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Tue Nov 13, 2012, 01:59 PM

The Democratic Party is walking on thin ice....

Yes, they just won an overwhelming mandate of an election. But they act as if they won nothing.

They are about to piss away the next election with their actions and their words. There will be a lot of people that will make them pay the next time around. Of course, the President does not have to run again but other Democrats do. They are fucking up big time with their post-election compromise bullshit.

Their support may be a mile wide but, in many places, it is an inch deep. They don't get another shot. This is it. If they blow it, don't blame it on the left wing liberals. Just look in the fucking mirror.

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Reply The Democratic Party is walking on thin ice.... (Original post)
kentuck Nov 2012 OP
hollysmom Nov 2012 #1
gateley Nov 2012 #27
liberalmike27 Nov 2012 #57
DonCoquixote Nov 2012 #151
RepublicansRZombies Nov 2012 #159
truedelphi Nov 2012 #202
butterfly77 Nov 2012 #94
gateley Nov 2012 #137
kardonb Nov 2012 #100
gateley Nov 2012 #138
ladjf Nov 2012 #177
MineralMan Nov 2012 #2
kentuck Nov 2012 #4
MineralMan Nov 2012 #16
Egalitarian Thug Nov 2012 #105
MineralMan Nov 2012 #111
Egalitarian Thug Nov 2012 #117
MineralMan Nov 2012 #119
xtraxritical Nov 2012 #122
Egalitarian Thug Nov 2012 #145
AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2012 #127
MineralMan Nov 2012 #132
AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2012 #139
Egalitarian Thug Nov 2012 #146
Doctor_J Nov 2012 #164
PoliticAverse Nov 2012 #31
MineralMan Nov 2012 #49
AgingAmerican Nov 2012 #3
go west young man Nov 2012 #86
Overseas Nov 2012 #204
ProSense Nov 2012 #5
kentuck Nov 2012 #7
randome Nov 2012 #19
JohnnyRingo Nov 2012 #62
rhett o rick Nov 2012 #69
Hissyspit Nov 2012 #124
brokechris Nov 2012 #169
HiPointDem Nov 2012 #81
ProudProgressiveNow Nov 2012 #84
Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #28
kentuck Nov 2012 #30
Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #36
kentuck Nov 2012 #39
Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #51
sheshe2 Nov 2012 #87
Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #95
George II Nov 2012 #52
kentuck Nov 2012 #63
emulatorloo Nov 2012 #90
kentuck Nov 2012 #93
emulatorloo Nov 2012 #99
kentuck Nov 2012 #102
emulatorloo Nov 2012 #104
kentuck Nov 2012 #110
George II Nov 2012 #141
George II Nov 2012 #148
AlbertCat Nov 2012 #135
demwing Nov 2012 #33
George II Nov 2012 #44
George II Nov 2012 #149
Egalitarian Thug Nov 2012 #107
sinkingfeeling Nov 2012 #6
young but wise Nov 2012 #14
1StrongBlackMan Nov 2012 #15
Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #29
Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2012 #78
Comrade_McKenzie Nov 2012 #8
kentuck Nov 2012 #10
MineralMan Nov 2012 #17
George II Nov 2012 #155
underoath Nov 2012 #9
ohheckyeah Nov 2012 #11
underoath Nov 2012 #162
ohheckyeah Nov 2012 #163
underoath Nov 2012 #165
ohheckyeah Nov 2012 #167
underoath Nov 2012 #168
ohheckyeah Nov 2012 #170
underoath Nov 2012 #174
ohheckyeah Nov 2012 #190
underoath Nov 2012 #195
Kingofalldems Nov 2012 #172
underoath Nov 2012 #173
Kingofalldems Nov 2012 #176
underoath Nov 2012 #182
ohheckyeah Nov 2012 #191
underoath Nov 2012 #196
ohheckyeah Nov 2012 #194
underoath Nov 2012 #197
Telly Savalas Nov 2012 #211
ohheckyeah Nov 2012 #213
Kingofalldems Nov 2012 #171
truedelphi Nov 2012 #203
underoath Nov 2012 #207
Care Acutely Nov 2012 #154
underoath Nov 2012 #166
ohheckyeah Nov 2012 #192
underoath Nov 2012 #198
ohheckyeah Nov 2012 #199
underoath Nov 2012 #206
ohheckyeah Nov 2012 #210
leveymg Nov 2012 #12
kentuck Nov 2012 #13
leveymg Nov 2012 #18
Cleita Nov 2012 #20
kentuck Nov 2012 #21
Cleita Nov 2012 #24
The Wizard Nov 2012 #115
BlueMan Votes Nov 2012 #92
gravity Nov 2012 #22
kentuck Nov 2012 #23
gravity Nov 2012 #25
yardwork Nov 2012 #34
gravity Nov 2012 #66
yardwork Nov 2012 #70
kentuck Nov 2012 #72
gravity Nov 2012 #157
yardwork Nov 2012 #158
woo me with science Nov 2012 #212
rhett o rick Nov 2012 #71
Doctor_J Nov 2012 #140
hrmjustin Nov 2012 #26
treestar Nov 2012 #60
NYC Liberal Nov 2012 #82
yardwork Nov 2012 #32
The Second Stone Nov 2012 #35
Egalitarian Thug Nov 2012 #109
elleng Nov 2012 #37
mac56 Nov 2012 #38
Lilyeye Nov 2012 #153
bluestate10 Nov 2012 #184
loyalkydem Nov 2012 #40
NHDEMFORLIFE Nov 2012 #41
kentuck Nov 2012 #46
NHDEMFORLIFE Nov 2012 #73
George II Nov 2012 #42
WilliamPitt Nov 2012 #43
2naSalit Nov 2012 #56
Jennicut Nov 2012 #76
eridani Nov 2012 #205
Douglas Carpenter Nov 2012 #45
Missn-Hitch Nov 2012 #47
JohnnyRingo Nov 2012 #48
bluestate10 Nov 2012 #186
JNelson6563 Nov 2012 #50
bluestate10 Nov 2012 #187
zaj Nov 2012 #53
kentuck Nov 2012 #54
AtomicKitten Nov 2012 #55
treestar Nov 2012 #58
rhett o rick Nov 2012 #74
evilhime Nov 2012 #59
treestar Nov 2012 #61
heaven05 Nov 2012 #64
sheshe2 Nov 2012 #65
sharp_stick Nov 2012 #67
99Forever Nov 2012 #68
Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2012 #75
drm604 Nov 2012 #77
NYC Liberal Nov 2012 #79
kentuck Nov 2012 #83
emulatorloo Nov 2012 #80
John2 Nov 2012 #97
RepublicansRZombies Nov 2012 #85
ProudProgressiveNow Nov 2012 #88
kentuck Nov 2012 #91
ProudProgressiveNow Nov 2012 #98
Tierra_y_Libertad Nov 2012 #89
Hutzpa Nov 2012 #96
JEB Nov 2012 #101
JEB Nov 2012 #103
billh58 Nov 2012 #106
Egalitarian Thug Nov 2012 #113
billh58 Nov 2012 #120
Egalitarian Thug Nov 2012 #143
Aerows Nov 2012 #108
The Wizard Nov 2012 #112
Egalitarian Thug Nov 2012 #114
JEB Nov 2012 #144
Oilwellian Nov 2012 #147
ProSense Nov 2012 #116
Autumn Nov 2012 #118
horsedoc Nov 2012 #121
kentuck Nov 2012 #125
Ed Suspicious Nov 2012 #123
bluestate10 Nov 2012 #188
OKNancy Nov 2012 #126
kentuck Nov 2012 #129
bluestate10 Nov 2012 #189
lillypaddle Nov 2012 #128
kentuck Nov 2012 #130
babylonsister Nov 2012 #131
kentuck Nov 2012 #133
babylonsister Nov 2012 #134
kentuck Nov 2012 #136
butterfly77 Nov 2012 #142
Summer Hathaway Nov 2012 #150
marasinghe Nov 2012 #152
AtheistCrusader Nov 2012 #156
meti57b Nov 2012 #160
woo me with science Nov 2012 #161
Octafish Nov 2012 #175
Dyedinthewoolliberal Nov 2012 #178
madrchsod Nov 2012 #179
hughee99 Nov 2012 #180
still_one Nov 2012 #181
bluestate10 Nov 2012 #183
NightOwwl Nov 2012 #185
Lydia Leftcoast Nov 2012 #193
rudycantfail Nov 2012 #200
Lydia Leftcoast Nov 2012 #201
woo me with science Nov 2012 #208
woo me with science Nov 2012 #209

Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:01 PM

1. I am not quite as discouraged as you are

Neither is Paul Krugman.

