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Wed Mar 6, 2013, 08:20 PM

Rand Paul: "If the President is not going to kill them, why won't he say he's not going to kill"

This is a classic straw man argument.

Highlights of Rand Paul’s filibuster against John Brennan thus far
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/highlights-of-rand-pauls-filibuster-against-john-brennan/2013/03/06/514791f4-8694-11e2-98a3-b3db6b9ac586_video.html

Paul (my transcription) :

"I really don't think he would do this, but the thing is is, I'm troubled by the fact that he won't tell us he won't...If he's a good man, and we believe him to be a good man who would never kill noncombatants in a cafe in Houston, sitting out in a sidewalk cafe, smoking... oh, that's right you're not allowed to smoke cigarettes anymore. Let's say they're sitting in a cafe, if the President is not going to kill them, why won't he say he's not going to kill them there."


Thank you onenote:

He repeatedly concedes, as he must, that the President obviously has the authority to use lethal force against US citizens on US soil to repel an attack. But then he returns again and again to the claim that administration hasn't disavowed killing americans while they sit in a restaurant. But the administration has made it clear that even overseas they could target an American sitting at a restaurant only if capture was infeasible. Now the fact is that capture IS infeasible more often than not i when you're talking about operations in a a foreign country. But in the US, applying that same standard, its all but impossible to conjure up a situation in which targeting someone sitting at McDonald's could be taken out with a drone. But Paul would like to pretend that is what the administration has claimed it can do, even though Holder's letter and his testimony offers zero support for that supposition.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2469954

Rand Paul goes on to say something about ethic groups. Yeah, Mr. Civil Liberties.

Rand Paul, Supposed Defender Of Civil Liberties, Calls For Jailing People Who Attend ‘Radical Political Speeches’
http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2011/05/31/232182/rand-paul-criminalize-speech/

Sen. Rand Paul: Civil Rights Act Was Overreach Because "I Can't Have A Cigar Bar Anymore"
http://politicalcorrection.org/blog/201201090003

51 replies, 3083 views

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Arrow 51 replies Author Time Post
Reply Rand Paul: "If the President is not going to kill them, why won't he say he's not going to kill" (Original post)
ProSense Mar 2013 OP
ProSense Mar 2013 #1
Logical Mar 2013 #2
ProSense Mar 2013 #4
Logical Mar 2013 #5
ProSense Mar 2013 #8
Logical Mar 2013 #11
ProSense Mar 2013 #20
Logical Mar 2013 #21
Cha Mar 2013 #10
Logical Mar 2013 #14
Cha Mar 2013 #16
Logical Mar 2013 #19
ProSense Mar 2013 #22
Logical Mar 2013 #23
ProSense Mar 2013 #24
Cha Mar 2013 #27
JDPriestly Mar 2013 #44
ProSense Mar 2013 #45
Cha Mar 2013 #26
Cha Mar 2013 #12
Cha Mar 2013 #7
Sheepshank Mar 2013 #49
msanthrope Mar 2013 #3
freshwest Mar 2013 #36
bluedigger Mar 2013 #41
freshwest Mar 2013 #47
bluedigger Mar 2013 #48
Cha Mar 2013 #6
Hayabusa Mar 2013 #17
silverweb Mar 2013 #9
Cha Mar 2013 #15
silverweb Mar 2013 #29
Cha Mar 2013 #33
Comrade_McKenzie Mar 2013 #13
freshwest Mar 2013 #50
phleshdef Mar 2013 #18
ProSense Mar 2013 #35
Blue Idaho Mar 2013 #25
struggle4progress Mar 2013 #28
ucrdem Mar 2013 #30
ucrdem Mar 2013 #31
Cha Mar 2013 #34
ucrdem Mar 2013 #38
Cha Mar 2013 #39
MotherPetrie Mar 2013 #32
Generic Brad Mar 2013 #37
spanone Mar 2013 #40
Heather MC Mar 2013 #42
ProSense Mar 2013 #46
GoCubsGo Mar 2013 #51
patrice Mar 2013 #43

Response to ProSense (Original post)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 08:38 PM

1. Kick! n/t

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 08:44 PM

2. LOL. Still on this? Who the hell kicks their own posts? n-t

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Response to Logical (Reply #2)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 08:47 PM

4. Yes,

"LOL. Still on this?

...I have an aversion to demagogues hypocrites and racists.

"Who the hell kicks their own posts?"

That never, never happens here.

