is going to run hot and heavy on this....

The real shame is that we all can't just come together in times like this... We really need a leader that can dropped all the poltiical posturing and just bring the country together... Sadly it will never happen.....

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 08:56 PM

79. I'm guessing it is an essentially apolitical severely psychotic- James Holmes-Colorado Shooting

or Columbine High School kind of person or persons behind this. So far, I don't see any evidence of a political motive. But, we don't know. I don't think anyone knows except the perpetrator or perpetrators themselves. The whole symbolism involved just doesn't sound like either a right-wing militia or a Middle East terrorist kind of thing. But I could be wrong. But pointing fingers without a shred of evidence at anyone at this point only undermines credibility and is really kind of knuckle dragging Neanderthalic .

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Response to Douglas Carpenter (Reply #79)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 08:59 PM

80. That's one possible scenario

 

My first thought was Jared Loughner, ie some whack job with weird beliefs that aren't easily categorized. But who knows? That's no more or less likely than many other scenarios.

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Response to Douglas Carpenter (Reply #79)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 09:14 PM

89. Could be...

I'm suspecting someone like Eric Rudolph myself - very political, not psychotic.

This bombing seems very similar to the Olympic Park bombing.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 09:00 PM

84. I am with you. Do not apologize.

 

Eloqently putting into words what many of us are thinking needs no apology. You are entitled and I am in your corner. Thank you.

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Response to dothemath (Reply #84)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 09:37 PM

97. Yes exactly. Look at what happened post 9/11.

Everyone was quick to point fingers and play the blame game without knowing all the facts. Same thing is happening now. What happens when we get this crazy as a society? Ten years of endless war. If we don't stop and take a breather and find out what actually happened, history will repeat itself.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 09:18 PM

90. No one is saying they are not people to watch

If the modern Boston Massacre never happened, they would still be people who need watching, but the last thing we need is the left saying "those rednecks did it" the right saying "those Arabs did it", and some perps that may be NEITHER of us sitting at home, laughing their ass off because no one looks their way.

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Response to DonCoquixote (Reply #90)

Wed Apr 17, 2013, 07:32 AM

120. I personally am not too worried that the investigators will look the other way because of my post

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 09:19 PM

91. of course, this kind of violence is a by a product of the gun culture no matter where it originated

many here would argue that violence is an acceptable price to pay to be able to fondle their playthings.

There act of owning a gun fosters the mentality that makes it acceptable to bomb and kill innocent people. You can bet that whoever did this was also a gun owner.

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Response to bowens43 (Reply #91)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 09:33 PM

96. It's not just gun culture though. It's our overall culture of violence.

Guns, bombs, missiles, tanks, fighter jets, bombers, nuclear weapons, war mongering, war profiteering...

All of this promotes an atmosphere that is conducive to such attacks.

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Response to bowens43 (Reply #91)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 09:39 PM

98. What a horrible comment.

How about we blame violent video games? You know, the ones where you can actually simulate an attack like this? Why in the world would any normal person want to play such a 'game'?

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Response to bowens43 (Reply #91)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 10:45 PM

106. .

At Tue Apr 16, 2013, 08:29 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

of course, this kind of violence is a by a product of the gun culture no matter where it originated
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2688365

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

This is an over-the-top attack on gun owners. I know many many people who own and shoot firearms and not a single one has announced their solidarity with the perpetrators of this heinous attack.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Apr 16, 2013, 08:33 PM, and the Jury voted 1-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Eh.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: It's an opinion. They're plentiful on DU. If you disagree, debate it and show him where he's wrong.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Truth hurts
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT and said: Agree with the alerter 100%. This post was hateful and unnecessary. Blaming gun owners for this senseless tragedy is no different from Westboro Baptist Church blaming gay marriage or Pat Robertson blaming Moslems. A tragedy is not a valid excuse to attack people you don't agree with or understand.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

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Response to bowens43 (Reply #91)

Wed Apr 17, 2013, 08:32 AM

123. What a load of crap

Connecting the vast majority of gun owners to people who think it's acceptable to bomb innocent people is so egregiously stupid, I'm almost surprised to see it here.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 09:45 PM

99. Much like...

Alex Jones blaming the president for Sandy Hook, you don't feel bad at all about blaming people with no evidence.

