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Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:36 PM

I am not a troll.

Been here eleven years.

I am very disappointed in tonight's debate. Far, far too many opportunities simply wasted.

Counting on the press and the Obama campaign ads to catch all of Romney's lies tonight is a poor strategy. Believing debates really don't make a difference is whistling past the graveyard.

The media has been slavering for an opportunity to run "Romney's back, it's close!" across the sky. Tonight, they got it. Romney looked like he wanted it more, and when lies don't get called out, they tend to stand.

I am not a troll.

This was not a good night.

P.S. "The moderator sucked" is no excuse. Lehrer was a train wreck, but Obama had a dozen opportunities to draw blood - big fat hanging meatballs over the plate - and he failed to swing at pretty much all of them.

196 replies, 17021 views

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Reply I am not a troll. (Original post)
WilliamPitt Oct 2012 OP
cali Oct 2012 #1
wendylaroux Oct 2012 #7
bluestate10 Oct 2012 #83
joshcryer Oct 2012 #110
highplainsdem Oct 2012 #2
Supersedeas Oct 2012 #88
R. Daneel Olivaw Oct 2012 #145
fishwax Oct 2012 #3
Rosa Luxemburg Oct 2012 #67
nc4bo Oct 2012 #4
Fearless Oct 2012 #5
Safetykitten Oct 2012 #6
LibraLiz1973 Oct 2012 #40
flyguyjake Oct 2012 #8
Honeycombe8 Oct 2012 #9
Zorra Oct 2012 #10
Poll_Blind Oct 2012 #11
Emit Oct 2012 #12
Bernardo de La Paz Oct 2012 #161
Lex Oct 2012 #13
LibraLiz1973 Oct 2012 #44
Lex Oct 2012 #48
ChairmanAgnostic Oct 2012 #89
Lex Oct 2012 #104
former-republican Oct 2012 #109
ChairmanAgnostic Oct 2012 #196
former-republican Oct 2012 #107
Lex Oct 2012 #113
former-republican Oct 2012 #119
bluestate10 Oct 2012 #91
Lex Oct 2012 #106
jsr Oct 2012 #133
Tumbulu Oct 2012 #138
R. Daneel Olivaw Oct 2012 #14
NYC_SKP Oct 2012 #15
nc4bo Oct 2012 #30
NYC_SKP Oct 2012 #42
DonRedwood Oct 2012 #50
Baitball Blogger Oct 2012 #56
AverageJoe90 Oct 2012 #116
Doctor_J Oct 2012 #163
Blanks Oct 2012 #182
Honeycombe8 Oct 2012 #57
NYC_SKP Oct 2012 #74
Separation Oct 2012 #97
NYC_SKP Oct 2012 #111
DirkGently Oct 2012 #16
piratefish08 Oct 2012 #17
OldDem2012 Oct 2012 #18
LibraLiz1973 Oct 2012 #59
Duppers Oct 2012 #75
n2doc Oct 2012 #171
Johonny Oct 2012 #87
CrispyQ Oct 2012 #174
GreenPartyVoter Oct 2012 #19
Nye Bevan Oct 2012 #20
PA Democrat Oct 2012 #21
bluestate10 Oct 2012 #92
madokie Oct 2012 #22
progressivebydesign Oct 2012 #23
WinkyDink Oct 2012 #34
freshwest Oct 2012 #151
WinkyDink Oct 2012 #24
Bonobo Oct 2012 #25
LondonReign2 Oct 2012 #26
nc4bo Oct 2012 #37
LondonReign2 Oct 2012 #98
RKP5637 Oct 2012 #27
trailmonkee Oct 2012 #28
NYC Liberal Oct 2012 #29
Proles Oct 2012 #31
bullwinkle428 Oct 2012 #32
johnnie Oct 2012 #33
karynnj Oct 2012 #125
Canuckistanian Oct 2012 #35
LibraLiz1973 Oct 2012 #36
Poll_Blind Oct 2012 #46
bluestate10 Oct 2012 #95
reflection Oct 2012 #38
Lars39 Oct 2012 #39
nc4bo Oct 2012 #45
JohnnyLib2 Oct 2012 #41
MuseRider Oct 2012 #43
tandot Oct 2012 #47
xchrom Oct 2012 #49
treestar Oct 2012 #51
quakerboy Oct 2012 #52
deutsey Oct 2012 #53
former-republican Oct 2012 #54
nc4bo Oct 2012 #69
former-republican Oct 2012 #94
NRaleighLiberal Oct 2012 #55
d_b Oct 2012 #58
MannyGoldstein Oct 2012 #60
one_voice Oct 2012 #61
bluestate10 Oct 2012 #99
Gregorian Oct 2012 #62
flyguyjake Oct 2012 #63
MichiganVote Oct 2012 #64
L0oniX Oct 2012 #65
NYC_SKP Oct 2012 #66
Quantess Oct 2012 #184
McCamy Taylor Oct 2012 #68
Life Long Dem Oct 2012 #70
porphyrian Oct 2012 #71
gulliver Oct 2012 #72
freshwest Oct 2012 #154
Codeine Oct 2012 #73
Poll_Blind Oct 2012 #78
UnrepentantLiberal Oct 2012 #76
flyguyjake Oct 2012 #77
juajen Oct 2012 #79
MrMickeysMom Oct 2012 #80
bluestate10 Oct 2012 #81
proud2BlibKansan Oct 2012 #82
mulsh Oct 2012 #84
bluestate10 Oct 2012 #100
Zero Division Oct 2012 #85
devilgrrl Oct 2012 #86
Crewleader Oct 2012 #90
Raven Oct 2012 #176
Crewleader Oct 2012 #195
HR_Pufnstuf Oct 2012 #93
MissDeeds Oct 2012 #96
riderinthestorm Oct 2012 #101
LittleBlue Oct 2012 #102
swishyfeet Oct 2012 #103
hay rick Oct 2012 #105
kentuck Oct 2012 #108
hay rick Oct 2012 #120
jsmirman Oct 2012 #112
Major Hogwash Oct 2012 #114
pa28 Oct 2012 #118
calimary Oct 2012 #134
myrna minx Oct 2012 #167
jsmirman Oct 2012 #115
jillan Oct 2012 #117
obamanut2012 Oct 2012 #122
obamanut2012 Oct 2012 #121
jsmirman Oct 2012 #132
obamanut2012 Oct 2012 #137
jsmirman Oct 2012 #141
Ellipsis Oct 2012 #143
WilliamPitt Oct 2012 #156
jsmirman Oct 2012 #157
obamanut2012 Oct 2012 #169
pa28 Oct 2012 #123
cwydro Oct 2012 #124
Tarheel_Dem Oct 2012 #126
LiberalAndProud Oct 2012 #127
CokeMachine Oct 2012 #128
Ellipsis Oct 2012 #129
Common Sense Party Oct 2012 #130
Ellipsis Oct 2012 #135
jsr Oct 2012 #131
blogslut Oct 2012 #136
Ellipsis Oct 2012 #139
deaniac21 Oct 2012 #140
blogslut Oct 2012 #142
deaniac21 Oct 2012 #173
Jack Sprat Oct 2012 #144
Bernardo de La Paz Oct 2012 #160
darkangel218 Oct 2012 #172
hfojvt Oct 2012 #146
avaistheone1 Oct 2012 #147
lutefisk Oct 2012 #148
Skelly Oct 2012 #149
Marrah_G Oct 2012 #150
alp227 Oct 2012 #152
napkinz Oct 2012 #180
cwydro Oct 2012 #153
Summer Hathaway Oct 2012 #155
FrenchieCat Oct 2012 #158
truebrit71 Oct 2012 #179
whathehell Oct 2012 #159
Doctor_J Oct 2012 #162
Hell Hath No Fury Oct 2012 #164
napkinz Oct 2012 #165
watercolors Oct 2012 #166
napkinz Oct 2012 #181
99Forever Oct 2012 #168
davidpdx Oct 2012 #170
bigwillq Oct 2012 #175
truebrit71 Oct 2012 #177
WilliamPitt Oct 2012 #185
truebrit71 Oct 2012 #186
WilliamPitt Oct 2012 #187
truebrit71 Oct 2012 #188
WilliamPitt Oct 2012 #189
truebrit71 Oct 2012 #190
liberal_at_heart Oct 2012 #178
Scootaloo Oct 2012 #183
retread Oct 2012 #191
onecent Oct 2012 #192
savalez Oct 2012 #193
steve2470 Oct 2012 #194

Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:37 PM

1. I am not a troll

And I sadly agree with every word in your op.

I have a heavy heart right now.

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Response to cali (Reply #1)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:41 PM

7. Yeah me too.

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Response to cali (Reply #1)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:09 PM

83. So do I. President Obama didn't call Romney on Romney's lies.

President Obama let Leher push him around for time. President Obama rambled and didn't attack Romney's lies.

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Response to bluestate10 (Reply #83)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:39 PM

110. That was my take as well.

Can't let them get away with their lies. The one that struck me the most was the oil subsidy lie. Renewables pay themselves back, etc. The oil subsidy is more than $4 billion. I dunno it was really nasty.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:40 PM

2. I am not a troll. And I agree that tonight's debate didn't go well for the President.

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Response to highplainsdem (Reply #2)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:13 PM

88. Romney was a staggered and wounded candidate, ready to be finished off...

this was an opportunity to put him away...and an opportunity squandered.

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Response to Supersedeas (Reply #88)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 12:42 AM

145. Yeah, wih all of he shit that could have been used agains rMoney


you would have figured that Obama would have bee m or ready.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:40 PM

3. I am not a troll. I don't think it was all that bad.

There were missed opportunities. I wish he'd hit on the 47%, and I wish he'd more forcefully responded to the repeated 716b distortion. And I wish he hadn't begun his social security answer the way he did.

And I agree with how the media will be eager to spin a "romney's back" line. But as far as how Obama did: it could have been better, but it wasn't that bad. And as for how Romney did: it wasn't all that great.

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Response to fishwax (Reply #3)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:59 PM

67. I am not a troll but

I think Obama got there in the end.

at the end of the debate Romney looked like fluff

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:41 PM

4. I am not a troll and I am disappointed. nm

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:41 PM

5. I am not a troll

I've been here seven years.

The president was awful. He had no PASSION tonight.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:41 PM

6. I am not a troll. This was Twilight Zone episode.

 

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Response to Safetykitten (Reply #6)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:50 PM

40. You're exactly right! It was like Barack had been sucked out of his body

So bizzare.

what was that?!?!

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:41 PM

8. I am not troll.. and Obama sucked!

 

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:41 PM

9. I am not a troll. It was not a good debate for Obama. nt

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:42 PM

10. Oh, shit.

I did not watch the debate.

Seeing "I am not a troll" in your subject line said it all...the last thing I wanted to see, and I knew what it meant immediately.

Shit.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:42 PM

11. I am not a troll

And I also agree with your sentiments.

PB

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:42 PM

12. Obama was definitely off his game tonight

Seemed tired. I wanted him to be more aggressive - esp. about that gdamned $700B cut from Medicare crap Romney kept spewing.

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Response to Emit (Reply #12)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:48 AM

161. No, on his game. Obama won the female voters on Soc. Sec. & generated no negatives. Romney has

No, on his game. Obama won the female voters on Soc. Sec. & generated no negatives. Female response lines tanked (on CNN, by DU report) whenever Obama went a little negative which wasn't often, so the obvious conclusion is that Obama had already pre-tested that and avoided it.

It's a feint, a boxer's dodge. He appears to have lost the first debate but Romney will get picked apart. Obama's campaign will pick up momentum as Romney continues to fall apart. The Romney-bot will get over-confident and contradict himself or forget himself and go off on a tangent about how in touch he is with his big CEO pals, etc.

It's the ultimate low-expectations game. Romney will go into debates 2 and 3 full of himself and will stumble badly and Obama will mop the floor with him when it counts, close to the election when it stays in people's memories.

Romney defecated lies all over the stage and will have to eat shit for days.

Biden will be the attack dog. Republicans are expecting Ryan will walk all over him since he is supposed to be "gaffe-prone", but they have thrown a young guy out of his depth up against a master.

Debate 2 with the town hall format will reveal Romney as a fake carer.

Debate 3 with the foreign policy focus will show Romney as the rash neo-con con-con warmonger.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:42 PM

13. I am not a troll and I think the President was advised to be "Presidential" so

that reigned him in.


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Response to Lex (Reply #13)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:51 PM

44. He didn't come off Presidential

He came off tired, disinterested, annoyed, lackluster.

If I wore a tin foil hat, I'd swear that was an impostor.

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Response to LibraLiz1973 (Reply #44)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:52 PM

48. No, he was Presidential.

Romney came off as shrill and bleary-eyed.

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Response to Lex (Reply #48)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:13 PM

89. uh huh. and when was he presidential?

and while Rmoney was shrill, he was far more effective.

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Response to ChairmanAgnostic (Reply #89)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:34 PM

104. By not getting rattled by Romney's lies and shrillness.

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Response to Lex (Reply #104)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:38 PM

109. He didn't get rattled but he let huge chances slip by

 

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Response to former-republican (Reply #109)

Fri Oct 5, 2012, 10:00 AM

196. unforgivably so.

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Response to ChairmanAgnostic (Reply #89)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:36 PM

107. He didn't go down in dirt, He was Presidential

 

He could have brought up Bain , he could have said about jobs Romney's firm shipped to China
He could have talked about harvesting companies and breaking them up for profit and not caring about how some workers lot their jobs.

He could talked about the 47%

There's a ton of stuff but Obama tried to Take the High Road

It was the wrong move and he should have got in Romney's face

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Response to former-republican (Reply #107)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:40 PM

113. No, he should NOT have gotten in Romney face.

That would've been a terrible strategy. He would've looked angry and like Romney was getting to him.

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Response to Lex (Reply #113)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:52 PM

119. I disagree , I think that's what the voters wanted to see

 

Instead he looked at times timid up there.

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Response to Lex (Reply #48)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:14 PM

91. President Obama was not good in the debate.

His answers were not crisp. Obama let Romney lie his ass off. Obama let Romney romanticize state's rights. Obama failed to point out how Obamacare would be controlled by states under a consistent format. President Obama recovered some lost ground at the end, but Obama allowed Romney to lie, lie, lie.