Do you think they will read him?

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Response to hollysmom (Reply #1)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:41 PM

27. I wish they consulted with him -- even just to have another viewpoint on

the table, but I have the feeling they don't acknowledge him.

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Response to gateley (Reply #27)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:10 PM

57. Agreed

But I'd like to wait and see it develop.

But the giving in rhetoric is kind of sad, a corporate media led thing, like Gregory asking if there was a role for Mitt in Obama's administration--WTF??

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Response to liberalmike27 (Reply #57)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 02:37 AM

151. If you think David gregory is a liberal

You have missed a detail here and there.

Despite rachel, MSNBC is not about liberialism, it is about managing liberalism to the point where it does not threaten the powers that be.

That does NOT mean, that they speak for us.

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Response to DonCoquixote (Reply #151)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 01:15 PM

159. "managing liberalism to the point where it does not threaten the powers that be"

 

exactly what they are doing, and many posters telling us to shut up as well.

WE WON the election, but they still expect to have all the power.

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Response to DonCoquixote (Reply #151)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 01:06 AM

202. Verywell said. Thank you. n/t

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Response to gateley (Reply #27)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:58 PM

94. I just got done...

writing my congressmen and women,and senators. My friends and family are doing the same we don't want to see what we saw last time Dems trying to play both sides of the fence especially Bluedogs. Now,I notice Evan Bayh is back pretending to be a Democrat again.

We need to make clear to our elected officials that we are watching them and that we are not going to sleep like in 2010 when these teabaggers start jumping out there we need to slap them right back down with their lies and rhetoric..

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Response to butterfly77 (Reply #94)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 05:20 PM

137. Agree -- I've contacted my reps, too, just saying WE call the shots, now, don't back down!

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Response to gateley (Reply #27)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:06 PM

100. wish...

win something , and decisively , and right away the nay-sayers and booers and critics come out of the woodwork . NOTHING EVER pleases them ! Lets be realistic here : you can't please all the people all the time , period . We have to compromise on some things to achieve more harmony . We are the UNITED STATES of America .

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Response to kardonb (Reply #100)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 05:22 PM

138. Did you mean to respond to my post?

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Response to hollysmom (Reply #1)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 10:56 AM

177. The President needs to use Krugman as an economic adviser. nt

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:02 PM

2. You are aware that the new Congress won't take office until next year?

Right now, Obama's still dealing with the old one.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #2)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:03 PM

4. There is no need for him to be making any concessions....

Let the Republicans tell us what they will do?

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Response to kentuck (Reply #4)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:21 PM

16. You know, I don't remember him making any concessions.

Maybe I missed something following the election. There's all this about Generals and stuff, so I might have missed his concession speech. Do provide a link, if you don't mind.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #16)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:13 PM

105. If you wait until it's done, it's too late. n/t

 

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Response to Egalitarian Thug (Reply #105)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:23 PM

111. If you assume that he will do it, with no indication that he will,

then you'll worry a lot. People have been assuming that President Obama will "slash" SS and Medicare since 2009. He doesn't show any signs of doing that, but people are still saying he's going to.

I've emailed him and all of my legislators more than once, expressing concern that they not do that. Beyond that, I don't think they will.

Assume the best and communicate your concerns. That's what I do. They're not reading DU, so I think that works better than writing about it here.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #111)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:34 PM

117. Assume the best and be slaughtered along with the rest of the sheep.

 

Assuming the best has got us into this position, and in light of the constant test balloons floated (FICA withholding break, cat food commission, etc.), it is essential that we remain vigilant and loud.

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Response to Egalitarian Thug (Reply #117)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:38 PM

119. My friend, you're welcome to your point of view, but

I don't share it. Life's complicated enough without saddling myself with a bunch of "what-if" scenarios.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #119)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:51 PM

122. Yeah, I don't share his negativity and I think the President knows what to do.

 

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #119)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 07:59 PM

145. And you are free to ignore what has gone before and pretend that it won't again.

 

We both know that yours is the option selected by the majority. But also know that that it exactly what the founders of this nation warned us about time and again.

Ignore your enemy's movements at your own peril.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #111)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:55 PM

127. Who appointed the members of the Cat-Food Commission?

 

Who slashed the contributions to the Social Security trust fund while continuing to borrow heavily from it to finance the bloated military-industrial complex with no intention of ever paying it back?

Who appointed Supreme Court Justice let's-weaken-and-do-away-with-the-Miranda-rule Kagan? (Yes, she was the Solicitor General representing the Administration in Berghuis v Thompkins when the Supreme Court accepted her arguments and undermined the Miranda rule. See, e.g., Justice Sotomayor's dissent in Berghuis v Thompkins, http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/09pdf/08-1470.pdf)

Who extended the tax-cuts for the rich? How long will we have to wait before the next extension is agreed to?

Who signed three let's-send-even-more-jobs-to-foreign-countries "free-trade" agreements? How long will we have to wait before the next one, the "NAFTA of the Pacific," is signed?

Maybe we just need to give him more time?



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Response to AnotherMcIntosh (Reply #127)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 05:03 PM

132. I know of no Commission with that particular name.

If it's the one I'm thinking of, they didn't agree on a final report and none was issued. If it's some other Commission, I wish you'd tell me what its actual name was.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #132)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 05:26 PM

139. You are unfamiliar with the "Cat-Food Commission"? Really?

 

It's been in the news. It's also been repeatedly covered on this site.

It's even been covered by Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Commission_on_Fiscal_Responsibility_and_Reform

You are right, of course, that the Commission didn't agree on a final report and none was issued. With respect to "Cat-Food Commission" name, this was also explained by Wikipedia at a time when the Cat-Food Commission was still a viable one.
"The commission has been criticized as deliberating in secret and as being "stacked with people who want to target entitlement spending rather than any balanced proposal." Because it could lead to cuts in benefits for Social Security and Medicare, many Democrats are calling this a 'cat food' commission, meaning that it will eliminate key portions of the social safety net, forcing the poor and elderly into such poverty that they will only be able to afford to eat cat food."


But, of course, somehow I think that you are already well informed and well aware of that.

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Response to AnotherMcIntosh (Reply #139)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 08:07 PM

146. Ya think?

 

This one is "a treasure".

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #111)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 11:16 AM

164. Actually we have lots of indication that he will

we were paying attention during his first term.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #2)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:47 PM

31. The great majority of which is the same as the new one. n/t

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Response to PoliticAverse (Reply #31)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:04 PM

49. As is usually the case. Only a third of the Senate is up every two years,

and House incumbents have a strong advantage. That said, the make up of both changed somewhat in the 2012 election. Notable, we have a larger majority in the Senate, with some quite notable replacements and some ugly faces are gone from the House. In my state, we tossed Chip Cravaak, replacing him with a Democrat.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:02 PM

3. I thought we blew it last time

If we blow it again by playing the 'compromise game' then we also need to rethink what we are as a party.

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #3)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:45 PM

86. I second that motion.

We gave it all away in 2006 when we had it all. Why? For 6 more years of Republican BS. It's time to do something this time around or form a new Progressive Liberal party.

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #3)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 01:34 AM

204. And not enough of us were out there still campaigning for our core values. Yes you would think our

elected representatives would do that for us. But I do think we need to participate more. To demand that they take action.

And stand up boldly against GOP gamesmanship and just insist-- We do not consider children in poverty as bargaining chips. We have already compromised on 800 billion in cuts to social programs. The health and safety of the poor and middle class are not little bargaining chips. They have already borne their burden. They sacrificed a lot last time to show our Democratic spirit but enough is enough.

Need to ask my legislators to speak up about urgent human needs not being bargaining chips. Far better to get the extra where it is sloshing around in the privatized military budget for example.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:04 PM

5. Nothing has happened yet.

All I see are posts about how Republicans, who got their asses kicked, will win and how Democrats are going to screw up.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #5)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:07 PM

7. I think people are pissed off at the language and the actions of many Democrats...

Yes, the Repubs got their asses kicked. Why are we so quick to soothe their hurt feelings? Why are we acting as if the "fiscal cliff" is some type of ominous doom awaiting us? Why aren't we acting like the winners? Why are we trying so hard for a compromise whereby we get screwed? Where is the bright side to this picture?

