HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » To Those that say tyranny...
Introducing Discussionist: A new forum by the creators of DU

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 06:08 AM

 

To Those that say tyranny,tyranny- I say BULL. You are free/open writing here on a worldwide board

You yell tyranny
President Obama is taking away your rights
blah blah blah blah blah
fascism, authoritarianism, thisism thatism

yet you say it on a worldwide searchable googleable chat board/discussion board that
anyone and everyone who wants to can read from any computer in the entire world.

cut the bull. It is bullshitism.

If our President were the person you people yelling tyranny was saying,
do you think you would have that right at all?

I travel to the deep south from NY area, and guess what, I can read my words.
I have friends overseas that all the time READ MY WORDS in places ten thousand miles away or more.

Tyranny?
Were it the way the complainers say, your words would NOT be read by anyone, nor would they be allowed.

So cut the crap already with the soundbytes

and what is more democratic, than having to put up with the shit Fox News says every single day of the year.

the only reason one day they will no longer exist is- more and more people daily are turning them off VOLUNTARILY of their own free right

Getting real tired of the whiners in the media and elsewhere

It could be so much worse you know, and is elsewhere.
It could be so much worse here in the US too.

Is life perfect?
Has life ever been perfect?
Who says life is perfect for all at the same time

especially when the whiners would still find a reason to whine about something
(and I would be perfectly happy if I myself never had to whine about this. I would find no need to whine for whine sake in case you think I myself am whining.)

Thank God or whomever, that President Obama is here today in office for his second term.
NOBODY does it better that is alive today. NOBODY.
Wish we had more than just 4 more years.

65 replies, 3306 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 65 replies Author Time Post
Reply To Those that say tyranny,tyranny- I say BULL. You are free/open writing here on a worldwide board (Original post)
graham4anything Jan 2013 OP
Bonobo Jan 2013 #1
WinniSkipper Jan 2013 #58
Bonobo Jan 2013 #64
WinniSkipper Jan 2013 #65
Fumesucker Jan 2013 #2
graham4anything Jan 2013 #4
Fumesucker Jan 2013 #8
graham4anything Jan 2013 #13
Fumesucker Jan 2013 #15
graham4anything Jan 2013 #16
Fumesucker Jan 2013 #23
redgreenandblue Jan 2013 #31
graham4anything Jan 2013 #44
Fumesucker Jan 2013 #46
graham4anything Jan 2013 #49
tama Jan 2013 #27
graham4anything Jan 2013 #42
tama Jan 2013 #48
graham4anything Jan 2013 #50
tama Jan 2013 #54
graham4anything Jan 2013 #56
tama Jan 2013 #59
cherokeeprogressive Jan 2013 #40
graham4anything Jan 2013 #6
Fumesucker Jan 2013 #9
Politicub Jan 2013 #45
Bluenorthwest Jan 2013 #55
stultusporcos Jan 2013 #3
graham4anything Jan 2013 #5
stultusporcos Jan 2013 #7
graham4anything Jan 2013 #10
stultusporcos Jan 2013 #12
graham4anything Jan 2013 #14
stultusporcos Jan 2013 #17
graham4anything Jan 2013 #20
stultusporcos Jan 2013 #28
redgreenandblue Jan 2013 #32
stultusporcos Jan 2013 #34
tama Jan 2013 #61
Oilwellian Jan 2013 #57
randome Jan 2013 #24
Fumesucker Jan 2013 #30
randome Jan 2013 #36
hobbit709 Jan 2013 #37
randome Jan 2013 #43
VOX Jan 2013 #11
Politicub Jan 2013 #47
tama Jan 2013 #18
WinkyDink Jan 2013 #19
graham4anything Jan 2013 #21
redgreenandblue Jan 2013 #22
hobbit709 Jan 2013 #25
Nye Bevan Jan 2013 #38
redgreenandblue Jan 2013 #60
obamanut2012 Jan 2013 #39
Earth_First Jan 2013 #26
Chico Man Jan 2013 #29
stupidicus Jan 2013 #33
graham4anything Jan 2013 #53
stupidicus Jan 2013 #63
meow2u3 Jan 2013 #35
tama Jan 2013 #51
ananda Jan 2013 #41
Silent3 Jan 2013 #52
kestrel91316 Jan 2013 #62

Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 06:19 AM

1. "Getting real tired of the whiners"

Yeah me too.

Why don't you go sit down relax have a sandwich drink a glass of milk do some-fucking-thing will ya?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bonobo (Reply #1)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 12:03 PM

58. Jimmy Serrano rules.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WinniSkipper (Reply #58)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 07:38 PM

64. You win a cream soda!!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bonobo (Reply #64)

Mon Jan 21, 2013, 07:17 PM

65. That's an All-Time movie

 

One that is very under the radar. Always good to find a fan

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 06:21 AM

2. Things are obviously going well for you

Not everyone is so fortunate.