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Response to bluestate10 (Reply #91)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:35 PM

106. He let Romney talk himself into a corner, which he'll have to defend now (Romney will)

on the campaign trail.

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Response to LibraLiz1973 (Reply #44)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 12:10 AM

133. Yes, he looked tired and somewhat unprepared

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Response to LibraLiz1973 (Reply #44)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 12:16 AM

138. My best guess is that he is working outrageously hard on a whole bunch of things

such as actually running the country with endless national security things hitting him all the while campaigning and dealing with who knows what- and then he has to do this sort of stuff.

My goodness he had to stand there and "debate" a real idiot who he knows is a liar and is behind all these very nasty attacks on his mother.... I sensed a part of him feeling "OK, if you all don't really want me here, then fine, my life would be so much easier if I retired now" . Knowing as soon as the "debate" was over 15 crucial things would come up.

I felt very sorry for him and grateful that he has not given up or lost his cool.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:42 PM

14. So no "Martha Coakly will win, bank on it!" post from you tonight?

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:42 PM

15. This was not a bad night.

This was a draw, no more no less.

If this was the last debate, or the one and only debate, it would be a disappointment.

But this is part one of three, in which Obama plays casual and lets Mitt redefine himself.

Manage your expectations.

Look at the big picture. It's a marathon.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #15)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:46 PM

30. Ok NYC

Looking for the proverbial silver lining and Rolaids - gonna take what you said and hold on to it like a warm fuzzy teddybear.

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Response to nc4bo (Reply #30)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:51 PM

42. Obama deliberately let Mitt paint himself into 27 different corners.

And after the pundits settle down, and WillPitt calms down, and DU calms down, Obama is going to carefully craft what happened tonight into something that wins the election.

Of course MSNBC are going to call this a loss, that's how this goes every year.

Just watch.

And hang on to that fuzzy bear!

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #42)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:53 PM

50. Exactly... when mitt's facts are checked he'll have pretty much hung himself as a liar

Obama didn't have to call him a liar. He's going to let everyone else do it for him.

He stays above the muck. That is why I think he won.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #42)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:55 PM

56. We can only hope that someone is collecting Mitt's lies and make good advertisements.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #42)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:45 PM

116. Pretty much.

Frankly, I was a little disappointed, but he did okay. In fact, this may very well have been a rope-a-dope; Romney already slipped up a few times, and barring divine intervention, this isn't going to get better for Mittens.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #42)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 07:30 AM

163. No, he let Willard present bald-faced lies uncontested

You are either proud of, and familiar with, your accomplishments and positions, or you're not. You're either a fighter or you're not. You're a leader or not.

He will have a difficult time recovering from this. Rmoney's campaign will be energized by last night. Obama's will be discouraged.

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Response to Doctor_J (Reply #163)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 01:13 PM

182. I would be very surprised if the Obama campaign is discouraged...

The president smiled several times and looked sincere. He made good points on the Dodd-Frank bill.

Romney appeared respectful to the president. Romney is no where near the orator that Reagan was. Obama has a crack team of responders.

The Obama camp has no reason to be discouraged after the presidents performance in the first of three debates.

Everyone needs to practice saying 'the president kicked Romney's ass in the debates'. That's what we should be saying; at least to independents.

Sure he could have done better, but he did fine for the first debate.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #15)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:56 PM

57. I hope you're right. Most people won't watch the next 2 debates, tho. nt

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #57)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:01 PM

74. If anything close to 0.5% of the actual voters were swayed by this one debate alone...

It might be a problem.

But just like the primaries and the first GE, this is a piece of a puzzle and it's the entire puzzle and not the piece that makes the win.

I think it was absolutely deliberately played down by Obama.

I'm certain of it.

Rope a dope.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #15)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:23 PM

97. NYC_SKP on target

New poster here but have lurked here for years. I figure now is a good as time as any to join up.

I agree with you NYC. IMHO I think it was a draw but favored Obama. It seemed to me that Romney was always on the defense having to re-explain everything after being called on his BS. By the time he was done most people probably forgot what he was even talking about.

Obama is such a better speaker, more natural and flowing. I think the more Romney speaks, the more people will see that he views himself higher than us.

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Response to Separation (Reply #97)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:39 PM

111. Methodical, let Romney weave the tangled web.

Now he's got to own it all.

Absolutely deliberate, Obama never fucks up a match like this, it was designed to go this way.

Welcome to DU, Separation!

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:42 PM

16. You're not a troll. Romney lied. Leher napped. Obama laid back.


Romney tied it all up with glib denials of everything he's said before. Leher let him. Obama didn't seem to want to mix it up.

He seemed ... tired? Hesitant? Looking down and smiling shyly?

And what's with letting the Medicare cut lie go on and on and on and on?

Weird and depressing. Obama needs to smash this guy. He didn't do it tonight.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:42 PM

17. yup sucked.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:42 PM

18. Wait for the fact-checkers. Mitt lied most of the night....

...and that will be evident tomorrow.

Freakin' MSNBC commentators have lost their minds....except for Al Sharpton who pointed out every lie told by Mitt.

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Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #18)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:57 PM

59. Fact checkers can't save this

Because IDIOTS don't wait for fact checkers, or pay attention to them.
Obama didn't check that fool with the facts, and now
people who don't pay attention are walking around with
a whole new opinion of Romney.
Most of those people won't pay one ounce of attention to the fact checkers.

Dammit.

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Response to LibraLiz1973 (Reply #59)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:02 PM

75. +100

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Response to LibraLiz1973 (Reply #59)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 09:18 AM

171. Also most 'fact checkers' are 'Centrists'

They really really want to show that both sides 'do it'. So they will nit pick at Obama and play down Rmoney's lies, just so it sounds even handed. They are not on the side of truth.

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Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #18)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:13 PM

87. I agree-Obama saves his likablity be letting Biden and other attack Romney Tommorrow

it has been their strategy all election season we do people think it changes tonight?

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Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #18)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 11:09 AM

174. CNN is chortling how 65% think Romney won. That's the only fact they care about.

Last edited Thu Oct 4, 2012, 12:30 PM - Edit history (1)

I will be very surprised if "keeping them honest" Cooper actually checks anything.

on edit: Color me shocked (19 sec video): http://www.democraticunderground.com/101763966

Not Cooper, but Gergen!

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:42 PM

19. Hear, hear.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:43 PM

20. You are one of the very few DUers who can make posts like that

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:43 PM

21. Did you hear Chris Matthews?

He is taking Obama to the woodshed for not hitting back at Romney for his blatant LIES.

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Response to PA Democrat (Reply #21)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:16 PM

92. Matthews is right. President Obama stood there and watched Romney lie his ass off.

It was fucking enraging to watch.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:43 PM

22. That is your opinion and you are entitled to it

but it is not how I seen it at all. Obama talked in factual statements where robme rambled on, at one point he even proclaims, I just thought of this, whatever it was, I lost it in all his rambling. No Obama did not lose this debate by any stretch of anyones imagination

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:44 PM

23. Im not a troll and I disagree completely.

Sorry, but outside the vacuum of DU, I am watching REAL TIME conversations on facebook, and ALL people are talking about is:


"what the hell is with that smirk???"

"Romney looks unhinged"

"what an asshole for interrupting the moderator."