Still, I do.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #4)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 08:48 PM

5. You have become a parody of yourself. Entertaining though. n-t

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Response to Logical (Reply #5)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 08:50 PM

8. Says the person

"You have become a parody of yourself. Entertaining though."

...who jumps into threads to post the above drivel or similar.

If you must know, I laugh my ass off at those comments ever chance I get. Guess what I'm doing?

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Response to ProSense (Reply #8)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 08:51 PM

11. Oh I know what your doing. Why, I am not sure. We all wonder who is behind it. n-t

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Response to Logical (Reply #11)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 08:59 PM

20. Funny,

"Oh I know what your doing. Why, I am not sure. We all wonder who is behind it."

...that when called out on drivel, an individual suddenly becomes "we."

I'm thrilled by the attention, really.



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Response to ProSense (Reply #20)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 09:00 PM

21. Well that is obvious. IM me sometime. We can have a open discussion! n-t

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Response to Logical (Reply #5)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 08:51 PM

10. "A parody". Only to those

who don't want to deal with the reality based information.

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Response to Cha (Reply #10)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 08:53 PM

14. LOL, or the "Obama is perfect" side of things. Makes me laugh. n-t

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Response to Logical (Reply #14)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 08:55 PM

16. thanks for kicking her thread even though it's with

another ignorant statement.

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Response to Cha (Reply #16)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 08:58 PM

19. Sure. Anything to expose blind support bias. n-t

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Response to Logical (Reply #19)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 09:01 PM

22. Whose, Rand Paul's?

Or are you pissed that he's being called out?

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Response to ProSense (Reply #22)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 09:02 PM

23. He is an idiot, but it does not mean Obama is right with his policy. n-t

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Response to Logical (Reply #23)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 09:04 PM

24. "He is an idiot"

And somehow pointing this is your first comment in the thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2470214

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Response to ProSense (Reply #24)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 09:16 PM

27. Attack first mentality.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #24)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 11:02 PM

44. Rand Paul is an idiot, but he is right on the issue of

drones. He is right about the fact that each of us enjoys the right to habeas corpus.

Obama is a wonderful person. He is not going to kill people willy-nilly. But who knows what a future president might do with the power that Obama is claiming.

I don't like drones used within our borders except in remote places.

Here in my corner of LA, we have helicopters overhead so often that you go prematurely deaf just living here. Might as well live on an air force base. It's absolutely horrible.

We don't need drones too. Place police officers in cars. Don't let people in the country if they might pose a threat to security.

But drones we do not need.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #44)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 11:17 PM

45. Apparently,

"Rand Paul is an idiot, but he is right on the issue of drones. He is right about the fact that each of us enjoys the right to habeas corpus.

Obama is a wonderful person. He is not going to kill people willy-nilly. But who knows what a future president might do with the power that Obama is claiming."

...the teabagger Senators aren't concerned with that: legislation http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022470744

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Response to Logical (Reply #19)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 09:14 PM

26. Oh you poor thing.

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Response to Logical (Reply #5)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 08:52 PM

12. Oh, and thanks for Kicking the Thread.. even though

you had nothing but ignorant insults.

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Response to Logical (Reply #2)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 08:49 PM

7. anybody who thinks enough of their OPs to want other

people to read it. That's who.

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Response to Logical (Reply #2)

Thu Mar 7, 2013, 02:43 PM

49. Why the rabid attack at what is clearly a personal aggravation?

seems petty to me.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 08:46 PM

3. It's as if Rand Paul reads DU. nt

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #3)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 10:04 PM

36. More like he writes here at DU. Just sayin'

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Response to freshwest (Reply #36)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 10:32 PM

41. He's Legion.

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Response to bluedigger (Reply #41)

Thu Mar 7, 2013, 02:31 PM

47. And changes his socks often, too. Gotta hand it to him for hygiene, that.

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Response to freshwest (Reply #47)

Thu Mar 7, 2013, 02:32 PM

48. You're OK.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 08:48 PM

6. rand paul the rw bircher teabagger,strawbagging, tool. very

useful now.

has he started reading from Atlas Shrugged yet?

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Response to Cha (Reply #6)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 08:55 PM

17. No, he's just reading articles and tagging out

to other Republicans who have questions that are really extra speech that allows him to rest his voice for a minute or so.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 08:50 PM

9. Rand Paul is a joke.

& R

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Response to silverweb (Reply #9)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 08:53 PM

15. A strawman joke and he's sucking in

all the gullibles.

silverweb

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Response to Cha (Reply #15)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 09:20 PM

29. I'm honestly shocked.

I really was starting to think that the number of gullibles was falling as more people wised up.