You need to quit your whining about whining if you expect to be taken seriously.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fumesucker (Reply #2)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 06:31 AM

4. Did someone snap their fingers and make it perfect for everyone?

 

However, when the downturns happen, they go slowly in waves
and some areas remained up, for two, three, four years after
so obviously, it takes time for all areas

and i answered the last part in the bottom

the whiners in the media and here that rail against everything,(the Ralph nader types, make a living whining. Stop their whine, stop their paycheck, ergo, they will whine

Me, I am happy in repeating the good, instead of the bad
and will have President Obama's back all the time

You didn't hear me whine about the 1st debate.
Me and Al Sharpton.

the only few who didn't whine after the first debate
when the rope-a-dope strategy worked perfect.


the thingy is- I never hear 99% of President Obama's core fans whining about President Obama.They are the ones (and I am one of them) that gave him the victory.
The whiners did not. They may have padded the vote.
However, they did not change the outcome.
The outcome that the core voters(of which I am one) won the election.
The ones that voted directlly FOR him, and not against someone else, or just because.

And btw, I am not whining here anyhow.
I am just using a trueism.

if you were not free, you couldn't whine.

and nobody is taking your whining away.

(note-your being generic, not specific.)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to graham4anything (Reply #4)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 06:45 AM

8. Ever watch a small kid get angry at a much larger one and the larger one just holds his head

And keeps the smaller kid at arms length while the smaller one swings away wildly, connecting with nothing?

That's what's going on with the all the free talk on the internet, the big kid is letting the smaller kid just swing away, he's not going to connect with anything anyway.

Perspective is important, you might recall the story of the blind men and the elephant, same beast many different comparisons, rope, wall, tree and so on, all because of different perspectives.

Rather than getting angry at those who have a different perspective and berating them perhaps it might be more useful to try and understand why they have the perspective they do and how that perspective makes the world appear to them. No one person has a perspective that is completely correct and encompasses everything.

One thing I can tell you for sure is that if you don't understand how and why something is broken your chances of fixing it are infinitesimal.







Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fumesucker (Reply #8)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 06:54 AM

13. Just because a door handle falls off a refrigerator, doesn't mean you need a new refrig.

 

vote out all the repubs or make President Obama a dictator, and voila life would be easier.
But America don't work that way, never did.

After all, Jefferson wrote all are equal. Ah, no he didn't write that. He wrote anyone that was male and looked like he did was equal.
And when you get right down to it, that was also Hitler's philosophy wasn't it?
Sad but true.
Jefferson was not the person loved by all sides

and keep in mind, when the other side likes someone, don't you ever wonder why they like
that?
if they are diametrically opposed to everything I am, why is it that they like Jefferson, quote him, and also, why do they say they like the Kennedy's?
(the Kennedy point is easy, because it is no sweat to like those that died before they had their full time in office, so one can say anything. Even if they don't actually like anything about them at all, but who will tell them to their face that?
As for Jefferson, they must like that he specifically did NOT say blacks, slaves and women in his mantra. He specifically said what he did, and parsed it out.

Therefore, why not apply that logic to guns itself? And say anything not said about guns specifically, is not included.(as an example.)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to graham4anything (Reply #13)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 06:59 AM

15. You might want to slow down a bit and organize your thoughts before you post

Speaking of parsing, doing that to your unedited stream of consciousness is remarkably difficult.

I will say that you are extremely good at attracting attention to your OPs.

People will always rubberneck at a car crash.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fumesucker (Reply #15)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 07:08 AM

16. the NRA has million dollar suits, who compose soundbytes, that are professionally parsed & edited

 

every last word is published being the perfect word the NRA wants.

I just am one person with zero funding and well, no, don't use a proof reader

but then, the good points I make in a long thing, are taken by others and similiar things are said in a more professional way, minus the filler.

yes, it is true, sometimes I don't realize which paragraph is the important one til later, then I try and make a new post on just that section.

if you want to hire me a proof reader, be my guest.

(and NO, I did not nor ever say you were the NRA, or anyone specific. I said the NRA as an example).

when you have ways of looking at things, there is no absolute that President Obama could do at this time to please 100% of the time.
Therefore, I look for the 10% gain, not the 100% of nothing.

so instead of going personal on me, go with the parts that you feel are important and argue that.

Me, I am like juror #8. I listen and take off from there. And if too many people all of a sudden from the other side move over, or have that view, I sit back and think, why all of a sudden do they want that, when they never wanted that, and may again rethink my position.
Or remain with it.
So I do listen to everything. But i will question angles and motives of others.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to graham4anything (Reply #16)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 08:24 AM

23. I see lots of errors in grammar, facts, logic and even spelling in M$M bullshit

Take David Brooks for an example, take him to another planet as far as I'm concerned.

http://crooksandliars.com/2008/06/03/memo-to-david-brooks-applebees-doesnt-have-a-salad-bar


In an earlier post, C&L and many other sites caught David Brooks say this:

DAVID BROOKS, “NEW YORK TIMES: Obama‘s problem is he doesn‘t seem like a guy who can go into an Applebee‘s salad bar and people think he fits in naturally there. He has to change to be more like that Applebee‘s guy and as he‘s done that he‘s become much more transactional. Much more, I‘m going to deliver this and this and this to you on policy.


C&Ler Mitzi left this in the comment section:

I called my Applebee’s today to make sure I was correct and they do not have a salad bar. Just goes to show how much these people who make these comments have no idea how “regular people” live their lives.