Not ONE person, is talking about Romney winning the debate, or making any points.. they are all focused on how cool and presidential the President is, and what an crazy ass Romney is.

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Response to progressivebydesign (Reply #23)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:47 PM

34. Are you watching post-debate TV?

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Response to progressivebydesign (Reply #23)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 01:39 AM

151. Thanks for another perspective.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:44 PM

24. I am not a troll, and I'm agreeing 100% with Tweety's analysis of INCREDULITY about Obama's lack of

forceful performance.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:45 PM

25. I've been here a decade and I am getting tired of people insinuating that I am a troll.

Simply because I try to stay consistent with my ideals.

Romney was the more effective debater because he played more fast and loose with his positions.

Obama seemed to lack enthusiasm and energy in comparison and seemed wonky.

That is not being a troll either.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:46 PM

26. Obama stood at the plate and watched three strikes go by

I simply don't understand how he could let lie after lie go by unchallanged

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Response to LondonReign2 (Reply #26)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:49 PM

37. Hoping to hear from H20man for his rope-a-dope commentary. nm

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Response to nc4bo (Reply #37)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:24 PM

98. Romney suddenly LOVES teachers too

All Obama had to do was bring up Romney's campaign statement that said EXACTLY the opposite -- Mittens mocked Obama's plans to hire more teachers, firefighetrs, and police saying "the message from Wisconsin" was that people wanted less of public workers.

Alas, one of many, many opportunites Obama refused to counter.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:46 PM

27. I was surprised. I do think Jim Lehrer lost control of the whole debate. n/t

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:46 PM

28. In this case, you could probably tell the trolls if they say Obama won....

It is good that you spoke up...

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:46 PM

29. I am not a troll either and

I disagree with you.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:46 PM

31. I sadly have to agree :/ nt

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:47 PM

32. I'm no troll, and quite frankly, scared to death about how this debate may tip things

in MY state, where every single fucking vote is going to count (Iowa).

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:47 PM

33. It was the same in all past debates

I don't remember a debate when one candidate "crushed" another. Yeah, Obama didn't go for the jugular, but he didn't fall on his ass. Remember the Bush/Kerry debates? Everyone thought Kerry was going to crush dubya, but besides the "internets" thingie, it was quite forgettable. or how about when we thought Biden was going to crush Palin, he played it nice and that was that.

I don't honestly think Obama looked bad.

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Response to johnnie (Reply #33)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:58 PM

125. Kerry gained several points in all the polls after the first debate

- and those points were never lost. Before that debate, largely because the media condoned a character assassination of both Kerry and his wife and PRAISED the Republican hatefest ,rather than disapproving as they did in the arguably less hateful 1992 convention, Bush was about 8 or 9 points ahead. If not for the debates, it would have been a Bush landslide.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:47 PM

35. "when lies don't get called out"

Exactly.

If I were on that stage, I'd say "I got this one, Barack"

But sadly, screaming at the radio had no effect.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:48 PM

36. I am not a troll, and for the first time... I'm worried.

On a normal day, the President talks circles around Mittens. Tonight, when it counted... Not so much.

If this is what the rest of the debates are like... I'm more than concerned.

I can't afford a Romney Presidency, and I don't know anyone who can.

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Response to LibraLiz1973 (Reply #36)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:52 PM

46. No reason to be worried. But Obama wasted a few good opportunities.

With Romney stepping all over Lehrer, President Obama had a choice of being more forceful or laying low, somewhat like Lehrer. While Romney did come off as a dick, and still out of touch, the tactic of being non-confrontational didn't really help Obama.

PB

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Response to LibraLiz1973 (Reply #36)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:21 PM

95. I won't sleep well tonight. President Obama sucked. Fact checkers will save President Obama.

But President Obama can't fucking let Romney lie like a bastard in any of the two remaining debates. I hope Joe has a good debate next week, we need it now.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:49 PM

38. I am not a troll

You said it. The next one will be better. My president has a history of being a quick study. And I think he will recover, and triumph, and be re-elected.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:49 PM

39. I saw a motor mouth with anger issues talk over the moderator and the other debater.

At one point he took his handkerchief and wiped the sweat from his upper lip.

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Response to Lars39 (Reply #39)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:52 PM

45. I found that encouraging. When Mitt was getting mad, very encouraging.

Guess I was looking for blood and guts.......not that POTUS is a b&g guy, it's just that Mitt was open for a few, really easy b&g punches.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:50 PM

41. Me, either. Hate to think we have to repeat the "shut up" days of 2007.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:51 PM

43. Agreed.

The concern troll call is getting pretty fucking old. Being here is not fun nor is it informative anymore. Discussion is shut down as quickly as it starts. Sad to say but it is really fucking old.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:52 PM

47. some people warned him not to appear like the "angry black man"

and he complied.

It is time that he is showing how angry he is ...

fuck this

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:53 PM

49. Du rec. Nt

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:54 PM

51. Protesting too much?

This is the second time you've pointed that out. And that's just to my observation.



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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:54 PM

52. I also am not a troll

And I don't know how you face down a bald faced liar.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:54 PM

53. Sorry to say, it's what I expected

And that's the way it is...same as it ever was...etc.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:55 PM

54. He lost

 

It went bad for him.

Obama better regroup or it's going to be over.

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Response to former-republican (Reply #54)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:59 PM

69. I don't think he lost, I felt he was way to passive especially in the face of those incredible lies.

With Mitt coming off like a bully turd, talking over the mod and O, sneering that stupid grin, oh did I mention lie like a snake?

I was looking forward to knock outs but got slaps.

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Response to nc4bo (Reply #69)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:19 PM

94. He was presidential but

 

that won't work when you're debating a liar.
You have to get in his face and call him out.

he didn't at all

It drove me nuts......

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:55 PM

55. Not a troll here either - I absolutely hated this debate.

Lehrer was worse than awful. Romney was a non-stop unhinged lying asshole.

The president is - well, the president. his job is to be presidential - and I have to trust that he knows what he is doing. I am extremely partisan - I always want to take the gloves off. (I also could never hold public office because of too much emotion).

Will lots of people see that Romney "won"? Sure. But I won't listen to the MSM, who need this to be close. I don't think Obama lost any supporters. It remains to be seen of Romney wins or loses any.

But it was a stark contrast between styles and approach, truth and lies - and all we can do is to hope that others, those who vote, will be able to make that distinction.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:56 PM

58. nor am I

This 'debate' was a disaster. The President better kick this clown in the nuts next time.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:57 PM

60. Well, I AM a troll

Just ask any third wayer.

I think Obama got the job done. He's got a solid lead, and failed to fuck up so he'll retain the lead.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:57 PM

61. I'm not a troll...

I'm sad and teary eyed. I'm so disappointed. I don't know where he was but it wasn't at the debate. He needs to call out the lies and not be pushed around--He's going to lose his nice lead now.

He has to be more prepared for the next ones.

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Response to one_voice (Reply #61)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:27 PM

99. Obama needs to get rid of Kerry and have Emmanuel or Israel prep him for the next debate.

President Obama was not sharp at all. I dropped into a blog, the righties were slobbering with insults about not having a teleprompter. I expected a better debate performance from the President tonight, I didn't get that.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:57 PM

62. Romney had no specifics. He was still playing the "trust me" card. I don't think he won.

I think Americans are smart enough to spot the bullshitter. The Mittshitter.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:58 PM

63. Romney was the energizer bunny on CRACK!

 

Meanwhile Obama was on NyQuil!