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Response to kentuck (Reply #7)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:26 PM

19. "Why are we so quick to soothe their hurt feelings?"

Because we still need the House of Representatives to cooperate with us.

"Why are we acting as if the "fiscal cliff" is some type of ominous doom awaiting us?"
It kinda is, depending on the economist you listen to.

"Why aren't we acting like the winners?"
We won the Presidency but not the House of Representatives.

"Why are we trying so hard for a compromise whereby we get screwed?"
No compromises have been made. Not many have even been discussed yet.

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Response to randome (Reply #19)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:15 PM

62. +++1,000 recs

People hate it when you talk sense instead of loyal rhetoric.

We now have a president who doesn't fear re-election. He'll absolutely appoint a couple supreme justices, and the course of the country is unchanged from his 1st four years. Compromise is not capitulation.

Clinton didn't build the greatest two term administration in my lifetime by shunning republicans.

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Reply #62)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:24 PM

69. You cant compromise with terrorists. Republicans are terrorists. nm

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Reply #62)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:52 PM

124. No, people hate it when you pretend to talk sense, but it actually isn't.

And when a lot of what is represented as compromise is actually apologism.

"Depending on which economist you talk."

Not the ones who have been proven right over and over ahain.

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Reply #62)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 06:37 AM

169. and Clinton even worked with Newt

who is one of the most awful repugs that there is. It can be done.

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Response to randome (Reply #19)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:42 PM

81. no, it's not, & there is no deal that needs to be made before Jan.

 

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Response to randome (Reply #19)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:43 PM

84. +1 nt

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Response to kentuck (Reply #7)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:44 PM

28. Obama said "elections have consequences and I won" to a bunch of republicans

early in his first term.... They had already decided to prove him wrong and that just tripled their determination to stymie his agenda in any way they could. I rather imagine he is way too intelligent to make that mistake again.

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Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #28)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:46 PM

30. We would all like to think so...

But he has yet to prove it.

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Response to kentuck (Reply #30)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:57 PM

36. I wish ya'll would just listen to yourselves....

I fully expect half of DUers to begin wearing hats decorated with coffee beans or something as equally silly.

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Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #36)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:58 PM

39. What did anyone expect from this election?

Honestly?

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Response to kentuck (Reply #39)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:05 PM

51. Honestly.

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Response to Sekhmets Daughter (Reply #36)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:47 PM

87. Or tin foil! n/t

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #87)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:58 PM

95. I was trying to be polite

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Response to kentuck (Reply #30)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:07 PM

52. It's been SEVEN FREAKING DAYS and Congress isn't even in session yet! WHAT do you want???

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Response to George II (Reply #52)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:16 PM

63. Exactly!

And it is the Democrats that seem to be breaking their backs to get a compromise with those that want it their way or no way. Wouldn't it be nice if they just shut the fuck up and let the Republicans do the compromising? They don't have to do anything until the first of the year. Go home. Stop trying to deal with the extortionists. Let the Bush tax cuts expire and you will see the Republicans gather rather quickly for some type of deal. Stop the frigging nonsense about the "fiscal cliff". There is no "cliff". It is a slow grade downward if they do nothing. Stop following the directions of the Republicans and start acting like Democrats with a backbone that will not be cowered by these criminals in the other Party. Is that asking too much?

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Response to kentuck (Reply #63)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:51 PM

90. Name names or STFU

I love you kentuck, but Obama told the Republicans that US voter want taxes raised on the wealthy. Then Harry Reid said to the Repubs no fucking w the SaFety net.

Who are Dems you are talking about.

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Response to emulatorloo (Reply #90)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:55 PM

93. Did you see Schumer on C-SPAN?

Did you see the President already today say that he was ready to extend the payroll taxes? Obviously not?? Why don't they just shut the fuck up! Nobody wants them out negotiating with the Repubs right now. They have all the cards. They don't have to give away anything. You act as if Obama has never betrayed us in any way. He has before and there are no guarantees he will not do it again. Somebody needs to twist his balls and remind him he is a Democrat. Just my humble opinion...

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Response to kentuck (Reply #93)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:06 PM

99. I'm getting more noise from you than signal

What did Schumer say?

What it boils down too is I am more optimistic than you. The Republicans have nothing. This is not 2010, and Obama Reid et al know that. Much different political reality now.

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Response to emulatorloo (Reply #99)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:12 PM

102. Here is a post from a couple of hours ago...

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Response to kentuck (Reply #102)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:13 PM

104. Thanks! I edited my post above to clarify.

In spite of Schumer, I still feel that optimism.

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Response to emulatorloo (Reply #99)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:21 PM

110. I agree with you that the Repubs have nothing...

That is why talk about grand bargains and unsolicited compromise are so discouraging. I do not mean to be negative but I think this is a situation we all need to be aware of, instead of blaming Democrats for not going to the polls the next time around. We hope this is a different political reality? But, is it really? What makes you think that? Is it just your deep-seated optimism?

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Response to kentuck (Reply #63)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 06:03 PM

141. I don't really know what you're talking about, they're just talking generalities, did you hear...

....of anything specific? What are they supposed to do, get up and talk like you OP?

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Response to kentuck (Reply #63)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 10:22 PM

148. Did you see Obama's comments today, or his press secretary's comments?

They refuted EVERYTHING you whine about. Best to google it, watch (or read) what transpired, and then let us know how you feel about it.

Quite frankly, you're WAY ahead of yourself - see what's going on before you begin to criticize it!!!

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Response to kentuck (Reply #30)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 05:14 PM

135. But he has yet to prove it.

Let's see... it's the 13th.... he was re-elected on the 7th.... 13 - 7 = 6.

6 days.

And the new administration doesn't start until Jan. which is 11/2 months away! Like in the future.

Exactly when is he supposed to prove it and how.... in 6 days (where he HAS drawn a line in the sand re taxes) and ... well the future's not here yet.

Do explain what you are talking about. Because you sound like one of those freaked out loser Repugs. "OOOOO! What are we gonna do??? We're doomed!"


Jesus!

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Response to kentuck (Reply #7)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:51 PM

33. Can you provide examples?

Last edited Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:52 PM - Edit history (1)

Why are we so quick to soothe their hurt feelings?

Can you show us what you mean?


Why are we acting as if the "fiscal cliff" is some type of ominous doom awaiting us?

Are we?


Why aren't we acting like the winners?

Depends... In your opinion, how do winners act that is different than the way Dems are acting?


Why are we trying so hard for a compromise whereby we get screwed?

Wow, you'll have to be more specific...


Where is the bright side to this picture?

IMO, the bright side is that you're probably seeing things too darkly, and the view is not as bad as you think.

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Response to kentuck (Reply #7)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:02 PM

44. Just HOW are we "so quick to soothe their hurt feeling"???

Who is worried about the ominous doom of a "fiscal cliff"? Haven't you been watching the news?

There have been NO Democrats "trying hard for a compromise", all I've seen is that they've said compromise, and hinted "sensible compromise", is not out of the question.

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Response to kentuck (Reply #7)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 10:25 PM

149. I think YOU are pissed off, but not many other "people" are pissed off...you're projecting

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Response to ProSense (Reply #5)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:15 PM

107. If we wait until it's done, it will be too late. n/t

 

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:06 PM

6. And what have they done since last Tuesday?

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Reply #6)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:16 PM

14. Exactly.

I'm so confused.

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Reply #6)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:20 PM

15. They haven't ...

lit their hair on fire?

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Reply #6)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:46 PM

29. Nothing....and that is worrisome....

I don't like the way that there is no Democratic voice re: immigration reform. The republicans are taking over the narrative and the Dems are silent. Morons, all of them.

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Reply #6)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:39 PM

78. I wonder how these people who want to tread lightly will feel when Republicans,...

.....start their impeachment hearings just to eat the calendar for the next two years.