I called an Applebee's also and they told me that none of their restaurants have a salad bar. David, sometimes the jokes write themselves. What an idiot.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fumesucker (Reply #23)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 09:08 AM

31. Don't feed.

The purpose of this OP is to piss people off, nothing more.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fumesucker (Reply #23)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 10:35 AM

44. I have not much use for Brooks or most oped or talking heads, except for Al Sharpton (Hi Al!)

 

Sometimes the mind plays tricks on minutia. I am sure Brooks had a salad bar in mind, and picked the wrong place, or used something he thought sounded good.
Olive Garden gives you all you can eat salad.
Charlie Brown's has a salad bar.
Unlimited shrimp at red lobster
Unlimited bread at Outback.
Unlmited soda at some places (but not 48 ounces at others).

Now is Brooks and idiot? Well, I don't agree with most of what he says, nor do I rush to publish something the odd times I agree with him
(like someone published one specific Charles Blow piece,(thinking he was anti-Obama), without realizing Charles Blow does NOT have anything to do with their views, as 99.99% he is pro-our President.

and yes, I brain farted at least twice in author's names recently, and got the name of the magazine wrong in my mind for Rockwell.
But it was because of the picture in my mind, not that I didn't know what I myself meant.
I just wrote a typo in writing.

just talking to someone just 1/2 hour ago, and this fits here-
Paul Simon was talking about Mickey Mantle when he wrote "Where have you gone Joe DiMaggio, a nation..."
He knew he was talking about Mantle not Joe D. But "where have you gone Mickey Mantle" didn't fit in the musical tone and the # five syllables needed to keep the music in tone, so he wrote in Joe DiMaggio. (Mickey Mantle had 4 not 5).

just like on gun threads
WGAS which specific gun is which. It's the thingy that shoots bullets that kill.
Minutia doesn't ruin a statement, it deflects the who thread off the important stuff.

Hey, we all are older than used to be, and if you are perfect, God bless you, but I never claimed to be perfect, nor check every statement for typos and spelling (are we in second grade where spelling is the only important thing?).

and worrying about minutia could make someone so paranoid, that they stop writing altogether just so as "not to embarrass themselves" that they wrote v for vengence instead of vendetta.
(ooh, better never write again, I might have teacher yell at me.)

imho

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to graham4anything (Reply #44)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 10:42 AM

46. Here's what you said

the NRA has million dollar suits, who compose soundbytes, that are professionally parsed & edited

every last word is published being the perfect word the NRA wants.


You then expounded that you didn't mean *just* the NRA but professional lobbying organizations in general.

Brooks used a made up talking point that turned out to be completely false to criticize Obama and you make excuses for his his lack of professional behavior and ethics.

Brooks is paid big money to pull utter bullshit out of his ass on a regular basis, if he writes that Applebees has a salad bar he should verify that. Fucker hasn't been near anything as low rent as an Applebees in decades.



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fumesucker (Reply #46)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 10:53 AM

49. ok, point taken.Someone at CBS should have inserted the ONE Freakin' word in the Rather/Mapes memo

 

(btw, I myself have eaten at all those places, and others worse, and better, especially during Sandy when anything to eat was better than nothing
(cue in Tom T Halls a week in a county jail and his line about bologna sandwiches).

so yes, Brooks should have done his homework, or better yet, someone on the NY Times should have read what he wrote and changed it.

that is what at least in the past, they paid people specific to do.

but then IMHO the Jayson Blair incident was not an oops mistake, it was a set-up by someone to do to the media what was done

and someone at CBS should have just insert ONE FREAKING WORD in the 100% true content that Dan Rather said and Mary Mapes wrote
They should have said the freakin' memo was handed to them as a COPY in the first place and the bullshit that happened would not have existed.

So why did CBS not parse each word, and was it because they wanted Rather out and were in on it, or were they distracted by Janet Jackson's nipplegate episode from the Super Bowl?
(and was that because Janet was black and would it have been such a big deal if it was say someone who wasn't?)

so, your point is taken
they should do that. The resources are there.

(and the memo btw was never proven false anyhow).

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to graham4anything (Reply #13)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 08:31 AM

27. What are you?

 

Why do you feel some others (who quote Jefferson) are diametrically opposed to what you are?

Speaking about the geometric metaphor, diametric or orthogonal opposition does not mean hostility, but it is the mathematical definition of another dimension.

Speaking as non-European identifying with indigenous peoples AND whole of humanity, I have no illusions about Jefferson and history of white male land owner supremacy. What he is, is a central figure in American national myth, and when he says things that open common spaces for connecting, they are worth quoting, especially when speaking with white, male Americans.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to tama (Reply #27)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 10:22 AM

42. I side with those Jefferson didn't speak to/for.I don't necessarily side with white male Americans.

 

Because those he doesn't speak for/to don't whine about wanting everything and getting nothing.

It is like the old country cry in your beer songs like "pop a top" (and I like old country songs.)