Must have read one too many stories about ex-reTHUGs dissing the teabagger bunch. Silly me!

Nice to see you Cha!

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Response to silverweb (Reply #29)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 09:40 PM

33. I think lots of people are wising up to gop disingenuousness...

just not around here, silver.

You too

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 08:53 PM

13. Yep. The 'I hate Rand Paul... BUT' crowd is PATHETIC...

 

They're just like the "I'm not racist or anything, BUT..." people.

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Response to Comrade_McKenzie (Reply #13)

Thu Mar 7, 2013, 03:12 PM

50. As clearly defined by Tim Wise. Brush all that aside, and Rand is pure gold!

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 08:57 PM

18. Rand Paul is playing the "whens the last time you beat your wife" game.

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Response to phleshdef (Reply #18)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 09:45 PM

35. It's asking for

a birth certificate. He keeps reframing the question regardless of how many times he gets a response.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 09:11 PM

25. One thing is certain whenever Rand Paul speaks

It's always about Rand Paul.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 09:20 PM

28. I heard Rand Paul is planning a neo-Nazi coup so he can molest children freely. And yet,

day after day, he refuses to deny these rumors. Why doesn't he tell us he's not planning a neo-Nazi coup? Why doesn't he tell us he doesn't plan to molest children in the future? You really have to wonder what he's hiding

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 09:22 PM

30. Hmm ... sounds like a dog whistle to me

a.k.a. a thinly disguised appeal to race prejudice. From the OP:

If he's a good man, and we believe him to be a good man who would never kill noncombatants in a cafe in Houston, sitting out in a sidewalk cafe, smoking... oh, that's right you're not allowed to smoke cigarettes anymore. Let's say they're sitting in a cafe, if the President is not going to kill them, why won't he say he's not going to kill them there.


Unpacking it gives us something like this:

"The (black) guys who took away your cigarettes and want to steal your guns have given themselves the say-so to take away your life whenever they please, and if they hate you as much as we hate them why wouldn't they?"


That's based on what I've read from Paul fils et père before, but I haven't been listening to the filibuster so if I've got him all wrong my apologies to any offended. But I'd be surprised if that isn't what he's up to.

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Response to ucrdem (Reply #30)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 09:27 PM

31. p.s. i mean from Rand,

not from ProSense, in case that isn't clear. Rec'd.

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Response to ucrdem (Reply #31)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 09:42 PM

34. I got it..thanks ucrdem

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Response to Cha (Reply #34)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 10:13 PM

38. Thanks Cha!

I might be over-cautious but better safe than sorry!

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Response to ucrdem (Reply #38)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 10:17 PM

39. agreed. you never know.

Welcome to DU, ucrdem

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 09:27 PM

32. Rand Paul might be (and is) a pissy little asshole with whom I disagree on almost everything.

 

But I would like to hear the answer to that question too.

But I guess Obama is too busy making nice with other teabagging Senators.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 10:08 PM

37. If Rand Paul is not going to be an asshat...

..Why won't he say he's not going to be an asshat?

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 10:18 PM

40. k&r...

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 10:36 PM

42. Why are repugs pretending they don't love drones

That was the ONE thing Mitt Romney said he wholeheartedly supported was the Drone program, i doubt he would have said that with such conviction, if his puppet master had not given him the ok to say it.

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Response to Heather MC (Reply #42)

Thu Mar 7, 2013, 08:02 AM

46. Exactly. Farce:

McConnell Joins Filibuster Of Brennan Nomination

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell joined his fellow colleague from Kentucky, Rand Paul, on Wednesday night in filibustering the nomination of John Brennan as director of the Central Intelligence Agency.

McConnell offered no hints as to his view on the administration's policy on targeted killing as it relates to United States soil, the issue Paul has been filibustering over, but he added that he will oppose cloture should it be invoked.

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/mcconnell-joins-filibuster-of-brennan-nomination


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Response to Heather MC (Reply #42)

Thu Mar 7, 2013, 03:18 PM

51. It's a fund-raising tactic.

The Evil Black Man in the White House is being portrayed as loving drones, so they must be against it. Except that:



http://www.mediaite.com/online/eric-holder-sent-letter-to-rand-paul-on-obamas-authority-to-target-u-s-citizens-with-drones-the-answer-is-no/

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Wed Mar 6, 2013, 11:01 PM

43. RP is base-building amongst those who will not say that THEY won't kill FOR. THEIR. GUNS. nt

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