Talk to a Republican now and they throw that "Clinton was impeached" at you as a source of PRIDE as if they actually kicked him out of office. Doesn't MATTER that the public didn't support them for it. They did it, they call it a "victory" and they're STILL tone deaf that the public doesn't care and thought it was petty.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:08 PM

8. I'll withhold rage until there's a reason for it... nt

 

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Response to Comrade_McKenzie (Reply #8)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:10 PM

10. I would prefer to let them know how I feel right now...

Rather than waiting for them to do something stupid and uncalled for. I do not have the blind faith of a partisan when such important issues are at stake. They had better get their shit in gear. That is where my rage is right now....not later.

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Response to kentuck (Reply #10)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:22 PM

17. Then let them know. They aren't reading DU, I'm sure.

If you need help with email addresses or something, just ask.

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Response to kentuck (Reply #10)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 11:16 AM

155. Have you written to your congressman or senator? Or just posting on DU will get it done?

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:09 PM

9. what mandate?

 

he had more of a mandate in 2008 than he does today.

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Response to underoath (Reply #9)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:13 PM

11. 332 - 206

with over 3 million more in the popular vote = mandate.

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Response to ohheckyeah (Reply #11)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 06:45 PM

162. You're not understanding me though.

 

I'm saying President Obama had more of a mandate in. 2008 than he does today. Both his electoral college and popular vote numbers are down. Am I correct, or no?

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Response to underoath (Reply #162)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 03:34 AM

163. Why would it matter?

He still has a mandate.

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Response to ohheckyeah (Reply #163)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 10:53 AM

165. but less of one than he had in 2008!!!

 

Both President Obama popular vote and electoral college numbers are lower than 2008! less of a mandate now than before.



you cannot deny that.

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Response to underoath (Reply #165)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 03:37 PM

167. He has every bit as much of a mandate as GWB

did. He has a mandate - why are you arguing about the degree of the mandate?

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Response to ohheckyeah (Reply #167)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 06:19 AM

168. Because lower numbers means less of a mandate.

 

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Response to underoath (Reply #168)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 02:35 PM

170. Who cares besides you and

right wingers looking to nit pick?

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Response to ohheckyeah (Reply #170)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 10:31 AM

174. I care because people are talking as if Obama won by a larger margin this time when he did not!!!

 

That is what I am trying to say, do you not get it?????

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Response to underoath (Reply #174)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 06:00 PM

190. I get it and think it's silly

and I wonder why it's so important to you. By-the-way, his margin keeps going up as more of the votes are counted.

Your histrionics are rather amusing though.

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Response to ohheckyeah (Reply #190)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 11:27 PM

195. Your concern is noted

 

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Response to underoath (Reply #168)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 05:21 PM

172. That's the 5th time you've posted that

Obama and America win! Romney loses. Too bad for republicans.

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Response to Kingofalldems (Reply #172)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 10:31 AM

173. because people dont realize that there is less of a mandate now than there was before.

 

yes Obama and America won. but it is less of a mandate than before. That's what im trying to get across!!!!! but no one is listening!




OBAMA WON!!!! WITH LESS NUMBERS THAN IN 2008!!!! can anyone tell me I an wrong on the numbers???????

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Response to underoath (Reply #173)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 10:55 AM

176. So what do you want us to do?

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Response to Kingofalldems (Reply #176)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 02:36 PM

182. stop talking about how there is a mandate.

 

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Response to underoath (Reply #182)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 06:01 PM

191. No...

there IS a mandate. He won by as big of a margin that Bush did when he declared he had a mandate. Deal with it.

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Response to ohheckyeah (Reply #191)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 11:29 PM

196. Who the hell cares about bush?

 

Because bush said it you need to make sure Obama has the same thing bush thought he had?

Wow

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Response to underoath (Reply #173)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 06:44 PM

194. In 2004 GWB announced he had a mandate

when he won 50.7% of the vote. Obama currently has 50.75% of the vote.

Nobody but you seems to care that he got less votes in 2012 than he got in 2008. Turnout was lower in 2012 for a number of reasons but the fact remains Obama has a mandate.

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Response to ohheckyeah (Reply #194)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 11:31 PM

197. Who cares about what bush thought he had.

 

If Obama had more of a mandate than in 2008 than I would think more people would come out to vote. That certainly didn't happen.

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Response to ohheckyeah (Reply #194)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 07:12 PM

211. GWB was wrong.

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Response to Telly Savalas (Reply #211)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 11:15 PM

213. But Obama isn't.

He has a mandate.

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Response to underoath (Reply #165)

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 05:18 PM

171. How many times can you post the same thing?

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Response to underoath (Reply #162)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 01:08 AM

203. A dirty little secret of Nov 6th 2012 -

Twelve million people who enthusiastically made their way to the polls in 2008 didn't bother to go there in 2012.

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Response to truedelphi (Reply #203)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 01:24 PM

207. exactly. So like I said, President Obama had more of a mandate in 2008 than he does today.

 

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Response to underoath (Reply #9)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 03:44 AM

154. OBAMA HAS A MANDATE - way more than W's appointment by the court or

his tainted 2004, <300 ECV squeaker.

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Response to Care Acutely (Reply #154)

Fri Nov 16, 2012, 10:55 AM

166. Less of a mandate now than he had in 2008.

 

both his electoral college numbers and popular vote numbers are lower than in 2008, that's just undeniable.

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Response to underoath (Reply #166)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 06:03 PM

192. That doesn't mean he has no mandate.

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Response to ohheckyeah (Reply #192)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 11:32 PM

198. How does it mean he has a mandate?

 

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Response to underoath (Reply #198)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 12:18 AM

199. Because....

how's that?

You seem to have a real problem with the President having a mandate. Why is that? Just spit it out and tell us what the real problem is. You'll feel better for it.

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Response to ohheckyeah (Reply #199)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 01:23 PM

206. What mandate? Because bush said he had one so now we must make sure everyone knows

 

President Obama has one? He had one in 2008. today, no.

we can both agree that both his electoral numbers and popular numbers are down from what they were in 2008 right? you cant dispute that.

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Response to underoath (Reply #206)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 07:08 PM

210. I didn't dispute that.

He still has a mandate. He won with 51% of the vote - that's a mandate.

So what's your problem with Obama's mandate? You never did answer.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:13 PM

12. I agree. O shows an inclination to throw it all away on Compromises and Syria-Iran.

I hope we're wrong about that. But, I suspect, just maybe, we've been had.

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Response to leveymg (Reply #12)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:14 PM

13. This is so discouraging.

There is no excuse for other Democrats to go along.

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Response to kentuck (Reply #13)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:23 PM

18. We all projected our own hopes for change onto him. This has happened twice, already.

But, we should start listening to what the man actually says. He told us - the agenda is to reduce the federal deficit and to regime change Syria and push Iran over the edge.

He just isn't as grotesque and clumsy about it as the other fellow.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:27 PM

20. The lame duck session of all three branches of government is going to be hard to watch until January

Your concerns are valid. However, there are going to be some new kick ass Democrats coming into Congress in both Houses in January. I think they will give both the President and the Tea Party something to think about before they try to give away the store again.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #20)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:31 PM

21. The President said this morning...

That we need to extend the Payroll taxcuts as if they are going to borrow that money and put it back into Social Security. It ain't gonna happen. That is the first concession.

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Response to kentuck (Reply #21)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:37 PM

24. Like I said it's going to be hard to watch until January

and they will do some harm, hopefully, none of it irreparable . My hope is that during the new session, Congress will put things back on track. I don't think Boehner will have the stranglehold on the House Republicans that he has had in the past. Let's face it, the President can't really do much without Congress doing it first. He can veto legislation and if we get some good tax legislation through Congress and he vetoes it then all I can do is throw my hands up in disgust.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #24)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:32 PM

115. Eric(Anal Leakage) Cantor

will try to unseat Boner. Cantor is rabid and extreme and will start impeachment proceedings.

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Response to kentuck (Reply #21)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:52 PM

92. the payroll tax cuts shouldn't be extended.

 

they shouldn't have been done in the first place.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:32 PM

22. The Republicans are walking on thin ice

They are the ones who are forced to compromise with Democrats.

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Response to gravity (Reply #22)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:35 PM

23. Yes.

But why should we try to emulate them? You would think they would be the ones searching for compromise?

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Response to kentuck (Reply #23)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:38 PM

25. Because Americans want compromise

If the Democrats look willing to compromise while the Republicans do not, then the public will blame the Republicans for a failure.

