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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWikiLeaks' Most Terrifying Revelation: Just How Much Our Government Lies to Us
WikiLeaks' Most Terrifying Revelation: Just How Much Our Government Lies to UsWikileaks has shown that our government and military form a 'vast lying machine' that perpetrates mass murder in our name.
January 3, 2011
-- U.S. MURDER OF CIVILIANS:
-- REGULAR COVERUPS OF U.S. CIVILIAN MURDER:
-- U.S. AND A CORRUPT AFGHAN GOVERNMENT ARE ALIENATING AFGHAN CIVILIANS AND LOSING THE WAR:
http://www.alternet.org/story/149393/wikileaks'_most_terrifying_revelation%3A_just_how_much_our_government_lies_to_us
5 more WikiLeaks Revelations Exposing the Rapidly Growing Corporatism Dominating American Diplomacy Abroad
One of WikiLeaks' greatest achievements has been to expose the exorbitant amount of influence that multinational corporations have over Washington's diplomacy.
June 21, 2011
"...From mining companies in Peru to pharmaceutical companies in Ecuador, one WikiLeaks embassy cable after the next illuminates a pattern of US diplomats shilling for corporate interests abroad in the most underhanded and sleazy ways imaginable...."
?7. US officials work as salespeople for Boeing.
8 US diplomats by day Monsanto henchmen by night.
9. Pharmaceuticals + US diplomats = best friends forever.
10. Washington 'hearts' abusive mining companies in Peru.
11. Diplomats as corporate spies
http://www.alternet.org/story/151370/5_wikileaks_revelations_exposing_the_rapidly_growing_corporatism_dominating_american_diplomacy_abroad/
5 WikiLeaks Hits of 2011 That Are Turning the World on Its Head -- And That the Media Are Ignoring
June 7, 2011
Is 2011 capable of exceeding 2010's revelations? And what discoveries in 2011 has WikiLeaks unearthed thus far
1. Arab Spring: The Tunisians were 1st in Arab world to oust a leader in a generation.
2. WikiLeaks released Guantanamo Files..showing an oppressive detention system riddled w/ incoherence & cruelty at every stage.
3. US allies are among the leading funders of international terrorism.
4. World leaders are practically lighting a fire under the Arctic.
5. US would let Haitians starve to protect US corp. interests.
http://www.alternet.org/world/151232/5_wikileaks_hits_of_2011_that_are_turning_the_world_on_its_head_--_and_that_the_media_are_ignoring/
WikiLeaks: Israel Plans Total War on Lebanon, Gaza
The Israeli military is planning out massive bombings of areas full of innocent civilians.
January 3, 2011
http://www.alternet.org/world/149387/wikileaks%3A_israel_plans_total_war_on_lebanon,_gaza
7 Shocking WikiLeaks Revelations
Round 1 of Cablegate, Julian Assange's big reveal.
November 29, 2010 |
1. Weve been secretly bombing Yemen.
2. U.S. uses diplomats as spies. Speaking of Clinton... she ordered diplomats to spy on government officials at the UN, gathering such info as credit card and frequent flyer numbers, computer passwords...and DNA
3. U.S. uses Guantanamo Bay prisoners as bargaining chips.
4. Chinas been hacking our systems since 2002.
5. Afghanistan is corruption Disneyland. OK, no big surprise there, but it is interesting that Ahmad Zia Massoud was caught traveling to the UAE with $52 million in cash. After being detained by the DEA, he "was ultimately allowed to keep [the money
6. Iran might have long-range missiles. Practically the entire Middle East has urged the U.S
7. Putin and Berlusconi's close relationship causes alarm. "Alpha dog" Vladimir Putin and Italian partier/prime-minister Silvio Berlusconi have forged a close relationship, potentially involving shady business deals.
http://www.alternet.org/world/149015/7_shocking_wikileaks_revelations/
About the allegations made against Julian Assange:
There are no rape charges. Julian has invited Sweden to question him in the UK and Sweden refused. He answered allegations once and then Sweden dropped it, and he left Sweden.
Ironically the UK protected one of the world's worst war criminals , Pinochet from extradition, yet won't protect Julian from extradition to a country where there is no bail, trials are secret, and where Julian hasn't even been charged.
2on2u
(1,843 posts)factions get together to do whatever it may be.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)I am not in favor of violent revolution, but think it is inevitable.
goodword
(44 posts)Our leaders feel so safe and so secure in their power and position because they believe the American people would never revolt.
And that's probably true right now. As long as everyone has a full belly, a minimum wage job and can watch Here Comes Honey Boo Boo they don't have the initiative to get up off the couch and take a stand against anything. But like you, I think it's coming. And it's coming sooner than some may think.
If the next year or two come to pass as predicted by global economists, we're in for a very difficult time. A global depression has been predicted with world-wide food shortages, lack of jobs, and rising inflation. Get enough hungry and angry people together and something's going explode.
"Every generation needs a new revolution. Thomas Jefferson
johnlucas
(1,250 posts)Revolution sounds good but think about riots in history.
People tend to tear up what's closest to them. They tear up their own neighborhoods before they do anything else.
They don't have focused anger. It's just wild rage.
The Revolution that COULD work would be an international strike...but good luck getting everybody on the same page.