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:58 PM

64. Personally I saw a man who gave serious responses to serious issues. So guess I missed

the possibilities of trashing Rmoney at the expense of seniors, school kids and the abundance of other citizens who depend on a functioning government in place of a pipe dream built for the wealthy.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:58 PM

65. "I am not an animal!"

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:58 PM

66. Oh Jebus, Will Pitt. Stop this bullshit.

Really?

"I am not a troll".

Duh.

But a lot of people follow you.

So how about stepping back from the drama train and taking a good look at what's likely to flow over more than the next hour and the cable TeeVee, huh?

In context, this is going to work against Romney.

Do you really think Obama is this lame?

No, you can't possibly, and if you do, well, you seem pretty concerned tonight.

I wish you'd knock it off, too many people look up to you.

Get some sleep.

See ya 'round.

NYC_SKP....

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #66)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 01:57 PM

184. That is one of the cutest dogs I have ever seen.

Almost as cute as my dog.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 10:59 PM

68. Did you look at the debate or just listen? Romney smirked the whole way through.

We need a button with his face and a caption "Would you buy a failed Bush economic policy from this man?"

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:00 PM

70. Obama laid back tonight

 

That's the Obama I know. To play it safe than be sorry. No drama Obama.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:00 PM

71. Romney came across as a smirking, condescending asshole. Obama looked like a President.

 

Say what you want about the content, undecided voters weren't looking for that anyway. They were looking for someone they could like and see as the President. Just saying.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:01 PM

72. And Karl Rove is going to be arrested again, I guess.

What you are saying is nonsense. Obama did good. He was presidential. Romney literally looked afraid and sweaty the entire debate. Expecting Obama to go after Bain and so forth in the first debate? It's just silly. Romney was whiny and small the entire debate. Obama smiled and was cool. Obama had the facts. Romney just twisted himself into a pretzel.

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Response to gulliver (Reply #72)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 01:46 AM

154. +1. Only thing is, a nation used to listening to blowhards, seems to want more. Some have fallen for

The false strength put forth by bullies and blowhards and really don't realize what quiet strength that runs the distance is. They see the drama on teevee where people curse and abuse and swagger, and think that's manly. It's not, it's rooster and big bad wolfe drama. It doesn't work in this world anymore, it's cheap thrills.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:01 PM

73. No, you're not.

And certain DUers need to step the fuck off.

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Response to Codeine (Reply #73)


Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:03 PM

76. Very uninspiring.

 

Obama acted like he was at a function that bored him.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:03 PM

77. word

 

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:04 PM

79. I am not a troll.

It was disappointing. Lehrer was horrible, but Obama should have done better. Perhaps our President should hide an etch a sketch under his coat, and just rattle it when Romney lies. Guess that wouldn't be allowed, as that would be too much like allowing one man to run the show. Hope he is not depressed over this. We can and will overcome, and so shall he.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:06 PM

80. I don't have to tell you what I am... I was right...

Someone had asked and I predicted a Rmoney win the initial debate, and he stood out as having had his delivery (it's a whole bunch of that).

Because Obama had the opportunity to point out by question, just who the hell Romney must think is part of the middle class, or how the math does not add up, and he DID NOT, this will be the turning point in the way he debates the next round.

This was a night of recognition, no more moping... and while the president continues to work to get the country out of the rut trickle down economics put us in, while Romney lies and lies... keep your powder dry, ya'll.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:07 PM

81. Sadly, I agree with you. President Obama performed poorly. He was poorly prepared.

Obama needs to dump Kerry and get someone like Rahm Emanuel or Steve Israel to practice debate against.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:08 PM

82. Me neither. I agree with you.

Romney is the clear winner.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:10 PM

84. I am not a troll. I think Obama had romney rattled within the first couple of minutes.

I didn't see any hard body shots coming from Mr. Obama but I didn't expect to see any tonight. I saw the republican candidate pull his presidential plans out of his ass a couple of times. I think Mr. Obama did fine in gently pushing back his bullshit.

Mr. Obama has a very inclusive message and plans that resonates well with the general public. His opponent has to not only practice zingers ( I counted at least 2 obviously prepared ones), but also try to demonstrated empathetic and personable behavior.

Mr. Lerher is nothing but a tool, a well dressed and well paid tool. That's why he's a successful news reader.

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Response to mulsh (Reply #84)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:30 PM

100. I didn't see that. The President missed many opportunities to bury Romney. nt

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:10 PM

85. Agreed. Obama's performance was lackluster, but...

it's also far from being a terrible blow to Obama's campaign. Plus, there will be plenty of grist from Romney's lying and attempts to appeal to both sides of issues that Obama can use in later debates. It's not over yet. I'm sure Obama and his team will look critically at the mistakes from tonight and learn from them.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)


Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:13 PM

90. Hi William

I think Obama held his own for the first round and he'll be better for the next and then he will close the deal for his re-election.


Wow, 11 years my friend, you keep up the good fight.


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Response to Crewleader (Reply #90)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 11:58 AM

176. Hi, just Hi, Crew!

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Response to Raven (Reply #176)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 10:56 PM

195. Hi Back Raven!

(((Hugs To You)))

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:17 PM

93. I am not a rick roll

red tie blue tie, coke pepsi, mcdonalds burger king.

duopolies suck

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:22 PM

96. Sadly, I agree

This was not a good night for the president, and yes, the moderator sucked - big time. As soon as the debate was over, our phones and texts lit up with friends who are stunned and amazed that our president, who has proven to be such a terrific speaker, was so off the mark tonight. I want to say that it will get better in the next debate, but frankly, I'm worried. Obama should have gone on the attack, been assertive and aggressive, but he let too much roll by him. This was ugly, and not at all what I expected.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:32 PM

101. Yup. Where's the 47% remarks? He needed to hammer it home HARD! nt

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:34 PM

102. Same, and I'm tired of the troll accusations

Any objective person could tell who was more prepared for that debate. It was not the president.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:34 PM

103. I thought it was a draw till I came here

No big hits for either debater, and yes there were lies to be called out but when each round goes 5 minutes there's a lot to unpack in each pass.

Obama came across as the exact same person I've watched for the last 5 years.
Calm.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:35 PM

105. I was expecting a rout and didn't get it.

General observations:

Lehrer sucked. He let Romney bully him. His selection of topics included role of government, regulation, and bipartisanship- which resulted in a predictable torrent of platitudes.

Romney's worst points were bullying old man Lehrer and his position on Medicare. He actually amended his campaign rhetoric (Ryan's vouchers for under 55) to those who are "currently near 60." This was a huge gaffe if anyone was paying attention.

Romney was generally weak on health care. He said that under his plan, higher earners would get a lower benefit. Actually, I believe he's talking about means-testing, a "bipartisan" idea that requires the rich to pay a higher premium, not receive reduced benefits. He tried to have it both ways on Romneycare in Massachusetts and his conclusion that the Massachusetts plan was a "state by state" model sounded nonsensical.