Those guys whine and whine about what they lost, and dont' realize that they didn't have to lose what they lost if they would only stop whining

there might still be time to enjoy what was perceived to have been lost when it wasn't lost at all in the first place

anarchy is what a tiny minority do to interfere with the vast majority in 2013.

tyranny while on the internet itself is not tyranny

you didn't lose the right to speak, but if you yell fire or are places one shouldn't be, it is not tyranny.It's chaos and breaking the law.And this country is run on laws and run on majority rules. (it is why when the electoral system we have is upset by having a third person, someone somewherre will be in cahoots with one side or another, regardless of initial intent.

and one person can ruin it for a couple of hundred millions IMHO.

the whole 2000 mantra that both sides were the same led to the voters staying home
and creating havoc with the entire system, and no one getting 50% of anything.
And it is safe to assume, had the 10,000,000 less voters come out in 2000, that more than a few hundred thousand would have voted for the one who wasn't seated over the one that was, because the other side has a limited number of voters, and you figure all of them came out for their guy. There were NO hidden voters in either 2000 or 2004.
(we are talking Nov. 2000, not Dec. 12, 2000).
and the current problem of corporations, and corporate personhood, well, yeah, Alito and Roberts sure, they would have been picked by Bush.

the problem was self-created.
It is not tyranny, it is the voters who voted that created every single problem from 1968 on.
Because a bunch of changes, less bullets, less protests staying at home, sitting on hands,
voting for a 3rd person, changed everything

not tyranny.
it was a self-inflicted wound.

imho

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to graham4anything (Reply #42)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 10:51 AM

48. You say

 

and tell yourself that you side with the "least of us", the little guy, and at the same time you rationalize the drones and laws that hurt all of us and especially the least of us. I see that you have deep struggle with your conscience.

What kind of tyranny
is self-inflected wound?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to tama (Reply #48)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:00 AM

50. Voting for Nader as protest in 2000 got one Bush. It didn't have to be that way.

 

but many just didn't give a 'uck that year and said what is the difference

because they were browbeaten a million times that neither was different, so why should they bother, and then blame the 5 week later SCOTUS rule, so as not to have to blame themselves.

Never again.

and in a perfect world, no one would die from warfare, but we don't live in a perfect world

and we live in a whole world, so we cannot isolate ourselves, though some would want to.

life isn't perfect, neither am I. Sorry to disappoint those that thought I was.

10% betterment, is better than 100% of nothing no matter how it is parsed, in the hope that one day those 10% add up to 100%, but it never will.
So something is better than nothing.

In a way, President Obama is like Jackie Robinson.
Others could have been before Jackie, but Jackie had what it took to do it and not be sidetracked into not attaining it in the first place.

The others prior led the way and without them, there would not have been.
But being the first needs someone who can win, to get there.

(which is why Hillary45 is the best bet for 2016 to be the first woman President.
Some might say this person or that one is better, but Hillary has what it takes in 2016 to do it.
(Off topic I know).

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to graham4anything (Reply #50)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:23 AM

54. This is not about Obama

 

except to you and others who put all their hope in Great Leader and do their best to remain blind to everything else. And not only blind, but in defense of their myopia attack all and everything that they feel is threatening it and create great drama in their minds and discussion threads. High game of partisan politics and who get's elected as the figurehead of the system has some meaning, but on the large scale of things, the whole 100%, very little, much less than 10%, much less than 1%.

To me, as I'm speaking with you, you are now infinitely more important than Obama, with whom I've never talked.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to tama (Reply #54)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:51 AM

56. But our system is like that. The UK system is different, but we fought not to be them.

 

I disagree, same as my feelings for LBJ

LBJ didn't have to do what he did with the social issues, the voting rights acts, the civil rights acts, he wanted to (and yes, it could be said he was more liberal than President Obama, and he was more liberal than JFK and RFK were).

as for the war, IMHO anyone would have done what LBJ did,there was no choice,
and that is unlike the good stuff he did, where there was a choice and he did it(and needed help from the other side to achieve it, to get around the Wallace racists in his own party).

i don't consider Bush and President Obama the same
any more that I consider Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin the same

and while there were Vietnam disagreements with LBJ, to have HHH run with all the baggage, and without the good politics, arm twisting style LBJ had, was political suicide on the democratic side that year.
LBJ would have beaten Nixon, it woudl have been dirty, ugly, bloody, but LBJ was stronger than Nixon and would have prevailed in spite of Vietnam(where later we found how Nixon sabatoged the peace negotiations anyhow).
Tossing lBJ out in 1968, directly led to Nixon (and indirectly led to RFK's death, in that he would not have won had LBJ stayed.)

the world would have been better off.
imho

We are in a personality system. There are only 44 presidents in history.
All of them known somewhat to those who know politics.We know their names or at least know if someone mentions their name they were president.(or should know).
I find I can no longer name all the presidents from the start, but from FDR on, I can list all of them.
That is our system.

In England, there is a different system, and blocs are in play (same as in Israel and Canada).
Same as in some states here.
But we don't elect a president that way, and with the electoral vote 270, we need to have only 2, otherwise, as would be the case now, the house would elect the president each time 270 is not reached, and not the senate or the people. Just the house.
So a 3rd party were there to be one that could win electoral votes, would mess up the 270 system awful.

and the best way to change that IMHO would be for runoff election same day for the top two candidates so that 50% or more is assured.
No other way is fair.

(now that would have meant probably that Gore would have won in 2000 but that Clinton would not have won in 1992, meaning Gore probably never would have been the candidate in 2000 anyhow. imho.