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Response to gravity (Reply #25)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:52 PM

34. Americans do not want compromise. Americans want an improved economy.

Compromising with the Republicans needs to happen at the last minute, in order to get things done. Compromising right out of the gate, which is what some DUers are advocating, will ensure that the economy continues to falter.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #34)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:20 PM

66. Americans want a balanced approach to fixing the economy

especially when it comes to fixing the budget deficit.

If the Democrats act like they wont compromise, then it will hurt them politically. If they act like they are compromising with Republicans, they will earn political capital to advance their agenda in the future.

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Response to gravity (Reply #66)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:25 PM

70. You are mistaken. Americans are not interested in the process. They are interested in outcomes.

Democrats make this mistake a lot. They think that the electorate is sitting around scoring the Democrats on how well they get along with others. Wrong. Most Americans aren't paying the slightest bit of attention to the details of what is happening in D.C. They want to see results.

The Republicans have heaved so far to the right, any form of compromise at this point interferes with the very urgent need for us to move forward as a country into more enlightened policies. Compromise is essential to the political process but it comes at the end, in the back rooms, when the deals are being hammered out. NOT at the beginning. NOT as an effort to "share toys" and build goodwill. That doesn't work.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #70)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:29 PM

72. Well said, yardwork.

I think it is the right thing to do to get out ahead of this story and let the Democratic leaders know exactly what we think. If it sounds a little harsh for them, then, too bad. As you say, we don't really care about the game-playing for the public, we are interested in the "outcomes".

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Response to yardwork (Reply #70)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 11:30 AM

157. Then stop attacking Obama on the process

and wait for an outcome before criticizing him.

Obama is going to give the appearance of being open to compromise because it helps him politically. He knows he has the upper hand in negotiations so he is really in control of the fiscal cliff.

Obama looked weak during the debt ceiling negotiations, but he outwitted the Republicans by engineering a fiscal cliff that favors the Democrats. He knows what he is doing.

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Response to gravity (Reply #157)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 01:13 PM

158. What? Where have I attacked Obama? Nice accusation there.

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Response to gravity (Reply #157)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 08:14 PM

212. No, YOU stop telling people to shut up about important policies

until after they are enacted. Shame on you for even suggesting that people should keep quiet in what is supposed to be a representative government.

It's time for this destructive meme about shutting up...to stop
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021488072

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Response to gravity (Reply #66)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:27 PM

71. Yes "balanced approach", like cutting defense spending and taxing the wealthy. NOT REDUCE SS AND

MEDICARE.

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Response to gravity (Reply #25)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 05:26 PM

140. You mean like in 2010?

please share whatever you're smoking. Americans hate compromise. They like leadership.

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Response to kentuck (Reply #23)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:40 PM

26. I agree with you.

Obama won and he needs to act like it.

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Response to gravity (Reply #22)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:14 PM

60. +1

It is so unbalanced to see only one side of a thing.

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Response to gravity (Reply #22)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:42 PM

82. Don't say that. We're supposed to ignore the Republicans and just shit on Democrats.

You didn't get the memo?

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:51 PM

32. You're right, Kentuck.

This is what happened in 2010. People didn't vote for Republicans because they wanted the country to go right-wing. They voted for Republicans or stayed home because they were angry with the Democrats for not doing enough. The Tea Party took advantage of the Democrats' mistake.

The ball is in our court. The voters expect Democrats to come through.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:56 PM

35. We've already won for the next four years

and we need a candidate who can really turn out the vote for 2016.

Obama's judicial appointments are ample reason by themselves to support him. If we can hold onto the Senate in 2014 and elect a Democratic candidate for President in 2016 demographics will do the rest and end the alliance between big business and the racists forever. Once those two factions are at each others' throats the awful rightward tilt of this country will be ready to be knocked over and we can get back to sanity.

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Response to The Second Stone (Reply #35)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:17 PM

109. No, we've won for the next 12 - 16 months at best. Failing to press that advantage to good purpose

 

will yield a repeat of 2010.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:57 PM

37. I don't know what you are talking about.

HOW are they acting 'as if they won nothing?'

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:57 PM

38. Just one week since election day

and the circular firing squad has already assembled.

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Response to mac56 (Reply #38)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 03:29 AM

153. I was thinking the exact same thing lol

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Response to mac56 (Reply #38)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 02:50 PM

184. It is the eternal need of some for perfect purity. Like voting for Nader in Florida 2000.

And just like republicans and teabaggers, those people become enraged when anyone remotely suggest that they were wrong and their wrong thinking caused enormous damage.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:59 PM

40. why

are we being so negative when he hasn't even done anything yet? This is what frustrates me about this site when I see posts like this. We're you one of the ones who stayed home in 2010? Are you going to stay home in 2014 when the midterms come around? Enough with the negative post.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:59 PM

41. Post-election analysis

There has been a measured dose of conciliation in the President's words, and from some Congressional leaders, but it has been far short of inviting the Republicans to sit around the Oval Office fireplace for a Kumbaya moment.
As has been noted, the majority of voters are looking for an honest attempt at the two parties finding, or at least sincerely seeking, some common ground. One week after election day I don't think the President or Congressional Democrats have been cowering in a corner pleading with the bullies not to hit them.
As a lifelong liberal activist, I think we should at least give the lameduck session a little while to take shape and see what can be accomplished on the Bush tax cuts and whatever else crops up.

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Response to NHDEMFORLIFE (Reply #41)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:03 PM

46. Good advice but....

I think someone needs to let them know that we are not up to the same game that was played before. Not with the debt limit. Not with the extortion. Not with cutting payroll taxes. Not with cutting Medicare. Not with substituting closing loopholes for tax rate increases. Not with extending the Bush tax cuts. Not with licking the asses of John Boehner and the Republicans. We have seen that episode already.

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Response to kentuck (Reply #46)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:29 PM

73. I agree

But politically I'd rather see Boehner and McConnell throw the first punch before going for the knockout. If they throw the first punch and the President responds with nothing but a flinch, I'd say we have a problem, but not before.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:00 PM

42. Got anything specific about their actions, words, proposed compromise, etc?

It's only 7 days after the election and no one has sat down with the other side to discuss anything specific.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:01 PM

43. NOBODY

is paying attention to politics right now, beyond this Petraeus debacle.

Even God took a day off.

It's been a week. Breathe it out.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Reply #43)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:09 PM

56. Good advice.

And you're right, the wave of revelations over the Petraeus debacle has captivated everyone's attention. I, for one am going to go meditate for a spell. I feel confident that the news of note is the raincoat over a thwarted ugly-demon-nightmare-from-hell that most of the GP might not be able to fathom so I can take a deep breath and wait to see if I was correct on any of it. Though I'm sure there are several boots to fall yet and a few more charlatans to be skewered by their own swords.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Reply #43)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:31 PM

76. Seriously.

Wow. Can we give him two weeks at the very least? Boner has not even started talking to the President. He just gave a really stupid speech.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Reply #43)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 06:01 AM

205. Those of us who don't want a mass murder compromise enacted can't afford that

Given that people now DIE waiting to get on Medicare, raising Medicare eligibility age = mass murder.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:03 PM

45. the Republicans never hesitate to claim a mandate - no matter what and move aggressively. Democrats

always begin by giving away the farm before the negotiations even start. It's very disheartening.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:03 PM

47. Hear hear!! Exactly my sentiments.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:04 PM

48. It'd be great if the Dems could rule by fiat.

But in a two party system compromise is essential. GW Bush didn't put in place the ill fated sweeping changes he instituted with only republican support, and Obama isn't going to do it either unless he lives up to the right's view that he's a socialist dictator.

The republican party is slow to coming to terms of compromise, but they're the ones who face political extinction if they can't help govern. We've seen evidence of that in the last two election cycles. The all too stubborn Tea Party has been on the wane, in part because of their willingness to cash a paycheck and do nothing for it.

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Reply #48)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 02:55 PM

186. The OP is proposing that we get ready to sit on our asses in 2014 and give republicans

more power. Hmmmm, where did I see that before?

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:04 PM

50. I have been working a lot.

I must have missed it...what's behind this current prophecy of utter ruin for the Dems?

I'm out of the loop so any enlightenment would be welcome.