While Romney loses the health care debate on substance, Obama didn't do enough to sharpen the contrast. He mentioned the lower administrative costs of Medicare once, made one reference to insurance companies need for the added expense of profit, and made no reference to marketing costs. He did point out the hazard of adverse selection, which was good. He did not dwell on the medical loss ratio provision of PPACA and garbled his explanation the single time he mentioned it.

My biggest disappointment with Obama was that he let Romney smack him over the head with the "$90 billion green energy subsidy" without returning fire. I was not familiar with the "issue" so I looked it up. Link here: http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/08/21/romneys-attack-on-clean-energy-true-with-an-asterisk/
from the article:

The White House breaks down the $90 billion om green energy projects in the stimulus bill like this:

$29 billion for energy efficiency, including $5 billion for improvements in the homes and apartments of low-income households

$21 billion for renewable electricity generation, including wind turbines and solar panels

$10 billion for grid modernization, including millions of “smart meters” that read themselves, eliminating the need for meter readers

$6 billion to help establish factories to make batteries for electric cars and other components of advanced vehicles

$18 billion for fast trains

$3 billion for research and development into capturing and sequestering carbon dioxide

$3 billion for job training and scientific advances in green energy

about $2 billion to help build wind turbines, solar panels and similar “green” products


There's a lot that can be defended in there, but the President didn't bother. Also, some of the spending was on programs that were passed under Bush but not funded.

All in all, not the President's best day. The media gets to crow over their much-desired horse race.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:37 PM

108. The very first opportunity...

Lehrer asked the President what he thought about "trickle-down" and the President passed up the opportunity to respond to "trickle-down" and went off in another direction.

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Response to kentuck (Reply #108)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:53 PM

120. That was a Romney zinger line. "Trickle-down GOVERNMENT."

Trickle-down economics would have been a softball, but that wasn't the question.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:40 PM

112. What the hell is his fucking problem?

I was out with old friends.

I had to watch the debate with no sound. Obama looked like a fucking flatline.

I am so pissed off at him right now it's ridiculous.

Bring up a GD etch a sketch.

Was it a fucking surprise that Mitt Romney was going to make up every position of his at the debate?

Come prepared with "that is not what he has said for 12 months, please go to Barackobama.com and see that this guy has no idea what he stands for."

How is that fucking difficult? You could give me a fucking frontal lobotomy and I'd be able to come up with that.

I'm tired of being asked for money and I'm tired of being asked to fight for a guy who steps on his dick when the throat is there to be cut.

Ridiculous.

They've lucked out with legendarily bad opposition and apparently every last one of them has bought their own bullshit.

Morons.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:44 PM

114. But, you're not a fighter either though, Will. The karma is with President Obama.

And letting Romney tell lies, and then gloat and leer at him for 90 minutes tonight is worth its weight in gold.

"When your opponent believes he is stronger, let him attack first, so that he will expose his weakness sooner."

Classic Sun Tzu strategy, the way of the Taoist.
President Obama is not your average President; he studied Eastern philosophy and understands the advantage of looking weak when he has the upper hand.

I know it was not the knockdown, haymaker punch type of fight you'd prefer to watch, but believe me, President Obama knows the way of the empty fist.

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Response to Major Hogwash (Reply #114)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:49 PM

118. sorry, posted in the wrong place.

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Response to Major Hogwash (Reply #114)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 12:11 AM

134. Shit. I hope you're correct. Feeling pretty glum at the moment.

I was afraid to watch the debates. FUCK. All we're gonna hear tomorrow is how wrongney's back in the game. I wanted him PUT AWAY tonight. I hope you're correct Major Hogwash.

I have read Sun Tsu and think it makes a lot of sense. I hope it plays out here, too. wrongney and the rest of the GOP need to have the snot beaten out of them.

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Response to Major Hogwash (Reply #114)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 09:03 AM

167. I watched the debate with my friend who studies Tai Chi Ch'uan.

While I was frustrated with the President's performance, my friend had a far different take. He also mentioned Sun Tzu and noted that the President had quite a relaxed posture vs Romney's rigid posture. He said that his impression was this was Obama's fact finding mission - he allowed Romney to reveal his debate style and strategy.

While the President was low key and measured, Romney was both smug and at times outright furious. The President was calm and didn't get knocked off his game by Romney's lies, hyper excitability and smug over confident grimace. While the President didn't attack Romney outright, Romney still managed to get angry and make some damaging slip ups in his own right - slip ups that will damage him today when fact checkers and surrogates swoop in.

We all knew unless Romney set something on fire or trashed the set, the media would call it for Romney, so at least the President didn't provide any future mud for Romney to sling. What we have is Romney's tactics and the knowledge that even when the President is low key, Romney can't control his seething fury. This will be Romney's best performance because he has no other tricks up his sleeve. The President knows how to get under his skin - which clearly doesn't take much to do. This personal knowledge is important and if the President is the "chess master" he'll use this knowledge to destroy Romney in the next debate.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:44 PM

115. How fucking complicated was this?

I thought it went without saying.

Etch a sketch and every time the guy makes up one of his positions, call him a fucking fabulist and tell everyone you have a website set up (hint: barackobama.com) where you can compare what he said six days ago with what he said tonight.

I'm not a fucking genius.

I just have a grasp of logic.

How can this be fucking complicated?

Asshole. Now we have to work our asses off to drag him across a finish line. This could have been a done deal tonight. Fucking ridiculous.

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Response to jsmirman (Reply #115)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:49 PM

117. " This could have been a done deal tonight." Bingo!!

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Response to jillan (Reply #117)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:54 PM

122. Doyou also think the President is an asshole

As jsmrirman posted?

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Response to jsmirman (Reply #115)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:53 PM

121. I cannot believe you just called Obama an asshole

Asshole. Now we have to work our asses off to drag him across a finish line. This could have been a done deal tonight. Fucking ridiculous.


Just

You called President Obama an asshole.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #121)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 12:09 AM

132. Yeah?

How much have you given?

What do you actually do? Ever?

You know what's an asshole move? Asking us to fight for you, asking us to bleed for you, and not teeing up somebody whose head I could have kicked off after a frontal lobotomy.

Both Obama and I have been trained at premier law schools.

You know what I learned? How do pin and opponent down and freaking practice some lepidoptery.

Is the strategy I laid out all that complicated?

SIX DAYS AGO YOU SAID THIS - NOW YOU SAY THIS - DO YOU BELIEVE IN ANYTHING

Not freaking complicated.

Stop asking me for money every single minute of the day if you're not going to put that moron to death when it's time to fucking die. Bullshit.

The campaign folks act like they're fucking geniuses. They're not.

They've benefited from two legendarily awful campaigns running against them.

Pathetic.

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Response to jsmirman (Reply #132)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 12:15 AM

137. So I guess you DO think Obama is an asshole

And, I'm not Obama, so it's quite weird to have you address me as such.

:Wtf:

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #137)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 12:21 AM

141. Ah, so you never actually do anything

I figured.

What the hell have you ever done to push the dial?

Answer me that.

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Response to jsmirman (Reply #141)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 12:27 AM

143. YAhhhh! Ya Short sighted...

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Response to jsmirman (Reply #115)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 03:00 AM

156. ^^^ This ^^^

In minute 77 of the debate, Mr. Romney donned a big, sad hound-dog face and rolled off a litany of economic woes currently being endured by the American people. Here is the big chance, I thought as I watched, for Mr. Obama to put the bricks to his opponent in undeniable fashion. Here is the moment to repeat everything Romney said about high unemployment, more people on food stamps and all the rest of that sad, accurate assessment of modern American life...and then remind the country of the Republican Party's catastrophic record during the 21st century, remind everyone that Romney is a Republican, and say, "You built that."

