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Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:33 PM

A Note From Michael Moore

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/mike-friends-blog/note-michael-moore-2

I am truly beside myself this time. I tried to ring a warning bell about this a decade ago. The disease has only gotten worse.

But...you feel something different in the air across America tonight, don't you? People have had it and the outrage is loud and visible. I'm convinced the majority of Americans will now back strong gun control laws. And a better mental health care system. And perhaps a few are willing to look at the deeper issue of how this country officially sanctions violence as a means to an end.

The NRA, for the first time ever, has gone silent. They've taken their Facebook page down. They know they can't show up in Newtown next week and stick it to the people there, like they usually do after one of these mass killings. Let's face it, the gun lobby tonight is on the ropes. Now is the time to act. We can't let this sad moment pass without a true response and a president willing to be a strong leader.

I'll send some more thoughts tomorrow, but for now I thought I'd share with you what I've been sending out over Twitter this weekend. (If you're not on Twitter, please consider it. I know – not one more social media stop, please! But I've found it to be a quick and easy way to communicate with millions. Please give it a try. I send things out on it every day and I'd like you not to miss them.)

Here's my Twitter feed since the shootings on Friday:
https://twitter.com/mmflint

47 replies, 4103 views

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Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 47 replies Author Time Post
Reply A Note From Michael Moore (Original post)
cal04 Dec 2012 OP
upi402 Dec 2012 #1
RetroLounge Dec 2012 #6
sabrina 1 Dec 2012 #14
ReRe Dec 2012 #19
malaise Dec 2012 #28
cilla4progress Dec 2012 #31
we can do it Dec 2012 #34
cilla4progress Dec 2012 #2
Left Coast2020 Dec 2012 #12
N_E_1 for Tennis Dec 2012 #24
morningfog Dec 2012 #3
rhett o rick Dec 2012 #4
calimary Dec 2012 #10
gtar100 Dec 2012 #16
calimary Dec 2012 #38
ReRe Dec 2012 #20
calimary Dec 2012 #33
rhett o rick Dec 2012 #23
calimary Dec 2012 #32
llmart Dec 2012 #25
calimary Dec 2012 #36
N_E_1 for Tennis Dec 2012 #29
bvar22 Dec 2012 #35
calimary Dec 2012 #39
N_E_1 for Tennis Dec 2012 #43
bvar22 Dec 2012 #46
calimary Dec 2012 #37
N_E_1 for Tennis Dec 2012 #44
Hekate Dec 2012 #5
FunkyLeprechaun Dec 2012 #7
llmart Dec 2012 #26
calimary Dec 2012 #40
ellisonz Dec 2012 #8
lexw Dec 2012 #9
snappyturtle Dec 2012 #17
davidpdx Dec 2012 #18
lexw Dec 2012 #22
SCVDem Dec 2012 #11
ReRe Dec 2012 #21
calimary Dec 2012 #41
werknotgoin2takeit Dec 2012 #13
calimary Dec 2012 #42
defacto7 Dec 2012 #15
malaise Dec 2012 #27
idwiyo Dec 2012 #30
RagAss Dec 2012 #45
ellisonz Dec 2012 #47

Response to cal04 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:37 PM

1. Guess who was right all along gun nutters?

yep!

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Response to upi402 (Reply #1)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 12:07 AM

6. +1000

RL

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Response to upi402 (Reply #1)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:55 AM

14. That's why they went after him. And that's why the Big Insurance Corps

went after him. And why the Bush administration went after him.

Everyone should watch all of his documentaries again.

'Bowling for Colombine'. He told the the truth about the Gun Lobby/Culture and how dangerous it was and how Congress cooperates with them.

'Fahrenheit 9/11': He told the truth about Bush's wars and Congress' collusion with the MIC, when the media faild to do so.

'Capitalism A Love Story': He told the truth about Wall St, the corruption, the deception, and the collusion of Congress.

In just those three documentaries alone, he told more truth than all the media put together over the past two decades.