Julie

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Response to JNelson6563 (Reply #50)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 02:56 PM

187. Nothing has happened. Other than the pre-emptive frothing that happens on occasion on DU. nt

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:08 PM

53. Oh hell...

... we are one week out from an election and THIS is the conversation?

I'd say I need a break from this place, but really I think people like THIS need the break.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:08 PM

54. Just don't deny that this feeling is there...

It is there for a reason. Some people feel we are being set up for a betrayal and their loyalty to the Party has just about reached its limit. If they don't realize that, we all will suffer. They will not get the support the next time around if they surrender too much to Boehner and the Republicans. We can criticize those that feel this way as being out of touch and too impatient. But the Democrats have to prove they are deserving of the support they have received. We are not fucking robots.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)


Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:12 PM

58. The Democratic Party did not get the House back

Some gains, but we need more in 2014, not a return to the Tea Party house of 2010. I would prefer to think of the Republican party as being on thin ice.

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Response to treestar (Reply #58)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:29 PM

74. To get the HOR back we need to stand firm like the people want.

The American people dont want the REpublican agenda so we shouldnt compromise. If we do, we wont win the HOR back.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:13 PM

59. they need to look at 2010

that is a hard lesson that could be repeated only worse if they don't show us they have spine . . . it's time to play hardball by OUR rules not theirs anymore!

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Response to evilhime (Reply #59)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:15 PM

61. So you think 2010 a good thing?

Just who gets "punished" by kicking the Democrats out for not being tough enough, and replacing them with Republicans? Hint: it is not the Democratic office holder.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:17 PM

64. you

really think it'll be more of the same? Our POTUS does not have to worry about reelection so he should be able to call those rethug/tea party obstructionists into the oval office and kick their ass. If during the state of the union speech, someone shouts he's a liar, hopefully he'll go into the audience and punch that fucker in the mouth. Hard.......and on and on.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:18 PM

65. Stop it just Stop the noise!

This President that WE all just elected needs us to have his back in support. No backstabbing!

As he prepares to meet with Congressional leaders at the White House on Friday, aides say, Mr. Obama will not simply hunker down there for weeks of closed-door negotiations as he did in mid-2011, when partisan brinkmanship over raising the nation’s debt limitdamaged the economy and his political standing. He will travel beyond the Beltway at times to rally public support for a deficit-cutting accord that mixes tax increases on the wealthy with spending cuts.

He'll go to the public that gave him and the Democratic Senate they elected a mandate on raising taxes on the wealthy, and the people will speak, again. With the new Senate, and the popular vote win for House Democrats, that mandate extends to protecting the middle class all around, including by protecting Medicare and Medicaid. .

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/11/12/1160779/-Boehner-chastens-his-caucus-his-caucus-demands-no-compromise


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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:20 PM

67. Well it's been a week

if you don't count today since he won.

I suppose that's long enough for him to piss off the usual suspects around here.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:21 PM

68. I will not take getting ...

... left behind, ridiculed, and ignored again, lightly. The is no "later" for millions of us. I have nothing left to lose, and there are millions of us that are in this shape. This is it.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:31 PM

75. The Right Wing wants you to fear them. The only authority they have is what you give them.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:35 PM

77. I'm confused. Did I miss something in the news?

In what way are they acting as if they've won nothing?

Who has said or done what? Links?

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:40 PM

79. No, they aren't.

It hasn't even been a week and we're already back to complaining about Democrats. But I suppose it wouldn't be DU if we weren't.

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Response to NYC Liberal (Reply #79)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:42 PM

83. Yes, it's best if...

we wait until they crash thru the ice before we say anything. Otherwise, we are only wasting our breath. We need to have more faith and confidence in our "Party". If we are nothing else, we are good little soldiers...

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:41 PM

80. I have no fucking clue what or who you are talking about

Please Name names of Democrats who are acting if "they won nothing"

Because I am not seeing that.

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Response to emulatorloo (Reply #80)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:01 PM

97. The

 

Dems that dismissed the unlikely voters and thought the swing voters were the key to the election. The unlikely voters didn't just beat down the Repukes but we beat the supporters of the repukes too. As I see it, we beat Big business too. Ed Rendell hasn't got the message too. It is an insult to call us the fringe luny Left. The Dems that want to dismiss us. I also consider Paul Begala and Dee Dee Myers in this group. They need to understand Demographics too. Do not make the miscalculations, we can't do it again in 2014. I think a funny thing happened in this election. A sleeping giant suddenly realized the power they have at the voting booth. It is no longer business as usual. I also think the Unions gained a lot of power in this election also. While the GOP is having their little conferences, I think they realize this also. It is up to these queezy Democrats to realize this too. I'll give you an example that I've given before.

Mike McIntyre is a Blue Dog Democrat out of North Carolina. The only reason he hasn't been replaced is because that is the Dems only option. McIntyre maybe a Blue Dog but most of his constituents are minorities. He is in a close election because many in his constituency are also disappointed with him selling them out. If there was a better and more liberal Democrat went up against him, he would lose. The Dems that have lost seats the most are Blue Dogs. THe Dems that loss the most in 2010 are Blue Dogs.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:43 PM

85. I love this discussion

 

Thank you Kentuck

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:48 PM

88. This is the way I see it!

Obama McConnell and Boehner Meet on The Fiscal Cliff!

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Response to ProudProgressiveNow (Reply #88)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:51 PM

91. Exactly!

Now who needs to talk about compromise? The President or the Republicans?

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Response to kentuck (Reply #91)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:02 PM

98. The rebublics are the one on the edge...

let them squirm....

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:49 PM

89. If not now, when? Will we get action or the usual "compromises" and excuses?

My bet is on the latter.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:01 PM

96. Agreed

ENOUGH of this compromise talk.

Republicans took compromise last term and use it to slap Obama across the face.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:08 PM

101. Off the cliff.

That's the deal Republicans demanded in order to raise the debt ceiling. Fine. Let's go with that and lay the chips at their doorstep. Take the house in 2 years and finally get some things done.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:13 PM

103. The fiscal cliff

is the compromise.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:14 PM

106. It has always been

this way. Decades ago, Will Rogers said, "I don't belong to any organized political party -- I'm a Democrat." Nothing has changed, and yet we manage to keep the ideals of the Liberal Democratic Party moving forward.

Now that we have won yet another Presidential election, it is time for the PUMAs, the DLC-ers, the Greens, and the Independents to begin their bickering and snark while Democrats attempt to maintain some semblance of forward momentum. Liberal progress is admittedly too fast for some, much too slow for others, and "it is what it is" for most realistic Democrats.

When the Republicans realize that even with our disorganization, our ideals and goals are so much more honest and fair than theirs, they just may come to the table with some workable ideas. I'm not holding my breath...

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Response to billh58 (Reply #106)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:28 PM

113. What's a PUMA? All I get from the urban dictionary is a pre-menopausal woman?

 

Are slightly older women the enemy now? Have I got the wrong definition?

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Response to Egalitarian Thug (Reply #113)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:39 PM

120. During the Primary Elections

of 2008, a group of Hillary Clinton supporters calling themselves "Party Unity My Ass" (PUMA) continued to support Hillary even after she conceded. They subsequently cleaned up their name to "People United Means Action."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_Unity_My_Ass

Those wounds have never really healed, and have resulted in a minor splintering of the Democratic Party. Some PUMA supporters were proud of the fact that they voted for McCain in protest.

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Response to billh58 (Reply #120)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 07:11 PM

143. OIC, thank you. n/t

 

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:16 PM

108. Republicans are still delusional

My mother thought Romney would "help Obama clean up the economy". I laughed in her face and asked her if she was serious.

They are still in the twilight zone and are doing everything that they can to try to get over the fact that they fucked up so badly that they don't know what hit them.

Don't do their work for them. Trust in our President. He won the election, didn't he? We hold the Senate and gained more seats, didn't we? We gained a few in the House, too.

Settle down. Things won't be perfect, but then again, the last four years didn't go off without a hitch either (mild understatement). We are all still here, and are making inroads.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:23 PM

112. How did asking the Republicans

for permission to govern the last time around? As I recall the Democrats got their asses handed to them because the base quit when they watched the Administration grovel at the extremist Republicans' feet.
If they do it again I quit, and don't believe I'm alone on this.
The Democrats may not have won the House, but they got more total votes than the radical extremist Republicans, and that is a better reflection of the will of the American voter.
First things first: Let the Bush tax cuts expire and let the extremists on the right explain to the 98% why they have to protect the 2%. The "job creator" bullshit doesn't work any more.
The Republicans are down, and now is the time to implant a boot heel in their backs. Trying to negotiate with the criminally insane is like pissing into the wind.