I disagree with you on the % change.
Taking everything into account over the 4 years, we have alot of 10% in different issues gain,
so I would say it is 25-40% better than it was.
And think the next 4 years will if we win the house and the court back, double that over 8 years or more if we do a continuation in 2016-2025.

(and no, it doesn't have to be Hillary per se, but she is the one who can beat the ones they will throw at us, so in that sense it does.)

you do have to win it. imho

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to graham4anything (Reply #56)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 12:31 PM

59. From my point of view

 

5000 years of civilization and written history is all pretty much same, and even that is very small part of human experience and ways of life and social orders. Civilizations rising and collapsing, lot of drama and spectacle, and war war war murder murder murder and self-destructive ecological destruction.

What about cultures that don't even have word "war" in their language? And have unbroken cultural continuity of tens of thousands of years, much much longer than written history? What makes them different and what can we learn from them?

What can we learn from European political philosophies, imagining and theorizing social orders that started in Greece, and have found various practical experiments such as USA and Soviet Union?

How to apply all that we can learn from these experiences to face the challenges of our time, if we wish chance of living good lives to our children, now that we have become globalized, globally interdependent society?

What do my American friends who discuss on a progressive forum think about these questions, what are their experiences, what are their wishes and dreams?

Can we dream common dreams, and if so, what practical steps can be taken to make those dreams come true?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to graham4anything (Reply #13)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 10:15 AM

40. "Make President Obama a dictator, and voila life would be easier"

Fucking insane.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fumesucker (Reply #2)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 06:38 AM

6. btw, who said it was going well for me? You ASSUME much.

 

things will however be going alot better once 2014 comes and the new health plan is fully in effect.

(as opposed to the whiners who complain their tax free benefit of free or cheapie insurance they are now paying might go up ten bucks in their corporate job as opposed to those self employed who pay 10 to 100 times that amount for the last 15 years.)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to graham4anything (Reply #6)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 06:47 AM

9. Your long rambling posts reveal a lot about you

A lot more than I think you realize.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fumesucker (Reply #2)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 10:39 AM

45. In the context of this thread, what isn't going well for you?

The OP is talking about the absurdity of claiming tyranny in relation to the Obama administration.

Because your toe may hurt, or you are upset that your favorite show doesn't air anymore aren't problems related to the OP.

Or if someone is a terrorist they are undeserving of the full measure of freedom.

I could go on, but for the love of Pete, I wish DU would stop the whining.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Politicub (Reply #45)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:41 AM

55. For the love of Pete, going on and on about what others have to say IS whining...

So you are whining about the whining? Reminds me of Mel Brooks old saying "Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you fall into an open sewer and die."

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 06:31 AM

3. That right keep your head firmly

 

buried in the sand.

President Obama signed and supports the very UNAMERICAN NDAA, perhaps you may not be familiar with it? The National Defense Authorization Act where Americans can be detained without trial indefinitely, which is just one of many laws President Obama signed and supports that, is contrary to a free nation and people.

Or perhaps your version of freedom is a secret police state.

I bet you are a big supporter of drones and the killing of children by them too!

But you got his back and will cheerlead for him which is your right but you also have blood on YOUR Hands too.



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to stultusporcos (Reply #3)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 06:35 AM

5. wedge issue. And yes, drones are the most humane war item there is (ask Richard Clarke).

 

your analogy is super fail

because there is some collateral anytime (just crossing the street, some will die).

however, those analogies always fail, because were there not drones, 1000 times the amountof people (or 10,000 would die INCLUDING those who were collateral.)

so instead of 100 dead, there would be 10,100 dead.
drones you see, saved 10,000 people from dying.

quite simple logic.

and the NRA is taking away my freedom to see the Dark Knight in a theater in Colorado.
that freedom to peaceful assembly

because it is the gun, not the person that takes away the rights.
A person carrying a ping pong ball could not easily kill 20 kids in a school, or 19 kids in Oklahoma City

ergo, guns=WMDs

so until the last gun is off the street, don't whine about drones, when right here, the NRA and anyone with a gun on the street, is doing far worse harm.

and if using statistics, please use actual, raw numbers and not forget 1/2 the equation.

drones=save lives

the nra=kills with guns

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to graham4anything (Reply #5)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 06:41 AM

7. So what dance do you do when one of America's Drones murders school children overseas?

 

Rah Rah Sis Boom Bah!



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to stultusporcos (Reply #7)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 06:48 AM

10. but they would have died anyhow

 

simple math.
raw cold number actuary facts.

that and the fact that the patriot act was voted on 3 times, and passed, easily all 3 times.

war sucks, but has been around since the dinasaurs were around.
and always will be

therefore remember the serenity thingy

accept what you can not change
change what you can
and know the difference

and know that the same people there would have died anyhow, by the wars there without us involved at all

but without the gun here, the 26 would be alive
without cowards and extremists and anarchists like McVeigh, that never would have happened in Oklahoma City

and the Waco people killed themselves, and killed federal agents
now, it took a while to figure Waco out.
But then someone in NY doesn't much know about gun stockpiling, and how the horror in Waco was the others, not the leader, who could have been arrested elsewhere.
But had he, who knows how many tens of thousands might have died in the carnage those people would have caused with their guns.

so one needs to step back and see the whole picture

and collateral will always have died just in a different method of war

as Richard Clarke(whom liberals loved after 9-11 for his words againast Bush) said a few weeks ago.Drones save lives.