Talk about a zinger.

But of course it didn't happen. Mr. Romney was allowed to go on and on about the economic problems America is dealing with without ever once having to recognize and answer for the fact that it was the policies of his own party - indeed, the policies he still espouses - that caused this whole debacle to begin with...because Mr. Obama failed to hold all that against him. It isn't as if Mr. Obama doesn't know these things. He does. We all do; it's axiomatic at this point. He just failed to call the guilty parties to account, on national television, in front of 60 million Americans, at the moment when doing so would have, quite simply, sealed the deal.

===

...from my article about tonight.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Reply #156)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 03:22 AM

157. Thank you

it just kills me, and yes, some people are upset about my vehemence tonight, but dammit, free tv time to drill the other guy and make it stick.

If it were really as simple as many here would like us to believe just put a policy paper on your podium and don't show up.

It's a debate, for God's sake.

Romney has a ton to answer for, from "let Detroit go bankrupt" to "I like firing people" to "47% of America can't be bothered to even try." All things that are pretty fucking damning when people are trying as hard as they can to keep breathing as they bob above the water.

The Republican party has just as much to answer for, from crushing the economy with debt, creating the wars that Obama had to pay for until he could respectively draw them down, and adding to debt with a bailout that their fuckwadery made so necessary. They have more to answer for in the failed economic policies they have pursued for all recent memory that have consistently been less successful than Democratic efforts to expand the breadth of the tax base and increase consumer spending power. They have even more to answer for in pursuing a batshit crazy domestic agenda that favored invading women's vaginas over attempting to create a single job, and Romney has signed onto that domestic agenda hook line and sinker over the last year.

Holy shit, I was hammered three hours ago, and I just came up with the above off the top of my head.

I've never faced the pressure of a Presidential debate, but I swear I could come up with that stuff even if I'd been roofied with quaaludes.

I'm pretty sure I'm still frustrated, and don't get the waiting for another debate, because, you know, this was like, the debate on domestic issues and the economy. Fuck.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Reply #156)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 09:15 AM

169. Then you also think President Obama is an asshole?

Since that is what that poster has called Obama.

I am very shocked by that, Will.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:56 PM

123. Watching Romney get away with lie after lie without being called out was difficult.

It was worse to see him steamroll over the moderator and the president in order to get the first word and the last word nearly every time.

As you said it seemed like Romney wanted it more. He was fighting and punching and voters don't punish you for that kind of behavior in the absence of any objection.

They reward you.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:57 PM

124. Yup.

gotta agree.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:58 PM

126. I am not a troll. Nor am I nonpartisan. The president already had my vote. You?

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:58 PM

127. William, I usually agree with you.

Not this time. Obama did not deliver a spectacular performance. The truth is, he didn't have to. We are still digesting the points taken by each party, and in the end it doesn't bode well for Romney.

We may expect a small bounce, but this did not change the game.

Oh, and I am not a troll.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:59 PM

128. I am not a troll

 

but I was disappointed in Pres. Obama's performance. There are more debates, use this as a learning experience and kick his butt in the next debate.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 12:06 AM

129. Just a long game of chess, two more debates...

Romney was too aggressive. He was impolite and interruptive with that typical, white, rich, self deserving flair. He won no new votes which will change the outcome of the election.

While we may want Obama to pervade and kick the shit out of the bully this ain't what it's about. It's about the long haul. We will win the presidency. We will the popular vote.

We will the senate.

But will we win the house? That my dearest Mr. Pitt is the question, that is long game at hand here . This is the challenge.

That will happen in the last three weeks if it is to be at all.


My best,

...

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 12:07 AM

130. Dude, it's eight-dimensional chess.

You just can't see as many moves in advance.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 12:08 AM

131. Disappointing indeed

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 12:13 AM

136. I'm okay with tonight

Obama is a slow burner. He always has been. He lets his opponents run circles, gather rope and work themselves into a tizzy, then he bats them down like a lion does a does a fly.

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Response to blogslut (Reply #136)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 12:17 AM

139. A friend of mine had an old e scow named that. LOL

Slowburner.

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Response to deaniac21 (Reply #140)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 12:27 AM

142. Ha!

Mind you, I mixed the hell out of those metaphors but a literal retort? I am amazed.

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Response to blogslut (Reply #142)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 10:22 AM

173. Someone has to be the comedian.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 12:28 AM

144. Well I'll be a fucking troll.

 

I didn't watch the debate or the pundits on the news shows. I came here to peruse the many positive postings from DUers who did watch it.

Instead all I'm reading about is how badly Obama did tonight and that Mitt Fuckin Romney is going to be the next President because of a lousy debate performance.

Which tells me that I should have known better than to believe all the positive activity going on the last 2 months and longer. The world still sucks as bad as it ever has. The crooks and the rich cats always win and everybody else gets fleeced. Same as always. What a fucked up world this is.

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Response to Jack Sprat (Reply #144)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:35 AM

160. One debate is not enough to swing everything all the way. Fret not. Obama plays the long game to win

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Response to Jack Sprat (Reply #144)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 10:00 AM

172. Yah well, thats what ive been saying.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 12:44 AM

146. it was amazing

I got home about 9 pm central and those debates were on almost every channel - ABC, CBS, NBC, PBS. It was like I had to click and click and click until I finally got to reruns of "Leverage". I knew I did not want to watch the debates.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 01:01 AM

147. I am not a troll and I was disappointed in Obama too.

I think Obama did better than Romney. Yet I walked away from this debate believing that Obama had a ton of important ammo he could have used, but didn't really take any shots.


I also I cringed when Obama said he would work just as hard for us in his next term, as he did in this term. Ah Mr. President look around this country is still in the toilet, you need to work a lot harder if you get a next term.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 01:24 AM

148. Well, you could be part of a "sleeper troll" cell

Waiting eleven years for just this opportunity...

In any event, I agree completely with your points.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 01:31 AM

149. I rarely post here

But I am a long time stalker. And WilliamPitt, I mostly agree with your posts. Not tonight. And I did a very untypical (for me) thing. I wrote an OP.
I am sure you can find it.
Because I think the debate tonight was awesome.
I think it was what the democratic party needed.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 01:32 AM

150. If you have to say you aren't a troll..........












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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 01:42 AM

152. Yep! BOOOOOOOOORIIIIIING.

Obama's advisors had better come up with a more aggressive debate strategy in the next 2 weeks!

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Response to alp227 (Reply #152)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 12:20 PM

180. Well hold on ...

Give Vice President Biden a chance next week.





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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 01:43 AM

153. yes again...nt

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 02:28 AM

155. This isn't a man who draws blood

in what amounts to a collection of TV soundbytes. It's not his style.

But his opponent will continue to be eviscerated - slowly and painfully - in the Obama camp's ads over the next few days/weeks.

And those ads will not be interrupted by his opponent, they will not be cut short by a moderator, they will not be off-the-cuff, but carefully planned for maximum effect.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 03:25 AM

158. Nope...you are not a troll, but you can be wrong at times!

.....
this is one of those times.