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Response to The Wizard (Reply #112)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:30 PM

114. +1 I like how you're thinking. n/t

 

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Response to The Wizard (Reply #112)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 07:30 PM

144. Perfect recount of how things have proceeded

and absolutely correct as to how I will respond to further capitulation by Democrats to the failed policies of the losing side. It's time to stand and fight something other than trickle down.

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Response to The Wizard (Reply #112)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 08:21 PM

147. Oh, you're definitely not alone

Last edited Tue Nov 13, 2012, 09:33 PM - Edit history (1)

My entire DEMOCRATIC family agrees with what you say, and I will segue this discussion further for those Democrats above who feign surprise, and just don't understand what Kentuck is talking about. Last year, as a result of Obama's Grand Bargain negotiations, he was willing to sign a Bill that would have raised the eligibility age of Medicare to 67. That of course would automatically raise the retirement age as well. Fortunately for ALL of us, the deal fell through thanks to Boehner. Fucking Boehner of all people stopped it from happening. Now imagine if Obama was successful in these negotiations and he raised the retirement age. Do you think he would have been re-elected last week? I think we're all lucky Grand Bargain I fell through or we would be looking at President Romney today.

A few of you ask why we're still worried. It's because Grand Bargain II is permeating our airwaves as I type this response, and all we hear from the Obama administration, again, are the words "compromise & sacrifice." We heard Clinton praise the Simpson Bowles Commission at the Democratic Convention. We heard Biden praise the Commission. We even heard Obama praise the Commission. The very same Catfood Commission that recommended we raise the eligibility age for Medicare.

To illustrate even further just how pissed off many liberals are with Obama, consider this discussion recently between Cornell West, Tavis Smiley & Amy Goodman:

AMY GOODMAN: And yet, you have the whole discussion now about the bipartisan consensus. Republican House Speaker John Boehner told newly re-elected President Obama he wants to see Obama succeed.

TAVIS SMILEY: Yeah, I—I appreciate the sentiment. But their words, at the moment, we will see what kind of truth there is, what kind of authenticity there is behind those words, when the president, now back in Washington, sits down Republicans to deal with that word that I hate—sequestration—when we start dealing with these cuts that are on the table. We’ve said many times that budgets are moral documents. Budgets are moral documents. When they get into the weeds about these numbers and about the budget priorities, we will see how strong that sentiment comes through.

CORNEL WEST: Absolutely. Yeah, my spontaneous response is, if I believe those words, I’m the flying nun of Eskimo origin. But everything’s possible.

TAVIS SMILEY: There’s always hope.

CORNEL WEST: Everything’s possible.

CORNEL WEST: I’m a Christian. Everything’s possible.

AMY GOODMAN: The crackdown happens from the beginning. The discussion is all about how far right do you go. And groups who are concerned about issues like poverty, issues of social justice, are being told, "You’re going to be lucky—you just have to be quiet right now, because we are talking about these massive cuts."

CORNEL WEST: Yeah, don’t do it.

AMY GOODMAN: "Do not undercut the president."

TAVIS SMILEY: Well, they—that’s the same thing we heard the first term. And we see where we are now. And we—part of the reason why the race was as close as it was, getting down to the wire, is because too often in the first term, the president compromised, capitulated, caved, and oftentimes negotiate against himself with Republicans. And so, I hope that we’ve learned a lesson—that he’s learned a lesson, the White House has learned a lesson, from the first administration, that sometimes you’ve got to draw a line in the sand. And as my grandfather said, there’s some fights that ain’t worth fighting even if you win, but there are other fights you have to fight even if you lose. So I would love this notion of bipartisanship to come to the fore in Washington, but if that doesn’t happen, the president has to stand on a—on some immutable principles and try to advance the conversation.

AMY GOODMAN: Maybe it’s the bipartisan consensus that’s the problem in Washington, not the gridlock, right? I mean, the bipartisan consensus—

CORNEL WEST: That’s right.

AMY GOODMAN: —you see reflected in the presidential debates. There’s no debate over drones.

CORNEL WEST: That’s right.

AMY GOODMAN: There’s no discussion of poverty, absolutely no mention of climate change. And yet, does this represent the majority of people in this country? Hardly, I think this election shows.

CORNEL WEST: Not at all. Not at all. You got the far right, and then you’ve got the center-right—the Republican Party, Democratic Party. And without no one who’s really progressive on the left telling the truth about the suffering. But, you know, the truth is, is that, you know, if 40 percent of white babies were going to bed every night either starving or not having enough to eat, it would be a different discussion. And each baby has the same value, but we’ve got 40 percent of the babies of color who are going to bed without, and we’re told to be silent and somehow capitulate to a debate about deficit, when we know we need massive investment for jobs with a living wage, massive investment for public housing, massive investment for public education, and we’re getting privatization on each front? There’s no way we’re going to be silent. You would have to crush us to the earth and introduce us to the worms before we’re going to be silent.

(The entire discussion began with this incredible exchange)

CORNEL WEST: Well, one, I think that it’s morally obscene and spiritually profane to spend $6 billion on an election, $2 billion on a presidential election, and not have any serious discussion—poverty, trade unions being pushed against the wall dealing with stagnating and declining wages when profits are still up and the 1 percent are doing very well, no talk about drones dropping bombs on innocent people. So we end up with such a narrow, truncated political discourse, as the major problems—ecological catastrophe, climate change, global warming. So it’s very sad. I mean, I’m glad there was not a right-wing takeover, but we end up with a Republican, a Rockefeller Republican in blackface, with Barack Obama, so that our struggle with regard to poverty intensifies.

AMY GOODMAN: That’s a pretty rough assessment of President Obama.

CORNEL WEST: Oh, that’s what we have. That’s what we have. Richard Nixon is to the left of him on healthcare. Richard Nixon is to the left of him on guaranteed income. And the same policies in terms of imperial foreign policy is at work. And so, I was glad to see that Romney didn’t win. We pushed back a right-wing takeover. We’ve got a right-wing mentality: cut, cut, cut, austerity, austerity, austerity. Where is the serious talk about investment in jobs, fighting the privatizing of education, and the empowerment of trade unions? And so, our battle is just beginning. We have yet to take off the gloves. You know, we’ve been fighting intensely.

AMY GOODMAN: President Obama said to Harry Belafonte, according to Harry, "Why don’t you and Cornel West cut me some slack?" And Cornel—and Harry Belafonte responded, "What makes you think we’re not?"


http://www.democracynow.org/blog/2012/11/9/part_2_tavis_smiley_and_dr_cornel_west_on


If you don't know about these rumblings within our own party, you're clearly not paying attention.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:34 PM

116. Reid: We Agree On How To Resolve 97-98 Percent Of Fiscal Cliff

Reid: We Agree On How To Resolve 97-98 Percent Of Fiscal Cliff
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021809162

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:37 PM

118. I agree.

Rec

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:46 PM

121. Totally disagree

A majority of this country didn't elect Obama so he can dance on the grave of the Repug party. We want and expect the government to work for us and let the victories do the talking. YES we rejected the extremist conservative views, but if we want to continue to be the party in charge we have to actually do something in the next 2 and 4 years, and we cant without the House.

This election is a watershed moment in our history but we cant piss it away playing partisan politics. Obama is playing his hand perfectly right now. He got healthcare done and he will get his way with taxes as well.

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Response to horsedoc (Reply #121)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:53 PM

125. That sounds like a FOX analogy...

Nobody is asking Obama to dance on the grave of the Repub Party. We only want to be represented by our votes. We do not want to be stabbed in the back and we do not want to surrender our social needs for the military or for taxcuts for the wealthy. We just want the Democratic Party to know where we stand. We do not want to wait until it is too late. We have seen too much to believe in the Easter Bunny.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:52 PM

123. Here's the thing. A major motivator behind the independant vote was they saw Obama

as trying to forge bipartisan solutions but he was thwarted at every turn. I want a progressive agenda as much as the next guy, but this mandate talk really turns people who are not us off. I think the people want to see cooperation. I'll take 3/4s of what I want to make sure I can get 3/4s the next administration.