Who wouldn't have wanted a drone to fall on Hitler the day before the first person was arrested or killed?
Same with McVeigh the day before
the same with OBL the day before the plan was hatched

etc.

I know I do wish that. Much less collateral damage.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to graham4anything (Reply #10)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 06:51 AM

12. Using your logic the kids in Newton would have died anyway

 

at some point in their life so why get upset about someone killing people at all?



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to stultusporcos (Reply #12)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 06:59 AM

14. that is different than those in war would have died by their own people anyhow

 

there is no war here in the USA

the guns can and should be gotten rid of, or the people that use them should be found a way to be taken care of

zero tolerance

make one law that says ZERO guns on street (but one can keep them in their home)

then deal with anyone, with zero tolerance on the street who has one
(yes, more security of course everyone, everywhere, eye in the sky.)

but after all, being secure and safe allows everyone their constitutional rights, all of them
and allowing guns in the home allows those to have theirs without hurting others on the street
(long as they mark their house/place with a nice sticker saying gun on property, beware, but they shouldn't mind, as like with alarms, the sticker is part of being safe and sound.
and telling someone to go elsewhere.

(BTW-the other day someone with a knife stabbed one person a few times, had they had a gun 150 instantly could have died. 149 lives were saved by only being a knife on one person).

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to graham4anything (Reply #14)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 07:42 AM

17. So when did Congress declare war with Pakistan, Afghanistan or Yemen

 

So when did Congress declare war with Pakistan, Afghanistan or Yemen just to name a few?

Got a link, I can’t seem to find anything at all; it would seem to me that this nation declaring war is a news worthy event.


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to stultusporcos (Reply #17)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 08:14 AM

20. the war on terror encompasses terror

 

Pakistan hid BinLaden in plain sight

took ten years of detective work to find him, and humanely they did not put a drone on him,
so conspiracy theorists could say how do you know its him.
they went out of their way to ensure a photo of him was taken.

its not the old days when things are in one place

there are no borders

only good people (the 99.99% of any nation) and bad people (the 0.01% of any nation)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to graham4anything (Reply #20)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 08:33 AM

28. Twist and spin! The New Dance Craze that is sweaping the nation!

 

You must have been big supporters of Pres Bush and Cheney too!

I am starting to think you are part of the 0.01%

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to stultusporcos (Reply #28)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 09:09 AM

32. Don't feed.

This OP is flamebait.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to redgreenandblue (Reply #32)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 09:26 AM

34. I guess those who support fascism can be Democrats

 

Who knew!

Must be that whole big tent thing that I am not a big fan of, the tent needs to at least have some standards.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to stultusporcos (Reply #34)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 12:50 PM

61. When the whole purpose of a "big tent"

 

becomes to grab and hold on to power - in service of and within limits of banks and MIC and big oil and global capitalism - what else to expect? That such power wouldn't not corrupt?

If fascism is the last recluse of capitalism, as is often said, in America it is in some ways still better "hidden" than in Greece, where "liberty or death!" becomes more concrete day by day as fascism comes out open and can be fought against on the streets. When it's more of a matter of definition and degree and endless debates, and it's hard to see through all the complexities and smokescreens, also true progressives and population at large can be easily dragged along to give their vote in support of NDAA etc. In the seeming lack of any "real" alternatives.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to graham4anything (Reply #20)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:58 AM

57. Please, you're making my head hurt

In post #5 you say:

wedge issue. And yes, drones are the most humane war item there is (ask Richard Clarke).


Then, in this post you say:

took ten years of detective work to find him, and humanely they did not put a drone on him


Perhaps only you can explain how drones can be be humane and inhumane at the same time.

On second thought...


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to stultusporcos (Reply #17)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 08:24 AM

24. You're talking about bureaucratic procedure.

I don't want American troops to be in ANY country. But you seem to be saying that we didn't declare war 'the correct way', which is sort of a minor point since Congress muddled that issue after 9/11.

Our troops are doing some good things overseas. Not everything they do is noble and just but there are some frightening horrible people in those countries you mention who treat women and children like dirt.

Fighting fire with fire is not always the best thing to do but sitting on the sidelines while people die horrible deaths is hard to do.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to randome (Reply #24)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 09:01 AM

30. If the Constitution is just "bureaucratic procedure" when it comes to war why are guns any different

And Congress muddled the war issue a long time before 9/11/2001.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fumesucker (Reply #30)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 10:06 AM

36. The word 'war' has become muddled.

The operations in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen, Mali, etc. are not currently being called 'war' by our government. 'Security operations' or 'humanitarian assistance' or 'military training operations'. Those terms don't always define what occurs, of course.