That's nice.

Just remember: there's plenty of violent assholes on every side. I'd prefer to know before blasting groups for undue cause (especially when there's plenty of real cause to go around already).

I don't really give a shit who did it as long as justice is done. Oh, BTW, my definition is different than Cheney/Obama/Facebook... I don't mean assassinated or brutalized in unmentionable ways with various implements, but brought to stand a fair public trial, and, if found guilty, punished according to established legal code.

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Response to bobclark86 (Reply #99)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 10:41 PM

105. Alex Jones? Please.

There is no conspiracy theory in what I am saying. The fact is there has been some extreme violent rhetoric coming from some on the extreme right. I am not talking about everyone on the right I am talking of a few, I am talking about the ones that either push or embrace violent rhetoric. I have reason to suspect that the people who push violent rhetoric or embrace violent rhetoric just might carry out the fantasies they publicly suggest they will carry out or they will convince someone else to carry it out for them.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 09:55 PM

102. You pissed off the gun-bunnies! That means you touched a nerve!

Keep doing what you're doing!

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 10:36 PM

103. I'm inclined to agree with you, Bjorn Against...

... and am anxious to hear what our big HS comes up with. Watching how our judicial system works on PBS... "The Central Park Five." They can manufacture anything they want...

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 10:38 PM

104. You have every cause to be suspicious of the right wing

How far do the right-wing nut jobs have to go with their rhetoric and actions to convince some people that they are a real and present threat?

25+ years of hate radio against anything liberal or non-conservative, shootings by Glen Beck inspired nut cases, flying a plane into an IRS building, OKC, Planned Parenthood clinics, entire news networks devoted to bashing liberals/Democrats 24/7, the Tea Party, Communist, Socialist, Muslim, and on and on and on.

Yet some say "we're just like them" if we suspect that the right wingers may have finally followed through on what they have been threatening to do for all these years?
That is denial bordering on frigging delusional.

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Response to meanit (Reply #104)

Fri Apr 19, 2013, 12:20 PM

131. yes, you have cause to be suspicious

 

but you would also have cause to be suspicious of Islamic extremists...and it looks like that is what happened here. If we had come out and said, "Hey this was the work of islamic terrorists", that would not have been kosher here on the DU. I know it is preferable to blame people we don't like, but it really isn't helpful to jump to those conclusions.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2013, 11:17 PM

114. Larger issue: Suspicion is useless and potentially harmful...

Unless you're a member of the law enforcement team examining this tragedy from all possible angles, your (or anyone else's) suspicion is doing *nothing* positive here.

While your rant about right-wing "entertainers" (my word for them) holds much merit, going public with suspicion of any group is not only non-productive, but it opens the door to some potentially harmful behaviors. If you gather a group with like suspicions, hate is easily born. And you know what follows that.





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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Wed Apr 17, 2013, 08:59 AM

125. I lean toward some rw group/person doing this

because it was Patriots Day and Tax Day, and the target was an international/cosmopolitan event in liberal Boston. The objective may have been a "Turner Diaries"-style attempt to ignite "The Revolution" or whatever these types believe is coming.

However, that's just my (biased) speculation based on what little I know. While I lean toward my scenario above, I recognize there are numerous possibilities. I remember speculation around the DC sniper posited that the perp was probably white, male, and right wing.

Well, one out of three ain't bad, I guess.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2013, 05:38 AM

127. Kick

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2013, 08:48 AM

128. So...........about that theory.............. nt.

 

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Response to TimberValley (Reply #128)

Fri Apr 19, 2013, 09:23 AM

129. Ted Nuggent!

 

I don't think is was the Tea party, or Ted Nuggent.



/I love hindsight



Macoy

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Response to Bjorn Against (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2013, 10:05 AM

130. well...

 

i guess you and I were both wrong.

It was not a Right-wing kook group and it was not a Yankee fan.

Looks like whoever had Islamic fundamentalist is the winner.

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