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Response to Ed Suspicious (Reply #123)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 03:09 PM

188. You are exactly right. I see a coming 10 year battle to get everything Progressives want.

But we won't get those things in one big chunk. We need to settle for 3/4, show that republicans were wrong, then take 4/5 the next time we have them against the wall, which will come after the 2014 mid-terms if we play our cards right. If we are disciplined, by 2024, we would have implemented all the change we need and the nation will be far better off because of us winning the long fight.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:54 PM

126. Oh please... like others have said, nothing has happened yet. Also

there will be compromises. It is going to happen.

What will "piss away the next election" is the kind of talk in this post.

Another thing... this sounds lot like 2010! Keep it up and we won't have a chance in 2014.
Vote and support Democrats!! I don't care if their blue dogs, purple dogs or a yellow dog.
We have to get a majority in the House by any means possible.

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Response to OKNancy (Reply #126)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:57 PM

129. The future is now...

Not 2014.

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Response to kentuck (Reply #129)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 03:16 PM

189. Fancy saying, but also an empty one. Moderate and Independent voters gave the President his

winning margin. You have to look no farther than Massachusetts, where the President beat Romney by 25+%, while Elizabeth Warren won by just 7%. Even Warren benefited from moderate/Independent votes. If those people conclude that we can compromise, they will fall for republican BS is 2014. If they see that we can compromise and still win, we get more of them in 2014 and will take back critical seats that we need to build stronger majorities. I just don't see moderates/independents being dis-engaged during the 2014 mid-terms, I feel they saw how costly that was in 2010.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:55 PM

128. Damn

That didn't take long, did it? It's only been a fucking WEEK. Geez ...

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Response to lillypaddle (Reply #128)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 04:59 PM

130. You're right...

It didn't take long for the Democrats to start groveling. Why don't they just STFU?

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 05:02 PM

131. Calm down already.

You have no idea how this is going to shake out; no one does yet. The sky hasn't fallen...

And 'piss away the next election', in what, two years? I think there's a chill pill somewhere around here...

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Response to babylonsister (Reply #131)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 05:04 PM

133. I will look for your posts in a couple of weeks...

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Response to kentuck (Reply #133)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 05:14 PM

134. One of my pet slogans is...

don't borrow trouble!

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Response to babylonsister (Reply #134)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 05:17 PM

136. It's a dirty job...

But somebody has to do it.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 06:15 PM

142. Kick&Recommended...

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 02:35 AM

150. "They are about to piss away the next election ...

... with their actions and their words."

So says a guy on the internet - who has already determined that the loss of the next election is a foregone conclusion based on the fact that a guy on the internet said so.

Ah, the circle of life - it's fascinating to behold its inevitable unfolding.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 03:15 AM

152. with you on this. too many true believers star-gazing with happy smiles, for comfort.

LA Times news item on the President's meeting with Liberals & Labor; and Press Secretary Jay Carney -- 'just steps away in the briefing room, as the meeting was breaking up' -- spinning the compromise meme already:

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-obama-liberal-allies-fiscal-cliff-20121113,0,6827167.story

.... In an hourlong meeting with labor and other progressive leaders on Tuesday, the president promised to stand firm on the tax principles he outlined in the campaign, according to several people who were present. ....

.... Labor leaders were adamant that the deal protect the middle-class tax cuts, said AFL-CIO chief Rich Trumka. "Do we believe the president is committed to that same thing?" he said after emerging from the West Wing. "Yes, we do." ....


.... As the Tuesday meeting was breaking up, White House Press Secretary Jay Carney was just steps away in the briefing room, talking about the realities of negotiation. The "whole point of compromise," he said, "is that nobody gets to achieve their maximalist position."

The president in the past has demonstrated a willingness, he said, to "give" in an effort to "meet your negotiating partner somewhere in the middle and reach a deal." ....


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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 11:18 AM

156. Doesn't it seem early for turds in the punch bowl?

Can't we just work together till the run-up to the midterms?

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 02:05 PM

160. I agree! ..... THX for posting that!

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 02:07 PM

161. K&R

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 10:54 AM

175. More kabuki.

Back by peasant demand.

In 2008, things were even better. Bigger mandate. Control of both houses. BFEE Banksters and Warmongers on the ropes. Yet, things have not, em, transformed.

Blame it on the liberals. What is it with them anyway? It's like they're so dumb they actually still believe in democracy.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 10:58 AM

178. huh?

*checking the calendar* It's only been one day more than 2 weeks since the election and the Democratic Party is already in trouble? What compromises are you referring to?

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 11:01 AM

179. the next election is less than two years away....

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 11:08 AM

180. Almost nothing they do for the next 6-10 months matters very much toward the next election.

The problem with a mandate is that right when there may be a clear one, politicians have the least incentive to listen to the people. If you had a mandate in the 8 months leading up to an election, all sorts of stuff would get done.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 11:34 AM

181. I have no illusions. I voted for the Supreme Court which is significant. I also am not as clear as

you appear to be in regard to what will happen.

Is there something specific you heard, or was it just ramblings from a MSM who in the last decade have not been too accurate

Of course there is something people can do, and that is contact their representatives, senators, and President and let them know how you feel.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 02:42 PM

183. There you go again. What democrats need is for us to give them unchallenged control of the

House and Senate after the 2014 mid-terms. If some DUERS get mad because legislating isn't perfect and sit on their asses in 2014, ALL of us lose. Unions, which sat out most of 2010 seem to have gotten the message after being hit up side the head repeatedly by bricks held by right-wing republican Governors and legislatures elected in 2010. I would have guessed that the Left would have learned from their work of handing Bush Florida in 2000 by voting 97,000 for Nader, I guess I was fucking wrong, some people NEVER seem to learn.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 02:53 PM

185. Link please?

I'd like to see the evidence they plan to piss away the next election.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 06:09 PM

193. Here's what I think Kentuck is saying

The first rule of negotiation is always to start by asking for more than you think you can actually get. You may end up getting only 50-75% of what you want, but it will be a net gain.

Ever since Reagan, the Dems have had the infuriating habit of STARTING by asking themselves what the Republicans will accept. BZZT! Wrong answer!

What the Republicans will accept is usually less than 50% of what the Dems want, but the Dems make that their opening offer, and the Republicans, SENSING WEAKNESS, chip away at that further. The Dems end up with 25% of what they want, and the Republicans end up with most of what they want.

Note that the Republicans never start by asking themselves what the Dems will accept.

The voters hate weakness. They were scared away by the sheer awfulness of the Republican candidates this election, but if the Dems continue to be milquetoasts in the face of Republican attacks, it will undermine the voters' confidence.

Here's what the plan should be: Start with strong, bold anti-Republican (e.g. raising the cap on Social Security, gradually lowering the age of Medicare by five years each year so that it's an option for everyone within 12 years, cutting the "defense" budget, etc.) proposals and use TV time and news conferences and local Democratic Party organizations and Congresscritters who are visiting their home districts to push those ideas relentlessly. The Dems should put their quickest witted, most entertaining speakers on the CNN and other talk shows to make the Republicans look ridiculous. If the Republicans still block the proposal, the Dems should go into full blame mode. "It's the Republicans fault that long-term unemployed 60-year-olds aren't eligible for Medicare."

Strength. Fortitude. Courage of their convictions. That's the key.

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Response to Lydia Leftcoast (Reply #193)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 12:40 AM

200. Obama, Axelrod and the rest know what they're doing.

 

Last edited Wed Nov 21, 2012, 01:54 AM - Edit history (1)

They're not at all naive to what occurred on election day which is that conservatism was soundly rejected and liberalism was embraced. They are purposely downplaying the strength of the hand they were given because it serves their third way agenda.

It's not that they're incredibly bad at poker, they're just good at theater. I think Democrats buy into this because believing the illusion is less painful.

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Response to rudycantfail (Reply #200)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 01:02 AM

201. Yup, I'm afraid that their caving in is by design rather than by ineptness

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Response to rudycantfail (Reply #200)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 01:26 PM

208. +100000000

The first step to solving a problem is acknowledging it exists.

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Response to kentuck (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 03:05 PM

209. K&R

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