Who is better at defining loopholes than our government?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to randome (Reply #36)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 10:10 AM

37. Like "police action" and "military advisers"

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hobbit709 (Reply #37)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 10:31 AM

43. Those too. It perhaps should not be that way but...

...it IS a more complicated world than last century. Just as society has gotten a lot more complicated since the Constitution was written. 'A well-regulated militia'?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to stultusporcos (Reply #7)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 06:49 AM

11. Your 20 days of service on DU are quite... extinguished.

A short life and a merry one!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to stultusporcos (Reply #3)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 10:46 AM

47. We have been remarkably safe under the Obama administration and its policies

I don't know enough about all parts of the NDAA to make sweeping judgements about it. But I know this - under our president a war has ended and our remaining major war in Afghanistan is winding down.

The top terrorist Osama bin Laden is no longer skulking around the planet organizing terror cells and providing them resources.

So something is going right somewhere, even in the face of imperfect law and GOP obstructionism.

I don't believe you will find anyone who agrees with your hyperbole about approving of drone strikes that kill children.

I do approve of surgical drone strikes that target terror cells and keep our men and women in uniform out of harms way.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 08:06 AM

18. Anarchists fight fascists

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 08:13 AM

19. To whom on DU are you addressing this? (P.S. Your paragraph/sentence structures? :-P )

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WinkyDink (Reply #19)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 08:17 AM

21. to anyone in the media or the Naderites who claims President Obama is tyranny and same as Bush.

 

or the extremists who say tyranny, tyranny, tyranny

no one group specific but the tea party, libertarians, republicans for one thing

Those who are the core voters of President Obama never say he is leading us into tyranny (and I am one of those core voters myself).

tyranny=anarchy=3rd party Naderites, Paulites, Perotites, etceteraites

a case of iteism.

(btw=here=any political or chat board or internet response, which in America is free for 100% of the nation to use (and one can go to a library and not need a computer to speak on the net, so free it is).
here does not mean DU specific.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WinkyDink (Reply #19)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 08:20 AM

22. To no one in particular. This OP is flamebait, as is most of what this person posts. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to redgreenandblue (Reply #22)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 08:26 AM

25. Yep. Constantly agitating the metabolic byproducts container.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to redgreenandblue (Reply #22)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 10:11 AM

38. YES. An OP that states that President Obama is not Hitler is PURE FLAMEBAIT.

BAN the troll.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #38)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 12:40 PM

60. It wouldn't be if anyone had actually said that Obama is Hitler. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to redgreenandblue (Reply #22)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 10:13 AM

39. .......

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 08:26 AM

26. The family of Aaron Swartz might disagree with you... n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 08:46 AM

29. There is a reason they hate evolution

It is because they subconsciously realize they will become victims of it. NOT FAIR!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 09:15 AM

33. whenever I read a whine like this, I recall

just how silly it is to be arguing that just because the flower hasn't fully bloomed yet...

This one is particularly amusing, given that "big brother" is now recording and storing all communications in excess of that which was whined about when "the decider" was at the helm. And of course there's nothing/no one more dangerous than the shortsighted who thinks power once gained will be easily given up, or that more malevolent people won't at some point retake the ship of state, because they are the enablers on the battlefield known as the public square.

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me.


The idea that we are still able to post freely on the "internets" may be proof of how much tyranny we are under at this point in time, but it's not evidence that disproves we're on the road to it. Personally I'd say BHO assuming the right to assassinate US citizens without due process is fine example/evidence we are on that road, and no amount of whining/denials is gonna alter that pov.

What's particularly pathetic about these kind of whines is that they are nothing more than thinly veiled efforts to silence dissent until the tyranny fully blooms, whereupon it will be too late to save the republic.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to stupidicus (Reply #33)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:23 AM

53. bull. That canard does not apply when THEY are the NRA type taking away others

 

it is one thing if you are the NRA

the NRA is the bully.
the NRA is screaming tyranny
those other protesters are like it or not, in cahoots with the NRA by being against President Obama, whether or not they meant to do that

any protest just gives them ammo. and ends up siding with them

You know the real irony?
The 3rd party ites want what the UK has which is that 3rd parties have more power in the UK
because they form blocs.
So that say, a Nader would have power, or perhaps actually get in, in the UK (or a Kucinich or a Ron Paul).
Ironic, huh.
Because I thought the revolution was to get out of the UK system, yet these people want
that system.

yeah, sure, it is ironic.

the opposition are the tyrants if the majority agrees with the system in place

if they don't vote it out fairly, not with lies and "both are the same" when clearly both are not the same.
(and that line will never work again, thanks to Nader and 2000 anyhow).

There is only one answer, IMHO that is working honestly from within

For example-
have 5000 different OWS members run in 5000 different areas for any/all office from house/down.
If you get 50 new house members, that can swing the house from red to blue.

And if the 5000 say they are rabid anti-gun, anti-NRA, well, there is a certain person the OWS hates, that would finance their campaign so they could win.

working together, from within, can change the system than anonymous burn it down, with no hope for getting in any time soon, any better that way.
Why are the individuals ashamed of their name? They should be proud and want it on their resume.
(BTW, a bunch of agitator anarchists stopped a recount in 2000 by claiming to be average citizens, when they were Tom DeLay agitators. Their little group stopped cold the recount by their creating a chaotic riot that was 100% contained by their little group.
That went against the majority of the nation.
That is what mob rule does.