They spent millions trying to shut him up and smearing him.

Whenever I see anyone who claims to be on the 'left' slamming him, and Kucinich and a the small number of courageous and outspoken Americans who have had the guts to tell the truth, I wonder about them because the are repeating right wing smears.

Michael Moore is a real patriot.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #14)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 02:38 AM

19. Same here, sabrina 1

..."Michael Moore is a Patriot"... you can say that again x 1,000. I read thru his tweets and they were amazing. Many links of references to what he was telling us. Yeah, Michael is a "keeper".

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #14)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:04 AM

28. +1,000

Wish I could rec this post

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #14)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 12:36 PM

31. And don't forget -

Sicko.

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Response to upi402 (Reply #1)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 12:54 PM

34. another +1

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:44 PM

2. i love michael moore eom

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Response to cilla4progress (Reply #2)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:46 AM

12. We all love MM

But what is eom?

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Response to Left Coast2020 (Reply #12)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:56 AM

24. eom = end of message

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:45 PM

3. Gun lobby on the ropes. FINISH THEM!!!

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Response to morningfog (Reply #3)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 12:05 AM

4. How specifically? nm

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #4)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:19 AM

10. In EVERY way possible.

NOW is the time to storm Congress - AND YOUR REPS' REGIONAL OFFICES - with emails, tweets, Facebook posts, cards, letters, phone calls - WHATEVER KIND OF COMMUNICATION YOU CAN COME UP WITH. Get. The. Word. OUT. THERE.

NOW is the time to do likewise with your Senators. BOTH of them. I don't care which party. As Michael Moore and others here have pointed out - the NRA and gun apologists are on the defensive at this moment, and you're not hearing squat outta them. They're temporarily in hiding. All those voices speaking up now and mewling that "now is not the time," including that jackass White House Press Secretary, couldn't be more wrong.

NOW is the time to do likewise with the White House, and storm the switchboard and the mail room and the email and website contact points.

NOW is the time to storm the newspapers - print and online - and news magazines and online outlets with comments urging change.

NOW is the time to try to call in or tweet or text on talk shows.

NOW is the time to post on the MSNBC website, the individual shows, their Twitter pages and their Facebook pages.

NOW is the time to overrun and outshout the NRA and all gun-apologists, and push against them HARD. We may never have another opportunity to make a dent in this problem! Hell, we regulate CHURCHES before we even begin to touch gun "rights."

NOW is the time to put them on the defensive. And hit 'em HARD, RUTHLESSLY, AND WITHOUT MERCY. For example, anyone who speaks up about how their precious fucking gun rights can't be compromised, then it should be put straight into their faces the following framing: "SO. You're saying that YOUR right to have unfettered, unrestricted, free-and-easy access to your precious guns is MORE important than those innocent children's lives and keeping them safe." "SO. Your right to have free and unlimited access to murder devices overrides the right of our kids to go to school in the morning and be safe and assured they're gonna be alive by the end of the school day." (SERIOUSLY. Go draconian! Go outlandish! Go to extremes!) "So basically, if you're insisting that we can't possibly toughen gun restrictions, then, YOU'RE SAYING YOU'RE OKAY WITH THIS. YOU'RE SAYING THAT THESE MASSACRES ARE OKAY AND NO BIG DEAL. That IS what you're saying when you're clinging to your gun 'rights'. You're saying that it's NO BIG DEAL IF THESE MASSACRES KEEP HAPPENING. So what is it, then, just 'the cost of doing business? Is THAT it????" SERIOUSLY. Put them on the defensive. Make them have to defend this shit. Make them have to explain how their precious gun worship is more sacrosanct than those children's lives - demand that they explain themselves to some of those grieving mothers and fathers!!!

NOW. The time is NOW. If we wait - yet again, for the umpteenth time after umpteen gun massacres and murders - until emotions quiet down and the mourning period is past (yeah? When is THAT???) - then you start getting eaten by ants.

Then the naysayers come out and start chipping away at the resolve that had built up to make definitive changes.