Sorry.

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Response to FrenchieCat (Reply #158)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 12:16 PM

179. ^^^^This

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 04:33 AM

159. Agreed.

I've been feeling very confident, and this threw me for a loop...I don't know

what happened, but it was not a good night for the prez.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 07:26 AM

162. The president didn't call out a single lie by Willard, then

let Willard call HIM a liar at the end - no retaliation.

Disaster. there were so many softballs that were lobbed at him, and he refused to take a big cut at them.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 07:38 AM

164. I sadly agree.

Romney reminded me of a caffeinated chihuahua -- a LYING caffeinated chihuahua - but he appeared that he wanted this much more than O.

I watched the debate with 2 people who are nowhere nearly as informed on the candidate's positions as I and the thing that struck me was that they did not have the factual information needed to know when a lie was being peddled. THAT IS DANGEROUS -- and that O allowed the many lies to stand without cool-headed but strong push back is criminal.

O appeared to not even be in his body -- he was saying words but there felt like there was nothing behind them -- no passion, no salesmanship. He's not HUNGRY and it shows.

Al Gore came back strong from a disastrous first debate -- I am hoping O's team can light a fire under his ass. America cannot afford Mitt Romney and O better realize damned quick he is the only thing standing between us and disaster.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 08:55 AM

165. let's hope for a good jobs report tomorrow

And there are still two more debates.

So it's not over.







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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 09:03 AM

166. How can one debate a pathological liar?

I applaud the President for just keeping his cool, why get into pissing match with the idiot. As the lies become apparent Romney will be called out!

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Response to watercolors (Reply #166)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 01:01 PM

181. just one point

"as the lies become apparent Romney will be called out"

Yeah, but it won't be seen by 60 million people.

Last night was the time to call him out.

Let's just hope the next two debates -- with millions watching -- this won't happen again.




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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 09:11 AM

168. I'm also not a troll.

I also agree with all of your points.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 09:16 AM

170. I am not a troll

I didn't watch the debates because I had to work and will probably skip watching them now.

I did eat a McDonald's cheeseburger for dinner and farted a lot.

Oh, and I still support Barack Obama!

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 11:56 AM

175. It wasn't Obama's usual best

but I don't think it was a disaster or as bad as some think.

It could've been better but I don't think it was awful.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 12:13 PM

177. Your concern is duly noted.

Obama, however, is playing the long game. When your opponent is busy destroying themselves, you do not rush in to stop them.

Rmoney's pre-debate expectations were so low that he was going to be crowned the winner as long as he didn't call the President 'Boy' or 'Darkie'...

Obama's pre-debate expectations were so high that if Rmoney wasn't bleeding profusely from every orifice he lost...

Instead the President let his opponent deny his own existing plans for the economy, healthcare and social security, threw the right-wing knuckle-draggers he cannot win without straight under the bus with his support for the middle class and no tax cuts pledge, and appeared to all and sundry like an out-of-control coke-fiend..

Obama let Rmoney be Rmoney, a rich, self-entitled prick that likes to talk over people and is willing to say ANYTHING if he thinks it will get people to vote for him.

I think the next debates are going to be much more animated from the President as his pre-debate expectations will be LOWER and Rmoney will have to try and maintain his "advantage"....


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Response to truebrit71 (Reply #177)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 02:00 PM

185. "The long game"

With five Tuesdays left.

Brilliant.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Reply #185)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 03:36 PM

186. In the context of the number of debates....Yes..it is brilliant...

...the last impression is always the one that lasts longest...if Obama truly is the ninth-level ninja mind-chess master we have come to know, the last impression that these "undecided" voters will have, will be of an authoritative, in-command, no-nonsense President Obama schooling Mittens about how 'Presidenting' really works on Foreign Policy...

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Response to truebrit71 (Reply #186)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 03:51 PM

187. Debate #1: 60 million viewers

All the other debates combined: maybe half that.

But yeah, no, totally, laying back in the reeds was the way to go.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Reply #187)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 04:07 PM

188. No, no, you're right Will, pulling the angry black man routine would have been sooooooo much better.

..because, you know, that's not how the pundits would have framed it, right?

Seriously Will, you've been around this stuff long enough to know how it works...all Romney had to do was NOT FUCK UP and he was the winner..remember Sarah Palin "beating" Joe Biden? ANYTHING the President did would have been criticised up one side and down the other...so he did the only sensible thing...let his opponent throw up all over himself on national telly..

The M$M is in the bag for the rich, white, entitled, prick, the people are behind the President..

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Response to truebrit71 (Reply #188)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 04:28 PM

189. Give me a fucking break.

I have been around long enough to know how it works, and 1. The President of the United States of America can call a (1) lie out for what it is without coming off like Wesley Snipes in 'Demolition Man,' and 2. Depending on the after-game to win a very winnable debate is not a strategy, but an escape plan.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Reply #189)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 05:02 PM

190. I am more than willing to give you a break Will..

...but Rmoney was the winner of the debate before it even started as long as he didn't piss all over the stage...

Nothing else would have changed that. Nothing.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 12:16 PM

178. Thank you. I am not a troll and I was disappointed as well

Thank you. It's nice to see so many people willing to stand up and say what they think no matter what the bullies say.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 01:39 PM

183. No, but you ARE wrong.

The media was going to give a "Romney comeback narrative" no matter what. Obama performed in exactly the way he should have; you can't spend all night hammering down each barrage of bullshit, you have to pick your topic. Lehrer wasn't a "train wreck," he simply couldn't shout over Romney; that mess is fully Romney's fault, and it resulted in him being characterized as nervous and pushy.

So. You're not a troll, WilliamPitt. But that doesn't mean you're correct in your analysis, either.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 05:20 PM

191. The 1st step to recovery is admitting you have a problem.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 05:22 PM

192. If you all get a chance to view anything that was shown on the Martin Bashir show on

MSNBC today, I think you will all "feel much better" about last night.

I taped it and I'm watching it again.

I had never watched M Bashir before but I'm taping every msnbc show today.

Pls try to catch parts of it...

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 05:42 PM

193. Okay then.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

Thu Oct 4, 2012, 08:17 PM

194. I didn't watch the debate but I can understand your position

Here's my analysis, albeit without benefit of seeing the debate.

President Obama is the incumbent President. Therefore, it's my impression that the American electorate, in general, wants to see him act "Presidential" (i.e, calm, "in control", logical, not "angry", not flustered, not disgusted, etc).

We can say he should have the right to be human, and respond just like the rest of us, but it's been my impression that the electorate has different expectations of "the leader of the free world".

From what I've read, I don't think President Obama was quite prepared for the level of aggressiveness and tsunami of bullshit Romney spewed. He may have been a tad overwhelmed at it all, and trying to control his understandable revulsion and anger at being lied about so much.

Yes, I think President Obama needs to get in some good "tasteful" jabs about Romney, his record and his tendency to "stretch the truth". Personally, I'd love to say " Mitt, you're full of shit, you know ?", but somehow I don't think that would go down with the public very well.

If President Obama fails to get in ANY good punches in the next two debates, then I'm willing to say he did poorly. I think tonight the President really got the measure of the new manic aggressive Romney and will respond accordingly from now on.

Just my take from reading DU.





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