I would proudly vote for any one in NJ from the OWS who ran against the old guy in the house in our district who has been there for 30 years.
But one is needed to run, and get heavy finances.
(YES, it takes money when the other side got it, unless your name is Jerry Brown who is well known for doing. Imagine if Jerry Brown were anonymous, he never would have won election in the first place, and the world would be a sadder place.)

imho Run, run run for the house in all districts where you don't like the current occupant.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to graham4anything (Reply #53)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 01:39 PM

63. too funny

I don't see any major distinctions of the kind you drew here present in the top post I responded (which a reference to the continued existence of Faux Views alone as proof tyranny isn't here yet doesn't qualify as) to, just the generic "whiners/some will never be happy/etc stuff that usually comes from those around here totally critical and intolerant of any dissent/criticism of the POTUS, whether his actions like the referenced assassination program are couched in "tyranny" terms or not. We are often called "whiners", rightwingers, etc,. Furthermore, in the TP you don't even note what whoever is even applying such rhetoric to. SO what now, despite the inarguable vagueness of your material/case made, and the assuming that promotes, that we're guilty of not being able to read your mind? Based on your first sentence in the subject line, I would have naturally assumed you're most likely talking about the NRA types, but you went off the rail with the second sentence, since it referenced DU posters I've never seen refer to him dirctly as a "tyrant".

For example

The adoption of a formal guide to targeted killing marks a significant — and to some uncomfortable — milestone: the institutionalization of a practice that would have seemed anathema to many before the Sept. 11 , 2001, terrorist attacks.

Among the subjects covered in the playbook are the process for adding names to kill lists, the legal principles that govern when U.S. citizens can be targeted overseas and the sequence of approvals required when the CIA or U.S. military conducts drone strikes outside war zones.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/cia-drone-strikes-will-get-pass-in-counterterrorism-playbook-officials-say/2013/01/19/ca169a20-618d-11e2-9940-6fc488f3fecd_story.html?hpid=z1

and this is just one of several ongoing "whines" around here associated with his "tyranny", which includes but is not limited to, the FBI/OWS, pot raids, warrantless wiretapping, etc. But I don't recall anyone ever using "tyrant" as a characterization of his conduct alone, or due to his asociation with his subordinates or those he has sway over, like the JD. I do recall countless efforts on the part of the purist crowd to exaggerate (and the less than flattering descriptions that have accompanied them) what his critics are saying though, and your second sentence "You are free/open writing here on a worldwide board" is a broad umbrella we all share, but not with the crowd you started this last response with a description of. So if you think is is us that are CONfused and CONfounded, you may have a point, as well as some responsibility for it.

As one who has long advocated the election of better/more progressive democrats as the best solution to what ails this country and the party, and one who is very intolerant of the aforementioned types, perhaps you should choose your words more carefully, and start by identifying precisely who you are referring to and what.

And as a cursory reading of all the others that responded directly to your TP, I am far from alone in my interpretation of what you posted. If you don't wanna concede the role your vagueness played in the "misunderstandings", then blame it on all the loudmouth purists around who spend so much time and text on silencing criticisms of the POTUS. I've been telling them for months now that they are the problem, not the critics, and this is just the form taken and an example of, why they are the problem. It merely shows as I've also tried to tell some of them, how sick many are getting of getting painted as second-class liberals/dems/BHO supporters, and worse.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 09:58 AM

35. Those RWNJ's who are screaming the loudest against tyranny

are the very ones who want tyranny--just as long as they're the tyrants!

It's that simple.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to meow2u3 (Reply #35)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:07 AM

51. For sure big part of the picture

 

but even RWNJ's are not totally homogenous mass of power hungry psychopaths. There are lots of good rural folks with roots deep in the soil who have natural and well founded suspicions (based on millennia of peasant experience) towards bossy urban admins "taxing" aka robbing them.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 10:17 AM

41. Well..

I would agree that it's nice to be able to write on an internet board, which IS moderated btw and is not completely free, but it has its uses and advantages even so.

However, the ability to partake in one somewhat free activity does not make a whole argument for freedom from tyranny. To do that, you have to include the entire range of government activities nationwide, and that makes for a rather different story.

I could start a list that might tarnish this country's record on free speech and protest rights, the right to privacy, the right to be free from warrentless wiretapping and illegal search and seizure, and so on.

Specific examples include: protesters arrested simply for protesting; the way Occupiers have been treated; the way Wikileaks has been treated; the way whistleblowers have been treated; hell, the way anyone or any group that works actively to get good information to people and organize protest are treated as "domestic terrorists," well, you get the drift.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:08 AM

52. The difference is that Republicans have mainstreamed this BS in their party...

...but in fairness, there have been plenty of people on the left, especially during the Bush administration, but even now, who'll say we're currently living under a tyranny of the rich and powerful, that whatever freedom you think you have is just an illusion, it's just as much freedom as "they" let you have, you only have the freedom to choose between illusory choices, etc.

With rare exception we Democrats don't put people this goofy into elected office, whereas being a conspiratorial nutcase is apparently a big plus among many Republican constituencies.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to graham4anything (Original post)

Sun Jan 20, 2013, 12:52 PM

62. It's tyranny because they aren't allowed to have gunz

that can fire through the intertubes.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread