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Sat Nov 10, 2012, 11:22 AM

None of panelists on Scarborough-not Joe-not David Gregory-not Chuck Todd, none dared to answer...

Frum on Morning Joe: a remarkable 15 minutes of television

by David Atkins

Former Bush speechwriter David Frum made a remarkable appearance on Morning Joe, saying things even many progressives often won't come out and say. The video is below.



He begins with this:

Mitt Romney's message is I am going to take away Medicare from everybody under 55, I'm going to cut Medicaid for everybody but about a third, and I'm going to do that to finance a giant tax cut for me and my friends, and the reason I'm doing that is because half the country contribute nothing to the national endeavor.


Then about four minutes in, something even more attention-grabbing after Scarborough bloviated about Thatcher and Reagan appealing to the common man:

Since the loss of the election, we have heard an enormous amount of discussion from Republicans on television and newspaper columns about immigration as an issue...but all of us who are allowed to participate in this conversation, we all have health insurance. And the fact that millions of Americans don't have health insurance, they don't get to be on television. And it is maybe a symptom of a broader problem, not just the Republican problem, that the economic anxieties of so many Americans are just not part of the national discussion at all. I mean, we have not yet emerged from the greatest national catastrophe, the greatest economic catastrophe since the Great Depression. And what are we talking about? The deficit and the debt. And these are important problems, but they're a lot easier to worry about if you are wealthier than you were in 2008, which most of the people on television now are again, if you are securely employed, which most of the people on television now are. But that's not true for 80% of America. And the Republican Party, the opposition party, needed to find some way to give voice to real urgent economic concerns held by middle class Americans. Latinos, yes, but Americans of all ethnicities.


None of the panelists on Scaraborough--not Joe himself, not David Gregory, not Chuck Todd, none of them--dared to answer Frum's devastating indictment of them. Not of the Republican Party, but of them. It was uncomfortable, and then blithely ignored.

******************

After five full minutes of inside baseball speculation on Republican leadership games during which Frum looked like he might pull a Howard Beale (check out the look on Frum's face at 11:09 of the video!), he finally got a chance to speak again:

I believe the Republican Party is a party of followership. The problem with the Republican leaders is that they're cowards....The real locus of the problem is the Republican activist base and the Republican donor base. They went apocalyptic over the past four years. And that was exploited by a lot of people in the conservative world. I won't soon forget the lupine smile that played over the head of a major conservative institution when he told me that our donors think the apocalypse has arrived. Republicans have been fleeced and exploited and lied to by a conservative entertainment complex....Because the followers, the donors and the activists are so mistaken about the nature of the problems the country faces the nature--I mean, it's just a simple question. I went to Tea Party rallies and I would ask this question: "have taxes gone up or down in the past four years?" They could not answer that question correctly. Now it's true that taxes will go up if the President is re-elected. That's why we're Republicans. But you have to know that taxes have not gone up in the past. And "do we spend a trillion dollars on welfare?" Is that true or false? It is false. But it is almost universally believed. That means that the leaders have no space to operate.


http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2012/11/frum-on-morning-joe-remarkable-15.html

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Reply None of panelists on Scarborough-not Joe-not David Gregory-not Chuck Todd, none dared to answer... (Original post)
kpete Nov 2012 OP
silvershadow Nov 2012 #1
enough Nov 2012 #2
99 Percent Sure Nov 2012 #22
The Magistrate Nov 2012 #3
spooky3 Nov 2012 #4
reusrename Nov 2012 #20
Honeycombe8 Nov 2012 #33
reusrename Nov 2012 #59
cui bono Nov 2012 #82
ancianita Nov 2012 #114
truth2power Nov 2012 #139
Moostache Nov 2012 #35
MNBrewer Nov 2012 #60
Volaris Nov 2012 #122
hifiguy Nov 2012 #163
Rainngirl Nov 2012 #168
MissMarple Nov 2012 #170
ProudProgressiveNow Nov 2012 #45
IL Lib Nov 2012 #75
ChisolmTrailDem Nov 2012 #169
laruemtt Nov 2012 #145
TwilightGardener Nov 2012 #5
jonthebru Nov 2012 #39
Stuart G Nov 2012 #138
GatorLarry Nov 2012 #154
newspeak Nov 2012 #162
ibegurpard Nov 2012 #6
femrap Nov 2012 #26
ProudProgressiveNow Nov 2012 #46
The Blue Flower Nov 2012 #7
rhett o rick Nov 2012 #38
kpete Nov 2012 #41
progree Nov 2012 #58
ceeRoy Nov 2012 #128
Gabi Hayes Nov 2012 #131
progree Nov 2012 #149
Gabi Hayes Nov 2012 #153
MNBrewer Nov 2012 #61
Volaris Nov 2012 #123
beac Nov 2012 #88
HangOnKids Nov 2012 #93
catbyte Nov 2012 #95
progressoid Nov 2012 #160
catbyte Nov 2012 #161
hifiguy Nov 2012 #164
Volaris Nov 2012 #125
avebury Nov 2012 #111
Ineeda Nov 2012 #133
BainsBane Nov 2012 #8
Stagecoach Nov 2012 #54
Volaris Nov 2012 #124
Doc Holliday Nov 2012 #135
Volaris Nov 2012 #142
Whisp Nov 2012 #9
ProudProgressiveNow Nov 2012 #48
AnotherMother4Peace Nov 2012 #10
butterfly77 Nov 2012 #11
bloomington-lib Nov 2012 #12
TomClash Nov 2012 #13
Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2012 #14
rateyes Nov 2012 #15
femrap Nov 2012 #28
sendero Nov 2012 #156
femrap Nov 2012 #157
valerief Nov 2012 #51
Skidmore Nov 2012 #16
FiveGoodMen Nov 2012 #21
Bigredhunk Nov 2012 #17
olegramps Nov 2012 #144
Bernardo de La Paz Nov 2012 #18
heaven05 Nov 2012 #19
AnotherMother4Peace Nov 2012 #23
PD Turk Nov 2012 #24
Enrique Nov 2012 #25
reflection Nov 2012 #27
AnotherMother4Peace Nov 2012 #30
emulatorloo Nov 2012 #31
burnsei sensei Nov 2012 #44
Uncle Joe Nov 2012 #29
speedoo Nov 2012 #73
Stuart G Nov 2012 #32
reflection Nov 2012 #34
DallasNE Nov 2012 #36
AllyCat Nov 2012 #37
LovingA2andMI Nov 2012 #40
stlsaxman Nov 2012 #42
burnsei sensei Nov 2012 #43
LovingA2andMI Nov 2012 #50
eridani Nov 2012 #117
liberal_at_heart Nov 2012 #118
Jennicut Nov 2012 #47
valerief Nov 2012 #49
harun Nov 2012 #108
ProudProgressiveNow Nov 2012 #52
Liberal1975 Nov 2012 #53
Walk away Nov 2012 #64
Liberal1975 Nov 2012 #66
MNBrewer Nov 2012 #71
Liberal1975 Nov 2012 #78
Dont call me Shirley Nov 2012 #80
Liberal1975 Nov 2012 #81
DirtyDawg Nov 2012 #55
John2 Nov 2012 #56
colsohlibgal Nov 2012 #57
Son of Gob Nov 2012 #62
Flaxbee Nov 2012 #76
Hamlette Nov 2012 #63
Dorn Nov 2012 #65
BlancheSplanchnik Nov 2012 #150
LiberalLovinLug Nov 2012 #67
certainot Nov 2012 #68
AnotherMother4Peace Nov 2012 #70
creon Nov 2012 #69
valerief Nov 2012 #151
creon Nov 2012 #152
cilla4progress Nov 2012 #72
TomCADem Nov 2012 #101
Tutonic Nov 2012 #74
cui bono Nov 2012 #83
JHB Nov 2012 #136
canichelouis Nov 2012 #77
southmost Nov 2012 #79
DeSwiss Nov 2012 #84
olegramps Nov 2012 #147
cui bono Nov 2012 #85
PatSeg Nov 2012 #96
cui bono Nov 2012 #98
PatSeg Nov 2012 #107
Slit Skirt Nov 2012 #86
deutsey Nov 2012 #87
spanone Nov 2012 #89
PatSeg Nov 2012 #90
MissMarple Nov 2012 #91
davidpdx Nov 2012 #92
ballaratocker Nov 2012 #94
Marr Nov 2012 #97
progressivebydesign Nov 2012 #99
Hekate Nov 2012 #100
AlGoreRhythms Nov 2012 #102
MissNostalgia Nov 2012 #103
FlaGranny Nov 2012 #134
shcrane71 Nov 2012 #104
AlbertCat Nov 2012 #105
harun Nov 2012 #106
YOHABLO Nov 2012 #109
SpartanDem Nov 2012 #115
BlancheSplanchnik Nov 2012 #110
whathehell Nov 2012 #112
patrice Nov 2012 #113
Amonester Nov 2012 #116
Faryn Balyncd Nov 2012 #119
Cha Nov 2012 #120
Amonester Nov 2012 #121
elleng Nov 2012 #126
krkaufman Nov 2012 #127
The Wizard Nov 2012 #129
Historic NY Nov 2012 #130
libodem Nov 2012 #140
Andy Stanton Nov 2012 #132
Jester Messiah Nov 2012 #137
spanone Nov 2012 #141
truth2power Nov 2012 #143
AllyCat Nov 2012 #146
Iggy Nov 2012 #148
benld74 Nov 2012 #155
grantcart Nov 2012 #158
longship Nov 2012 #159
jonthebru Nov 2012 #165
liberal_at_heart Nov 2012 #166
spicegal Nov 2012 #167

Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 11:25 AM

1. Of course not. nt

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 11:27 AM

2. Yes, and they will continue to blithely ignore it. That's how they

make their money and assure their place in the hierarchy. What has to happen is that more and more people blithely ignore them.

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Response to enough (Reply #2)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 12:52 PM

22. +1. eom

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 11:29 AM

3. Home Truths, Ma'am

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 11:30 AM

4. David Frum is the only conservative worth listening to. He may not always be right

but he thinks, and he is in touch with reality.

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Response to spooky3 (Reply #4)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 12:48 PM

20. He easily quadrupled the collective IQ of the group by his participation.

 

And, on this, he was correct.

What he doesn't seem to understand is the fact that the Republican party has been astroturffed since Reagan. It's the same puppetmasters in charge, with a different front man every four years.

We know the public face of the cabal:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDUQtwIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DKrC2pFaaR70&ei=RZOeUKfbJI289gSIsYGgDg&usg=AFQjCNHOKZIvfWotiIpi9VqggKQSEwHunQ

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Response to reusrename (Reply #20)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 01:12 PM

33. Yes, that was amazingly insightful. I hadn't thought of it in those ways exactly...

and no Democrat had expressed it so succinctly. But it made such sense. It was so true.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #33)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 02:55 PM

59. It has to be the best two minute expose on the subject.

 

It made me into a huge Louie Ludwig fan.

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Response to reusrename (Reply #20)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 05:49 PM

82. That's a fantastic video. Thanks for posting it. n/t

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Response to reusrename (Reply #20)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 11:21 PM

114. A helluva video. I've got to check dis Louis Ludwig guy out. Thanks for the post.

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Response to reusrename (Reply #20)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 09:30 AM

139. That's an extraordinary video. Thanks. eom

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Response to spooky3 (Reply #4)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 01:17 PM

35. Frum is the kind of Republican to fear...

He understands things on a deeper level than the leadership of his party and he has ideas - they may not be ideas that I agree with, but he is by and large a serious man and the kind of person who could wrest the mantle of leadership away from self-aggrandizing idiots like Grover Nordquist.

Frum is also the most outspoken Republican to see and understand that losing the popular vote in 5 of 6 elections (and had Bush not been granted the Presidency by his father's Supreme Court it would have been 6 for 6) and RECOGNIZE that is a pattern that bodes ill for the party's long term viability. He also is naming names and calling out the exploitation of the gullible "base".

I expect a "scandal" to envelope Mr. Frum soon...or worse.

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Response to Moostache (Reply #35)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 02:59 PM

60. I fear the crazies more than the sane ones.

At least the sane ones can be reasoned with, and perhaps come to a mutually agreeable compromise.

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Response to MNBrewer (Reply #60)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 02:36 AM

122. This, I agree with. A smart Republican (like Frum, like Steve Schmidt)

might be someone that I disagree with, but they are smart enough understand that ANY government that the United States could call legitamate, is a COLLECTIVE EFFORT, and therefore, needs COMMON SOLUTIONS to problems common to us all, and therefore, know when and HOW to cut a deal, and know that political compromise is NOT tantamount to High Treason.

Those that have been so fleeced by the "collectivism is bad" message, as Frum points out, have been so NOT because it benefits them (though they are constantly told otherwise), but specifically, because it benefits OTHERS instead; it specifically is designed to NOT benefit them. That Frum figured this out, makes him dangerous to those same people.

Don't get on any small planes, David...the people you just called out play for keeps.

The condensed message to Republican voters:
Rush, et al, have no concern for, or vested interest IN, the people who call themselves Conservatives in this country... UNLESS those same people are willing to be bled out so that Rush and Crew can stay Filthy Rich.

Let the Class War begin.

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Response to Volaris (Reply #122)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 02:49 PM

163. Schmidt, Frum and a few others seem to be

utterly tired of trying to defend the indefensible nut farm the Repig party has become. They're sick to death of it and don't even bother trying anymore.

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Response to Volaris (Reply #122)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:53 PM

168. Wow, Volaris!

Well said!!! Thanks.

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Response to Moostache (Reply #35)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:48 PM

170. He's still a neocon. That's why he endorsed Romney.

It's the Tea Party and religious wing nuts that he blames. I read his book. It's worth the $5. He will probably survive just fine, since he is just saying out loud what many in the gop already know.

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Response to spooky3 (Reply #4)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 02:01 PM

45. +1 nt

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Response to spooky3 (Reply #4)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 04:45 PM

75. Frum and Susan Del Percio are the only republicans I can stand to listen to.

Frum is thoughtful, while Del Percio is actually pleasant, but not as thoughtful. They would have a future as a party if they were the norm.

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Response to IL Lib (Reply #75)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 03:21 PM

169. Agreed. I like Susan. And I'm warming up to Frum. eom

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Response to spooky3 (Reply #4)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 09:58 AM

145. wow! proud he's a fellow Lymie :=) n/t

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 11:31 AM

5. They're still surprised that the majority of Americans voted in

their own economic interests, in the interest of their own well-being. This surprises the GOP and the talking heads. I don't know why.

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #5)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 01:47 PM

39. Because they live a life of illusion.

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Response to jonthebru (Reply #39)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 08:56 AM

138. very well said..."live a life of illusion" nt

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #5)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 12:42 PM

154. Same Old GOP Double-Standard

When Republicans vote purely in their financial interests, say for huge tax cuts, it's juts "smart politics."

But when others do it, they're the 47% who are nothing but lazy, worthless "takers."

I don't think for a second the majority of Democrat voters supported the President so they could "get more" from the government, but those GOP double-standards just continue to amaze me.

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Response to GatorLarry (Reply #154)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 10:54 AM

162. yes, he called them out, those still living in that bubble

while most of main street are attempting to find a decent job, instead of working two or three shitty jobs to make ends meet.

those who have been laid off from jobs they've worked twenty, thirty years for, and now those workers are in their fifties, sixties-too early to retire, but what jobs are they left getting? who wants to hire someone that age? usually they are told "you have too much experience", "oh, you were management, how do you feel working for someone else?" but, like my hubby, who's now working with a contracting company, making low wages and has no holidays off, no weekends off-just working where they send him; most finding a shitty job they're lucky.

repugs seem to only think of WS, their friends' portfolios, or how well some rich boss is doing; not how main street is being screwed by that rich boss or just trying to stay alive. in the media, in washington, on wall street; they live in that bubble and the rest of us our just moochers looking for a hand out to them. they take our tax money, but it seems only those living in the bubble deserve to get a return on our money.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 11:35 AM

6. pleased to see some conservatives bucking the lemming parade

more Republicans like Frum need to take back their party.
Then perhaps we can actually hammer out policy from two different viewpoints that takes into account the best interests of ALL Americans.

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Response to ibegurpard (Reply #6)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 01:00 PM

26. I don't want that....

 

I want the Repugnant Party to split into two. Fundies vs. Tea Party. Strict Bible Thumpers vs. Greed. Of course there is some cross-over.

And don't forget, if you add up all the voted for the 435 Congressional seats....the Dems won by 1/2 million. Gerrymandering has kept repugs in Congress.

Let the repugnants fight each other to death.

Everyone at DU should be writing their Republican Senators and Congresspeople and VEHEMENTLY DEMAND THAT THEY TAX THE RICH!!!! AND TO WORK WITH THE PRESIDENT. SEND SNAIL MAIL TO THEIR HOME STATE OFFICES....NOT DC, since it takes too long for it to get their. Send them emails to their DC offices and phone them in DC as well.

WE HAVE TO SCREAM THIS AT THE REPUGNANTS. If we don't address this frail economic situation, it is going to get much worse. Do those 3 things every other day. Or one of them each day. That is not much to ask, is it?

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Response to ibegurpard (Reply #6)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 02:02 PM

46. +1 nt

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 11:42 AM

7. Scarborogh reiterated: "Conservatives have been lied to."

By whom, Joe?

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Response to The Blue Flower (Reply #7)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 01:41 PM

38. The Oligarchs have pulled the wool over the eyes of the conservatives.

Convincing them that they needed the whack-a-doodles in the party.

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Response to The Blue Flower (Reply #7)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 01:56 PM

41. perfect ?

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Response to The Blue Flower (Reply #7)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 02:43 PM

58. Found on the net (I use it quite a bit in the message board wars) - "Hey tea party fanatics, google

Hey, TEA PARTY fanatics, google "Koch Brothers" if ya wanna see who's really behind your so-called "grass roots" movement.....it's really an "astro turf" job.....do you REALLY think rich corporations and rich people in general actually care about you, do you think they want to hang out with you? You guys are being used, but you're too dopey to even realize it.....the rich are laughing at you; while you champion their lower taxes/no taxes, they're laughing all the way to the bank....When was the last time YOU were able to have a good laugh????

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Response to progree (Reply #58)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 03:07 AM

128. Dopey

 

and lets not forget bigoted....prejudice and bigotry will blind you to reality!

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Response to ceeRoy (Reply #128)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 05:36 AM

131. buh bye

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Response to Gabi Hayes (Reply #131)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 11:22 AM

149. ?? "buh bye" ?? - I think he was agreeing with my characterization of tea party fanatics, not

criticizing it.

Progree>> Hey, TEA PARTY fanatics, google "Koch Brothers" if ya wanna see who's really behind your so-called "grass roots" movement.....it's really an "astro turf" job.....do you REALLY think rich corporations and rich people in general actually care about you, do you think they want to hang out with you? You guys are being used, but you're too dopey to even realize it.....the rich are laughing at you; while you champion their lower taxes/no taxes, they're laughing all the way to the bank....When was the last time YOU were able to have a good laugh????

ceeRoy>> Dopey and lets not forget bigoted....prejudice and bigotry will blind you to reality! <<

At first I thought he was calling my "Hey Tea Party Fanatics... " post all of the above, but on careful re-reading, it seems to me much more likely that he was focusing on the word "dopey" in tea party fanatics -- that the dopey, bigoted, prejudice, and bigotry applies to the tea party fanatics -- something I think we all agree on.

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Response to progree (Reply #149)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 12:37 PM

153. yeah....now I look dopey forever. not unusual, that

I'm trying to think of an excuse..... maybe I was on.....dope?

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Response to The Blue Flower (Reply #7)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 03:00 PM

61. We told them, for years, that they're being lied to

but they stuck their fingers in their ears and said "yayayayaya, I can't hear you."

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Response to MNBrewer (Reply #61)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 02:39 AM

123. That's becasue Rush and Crew told them to. THAT'S Frum's point.

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Response to The Blue Flower (Reply #7)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 06:35 PM

88. Hilarious to watch Dead Intern sit there and pretend he wasn't

one of the chief lying, fleecing exploiters.

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Response to beac (Reply #88)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 07:40 PM

93. The Asshole Is Dumb As A Bag Of Cat Shit

 

Of course he refuse to address Frum and the concerns raised, he is a big part of the lying tools. What a fucking weasel. Love how he tries to look "intelligent" wearing those glasses. Fucker and murdering scum.

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Response to HangOnKids (Reply #93)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 07:51 PM

95. My cats resent that They know their shit is smarter

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Response to catbyte (Reply #95)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 08:38 AM

160. ...heh heh heh ...

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Response to progressoid (Reply #160)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 09:00 AM

161. ROFLMAO

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Response to progressoid (Reply #160)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 02:51 PM

164. !!!

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Response to beac (Reply #88)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 02:45 AM

125. It would be AWESOME to find out he is one of Frum's "Named Names",

and didn't know it yet, because he hasen't read the book yet....DAMN would he be PISSED.

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Response to The Blue Flower (Reply #7)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 10:49 PM

111. That is unbelievable that Joe Scarborough, Chuch Todd, and

David Gregory could try to act like credible journalists when they were some of the biggest liars outside of Fox News.

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Response to The Blue Flower (Reply #7)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 07:38 AM

133. The utter disconnect is mind-boggling.

Frum is talking about them to them and not a single one of them gets it. They must think his spot-on criticism is directed only toward the likes of Faux 'entertainers' and Limpballs. I sure wish he had said something like, "Look in the mirror, people."

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 11:45 AM

8. Frum's analysis is right on

The conservative entertainment media complex lies to its viewers, who are thus completely ignorant about the reality of public spending and problems facing America. I see evidence of the effects of this all over the web.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #8)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 02:12 PM

54. My cousin's husband was still like that on Election night

We had a family gathering for the election results....and my cousin's husband always watches Fox....so that's what was on for the election results. And as they started coming in he kept saying, "there's something fishy about these results".....Finally I asked him what was so fishy. He said they were too far off from what "everyone" was saying leading up to the election. I asked him who these "everyone" were....and he mentioned Fox, etc. And he kept repeating that the people on Fox couldn't be that far off. So someone else mentioned that evidently the people he was listening to were wrong. His response was "Fox hires the most intelligent people in the world....they wouldn't be this wrong". So I chimed in and said maybe the people he listened to were telling him what he wanted to hear. Oh boy, the glare. In other words, don't tell him his sources of information would lie to him. But even as Romney was giving his concession speech, he was determined that ALL the results were "fishy"....I just threw my hands in the air and walked away from him and pretty much chuckled every time he said something. lol He's one that thinks whatever Fox and right-wing radio tells him is the truth, and any other facts are wrong. lol.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #8)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 02:43 AM

124. "conservative entertainment media complex"

Can we re-write this as Conservative Media Entertainment Complex, abbreviate it C-MECX, and put it up in the Dictonary?? Like we did with BFEE?

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Response to Volaris (Reply #124)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 08:38 AM

135. How about COMIC?

The "I" would stand for "infotainment."

In true Republican fashion, it would have nothing to do with comedy.

I like it.

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Response to Doc Holliday (Reply #135)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 09:44 AM

142. I am fully in support of your improvement suggestion. How do we schedule a committee meeting,

and see if we can get it done?

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 11:53 AM

9. sing it, David

 

And these are important problems, but they're a lot easier to worry about if you are wealthier than you were in 2008, which most of the people on television now are again, if you are securely employed, which most of the people on television now are. But that's not true for 80% of America.

It's not only the fox people that are in a bubble of their own. Any pundits/commentators these days that have any ratings and recognition may as well be Romney they are so far removed from the lives of most Americans. They plug their books, they preen their cleverness, they pose.

We need a good press/media. And it's not possible the way things are set now where a handful of corps own so much of how the public thinks (added on edit) : and hires people that accommodate their message rather than the message of the 80% of America.

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Response to Whisp (Reply #9)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 02:02 PM

48. +1 nt

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 12:08 PM

10. Full of BS, comical "conservative entertainment complex" who call themselves "news"

"Fair & Balanced" no less - Noooo, please don't tell the base that they're being lied to - I put Fox & Limbaugh into the stupid & asinine humor category - except they just don't know it.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 12:13 PM

11. I couldn't believe what I was hearing..

as he got to the part about people on tv, something my friends and I have been saying for years.

I have also been astonished by many of the romney lovers who after they got their asses whipped, looked around and finally realized that the room was full of just white people as they watched the Obama crowd on election night.

Where in the helll have they been???I guess on Bullshit mountain....

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 12:29 PM

12. "Those who seem to despise half of Amer­ica will never be trusted to govern any of it.

Those who cherish only the country’s past will not be entrusted with its future. " Frum said, in Newsweek this week.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 12:31 PM

13. But he doesn't get to take the next step

It's a class war perpetuated by the rich against the rest of us, even their servants in the docile media and professional classes.

Of course they won't speak up. Is Frum just discovering facts about the media most of us here have known for years?

They don't just lie for the cash. They lie for the power, which is even more disheartening.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 12:33 PM

14. Everybody talking on TV is wearing a suit that costs more than two week's pay for the viewers...

....a few have suits worth more than six month's pay for some viewers.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 12:35 PM

15. Yep, the Limbaughs, Hannitys, Levins, Coulters, Ingrahams, O'Reillys, and their ilk

are quickly becoming irrelevant. And, its about damned time.

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Response to rateyes (Reply #15)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 01:09 PM

28. These people

 

are just Murdoch's puppets. Do you think Murdoch is going to change??? 85% of the media is owned by 5 ugly, rich white dudes. They are the problem. Murdoch gives them the ability to enrich themselves....to toss their integrity out the window. If one of them quit, he/she would just be replaced with a new Hater.

Maybe Murdoch and the other PTB wanted Obama to be the President so to lower the risk of civil disorder of the Former Middle Class and the Working Poor???

As long as these 'news' people bring in $$$, TPTB don't care what they utter. Fox is built on Hatred, Lies, Fear, and Greed.

I did hear that Coulter's last book didn't sell well. Boo-f*cking-hoo.

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Response to femrap (Reply #28)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 05:37 PM

156. Murdoch is not going to change...

... but the number of folks who watch his shit channel has been dropping for years and will continue to drop until is it not a viable business.

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Response to sendero (Reply #156)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 06:51 PM

157. He should

 

be in jail! Maybe he won't be around for long.

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Response to rateyes (Reply #15)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 02:06 PM

51. I thought that through the oughts, but they're just as relevant as ever.

The country still produces a bumper crop of low-information voters every year.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 12:37 PM

16. "....because half the country contribute nothing to the national endeavor."

He doesn't get it either.

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Response to Skidmore (Reply #16)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 12:51 PM

21. Re-read

"Mitt Romney's message is I am going to take away Medicare from everybody under 55, I'm going to cut Medicaid for everybody but about a third, and I'm going to do that to finance a giant tax cut for me and my friends, and the reason I'm doing that is because half the country contribute nothing to the national endeavor."

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 12:40 PM

17. Of Course They Ignored It

All of those hacks live in the Beltway bubble. Poor people give them the willies. They have no idea how most people live, nor do they care. They should make Chuck Toad go work at Target to make ends meet.

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Response to Bigredhunk (Reply #17)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 09:54 AM

144. I especially despise Chuck Toad. The slimy bastard is despicable.

Frum is not saying anything that hasn't been expressed thousands of times on DU. I have written several times to our local paper criticizing the absolutely abysmal lack of objective reporting. The entire Fourth Estate is dominated by paid hacks.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 12:41 PM

18. "Conservative entertainment complex":

When you live in a bubble, you are an easy mark.

Frum states the obvious: Republicans and especially Ts don't believe in reality. Who needs reality when you've got faith? Faith in Saint Reagan et al.

It shows up in how deluded even Rove and Romney's inner circle could be with regard to polls and the ground game. They were stunned by the election results and tried to argue against reality on live TV.

Exposed.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 12:41 PM

19. yep

very good description:conservative entertainment complex. Right on the money. Name, names? Limpballs, Buy farmland and guns beck, that sucker that has this show, joe scar on the television landscape Anne, the vacuous coulter:, puke: and I could go on ad nauseam. Donald, lets have a revolution, trump.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 12:53 PM

23. I believe it's math that explains the influence the Conservation Entertainment Complex

had on the outcome of the election. I'm not a mathematician, but I suspect there's an equation in there somewhere. Perhaps similar to the woman in the bar equation by John Nash, having to do with governing dynamics - the group of men going after a select base (the blond) & ignoring /insulting everyone else (her girlfriends), resulting in nobody getting a date (or "getting laid").

Like I said, I'm not a mathematician but I suspect this scenario can be explained mathematically.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 12:54 PM

24. Why did he lose?

Simple, he didn't get enough votes

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 12:57 PM

25. yeah I thought that segment was remarkable as well

and I noticed like Digby did now Joe quickly moved on after Frum said the most one of the most interesting things ever heard on his show, without seeming to notice.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 01:01 PM

27. 11:33 - "I won't soon forget the lupine smile"

"that played over the head of one major conservative.. when he told me that our donors think the apocalypse has arrived."

evil.

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Response to reflection (Reply #27)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 01:10 PM

30. It's very easy to exploit that type of thinking - which is what the CEC (Conservative Entertainment

Complex) has done - exploit the true & irrational believers - very easy to do & it's how cults operate through fear, intimidation, and lies.

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Response to reflection (Reply #27)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 01:10 PM

31. Evil and vile cynicism

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Response to reflection (Reply #27)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 02:01 PM

44. I recall that's what Herbert Hoover thought

on FDR's inauguration day.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 01:09 PM

29. To Joe's credit he did have David Frum repeat that last paragraph on how the Republican Party

had been a party of cowards, mistaken and exploited by the "conservative entertainment complex" aka; corporate media and that was pretty much the last word on the subject.

Thanks for the thread, kpete.

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Response to Uncle Joe (Reply #29)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 04:38 PM

73. But only after Halperin took over as discussion moderator and asked Frum to elaborate.

Scarborough is a dope. Gregory and Todd are not thinkers they are opinion readers.

Frum and Halperin could by themselves have a really fascinating discussion, but get rid of those other dopes.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 01:11 PM

32. K and R...nt...

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 01:14 PM

34. I would have missed this exchange had you not posted it

and I am so glad you did. It is heartening to see a Republican saying this. I wish it had been on Fox News though. The ones who need to hear this are not going to.

Thank you for posting this.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 01:18 PM

36. "The Leaders Have No Space To Operate"

Plug that statement into the "fiscal cliff" argument that is gearing up next week. John Boehner wants to be re-elected as Speaker in January so he cannot deliver on any kind of agreement on budget matters because he has no space to operate. When you are between a rock and a hard place like this what does one do? We will find out over the next 6 weeks. I'm inclined to think that Boehnor takes us over the cliff. (Frankly, worse things could happen).

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 01:27 PM

37. Bookmarking as no time to watch now

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 01:53 PM

40. Tired of Overpaid Cable/Radio Pundits telling us what to think and believe

The problem is complaining without doing anything to change this situation. Follow me here. We are a popularity based society. In other words we listen, tune in and follow these overpaid, in most cases un-knowledgeable pundits and sadly believe their words have more weight than our own. I have no idea why?

Instead of supporting Independent voices who are on podcast, radio stations, smaller TV channels or elsewhere in the media cyber-sphere, we continue to watch these.....idiots. It's time to change the message, you think?

This election proved that America is ready for true Progressive and Independent minded voices on our radio, podcast and TV airwaves. We are tired of "overpaid pundits" tell us how to vote, think, what to believe, not to believe, which issues are important or unimportant. Instead we WANT voices WE CAN connect with because they're average folks, like us.

Today, on Melissa Harris Perry show, she was talking about why Michigan failed to pass Proposal 2-The Collective Bargaining Agreement. Now this is what was funny....no, downright hilarious about this discussion. Not ONE PERSON on the panel was from Michigan.

Umm...no offense, but if your show is going to analyze why Proposal 2 failed but Proposal 1 - The Emergency Manager Law (Public Act #4) was defeated, you need to have someone in the trenches of Michigan's Political scene to truly discuss the "why so" on Proposal 2 failure. Instead, I saw the same old tired overpaid pundits discussing something they had NO IDEA about.

Anyway, I have a podcast that receives about 15K downloads a month and I'm looking to add two good Independent and/or Progressive minded co-hosts who want to be involved in what I believe is the future of "talk radio". A wide, respectful discussion of views about our political climate from the average American point of view. The podcast has been active for about two years now.

Either way, I need serious thinkers who analyze issues impacting our economy and nation, then allowing the PEOPLE to decide what should be the final solution. People want more than "overpaid" pundits telling them "what to think".

If interested, send me a P.M. on D.U. for more details!


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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 01:58 PM

42. Rove and Frum as Bialystock and Bloom-



then Frum has second thoughts...

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 01:59 PM

43. He spoke of the silenced.

And it is maybe a symptom of a broader problem, not just the Republican problem, that the economic anxieties of so many Americans are just not part of the national discussion at all. I mean, we have not yet emerged from the greatest national catastrophe, the greatest economic catastrophe since the Great Depression. And what are we talking about? The deficit and the debt.


Deficits and debts are a fair price to pay for the well-being of the nation.
Public investment is what we need.
Public attention is required for injustices to be remedied.
David Frum is aware of this reality and speaks from it.
I thank him.
He is a compassionate man from a compassionate country, Canada.

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Response to burnsei sensei (Reply #43)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 02:06 PM

50. Yep THIS ^^^^^^

And it is maybe a symptom of a broader problem, not just the Republican problem, that the economic anxieties of so many Americans are just not part of the national discussion at all.

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Response to burnsei sensei (Reply #43)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 12:23 AM

117. Didn't realize he was Canadian

That sure explains a lot

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Response to burnsei sensei (Reply #43)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 12:25 AM

118. I've never heard any conservative talk about poor people and the middle class like that before

I was shocked. Maybe there is one person out there where the term compassionate conservative actually applies.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 02:02 PM

47. I hope none of them wake up to Frum.

It's better for us for them to remain clueless!!

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 02:03 PM

49. The core value of the Republican Party is to make oodles of money for the 1%. Nothing else matters.

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Response to valerief (Reply #49)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 09:37 PM

108. If America has caught on to this, it's Obama's crowning achievement.

If the majority of American's realize this, then we'll be living in a different country.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 02:07 PM

52. Hell of a segment....

People acting rational...

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 02:11 PM

53. Thank you kpete or posting this...

I find it incredible that listening to a Republican present a cogent argument based on acknowledged facts is such a breath of fresh air. That, in my view is the real problem. How can a viable discussion be had about the very real problems our country and our world face if we cannot have a factual foundation from which to start? I think as a whole the Republican party is Mitt Romney, constantly shifting and flip flopping. If I were a conservative I would ask myself some questions, like for example why are the debt and the deficit suddenly so important, why was there absolutely zero concern over these issues in the six years my party controlled both the executive and legislative branches of government? Why, if we are the party of fiscal responsibility does our national debt sky rocket under Republican administrations? This is of course, something Mr. Frum isn't going to bring up. For all his eloquence, the real platform of the Republican party cannot be laid out on the table. They have become a single issue party, their real base is one percent of the population, and their one issue is to do everything possible to direct wealth to that one percent, their only real constituency. I think that is why the Christian Right is starting to run their own candidates, because they are sick of the Republican Party taking their votes and not delivering on the social issues that matter so deeply to them. If the Republican party were faced with a bill that eliminated all taxes on the one percent permanently and federally legalized gay marriage and permanently secured the Roe v Wade decision, there is no doubt in my mind the Republicans would pass it. I think the Christian Right might be starting to understand this as well. The Republicans can moderate their platform to draw more citizens to their party, but not without losing the Christian Right. They are going to have to make a decision, because I don't think there is anything they can do that will bring both into the tent.

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Response to Liberal1975 (Reply #53)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 03:11 PM

64. I don't understand how they think they can get the Latino vote and their base in the same tent....

They have spent four years ginning up hatred for anyone who speaks Spanish in their already bigoted wingnut base. Where are they going to hide Jan Brewer?

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Response to Walk away (Reply #64)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 03:30 PM

66. I think the only way

they can is to sever ties with the Tea Party elements of their base, if they want close the gender gap, they are going to have to sever ties with the Christian Right. If as a party they disavow these segments of their support base then I think they might have a chance, but of course they will lose their "bread and butter" Chritian Right vote which, if I am not mistaken floats at around 20 to 30 percent of the overall vote. The African American vote is gone forever. You can't demonize people over and over, decade after decade the way they have demonized African American citizens and ever get them back. That is what I think anyway, as always I could be totally wrong! Wouldn't be the first time, and it certainly wouldn't be the last!

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Response to Liberal1975 (Reply #66)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 04:37 PM

71. They tried using gay rights to split the African American vote away from the Democrats

It didn't work.

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Response to MNBrewer (Reply #71)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 05:02 PM

78. How could it?

They have duped poor uneducated whites into believing that we spend a trillion dollars on welfare (as Frum points out) And that this expenditure is going exclusively to benefit African Americans. So what they are saying is we are broke because of lazy "urban" moochers a.k.a African Americans. The so called "dog whistle" to racists, to attack Barack Obama. (It sounded more like straight up racism than a dog whistle to my ears) And even now blaming the election on the fact that people are getting stuff. Who are these "people" they refer to, I wonder. Racist white people know, and so do African Americans.

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Response to Liberal1975 (Reply #66)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 05:29 PM

80. They won't do it, that's their christian fundamentalist base. It's too large a voting block.

And their NRA base.

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Response to Dont call me Shirley (Reply #80)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 05:45 PM

81. I agree...though

If the Christian Right is going to start running candidates like Akin and Mourdoch thereby destroying their viability as a national party they might be forced to. Otherwise, they run the huge risk of having the Evangelical vote and nothing else. Their economic message (inexplicably!) still reaches a lot of people, but their culture war dung is apparently starting to turn off a large portion of the electorate.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 02:25 PM

55. No...no...no...

 

...you guys just keep watching FauxNews and listening to FatRush. They'll never lead you astray. This Frum guy is just trying to sell (electronic) books...you don't need to pay attention to him....really...I mean would Rush and the boys lie to you just so they can make money?...have they ever lied to you - up until now of course?

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 02:32 PM

56. This

 

why I reject the argument of Pundits (celebrities),rich politicians (especially the Repukes),and CEOs. Everytime they bring up the deficit and want to cut something, the poor and middleclass has to pay. Mist of the deficit or much of it in the last 10 years was created by them. It was created by their Foreign Policy decisions and huge taxcuts as well as loopholes for the rich and corporate welfare. Then they pass the Bill to the middle class and Poor by claiming we pay no taxes and are free loaders. When was the last time the middle class and poor had a raise? No wonder people are getting poorer. People like Mitt Romney just want peasants like he saw in China. The Middleclass and Poor don't have any taxes to pay. That is why they need assistance. Now they want to take that.

All they want is profits. They don't create any jobs. They want to get rid of Unions for more profits. They don't want to pay for pensions or healthcare. It is called serfdom. The rich want to live like Kings and Queens. You can only push the poor and middleclass too far until they revolt.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 02:38 PM

57. Good For Frum

Not only him but I saw Andrew Sullivan last night on "Real Time" and I watched with amazement. When I last saw him before this he was an irritant on the show, last night he came across like he's seen the light, he was like Cenk on Current TV. It was remarkable.

I give these guys a lot of credit for really looking at things, finding their humanity and soul, and then looking rationally at the crazy train that is now the republican party and seeing it for what it is. Sullivan says, and I think he's dead on, that the party needs to quit taking marching orders from Rush Limbaugh or join the Whigs in the dustbin of defunct parties.

The sane in that party are starting to peel away and often convert. Craig Paul Roberts, Susan Eisenhower, John Danforth, David Stockman and on and on. The more the merrier.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 03:04 PM

62. Frum is going to be on Real Time with Bill Maher next Friday.

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Response to Son of Gob (Reply #62)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 04:49 PM

76. ugh; I don't like Maher's format anymore... last night was just almost

unwatchable, IMO.

I want people to talk, not talk over each other.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 03:10 PM

63. what a fascinating segment

to see Joe admit that Fox news and Rush Limbaugh and Karl Rove are screwing the GOP out of existence.

It's an argument that is closer to the truth than the one I thought they would have "Romney was a flawed candidate".

Ok, yes, they did not do the deep soul searching about class and income in America but they came closer that I have seen them in years. When Frum said the bit about $1 trillion in welfare he was spot on. If you base believes welfare costs $1 trillion they are not going to be receptive to an argument about health care or immigration but those people are already sucking up $1 trillion a year. It gets at the question of poverty/middle class/income without hitting it head on.

Joe is still willing to blame "the others" in the media instead of recognizing his role in the same thing.

BTW, watch UP this morning, more great discussion about race and the election and what will become of the GOP.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 03:13 PM

65. "The people who made him wear cement shoes are blaming him for sinking"

This is a great clip. Thank you for put it up, I can only ask why didn't we hear this kind of stuff before for the election?

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Response to Dorn (Reply #65)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 11:29 AM

150. because of their tribalism?

Aside from the network behemoth that pays them to keep the ideology, is there also the herd mentality operating? Waiting to see which "team" (i.e. tribe) is winning, offering them the most protection, before committing to a position?

Just thinkin' out loud......


And great quote, thanks for that

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 03:33 PM

67. David Gregory is such a tool

Claiming that the Democrats and Obama NOT gloating like George Bush did with his second term win, that that was somehow so much different than when Obama won the first term. Implying that then Obama was all about "I won and this is what I am going to do..." and claims that the President MUST change to becoming more conciliatory because he wasn't before.


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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 03:37 PM

68. RW rado is the main problem here. LIMBAUGH! is the name they dare not speak and that they can't

is the in itself the problem- they'd rather not make waves and that name in particular will be the biggest wave-maker. especially if limbaugh decides to go on a rant and mention one or two of them.

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Response to certainot (Reply #68)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 04:29 PM

70. Their propaganda machine is biting them in the butt - the greedy pigs nt

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 03:41 PM

69. very simple; Romney is a cipher

Romney is a cipher.
never mind that he is liar; a shape shifter.
The bottom line is that he is a cipher; an empty vessel who gave the electorate absolutely nothing to vote for; no ideas, no plan, no logic.

Only nihilism.

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Response to creon (Reply #69)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 11:35 AM

151. He gave the 1% a promise of mo' money. He took everyone else to go shit in

their hat. And those who voted for him said, "Thank you, sir. May I have another?"

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Response to valerief (Reply #151)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 12:03 PM

152. yes

he is a bought and paid for nothing.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 04:37 PM

72. David Frum - rare Republican truth-teller

Noticed that for some time. His website, "Frum Forum." Worth checking out.

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Response to cilla4progress (Reply #72)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 08:46 PM

101. David Brooks says similar things, which is also why he is derided as a "moderate"...

...The fact of the matter is that Republicans are dominated by the crazy right who thing it is better to trigger a default than allow the rich to be taxed a percentage point more.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 04:42 PM

74. Frum concerns me for the following:

He provides thoughtful and convincing analysis regarding the right wing nuts but toward the end of his discussion asserts that Romney could have been a good candidate. I would argue that there is nothing in the record or in Frum's dissertation to support Romney ever being a good candidate. This is unfortunately what Frum did for John McCain as well. At the end of the day he still adheres to the Republican credo and thus weakens his original thoughtful analysis. Also keep in mind that Romney is something of a serial liar that was ever unable to be truthful and sincere. These are major character defects that no amount of campaign spending and false advertising can be overcome once the electorate discovers the true inner man. Sadly, the Republican Party is destined to lie on the threshing room floor foe the next 20-25 years, thereby making it easier for the Democratic Party to impose its will on the electorate. Lets hope that they are more thoughtful than the sad lot of Republicans.

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Response to Tutonic (Reply #74)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 06:02 PM

83. I found that curious as well. How, after all he said, could he think Romney would make a good pres?

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Response to Tutonic (Reply #74)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 08:43 AM

136. That's the thing, Frum thinks the Republicans have deviated from a more ideal course...

...conveniently forgetting that Ronald Reagan won the presidency using the same set of tools. He himself was part of it: isn't his big claim to fame writing the "axis of evil" speech for Bush*? Did he really believe AEI was nonparitsan?

Ever since the Voting Rights Act the Republicans have laid out a nice comfy LaZBoy for rank bigots and nutbars, made sure they had all the drinks, snacks, and smokes they could want, all in front of a big screen with top-notch audio to tell them how right they were. They fed this beast, even as guys like Buckley put up and painted some drywall so they could invite in Very Serious Respectable People while pretending the Crazy Room was in some other house (if it existed at all and wasn't just a nasty smear by those hippy liberals).

And now there's too many people making too much money off feeding the beast, and the people who have the incentive to put it on a diet are not part of the supply chain. They outsourced it, and the vendors don't need the middleman anymore.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 04:58 PM

77. Poignant !

Bookmarked to share with others.
Thanks for the clip.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 05:25 PM

79. so many good points on this clip

I like how it ends with Joe implying that what is good for bu$ine$$ can be bad and hurt collective group.

So, the republican brand is a victim of their own cancer-stage capitalism.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 06:03 PM

84. K&R

It's the GOP's Waterloo
by David Frum, formerly at AEI
Posted Mar 21, 2010


Excerpt:
We followed the most radical voices in the party and the movement, and they led us to abject and irreversible defeat.

There were leaders who knew better, who would have liked to deal. But they were trapped. Conservative talkers on Fox and talk radio had whipped the Republican voting base into such a frenzy that deal-making was rendered impossible. How do you negotiate with somebody who wants to murder your grandmother?

Overheated talk mobilizes supporters – but by mobilizing them with hysterical accusations and pseudo-information, overheated talk has made it impossible for representatives to represent and elected leaders to lead. The real leaders are on TV and radio, and they have very different imperatives from people in government.

When Rush said that he wanted Obama to fail, what he omitted to say is that he also wants Republicans to fail. If Republicans succeed – if they govern successfully in office and negotiate attractive compromises out of office – Rush’s listeners get less angry. And if they are less angry, they listen to the radio less, and hear fewer ads for Sleepnumber beds.

Obamacare is a huge win for the conservative entertainment industry. Their listeners and viewers will now be even more enraged, even more frustrated, even more disappointed in everybody except the responsibility-free talkers on television and radio. For them, it’s mission accomplished. For the cause they purport to represent, it’s Waterloo all right: Ours.

http://www.dailykos.com/tv/w/002619/


March 25, 2010, 5:21 pm
David Frum, AEI, Heritage And Health Care


David Frum* has been fired by the American Enterprise Institute; one has to assume that this is a response to his outspokenness about the Republican failure on health reform.

In discussing the Frum firing, Bruce Bartlett asserts that AEI has muzzled its health-care experts, because the truth is that they agree with a lot of what Obama is proposing. I find this quite believable; back in 2003 Stuart Butler of the Heritage Foundation, which is supposedly harder-right than AEI, proposed a health care reform consisting of … drumroll … an individual mandate coupled with subsidies to make insurance affordable. In short, Obamacare.

I was struck, by the way, by Butler’s recommendation that we:

''Provide support to people to obtain health care based on their need, not where they happen to work, or their eligibility for welfare, or their military record, or their age.''

From each according to his ability, to each according to his need? http://tinyurl.com/wvrqw

*I’m informed, by family members, that Frum is a distant cousin of yours truly.
~ Paul Krugman http://tinyurl.com/yed2ga3



- We live in a fractal universe. There is nothing new under the sun. One day we'll know what that truly means.........

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Response to DeSwiss (Reply #84)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 10:16 AM

147. If anyone thinks that the GOP will magically transform itself they are delusional.

The White Southern Evangelical, Flat Earthers, anti-evolutionists, are they backbone of the Republican Party. The are not about to have a miraculous transformation from knuckle dragging neanderthals to blinding enlightenment. The GOP has tied their can to these ridiculous nincompoops and have sealed their own demise. If the GOP suddenly disassociates themselves from them they only constituency they will have left is the old White over 65 grumps.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 06:03 PM

85. Did Chuck Todd break his mirror?

Whenever he was on the only thing I could pay attention to was how uneven and awful his facial hair looked!

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Response to cui bono (Reply #85)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 08:07 PM

96. I know it is petty

but his facial hair drives me nuts. Someone needs to tell him he is NOT the goatee type. It has looked that bad for a long time and I still can't get used to it.

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Response to PatSeg (Reply #96)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 08:30 PM

98. I agree. But this time it really looked completely crooked,

I couldn't stop staring at it!

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Response to cui bono (Reply #98)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 09:31 PM

107. Guess it was worse than usual

as I couldn't stop looking at it either. I barely heard a word he said because it was such a distraction, but with Chuck Todd that could be a blessing.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 06:04 PM

86. I saw this and was amazed

amazed at their lack of response, but also amazed at David Frum. He really nailed it, and this coming from a Bush elitist

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 06:34 PM

87. Two thoughts

1: Whenever I watch Morning Joe (which is very rare), it feels like it turns my brain into cottage cheese.

2: Although I have huge differences with Frum (and I still hold him accountable for the stupid "axis of evil" nonsense), I have always respected his more lucid political analyses.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 06:37 PM

89. f.u.c.k.i.n.g.a.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 07:08 PM

90. I saw this

and there was never a time when I thought I'd be a fan of David Frum, but he summed it all up clearly and brutally. After seeing this, I bought his e-book. Never thought I'd buy a David Frum book.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 07:10 PM

91. Priceless.

I just down loaded a sample of his book onto my ipad. It's reconnaissance.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 07:38 PM

92. That maybe the first shot in the Republican civil war

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 07:45 PM

94. Keep in mind that this is not a retrospective dump from Frum.

He has been saying this since around 2009. He got fired from his think tank because he raised questions about whether the conservative movement was becoming too extreme.
I view David Frum as the Deng Xiaoping of the Republican Party. He is the voice of pragmatism among the extreme ideological shouters. He has been exiled for the moment but in the end the more you listen to him, the more what he says makes sense and it is because of that common sense the Republicans will eventually have to concede to him. How long it will take for them to come around is debatable.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 08:14 PM

97. Yep-- they thoroughly ignored his point about the majority being disregarded.

What he said about how the only people allowed any voice already have health insurance and plenty of money-- it was profoundly important, but those fat and happy beltway nitwits KNEW to ignore it. The only way you will ever hear class discussed by people like that on television is when they're discussing how lazy and ungrateful the bottom 80% is, and how they're just not sacrificing enough to their betters.

I don't know if they ignored it because they know it's something not to be discussed, or because they have absolutely no interest in it. I expect it's the latter.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 08:33 PM

99. Gore and Clinton were right. The corporate media is the BIGGEST threat to our democracy. nt

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 08:40 PM

100. Kick and Rec. That is just wonderful.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 08:51 PM

102. I knew there had to be

one reasonable republican.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 09:00 PM

103. Andrea "Greenspan" Michell

This woman on her show November 8th couldnt even say the word TAXES, she could only say something along the lines of, "the rich now have to pay.....a down payment", wtf! Honestly she couldnt even acknowledge the word taxes knowing she and her husband have to pay up now. Ive been trying to give MSNBC a chance but after next weeks budget talks, Im done with this network.

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Response to MissNostalgia (Reply #103)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 08:10 AM

134. She is pathetic.

She always sounds like she's asking very shameful questions and is afraid to actually come out and say the dirty words.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 09:06 PM

104. "Conservative entertainment complex"

That's so accurate.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 09:11 PM

105. Hey.... remember this? Oct 2008?

&feature=related



It's nice to know he's rude to both sides! (and his fears about his own party back then have been realized... and he's STILL trying to tell it on the mountain)

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 09:27 PM

106. Holy Shit Balls, someone on the CORPORATE media told the truth. Bravo FRUM

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 09:50 PM

109. I Want The Repugs To Remain Clueless and Crazy !

Look the Obama presidency is center right .. far from being anywhere near socialist, as so many on the right accuse him of being. We've already got Republican Lite, I honestly don't want there to be any blurring to happen. As Dems become more right Republicans will meet them in the middle .. especially for the next election cycle. I am left, and will die left .. I want an end to Plutocracy. Although it is good to hear someone like Frum espousing the truth, but where was this dialogue before Romney lost? Huh? So now the "moderate" Republicans are chiming in about what went wrong. Oh brother. Give me a break.

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Response to YOHABLO (Reply #109)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 11:59 PM

115. I don't

the country doesn't need an opposition party so disconnected from reality that it's willing send the country off a cliff.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 09:56 PM

110. ! saving

For later. This looks pretty intriguing

Thanks for this....I wouldn't have known otherwise

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 10:54 PM

112. An AWESOME 5 minutes of Truth

After all the chatter about "demographics', "ground games", etc. this dude,

whom I believed to be a repuke, came out with the simplest and truest

"explanation" I'd heard from just about any talking head on the air.

A simple scenario Dems saw coming right out of the gate:

"Offering" the middle class more "cuts" so the One Percent

could get more Tax Cuts -- It WAS really simple, and I'm amazed

That the Repukes thought We the People would fall for it.

Repukes like RMoney & Scarborough were apparently amazed

that we didn't.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Nov 10, 2012, 11:15 PM

113. Paul Ryan's job was to sell our lives. Shameful! He is ruined in politics. Thanks! for spanking him

VP Biden!

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 12:16 AM

116. Looks like they want to 'turn' on the millionnaires at FUX...

for lying for cash... duh...

Bring it on.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 12:36 AM

119. Frum's indictment is powerful. It is beyond me why he endorsed Romney.


He has been off the Republican reservation for a long time, and this is not the first eloquent indictment he has made (though probably the most powerful.)

His last minute endorsement of Romney surprised me.



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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 01:11 AM

120. Bookmarked! Needs to be brought up again by Social Media..again and again..

Remember the day David Frum pwned Todd, joe, and david gregory?! We do!

Wonder who's on Sunday Gas Bags? All repubs? Token Dems? I don't know yet..just going by their lame history.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 01:29 AM

121. Also that one: "do we spend a trillion dollars on welfare?"

"do we spend a trillion dollars on welfare?" Is that true or false? It is false.


I guess it depends on 'which' welfare... I bet it is true for corporate welfare...

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 02:51 AM

126. "Dared to answer?" What does that mean, or suggest?

Joe S asked him to REPEAT it, he did so, and they didn't disagree.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 02:58 AM

127. wow, that was stunning.

It was just stunning how Frum would make a point and Scarborough would just pivot away from whatever he said and ask some unrelated question to Chuck Todd.

Seemed to be a perfect example of a Republican (Scarborough) being unwilling to deal with the reality of the situation.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 03:46 AM

129. Lindsey Graham

said they don't produce enough angry white guys to be relevant. The demographic shift hasn't registered yet and they're still playing by the same rules they did 20 years ago. They got away with taking the house in 2010 because midterm elections are poorly attended. By getting their base fully engaged with a concentrated well funded fear campaign the Republicans were able to hold sway over the House with that strategy.
Recall how they had well planned disruptions at congressional town hall meetings.
Frum mentioned the cowards who won't stand up to the radical fringe as a source of their failure. He also cites their entertainment (really propaganda) wing as a source for failure.
The dupes who came out in costume to town hall meetings, some packing heat, were lied to and didn't have the critical and conceptional thinking skills to understand they were being used. Fear mongering works best on the weak minded and easily swayed.
The old model isn't working because the general election gets Democrats more active than the midterms.
The Republicans have more zealots, hence the midterm success, but in general, the Democrats have a clear majority.
The real trick for the Democrats will be to energize the base for the midterms in 2014, so as to run a sword through the minority party and cause long term damage.
Karl Rove is weakened and ready to be dispatched. But the son of a bitch is like a vampire that can only be stopped by a wooden stake through the heart. Anyone willing to commit treason for political revenge should always be considered dangerous. Davis Frum better watch his ass.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 05:05 AM

130. Fleeced, exploited & lied to by the conservative entertainment industry.

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Response to Historic NY (Reply #130)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 09:34 AM

140. That struck me as well

Entertainment complex. Max Headroom. Faux snooze.

Pure propaganda. RMoney trusts authority. And his handlers fleeced him and kept him in the dark.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 06:43 AM

132. All Too Rare

A Republican who's willing to publicly acknowledge that Democrats have a point and who's not a complete shill for big money.

However let's keep in mind that he's still a Republican and no friend of the average lower to middle class American.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 08:47 AM

137. As if you're not part of the problem, Scar!

He speaks as if he's not part of that same Entertainment Establishment. Liar, scoundrel, hypocrite!

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 09:35 AM

141. david gregory can always find a bright light for republicans, even in the darkest night

he's the problem

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 09:53 AM

143. Frum: "Mitt Romney could have been a really good president". I really don't understand

his thinking on that.

For Romney, there's no there, there. He doesn't have the ability to understand what life is really like for people who aren't billionaires and don't have elevators for their cars.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 09:59 AM

146. Conservative entertainment complex

perfect name!

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 10:57 AM

148. AS I've been pointing out here, and over at the Orange Site:

 

the GOP (wealthy one percent) and their well-paid hacks on TV/radio like Joe have a very narrow agenda: Portray the poor, put upon wealthy class as the VICTIMS of a horrible system-- totally stacked against them... and the (LMAOF) notion that the wealthy class alone are going to save the day for us economically.

as one of the talking heads on NPR's Diane Rehm show pointed out this past week, regarding the outcome of the election: "the people are not buying what the GOP is selling" and a large part of that is the bullshit propaganda above.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 04:49 PM

155. W understood NOTHING! BOTH elections were STOLEN for him!

LET these effin talking heads and ALL the talking heads ARGUE their asses off for the rest of time. Trying to understand wha hoppened?

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 07:20 PM

158. Conservatives have been lied to. That was the basic premise over the Gravis affair.


The primary victims are the conservatives who clinged to his outrageous polls and started throwing money at Romney.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Nov 11, 2012, 08:28 PM

159. Day-um! Now that's good shit!

David Frum should be the guy that Republicans should tap to bring their party back from this precipice. I will bet 10 of your favorite monetary units (not ounces of gold) that the Republicans will not, as a whole, do that very thing.

Frum is not stupid. He sees things in the pure white light of day. The Republicans ignore what he says at their peril.

This video is a must see for all DUers.

The best analysis of the 2012 election I've heard yet. And it came from Morning Joe no less.

Day-um!

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 05:42 PM

165. I pretty much hate all these people.

You are correct and it is worthwhile to listen to it. The "journalists" in that circus are a disgrace to that profession.

Frum's best comments were about the TV talking heads being disingenuous about the average citizens suffering and how an activist minority, the tea baggers and the tycoon financiers, really screwed with the average basically good and patriotic Conservative.

Frum cancelled out all his good comments by stating that Rmoney would have been a good President. He is wrong. For the middle clas that drives roughly 40% of our economy it would have been a disaster to elect that clown.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Nov 12, 2012, 05:44 PM

166. does this mean they will finally kick Rush and FOX news to the curb?

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Nov 13, 2012, 07:02 AM

167. The question is, why is the activist/donor base so fricken gullible that they can be so easily

fleeced and exploited? After all, when one drinks from the same "poisoned well" every day, what do they expect?

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