Then the "yeah, but" crowd steps up and takes over and sucks all the oxygen out of the public discussion.

Then the folks with all the "well, you really can't... blah-blah-blah fill in the blank here" concerns, like this woman I know who kept coming up with this "devil's advocate" shit about how you can't do this or you can't do that or this won't be possible or that will be unworkable start rearing their ugly heads. Then you're drowning in talking points and counter-arguments and hand-wringing that's designed to shoot down and defeat any zeal toward addressing this stuff and getting something done, once and for all.

It's a multi-pronged approach. I say we rub their noses in it. REPEATEDLY and RELENTLESSLY. Put them on defense. Force them to defend their attitude that their fucking guns are more important than keeping our children safe in their own schools! Force the cheapskate tax haters and avoiders to explain why they must keep taxes low and continue cutting mental health programs and the funding thereof. This is really broad-based. There are MANY MANY aspects to this issue, and many directions from which to come at it, and many different solutions to the multiple aspects of it. And we have to look to them all.

But most important? TIMING. SEIZING THE TIME WHEN IT COMES. SEIZING the opportunity. Put this tragedy to use - so that we actually might have a chance to prevent them from happening again. I have yet to meet or hear or read the comments of ANY mom or dad of a murdered child who DOESN'T say some version of "I want to do everything I can to make sure this never happens again - to ANY other mother and father!" Let's ALL take up that mantle and wear it like body armor.

And if we don't gain any ground on one part of it, then go find a weak spot in another aspect of it and tackle THAT. I REFUSE to believe that all doors are closed, all windows are barred, all gates are locked, and all minds are shut regarding conquering this issue.

Basically, WE have to become like the radical right-to-lifers, or the ALEC people, or the network of schemers hellbent on ANY way to destroy unions or the right to vote. Notice how many different ways they've gone about their objectives? Notice how many different ways they find to attack and undermine? WE HAVE TO START DOING THAT, TOO!!!

I keep thinking back to the sensei at our neighborhood karate school. He was a champion kickboxer and sparring ace, and he constantly told us - "keep 'em busy. Keep 'em busy." Never stop jabbing. Never stop looking for an opening. Never let up. Keep 'em busy. He even told us about one fighter he knew who injured his arm in a match. All he could do was jab. His opponent was uninjured and could throw kicks and punches of all kinds. But this guy wouldn't give up. If all he could do is jab, he just kept on jabbing. Never let up. Kept 'em coming. Kept 'em coming. Unrelenting. He rained jabs down upon the opponent. They just kept coming and coming one on top of the other, as fast as possible. And he actually won the match.

That's the approach we have to take. Because we're up against an opponent with UNBELIEVABLE capability to throw kicks and punches of all kinds.

It's LONG past time.

(on edit - AW CRAP, sorry this was so long...)

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Response to calimary (Reply #10)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:59 AM

16. You said it well.

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Response to gtar100 (Reply #16)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:14 PM

38. Thank you. I hope everyone who reads it starts getting ideas.

And then, I hope they ACT on those ideas as far as influencing public opinion, and representatives' opinions.

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Response to calimary (Reply #10)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 03:02 AM

20. calimary, this needs to go OP!

Don't apologize for the length of your reply to the above. You have passion. Never ever give up your passion. I was glued to the TV all day Friday, flipping channels to get the latest news. Everything was changing every 5 minutes. And when they finally came out with the truth, I COULD NOT believe my ears! Those weren't kindergarteners or 1st graders. Those were 20 BABIES! And 6 of their educators!

The time has come, finally, after so much carnage. After so many innocents slaughtered through the years. Gun control now! And Mental Health Care now!

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Response to ReRe (Reply #20)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 12:53 PM

33. Done, ReRe!

I took your suggestion:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022008662

It could use a little love at the moment so it doesn't sink into oblivion.

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Response to calimary (Reply #10)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:24 AM

23. Well said, thank you. We have a lot of post saying we need to do something and not many

explaining what specifically. You did it well.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #23)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 12:52 PM

32. Thanks! I find that's true a lot.

I always skip straight over to the "HOW can we do this, HOW do we push through the inevitable obstacles?" Anybody who has an idea - I'd welcome it here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022008662

...since I was invited to make this an OP of its own. I just think it's important to get people thinking and strategizing. What kind of pages can we take from the bad guys, the CONS, the wrong-wing think tanks and other sources of research and strategy and tactics. How can we take a page from their book of what works, and why can't we make that work for us? Why can't we make it work for the greater good, for a change, instead of just for the elites and insiders and the haves and the have-mores?

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Response to calimary (Reply #10)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:01 AM

25. I'm recommending this post as best post of the day!

You go girl!

Everything she said + more.

I'm starting today with an email letter to the asshat Governor of my state, Rick Snyder telling him to VETO THAT BILL.

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Response to llmart (Reply #25)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:05 PM

36. Thanks!

You unfortunately have the plague of a republi-CON governor - especially one of these ALEC monsters who talked nice early-on, to lull everybody into complacency, and then went on an extremist rampage once he got settled in comfortably in the governor's mansion. And it may not move him. It may not move many of them.

HOWEVER...

It WILL give him a sense of the rising tide AGAINST him and those who agree with him. It WILL give him a sense of destabilization - he won't feel on such sure ground anymore. He won't feel he has sure solid footing anymore. He WILL get a sense of walls starting to close in on him. He may react as an extremist would - and try like hell to do as much damage as possible before he's hosed outta there, and lock in as much of that CONservative evil as he can before your state has an enlightenment and a regime change. It MIGHT crack the facade. Or not. But at the very least, you don't want them at ease with an easy slide into their own hellish home base. You want their path full of rocks, weeds, downed trees, and other obstructions that prevent them from getting to their own sick, evil, selfish, greedy finish line (the kind of finish line that finishes the rest of us!).

FOR EXAMPLE - we Dems have to be a LOT more shrewd and savvy about the need to secure statehouses around the country for DEMOCRATS - especially at the decade mark. Every ten years, there's a census, and a review of the physical layout of districts and THAT is where gerrymandering can and does happen, stacking the deck so republi-CONS have an easier time winning. See how these fiends think? See how these weasels operate, and strategize, and always seem to stay a step ahead of us? By the time we realize what's happening, they've locked a bunch of serious damage into the system - against unions, against women's rights, against voting rights, the works.

SO WHY AREN'T WE DEMS completely LASER-FOCUSED on retaking governors' offices at the decade mark? Because what we need is OUR people in there when it comes time to look at census numbers and redraw congressional districts? Either to safeguard Democratic districts and Democratic advantages, or to head off state legislatures' efforts to mess things up and stack the deck for the GOP.

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Response to calimary (Reply #10)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 11:08 AM

29. How about insuring guns?

Along the lines of car insurance, a mandatory policy for every gun you own. No multi-gun discounts either.
Bigger the gun, more rounds it could fire, whatever, the higher your premium.

Look where car insurance has been taken to, devices in our cars to track our "driving habits", etc.

We can let the insurance companies figure out the fine details and to make money you know they will.

They will see it as a great way to make some bucks.

Making gun control a political issue is just a way of starting arguments, look at most of the posts across this
board today. Take gun control out of the political arena, move it into the capitalist arena.

I for one would love to see the battle between insurance companies and the NRA.

I can see RFID tags built into guns, some technology that would make the weapon respond only to the owner, etc.

This could also limit gun ownership. Most would not be able to afford policies on multiple guns.

Let capitalism take care of the problem. Would it stop all the problems we have with guns? No. But it could be a start,
a non-political start, to reducing incidents like we have had this past week.

This is my wifes idea and was floated at a pre-Christmas get together we had this weekend.
This part of the family are hunters and gun owners. All agreed it was an idea worth thinking about.

My wife has written Micheal Moore with her idea.


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Response to N_E_1 for Tennis (Reply #29)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:03 PM

35. The BIG problem with that ....

...it is extremely Regressive.
The RICH will get to own all the guns they want.
The poor son of a bitch that actually NEEDS a gun to feed his kids
will be taxed again.

I live in a rural area (Ouachita Mountains, Arkansas) where desperate poverty is a BIG problem.
Many families count on hunting to feed their families (Sad but TRUE).
Venison is a local medium of exchange,
and is a common a Christmas gift to neighbors for those who have NO money.

The other problem will be getting Americans to honestly report Gun Ownership so that they can be taxed.
Good Luck with THAT.


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Response to bvar22 (Reply #35)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:25 PM

39. Okay then, you've identified another aspect of that which needs to be addressed.

Problem? Okay then. Game on! Let's do what the republi-CONS always do - figure out a way AROUND the problem. Figure out a way to GET RID of the problem. Figure out a way to PLOW THROUGH the problem or change the terms of the problem or reframe the problem and CHANGE it.

Put your thinking cap on and get creative. AND DON'T GIVE UP if you meet with obstruction at first.

If nothing else - offer calcium supplement to the backbones of people like Senator Dianne Feinstein of California, who's actually stepping up with a bill to introduce in the Senate. Send a thank-you to people like Senator Joe Manchin of West Virginia for changing and opening his mind - AWAY from his staunch knee-jerk anything-you-want support of the NRA. Send an attaboy message to Mayor Bloomberg because he's definitely among the good guys in this department and he's showing some wonderfully loud and vehement and high-profile leadership on this. Find the ones whose opinions are changing for the better and encourage them. Identify the waverers in Congress and the Senate and join a pile-on to push them to get with OUR program instead of the NRA's, because the tide is now noticeably turning and we need to capitalize on it. There are TONS of ways to get at this and get some good results. TONS of ways. And every time you run into somebody who has a discouraging word (I did last night on the phone with a friend), just plow straight through that. It's just their comfort zone - "aw, nothing's gonna happen. We can't do anything. The other guys have too much money and power. There's nothing gonna change." BULLSHIT. This issue has so many facets that, okay - if you can't get through the front door on one of 'em, find another one and go through the front door there. Or find a back door or a side window if you can't get through the front door.

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #35)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:39 PM

43. Well then stop boxing the nation into your corner

Reply from my wife, this was her idea and wanted her to explain.

Regressive thinking can also be applying a small specific situation to an entire nation. The last time I heard about a mass shooting or a gun being used for a mass shooting in yours or other rural areas like yours was....can't think of one. Let's worry about the application for your small niche when it happens. I am sure that there are a lot of rules, laws or regulations that are not enforced in your area such as auto insurance just to name one.

Enforcement and compliance will start from the densely populated areas out. I am sure that there would be groups that would help people that needed guns for food. However, if the person that needed that gun for food was mentally unstable and/or a sociopath maybe you and all of us would be better off if he didn't have one. I just want to depoliticize the problem of responsible gun ownership in order to make it a reality.

Insurance companies will figure out how to keep rates down for responsible owners (and still make a profit - the new American way) all based on their tables and shall we say your "caliber rating" from TRW and others! Certainly guns already in circulation will be the biggest problem to organize, but does that mean we shouldn't try? The technology today tracks my cell phone where ever it goes; how about RFID tags to track guns? We had a freeway shooter here in southeast Michigan just a few months ago. How great it would have been that all new guns and all other guns certified for insurance to have the requirement of a tag and to be registered in a ballistics database. The first bullet recovered would have led them to the gun and there wouldn't have been several months of fear just driving on the freeway.

What is also extremely regressive is just dismissing an opportunity to civilize our society instead of trying to figure out how to make it work in your community since you can recognize your specific issues. Heck, it might even create a few jobs to help alleviate some poverty.

And the rich have had, have and always will have everything that they want. To me that is just a cliche used to perpetuate negative thinking.

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Response to N_E_1 for Tennis (Reply #43)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:17 PM

46. Stop boxing the nation into MY corner?

What corner is THAT?
The "Working Class Blue Collar Assholes who are having a hard time making ends meet" corner?
Well, YEAH, that IS my corner,
but there are a WHOLE lot of people in this corner with me.


Will you deny that Taxing Gun Ownership is a "Regressive Tax"?
...one that adversely affects the POOR much more than the RICH?
Please attempt to do so.

The RICH can buy and Keep ALL the guns they want to,
but you poor people....gotta give them up!

How do you think THAT is going to go over "in MY corner".

Are you familiar with the term "Gish Gallop"?
(AKA "Argument by verbosity")
You should be, because your entire 2nd and 3rd paragraphs are a perfect example of a the Gish Gallop Logical Fallacy.
"The Gish Gallop, named after creationist Duane Gish, is the debating technique of drowning the opponent in such a torrent of half-truths, lies, and straw-man arguments that the opponent cannot possibly answer every falsehood in real time. The term was coined by Eugenie Scott of the National Center for Science Education. Sam Harris describes the technique as "starting 10 fires in 10 minutes."

The formal debating jargon term for this is spreading. It arose as a way to throw as much rubbish into five minutes as possible. In response, some debate judges now limit number of arguments as well as time. However, in places where debating judges aren't there to call bullshit on the practice, like the internet, such techniques are remarkably common. "


Now, are you willing to call for Regressive Taxation to solve this problem?
The Democratic Party has slid so FAR to the Political Right in the last 20 years, and DU so far to the Regressive Right in the last 5 years that I would no longer be shocked to find someone on DU supporting Regressive taxation.

If you wish to debate any of the other topics included in your shotgun attack,
I am more than happy to do so,
but PLEASE be specific, and stay on topic.

Thank You.

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Response to N_E_1 for Tennis (Reply #29)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:13 PM

37. Why not? It's a GREAT idea. Another great idea - that deserves attention and action.

This is good stuff! Because we need to attack this problem from ALL SIDES, not just one or two. It's a multi-pronged problem that involves taking as many guns away as possible, cracking down legislatively, USE the increasing public support for raising taxes - to point out that among the first things that get cut at the state level, after education, are mental health funding and funding for mental health facilities. ronald reagan cut the funding for the California state mental hospitals, and all of a sudden, in Santa Monica for example, there literally were mounds of homeless people on the sidewalks and parks and in doorways. Because of reagan's cheapskate, heartless, penny-wise/pound-foolish funding cuts, these people abruptly had nowhere to go and they were literally turned out onto the streets. I still hate ronald reagan for that.

I tell ya - if I were in a position of power, I'd be the one on a never-ending holy quest to UN-name all those freeways and schools and institutions and memorial bridges and libraries and airports and centers that were renamed for him by CONservative zealots. I'd rip all those ronald reagan labels off and restore them to their former names and try to erase his name from the public arena as much as possible. He's the LAST person on earth who should be glorified like that. I'd start with the stupid-ass ronald reagan freeway out here, and what should STILL be Washington National Airport in Washington DC. That man's policies did more damage and injury to Americans than just about anybody else before or since, except for maybe george w. dry-drunk.

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Response to calimary (Reply #37)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:40 PM

44. Thx calimary !! n/t

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 12:06 AM

5. KnR for Michael Moore

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 12:47 AM

7. Just one quibble

The NRA didn't say anything for ten days after the Aurora shooting (at least on their twitter feed). The silence is telling. My pro-gun, heavily lobbied by the NRA congressman (Tim Walz) never comments after a devastating mass shooting.

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Response to FunkyLeprechaun (Reply #7)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:03 AM

26. Yeah, they're like cockroaches when things like this happen....

they crawl back into the woodwork only to come back out when they think the coast is clear. Well, this time when they even try to crawl back out we need to do exactly what calimary is advocating in her post.

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Response to FunkyLeprechaun (Reply #7)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:30 PM

40. Then maybe he has to be forced to make his stand public.

If you stand by the NRA and insist that all gun ownership of any kind is sacrosanct and untouchable, then man up and say so. Let us all see in the light of day how you feel and how instantly out of touch you are. If you still embrace this shit, then you need to be outed about it. You need to stand in the sunshine and own it full-on, SO EVERYONE CAN SEE. We need to know if these reps of ours stand on the Dark Side. And we need to spread the word about it. Maybe they should start fearing US - being primaried by US, 'eh? They never take us seriously, and usually, this just all goes away after awhile because of benign neglect, because people get tired of fighting and give up after one adverse response or setback, or they think others will do the hard work so they can just roll over and go back to sleep. Hey, it might be THEIR kid next time!

We need to put it in their faces. Put them on the spot. Shine a light on the cockroaches so everybody can see who and where they are and watch where they try to scatter and hide. Let's put it out there in the public square - where are they getting their money? Whose back pocket are they living in? Who do they work for - the NRA or the potential innocent shooting victims we ALL are, in this country? They don't want to talk about this now, all they've got is - "now is not the time blah-blah-blah..." Because they know this is a BAD time to talk about the issue since the public is so - pardon the pun - fired up about it. They want the noise to die down so they can go back to business as usual and not worry about being held accountable. They want to stay under the radar so they can keep taking money from the NRA and keep defending wanton, reckless free access to guns. The last thing they want is for the light to shine on them and for people to start asking them "who's yer daddy?" and "who do you work for?" and "who owns yer ass?" DRAG THEM OUT INTO THE OPEN AND FORCE THEM TO FACE THE CONSEQUENCES OF THEIR ACTIONS AND AFFILIATIONS AND FINANCIAL BACKING.

NO MORE!!!!!!!!!!! DAMMIT!!!!!! NO MORE!!!!!!!

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:10 AM

8. Now is an excellent time to support the Brady Campaign...

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:15 AM

9. In a Southern California (Newport Beach) mall, a man pulled out a gun

and began shooting about 50 shots in the air, before officers on bicycles took him into custody. And then there's the motorcycle gang guy in northern Indiana who threatened to shoot up the elementary school some 1000 feet from his house.

This is waaaaaaaaaay fucking out of hand.

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Response to lexw (Reply #9)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 02:06 AM

17. In Cedar Lake IN police arrested 60 yr. old armed to the teeth who had

announced he was going to kill as many as possible at the near by grade school. He is being held without bond....read it in the Guardian...amazing.

Three dead in AL this weekend too. It's GOT to stop.

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Response to lexw (Reply #9)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 02:22 AM

18. Agreed

I'm sure all of law enforcement around the country is on high alert and will be for months after this. We are really only hearing about the shootings that are actually carried out, think of how many law enforcement have probably foiled due to tips or suspicious activity.

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Response to davidpdx (Reply #18)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 03:41 AM

22. That is very true. We don't hear about the people who are stopped.

....on a side note, I was driving out to the beach area tonight at 5pm to go on a run.

While I was at a long stop light, I reached down to remove the alarm remote from the keychain (because I don't like to carry the keys with me while I run—only the remote). I think the car to my left must thought I was doing something with a gun, because as I was removing the remote from the keychain he backed up his car several feet. Then, a couple minutes later when the light changed (it's a 7 point intersection so there's a long wait), he gunned and screeched his car into his left turn to get out of there.

I guess this is what we'll be dealing with for some time.

I hate guns. And have never used one in my life.

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:32 AM

11. Why don't we call it what it is?

This is domestic terrorism.

If the weapon was a bomb vest we would be quick to call it a terrorist act.

The Republicans are quibbling about Benghazi being a terrorist act with four dead.

Don't look now assholes. This is terrorism with firearms. There are more than four dead.

Will they give it the same airtime they did Libya?

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Response to SCVDem (Reply #11)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 03:16 AM

21. Wasn't that about 3 weeks of whining over Susan Rice?

Yeah, let's count the days they whine about the Newtown school killings. 3 weeks of growling at the NRA. That's what I want to hear. And they're 4 days behind right now.

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Response to SCVDem (Reply #11)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:33 PM

41. It ABSOLUTELY IS Domestic Terrorism!!!!

I've been pushing for that one myself for awhile now. These people should be labeled domestic terrorists. "Well, then, I guess you side with the domestic terrorists." "So you support domestic terrorism then?"

And these assault rifles need to be referred to by a new name: The REAL Weapons of Mass Destruction. How could anybody look at what happened with the mass murder on Friday - and NOT recognize them as such?

The bad guys are determined. They're not gonna give up the ground they've gained willingly or easily. But our determination MUST be stronger and greater than theirs.

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:48 AM

13. Bad Apples

{Cross posted from another thread but thought it would work in this one as well. Plus I love Michael Moore and I wish we had listened to his prescience years ago and maybe those sweet little ones would still be alive. Those pictures tear me apart, they were all even lovelier than I imagined.}


One of the main conservative arguments for lower taxes is that it stifles growth and the job creators won’t create jobs. In practice, if this were true, America would be swimming in jobs. It is proven false in practice no matter how loud Republicans scream. Now with this horrible shooting, gun proponents say that only more guns will make us safer. Let's arm the teachers and the students, lets have armed guards on campus, lets put us all into permanent lock down.

Well lets look at that, “In the period between 1968 and 1992, gun ownership in the U.S. increased 135 percent--and during that same period, handgun ownership increase 300percent.” AND “As historian Michael Bellesiles notes, during the time between the American Revolution and the Civil War, no more than one-tenth of the American population owned guns.”

http://www.faqs.org/health/topics/9/Gun-control.html#ixzz2FGevImzv

AND “There were 1.5 million guns produced in the United States in 1950, 5.6 million in 1980, but astoundingly in 2010 there were 47-53 million households in the U.S. with guns.”

http://www.chacha.com/question/how-many-people-owned-guns-in-the-usa-in-1950%2C1980%2C-2010

AND “Forty-seven percent of American adults currently report that they have a gun in their home or elsewhere on their property. This is up from 41% a year ago and is the highest Gallup has recorded since 1993, albeit marginally above the 44% and 45% highs seen during that period.”

http://www.gallup.com/poll/150353/Self-Reported-Gun-Ownership-Highest-1993.aspx

So, if gun ownership makes us safer, why have we seen the inverse? The more guns Americans acquire the more violent our society becomes.

Personally, these shootings are a symptom of a deep sickness in our society, a pathology rooted deep. Other countries have guns and although violence does happen, it’s not with the frequency or savagery or high death counts we are continually witnessing here. I don’t know the answer; all I know is that we have to do something. We have tried more guns and more guns and more guns, it is not working. We don’t have to live this way, its time for a new approach. The saying goes that a few bad apples destroy the whole bunch. I have had my life impacted over the years by these few bad apples, mostly in relation to flying by plane. Why should gun owners be any different? There have been too many bad apples lately and so those who own guns responsibly or not must pay the price for that. That is part of living in civilized society, where the needs of the many should outweigh the wants of the few. If we can no longer abide by what is, its time to change it, in this case far past time. As Michael said, I can feel the change, a shift in our consciousness. A sleeping giant is awakening and boy is he pissed.

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Response to werknotgoin2takeit (Reply #13)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:35 PM

42. Welcome to DU, werknotgoin2takeit!

All good points here.

This is a MULTI-PRONGED approach. It's a many-headed hydra from Hell. We need ALL KINDS of approaches - targeting ALL ASPECTS of this issue.

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:57 AM

15. Bowling for Columbine

Time to watch that movie again. Great picture of the American gun and fear society.

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:03 AM

27. Yep he's right

This is the last effin' straw

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 12:21 PM

30. K&R

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:50 PM

45. He's been right since "Roger and Me".

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 08:18 PM

47. Kick. I'd like to thank Michael Moore for taking the bastards on. n/t

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