It's simple. The only reason these jackasses get away with all the dirt they do is because collectively we are fragmented & self-destructive to our own cause.
Violent revolutions tend to change out one set of jackasses for a new set of jackasses.
It's probably inevitable but that doesn't mean things will improve.
John Lucas
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Also, many poor people will be killed.
formercia
(18,479 posts)After that Goat-Fuck in Honduras and all of the other revelations of Hillary's duplicity and malfeasance, it angers me that anyone would even give her the time of Day.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)If you are going to attack her,
you should also attack about 1/2 of today's "New Democrat" Party,
including Bill Clinton and our current President.
TPTB (bi-partisan) don't believe that YOU have a right to know
what OUR government
is doing with OUR money
in OUR name.
You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their rhetoric, promises, or excuses.
[font size=5 color=green]Solidarity99![/font][font size=2 color=green]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/center]
1monster
(11,012 posts)human rights / First Amendment / privacy / Whitles Blower policies. The stance his administration takes on whistle blowers who have done great services for this country by exposing corruption and wrong doing makes me despair, because the Republicans are infinitely worse.
hootinholler
(26,449 posts)The more things change...
rwsanders
(2,594 posts)Days of Destruction, Days of Revolt by Chris Hedges and Joe Sacco
JFK and the Unspeakable
Family of Secrets
I'd love to hear an opinion from anyone that has read them all.
One other item, I've been trying to find the hidden reason for our entry into Vietnam. Any hints for articles or books?
hootinholler
(26,449 posts)In Der Fishie's journal.
Personally, I believe VN was payola for implementing The Great Society.
War is a Racket is a pretty short read.
KansDem
(28,498 posts)When I was an undergraduate during the early 1970s, I attended a kind of "teach in" about the Vietnam War. The guest was a newly released pilot who had been shot down over North Vietnam and POW. He came to talk about the war and answer questions.
When the subject turned to "why?", he maintained the "didn't want commies taking over Vietnam" line. However, there was a small group of vocal demonstrators who maintained it was because of oil. One of the members even knew the amount of area "owned" by one of the major oil companies.
I was still naive enough to believe it was the "commie scourge" but now believe it was for the financial advantage of major corporations.
In 1962, Halliburton Company, which at the time was a fast-growing oil-well construction and services firm, purchased Brown & Root, by then a renowned road construction company and general contractor. During the Vietnam War, Halliburton was awarded a government contract and took part in building approximately 85 per cent of the infrastructure needed by the Army.
Halliburton Company provides products and services to the petroleum and energy industries to aid in the exploration, development and production of natural resources. Halliburton KBR, which is the company's engineering and construction division, designs, builds and provides additional services to the energy industry and governments.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/industry/halliburton.htm
And, of course, Halliburton is a major player in Iraq
The overcharging discovery involves Kellog, Brown & Root, a wholly-owned subsidiary of Halliburton. In a controversial no-bid contract, KBR was awarded a total of $8 billion to provide laundry, food supply, and build bases for the US military in Iraq. This also includes $1.2 billion to restore production in the southern Iraqi oil fields. It just so happens that Vice-President and major Halliburton stock-holder Cheney was directly involved in the awarding of rebuilding contracts in Iraq! That is not to say that only Halliburton got a share so did major Bush-backer Bechtel, the construction firm, and of course a Texas-based company by the name of Exxon-Mobil.
Of course, this is not the first time US companies, whether they contribute more to the Republican or the Democratic Parties, have cashed in on US foreign policy. In fact, the US government operates several banks and organizations, all tax-funded, to spur on and assist US foreign investment. The foremost of these organizations are the Overseas Private Investment Corporation, the Import-Export Bank of the United States, and last but not least the International Monetary Fund, based in New York City. The OPIC assisted the now defunct Enron Corporation by granting it $2.4 billion in its venture to open a massive natural gas power plant in Nagpal, India, between 1992 and 2000. Halliburton is currently under investigation by French courts over $180 million paid in bribes to Nigerian government officials in its bid to win a gas plant deal along with partners Technip (France,) ENI SpA (Italy,) and Japan Gasoline Corporation.
Imperialist wars have always provided ample business opportunities - and the current war in Iraq is no exception. This is a defining feature of capitalism, specifically capitalism in its era of imperialism and decay. The following quote from a former US Marine general sums it all up: I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Cuba and Haiti a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American Republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested. During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a swell racket. (General Smedley Butler, from a speech in 1933.)
--more--
http://www.socialistappeal.org/usa/halliburton_scandal.html
midnight
(26,624 posts)makes a great deal of sense...
"The looting of the public by companies like Halliburton is clear evidence that there is no longer anything historically progressive in capitalism, it is played out. Instead of developing and revolutionizing production as it did 200 years ago, it now is so feeble that it has to feed off of its own state. "
Hydra
(14,459 posts)It seeks the easiest path to the most gain- in most cases, that means cannibalizing something that's already in place. The innovation and efficiency it creates in how fast and easily it can strip something down for profit. Usually this means companies, but a nearly unlimited source to tap is the gov't and its assets.
This drought is really highlighting how that cannibalization is working. We may all be lucky to survive what come next year.
dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)according to Robert Caro's extremely well researched series of bios on LBJ.
Brown and Root have been heavily involved in politics since the late 50's.
CabCurious
(954 posts)Wednesdays
(17,311 posts)It seems Wikileaks has the goods.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)the effects of these revelations?
Did you know that in their discussions of how to destroy Wikileaks, they concluded that they should try spreading around the talking point 'They haven't told us anything we didn't know already' in order to try to dismiss them and discourage people from reading them?
I'll be happy to provide a link to those discussions if you like. I am sure you do not want to spreading propaganda thought up by an anti-99% intel 'security' corporation.
Clearly you have never read some of these leaks. They rocked the Indian Govt. eg, have been credited by Egyptian and Tunisian revolutionaries with contributing to their determination to rid themselves of their corrupt brutal regimes, exposed Fraud in Iceland's main Bank, making it possible for That country to do what this country has not done, arrest the fraudulent bankers.
They were about to release info on OUR fraudulent bankers when suddenly a sex scandal appeared out of nowhere.
Talking point from Stratfor? 'They haven't told us anything we didn't know already'
midnight
(26,624 posts)be pretty bad if they have to make up this sex crime that they dropped and then revived..
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Much of that material was stolen by Domscheit Berg, former Wikileaks partner of Assange. Wikileaks has stated they were informed that Befg was in contact with the FBI, which Berg denies.
Right after Assange revealed that Wikileaks would be releasing the Bank information, Berg claimed to have 'defected' from Wikileaks, joining in the smear campaign against him.
However, initially he neglected to inform the public of his theft of the material that would have been released by Wikileaks including the promised Bank revelations.
When asked why he had done this, he claimed he had not stolen it and would return it as soon as Wikileaks 'fixed some security problems'. This did not seem logical, Wikileaks strength in attracting whistle blowers was in the fact that not one whistle blower has been exposed by Wikileaks. Manning btw, was exposed by someone else.
The suspicions about Berg were confirmed, as everyone waited for the Bank leaks, when he confessed to having 'destroyed the material'. And with that, the Banks were off the hook as far as those leaks were concerned.
He still denies becoming an informant but cannot explain why he saved the Banks. People can form their own opinions of his motives, but his actions were against everything he says he believes in, protecting whistle blowers at all costs, respecting the risks they take by revealing corruption of governments and corporations. Whoever took the risk of exposing the banks, was betrayed by Berg regardless of whether he was an informant or not.
tama
(9,137 posts)about both Wikileaks and OWS are that they didn't any make difference or achieve anything.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)To not try to fight the obvious impact of Wikileaks, but to diminish its importance by claiming they had not revealed anything of importance.
Easy to transfer it to OWS also which also threatened Wall Street.
I saw it a lot and wondered how anyone in their right mind could make that claim considering the glaring evidence to the contrary.
But then it all became clear in the Stratfor emails. Now when I see it, I just wonder how much Stratfor was paid and by whom, to help spread this talking around.
tama
(9,137 posts)probably don't need further payments at all as they sold their souls to the system long time ago. They take actual pleasure from perceptions and imaginations that power hierarchies are winning and people get defeated, again and again.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Last edited Sun Aug 26, 2012, 03:36 PM - Edit history (1)
when we were working so hard to get rid of Republicans from our government.
We were hoping to see America's image restored after the bloody, criminal years of the Bush administration. We were hoping one of the first steps would be to start investigating and prosecuting the war criminals.
When we were told to 'move on' from those crimes, it was a devastating blow but we still held out hope they would not get away with their crimes as other nations with jurisdiction stepped up and began the process of prosecuting them.
Hopes were dashed again when that prosecution did not go forward. We wondered what happened.
And then we saw the Wikileaks Cables. And they explained everything. The US Government is protecting war criminals and pressuring, smearing, attacking anyone else who attempts to hold them accountable.
People have a right to know what their government is doing in their name. Wikileaks stepped into the empty chasm of news created when Corporations took over our news media, that the American people were depending on for facts. And that is why Assange is under attack no matter how many comments you post to the contrary.
Welcome to DU btw, I did not realize what a recent member you were.
pnwmom
(108,955 posts)This is the real world. European officials are also pushing for Airbus.
Of all the terrible things Wikileaks has apparently uncovered, this one seems pretty low on the list.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)meant to make people look away from all the crimes exposed by Wikileaks.
Excellent OP, thank you.
fascisthunter
(29,381 posts)OnyxCollie
(9,958 posts)Of course, a member of our DU community is obsessed to spam the board and tell us that Julian Assange is a nasty, awful man.
Obama called on the former general chairman of the RNC (and current JP Morgan Executive Committee member) to stop Spain's investigation of US torture crimes.
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/12/25/105786/wikileaks-how-us-tried-to-stop.html
MIAMI It was three months into Barack Obama's presidency, and the administration -- under pressure to do something about alleged abuses in Bush-era interrogation policies -- turned to a Florida senator to deliver a sensitive message to Spain:
Don't indict former President George W. Bush's legal brain trust for alleged torture in the treatment of war on terror detainees, warned Mel Martinez on one of his frequent trips to Madrid. Doing so would chill U.S.-Spanish relations.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/202776?INTCMP=SRCH
6. (C) As reported in SEPTEL, Senator Mel Martinez, accompanied by the Charge d'Affaires, met Acting FM Angel Lossada during a visit to the Spanish MFA on April 15. Martinez and the Charge underscored that the prosecutions would not be understood or accepted in the U.S. and would have an enormous impact on the bilateral relationship. The Senator also asked if the GOS had thoroughly considered the source of the material on which the allegations were based to ensure the charges were not based on misinformation or factually wrong statements. Lossada responded that the GOS recognized all of the complications presented by universal jurisdiction, but that the independence of the judiciary and the process must be respected. The GOS would use all appropriate legal tools in the matter. While it did not have much margin to operate, the GOS would advise Conde Pumpido that the official administration position was that the GOS was "not in accord with the National Court." Lossada reiterated to Martinez that the executive branch of government could not close any judicial investigation and urged that this case not affect the overall relationship, adding that our interests were much broader, and that the universal jurisdiction case should not be viewed as a reflection of the GOS position.
Judd Gregg, Obama's Republican nominee for Commerce secretary, didn't like the investigations either.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/202776?INTCMP=SRCH
4. (C) As reported in REF A, Senator Judd Gregg, accompanied by the Charge d'Affaires, raised the issue with Luis Felipe Fernandez de la Pena, Director General Policy Director for North America and Europe during a visit to the Spanish MFA on April 13. Senator Gregg expressed his concern about the case. Fernandez de la Pena lamented this development, adding that judicial independence notwithstanding, the MFA disagreed with efforts to apply universal jurisdiction in such cases.
Why the aversion? To protect Bushco, of course!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/200177
The fact that this complaint targets former Administration legal officials may reflect a "stepping-stone" strategy designed to pave the way for complaints against even more senior officials.
Eric Holder got the message.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=7410267&page=1
As lawmakers call for hearings and debate brews over forming commissions to examine the Bush administration's policies on harsh interrogation techniques, Attorney General Eric Holder confirmed to a House panel that intelligence officials who relied on legal advice from the Bush-era Justice Department would not be prosecuted.
"Those intelligence community officials who acted reasonably and in good faith and in reliance on Department of Justice opinions are not going to be prosecuted," he told members of a House Appropriations Subcommittee, reaffirming the White House sentiment. "It would not be fair, in my view, to bring such prosecutions."
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/06/cia-exhales-99-out-of-101-torture-cases-dropped/
This is how one of the darkest chapters in U.S. counterterrorism ends: with practically every instance of suspected CIA torture dodging criminal scrutiny. Its one of the greatest gifts the Justice Department could have given the CIA as David Petraeus takes over the agency.
Over two years after Attorney General Eric Holder instructed a special prosecutor, John Durham, to preliminar(ily) review whether CIA interrogators unlawfully tortured detainees in their custody, Holder announced on Thursday afternoon that hell pursue criminal investigations in precisely two out of 101 cases of suspected detainee abuse. Some of them turned out not to have involved CIA officials after all. Both of the cases that move on to a criminal phase involved the death in custody of detainees, Holder said.
But just because theres a further criminal inquiry doesnt necessarily mean there will be any charges brought against CIA officials involved in those deaths. If Holders decision on Thursday doesnt actually end the Justice Departments review of torture in CIA facilities, it brings it awfully close, as outgoing CIA Director Leon Panetta noted.
On this, my last day as Director, I welcome the news that the broader inquiries are behind us, Panetta wrote to the CIA staff on Thursday. We are now finally about to close this chapter of our Agencys history.
Hey kids! See how many violations of the Geneva Convention you can spot!
http://www.hrweb.org/legal/cat.html
Article 1
For the purposes of this Convention, torture means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions.
This article is without prejudice to any international instrument or national legislation which does or may contain provisions of wider application.
Article 2
Each State Party shall take effective legislative, administrative, judicial or other measures to prevent acts of torture in any territory under its jurisdiction.
No exceptional circumstances whatsoever, whether a state of war or a threat or war, internal political instability or any other public emergency, may be invoked as a justification of torture.
An order from a superior officer or a public authority may not be invoked as a justification of torture.
Article 3
No State Party shall expel, return ("refouler" or extradite a person to another State where there are substantial grounds for believing that he would be in danger of being subjected to torture.
For the purpose of determining whether there are such grounds, the competent authorities shall take into account all relevant considerations including, where applicable, the existence in the State concerned of a consistent pattern of gross, flagrant or mass violations of human rights.
Article 4
1. Each State Party shall ensure that all acts of torture are offences under its criminal law. The same shall apply to an attempt to commit torture and to an act by any person which constitutes complicity or participation in torture.
2. Each State Party shall make these offences punishable by appropriate penalties which take into account their grave nature.
Article 5
1. Each State Party shall take such measures as may be necessary to establish its jurisdiction over the offences referred to in article 4 in the following cases:
1. When the offences are committed in any territory under its jurisdiction or on board a ship or aircraft registered in that State;
2. When the alleged offender is a national of that State;
3. When the victim was a national of that State if that State considers it appropriate.
2. Each State Party shall likewise take such measures as may be necessary to establish its jurisdiction over such offences in cases where the alleged offender is present in any territory under its jurisdiction and it does not extradite him pursuant to article 8 to any of the States mentioned in Paragraph 1 of this article.
3. This Convention does not exclude any criminal jurisdiction exercised in accordance with internal law.
Article 6
1. Upon being satisfied, after an examination of information available to it, that the circumstances so warrant, any State Party in whose territory a person alleged to have committed any offence referred to in article 4 is present, shall take him into custody or take other legal measures to ensure his presence. The custody and other legal measures shall be as provided in the law of that State but may be continued only for such time as is necessary to enable any criminal or extradition proceedings to be instituted.
2. Such State shall immediately make a preliminary inquiry into the facts.
3. Any person in custody pursuant to paragraph 1 of this article shall be assisted in communicating immediately with the nearest appropriate representative of the State of which he is a national, or, if he is a stateless person, to the representative of the State where he usually resides.
4. When a State, pursuant to this article, has taken a person into custody, it shall immediately notify the States referred to in article 5, paragraph 1, of the fact that such person is in custody and of the circumstances which warrant his detention. The State which makes the preliminary inquiry contemplated in paragraph 2 of this article shall promptly report its findings to the said State and shall indicate whether it intends to exercise jurisdiction.
Article 7
1. The State Party in territory under whose jurisdiction a person alleged to have committed any offence referred to in article 4 is found, shall in the cases contemplated in article 5, if it does not extradite him, submit the case to its competent authorities for the purpose of prosecution.
2. These authorities shall take their decision in the same manner as in the case of any ordinary offence of a serious nature under the law of that State. In the cases referred to in article 5, paragraph 2, the standards of evidence required for prosecution and conviction shall in no way be less stringent than those which apply in the cases referred to in article 5, paragraph 1.
3. Any person regarding whom proceedings are brought in connection with any of the offences referred to in article 4 shall be guaranteed fair treatment at all stages of the proceedings.
Article 8
1. The offences referred to in article 4 shall be deemed to be included as extraditable offences in any extradition treaty existing between States Parties. States Parties undertake to include such offences as extraditable offences in every extradition treaty to be concluded between them.
2. If a State Party which makes extradition conditional on the existence of a treaty receives a request for extradition from another State Party with which it has no extradition treaty, it may consider this Convention as the legal basis for extradition in respect of such offenses. Extradition shall be subject to the other conditions provided by the law of the requested State.
3. States Parties which do not make extradition conditional on the existence of a treaty shall recognize such offences as extraditable offences between themselves subject to the conditions provided by the law of the requested state.
4. Such offences shall be treated, for the purpose of extradition between States Parties, as if they had been committed not only in the place in which they occurred but also in the territories of the States required to establish their jurisdiction in accordance with article 5, paragraph 1.
Article 9
1. States Parties shall afford one another the greatest measure of assistance in connection with civil proceedings brought in respect of any of the offences referred to in article 4, including the supply of all evidence at their disposal necessary for the proceedings.
2. States Parties shall carry out their obligations under paragraph 1 of this article in conformity with any treaties on mutual judicial assistance that may exist between them.
midnight
(26,624 posts)of making crimes disappear vis calling them "a policy difference"...
treestar
(82,383 posts)And you're trashing Obama very close to the election.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)This isn't about a fucking election, it's about TRUTH. It's about our government sponsoring terrorism throughout the world and strongarming anyone who exposes that vile corruption. If the Obama Administration is exposed as facilitating the same corruption as the Bush Administration then he and his cabinet are every bit as guilty.
This isn't some fucking football game, it's about global dominance and U.S. PRIVATE INDUSTRY (you know, the ones our military work for and that WE pay for) dominating and subjugating BILLIONS of people.
And please don't respond with the idiotic "President Romney" shit. Many of us are way past binary thinking.
They_Live
(3,224 posts)Exactly! This is about a basic morality and common conscience. We should be ending corruption, not proliferating it. I fight for my children's future and what little of mine that is left.
+ 10,000
treestar
(82,383 posts)What left wing third party do you support?
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)held accountable. And the DOJ reduces the murders, torture, rape and destruction of sovereign nations, all done in our name, which we railed against loudly for eight, long, crushingly despairing years, to 'policy differences'.
War Crimes = Policy Differences.
Eddie Haskell
(1,628 posts)Too big to fail = too big to prosecute
The Doctor.
(17,266 posts)Yeah, not happy that the administration moved against Spain's investigation. Should have just distanced itself from the proceedings.
Had anything nice to say about Obama in the past month?
Response to OnyxCollie (Reply #11)
Post removed
treestar
(82,383 posts)I mean, someone's going to notice that.
midnight
(26,624 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)Ash_F
(5,861 posts)How about 8 hours of Cable TV news coverage like the 'New Black Panther Party' received? I went to work one day and my co-worker, told me, out of the blue, 'man I am really worried about that New Black Panther Party, things are really stirring up. There's a race war coming'. I had no idea what he was talking about but apparently it was all over the news for days(don't have a tv).
So I guess after that much exposure, he now knew all about the 'New Black Panther Party'. But somehow, I doubt he knows about the fact that the State Department has been aware that US contractors have been involved in the Afghan child sex trade(both trafficking and rape) for years but has yet to make any moves to prosecute. And I don't think most Americans know either, even though thanks to the leaks there is no dispute as they spell it out clearly from the perspective of US officials themselves. Even though the issue did get a few token articles here and there.
How about you treestar? Were you aware?
kenny blankenship
(15,689 posts)but in fact it was the US military dropping bombs, which eventually came out. It was therefore a "secret" bombing until the Yemeni-US lies and denials were exposed by the United States' own diplomatic cables, published by the journalistic organization Wikileaks.
BBC News: Wikileaks files reveal secret US-Yemen bomb deal
4 December 2010
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-11918037
The unacknowledged bombing became an unacknowledged bombing campaign:
NYTimes : U.S. Is Intensifying a Secret Campaign of Yemen Airstrikes
By MARK MAZZETTI
Published: June 8, 2011
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/09/world/middleeast/09intel.html
A campaign of bombing civilian areas which our government would not own up to, is therefore a "secret" war or secret terror bombing campaign, even though the bloody hand behind the strikes eventually is revealed. Since the government wouldn't acknowledge its actions despite the cover story falling apart, they are "covert" or secret acts of state murder. Until the government acknowledges its acts and/or ceases its denials, some people will not accept the existence of those acts. It can kept from becoming a debatable issue for society, the media and the elected representative government, whatever that may be. As for those who quibble about the use of the term "secret", they would no doubt have quibbled about the "secret" bombing of Laos and Cambodia. The United States bombed Laos and Cambodia for years secretly, beginning in 1965, without acknowledging these acts of war against either state. Such people wouldn't know of these goings on, nor believe you if you tried to tell them, because the government hadn't told them first. In 1969, the intensified bombing campaign ordered by Richard Nixon in Operation Menu and Operation Breakfast would eventually lead to disclosure and widespread acknowledgement of the secret bombing campaign. But meanwhile, B-52 crews in Menu and Breakfast were officially being told that their targets were in S. Vietnam, and then diverted mid-flight to bomb coordinates in Cambodia and Laos, after being sworn to secrecy on each mission by the commanding General. And even though intensive bombing of Cambodia did come to light in 1969, due to a leak to the NY Times, the pre-Nixon extent of the secret bombing campaign against Laos and Cambodia was still kept secret and unacknowledged until the Clinton years. Coincidentally or not, the descent of the Nixon Administration into wiretapping fueled paranoia began over this specific incident - the exposure of the existence of a secret air war against Cambodia and Laos. The first wiretap order issued by Nixon to what would become his "Plumbers" group was directed against Morton Halperin, a NSC aide to Henry Kissinger. The secret war to keep our secret wars quiet culminated in Watergate, an attempt to subvert the legitimacy of a Presidential and Congressional election.
As to the particular authoritarian you were arguing with, you may as well try to convince Goebbels that Hitler was a bad guy. Just shrug it off and move on.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)war should be held accountable?
fascisthunter
(29,381 posts)pnwmom
(108,955 posts)The Swedish justice system is completely different than ours. They don't press charges till near the end of a long investigative process, and they have to have the person under arrest. They can't do that while he's in another country. That's why there are no charges -- yet.
There's much more info at this link:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1203540
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)issues have to do with has been revealed regarding Bush' war crimes that have yet to even be investigated in this country?
Did you, eg, during the Bush years, feel that the US Media was doing a good job of exposing the lies being told to get us into wars?
Do you object to a News Organization providing information, the accuracy of which has never been denied, that confirms the allegations of war crimes against the Bush Administration?
pnwmom
(108,955 posts)Try reading through to the end.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Administration. People are wondering why not a thing has been done about those massive, horrific crimes that took the lives of over one million people, including thousands of US soldiers.
And then they see a Global man hunt for someone, who just happens to have been the publisher of the International News Organization that revealed those facts, who has not been charged with a crime, but who was suddenly involved in a 'sex scandal' right after he stated that Wikileaks had millions of documents on the 'Private Sector' and that 'One major bank was likely to fall' when these documents were released. One month later, coincidentally, the so-far not filed case against him, was filed.
Yet not a single investigation into the orchestrators of the lies that dragged this country into a wrong war which resulted in horrific war crimes, such as torture, rape, murder and brutality against several sovereign nations.
There is something not proportional about the pursuit of this one individual and the lack of pursuit of war criminals.
Why are there no investigations into one of the worst crimes an elected official can commit, to lie a country into war??
pnwmom
(108,955 posts)and in areas unrelated to war crimes. For example, one of the points made is that US officials help persuade other countries to buy Boeing planes. (BFD.)
And then, at the end, the OP misstates the situation that Assange is in.
That is what I was responding to.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)government lies to us. It is a very short list of the major revelations made by Wikileaks and their impact on how people now view their governments.
The hot pursuit of Wikileaks' Editor and Publisher has been noted as a huge coincidence seeing as how it began one month after Assange revealed that Wikileaks was about to make more revelations about some of the big banks, one of which might fall as a result of those leaks. This was in response to a question by the Forbes interviewer. We know now, thanks to Anonymous leaks from HB Gary that directly after that interview, BOA went into action, hiring contractors, HB Gary being of those applying for the job, to help squash, destroy, smear, or whatever it took, Wikileaks and specifically Assange.
Some coincidences when they so benefit wrong doers, do make intelligent people wonder.
Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #41)
Post removed
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)we have lost the respect of the world, diminishing our influence to do any good, here or elsewhere. Wikileaks gave the American people some truths about how our government works which our Corporate owned media fails to do.
Imo, anyone who refuses to acknowledge these facts, needs to ask themselves some serious questions.
Watching the OAS conference last week demonstrated the loss of stature they US has suffered in the world, as it was isolated along with its few allies, from the entire continent of Sough America. It brought into stark light how little the rest of the world trusts us. One main reason is the war crimes the world has witnessed, while we preach morality and condemn selected dictators while supporting others, and refuse to prosecute those horrific crimes.
I am not distracted by Assange allegations. They are so effing minor, true or not, to the crimes that have gone unpunished and unremarked on by the same individuals feigning outrage of a case that has not even been filed in court. If anything the anti-Wikileaks contingency only shines a brighter light on those facts.
And I hope no one is wasting any tax-payer money on these efforts as they are having the exact opposite effect.
GliderGuider
(21,088 posts)That would move the process forward a significant step. Even if they can't take him into custody, they could at least cross the i's and dot the t's, and have the package ready to go when Julian needs to step out of the Embassy to take a leak...
pnwmom
(108,955 posts)until they arrest him, which they can't do on UK soil.
GliderGuider
(21,088 posts)Because frankly this is a question that's been puzzling me since the start. I've never heard Sweden say that - AFAIK they just declined without giving a reason.
pnwmom
(108,955 posts)where I saw it. I'll check The Guardian first, because I've read a fair amount there.
pnwmom
(108,955 posts)Four: The Swedes should interview Assange in London
This is currently the most popular contention of Assanges many vocal supporters. But this too is based on a misunderstanding.
Assange is not wanted merely for questioning.
He is wanted for arrest.
This arrest is for an alleged crime in Sweden as the procedural stage before charging (or indictment). Indeed, to those who complain that Assange has not yet been charged, the answer is simple: he cannot actually be charged until he is arrested.
Much more at link, including UK's appeals court opinion:
http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/david-allen-green/2012/08/legal-myths-about-assange-extradition
GliderGuider
(21,088 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)That is a fact. He was detained in jail for ten days, then released on bail but has been under house arrest for two years while he fought that warrant for his extradition.
So the comment you responded IS the myth. Nothing prevents the Swedish prosecutor from having Assange arrested in Britain, nor did it.
The reasons given for the refusal of the Swedish prosecutors to interview Assange in London have all been debunked many times and even they are no longer trying to make those claims.
The facts are, for some reason the Swedish Prosecutors appear to not want to file their charges. As of now, no charges have been filed. If they were serious, they would have removed the obstacle they say is preventing this, go talk to him, you had two years to do so and then file these charges. Why won't they? The last time they were asked this question, last week on a radio show, the answer from a spokesperson for the Swedish prosecutor was 'I don't know'.
The women's own lawyer, btw, has stated that 'the case is weak'. Which anyone who actually read the available evidence agrees. Dragging this on however, achieves, or did as people are now becoming very skeptical, the goal of silencing him. People can and have made up their own minds as to why this case has not yet been filed.
pnwmom
(108,955 posts)which is why Assange is hiding out in the Embassy. But then they need him brought to Sweden, for the "interview" after which he will be charged.
GliderGuider
(21,088 posts)but they can't take him into custody or return him to Sweden. Does he need to be physically in Sweden to be charged? If so, why?
pnwmom
(108,955 posts)Swedish police don't have authority in the UK, but they're the ones that need to do the interview.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)(European Arrest Warrant, which Sweden did) to have someone they want, arrested. Your claim and apparently the latest moving of the goal posts, was that Sweden had to talk to him in Sweden because they could not arrest him in London. That is false.
Under an EAW the person is arrested by the police of whatever country they are in, and then handed over to the country that issued the EAW. It's very simple.
Iow every excuse that has been made as to why Sweden won't simply file this case after two years of International Theatrics, has been thoroughly debunked.
The real reason for their reluctance to file their case may be because as the women's own attorney said nearly two years ago: 'It is a very weak case'
Btw, their attorney also said, contrary to that other false smear, that Assange had every right to leave Sweden when he did, as he was told he was no longer wanted there.
It's always interesting to go back to the beginning and see how and where the lies began to emerge. Early evidence is always the most important and the closest to the facts.
.
hack89
(39,171 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)DU is fast getting a reputation of being unreliable as a source for fact based information due to the tsunami of false information being posted here.
Sweden issued an EAW. Interpol issued a different alert.
The EAW is not an international warrant. It is confined to members of the EU.
Interpol is an international organization.
The EAW was issued by Sweden itself, not by Interpol. Your claim was that Sweden could not arrest him in London, that was false. They did have him arrested in London, Sweden NOT Interpol.
And as pointed out by so many people, the Interpol alert was a RED alert, which they do not issue even for people like Gadaffi for whom Interpol issued only an orange alert.
Then the pile on from Sweden, with the EAW. You would swear this man was more dangerous to society than say, Pinochet or something.
pnwmom
(108,955 posts)There were two warrants: First Sweden issued its warrant and then Interpol put out its own warrant. It is a RED notice, as opposed to another color notice, because a Red Notice is the only color that equivalent to an arrest warrant. The other colors all pertain to various levels or warnings and requests for information.
If you read the warrant, you'll note that at the top it says:
"Arrest Warrant Issued by International Public Prosecution Office"
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/11/assange-interpol/
The international police organization Interpol has issued a Red Notice for the arrest of WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange, in connection with a sex crime investigation in Sweden.
A Red Notice is kind of international wanted poster seeking the provisional arrest of a fugitive, with an eye towards extradition to the nation that issued the underlying arrest warrant. Interpol transmits the notices to its 188 member countries, including Britain, where Assange is believed to be located. Interpol has no authority to compel a subjects arrest. It issued 5,020 Red Notice last year for a variety of crimes.
A terse extract of Assanges notice appeared on Interpols website Tuesday, without a photograph, reporting that the 39-year-old Australian is wanted for sex crimes by the International Public Prosecution Office in Gothenburg, Sweden.
A Swedish judge on Nov. 18 ordered Assange detained in absentia to answer questions in a rape, coercion and molestation investigation in Stockholm. A court approved an international arrest warrant for the ex-hacker two days later, at which point Sweden reportedly applied to Interpol for the Red Notice. Assanges lawyer appealed the detention order to the Svea Court of Appeal, but lost. Assange filed a new appeal Tuesday to the Swedish Supreme Court.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpol_notice
An Interpol notice or international notice is issued by Interpol to share information between its members. There are seven types, colour-coded by their function: red, blue, green, yellow, black, orange, and purple.
Requests (provisional) arrest of wanted persons, with a view to extradition. An Interpol Red Notice is "the closest instrument to an international arrest warrant in use today." Interpol does not have the authority to issue arrest warrants in the formal sense of the word, as this is the domain of the sovereign member states.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Yes there were two warrants, issued simultaneously, for a man who has not even charged with a crime.
The more people see the lengths to which those who oppose Wikileaks have gone to go after someone for something that in Sweden itself, rarely even results in a conviction, the more it becomes clear that it is not this case they are after him for. This was unprecedented in the history if Interpol and the EU.
The claim that Sweden could not arrest Assange in London was false, I'm glad you finally realize that.
pnwmom
(108,955 posts)All they could do was ask Interpol to issue this warrant. And even Interpol couldn't arrest Assange. They put out this RED NOTICE asking its member countries, which would include the UK, to arrest him and extradite him to Sweden. As the Wiki article explains, this is as close to an International Arrest Warrant as you can get; but it still doesn't allow Interpol to arrest him directly. Only the member country can do that.
The two warrants weren't issued simultaneously. First Sweden issued its warrant; two days later, Interpol issued theirs.
Europe comprises several smaller countries, and criminals easily cross their borders. Thousands of these notices are issued every year. And the Red Notice isn't some super-duper special warrant for the worst criminals; it's the only arrest warrant that Interpol issues. All the other color-levels aren't warrants at all.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)issue and which the Swedish prosecutor DID issue. She did not need the Interpol alert in order to have Assange arrested in London.
Iow, every country that is a member of the EU can issue an EAW to have someone arrested in any EU country.
Assange was arrested, something you neglected to note in your original comment, held for 10 days, bailed out, was kept under house arrest for two years, would have been handed over to Sweden had he not appealed the extradition.
It is incorrect to state that Sweden refuses to speak to Assange in London because they could not arrest him there. That was an excuse to try to explain their two year refusal to speak to him, and it was false.
Every member of the EU can issue an EAW if they want someone arrested in a foreign country.
The ridiculous Interpol Red Alert was simply overkill and unprecedented in a case like this.
Someone wants him very badly and it isn't just Sweden.
pnwmom
(108,955 posts)to an EAW or an Interpol warrant.
The interview that Sweden wants to conduct now isn't some little talk. It's a formal proceeding that must take place on Swedish soil, after he's in Swedish custody. They've collected the evidence for a case against him and, in this interview, they will give him a chance to answer it. Then they will make the final decision to charge him or not
TorchtheWitch explains more about that here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1203540
hack89
(39,171 posts)The Brits arrested him and started extradition proceedings in accordance with the treaty between the UK and Sweden. Once he is on Swedish soil then the Swedes can arrest him.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)issued by the Swedish prosecutors, something that may have violated the EU charter btw, and simultaneously, because it appears the puppet governments in Europe have Interpol in their pockets, a 'Red Alert' from Interpol.
The anti-wikileaks faction have been claiming that Sweden could not have Assange arrested in London. That was false. Sweden is a member of the EU and can have someone arrested anywhere in the EU under a EAW. So another excuse for the Prosecutors not moving this case along, has been debunked.
hack89
(39,171 posts)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Arrest_Warrant#Issuing_judicial_authority
Having the British police arrest Assange is not the same as the Swedes arresting him. He was in British custody, not Swedish custody so how the hell can you claim that that constitutes a Swedish arrest is beyond me.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)in London, so it was false to say they couldn't, period.
Sigh, 'having the Brits arrest Assange is not the same thing'. Lol! Seriously, did you really say that? Under a EU warrant it IS the same thing since it has the exact same result as if they arrested him Sweden.
One more time. It was false to state that Sweden could not speak to Assange in London because even if they did they could not arrest him there.
Fact: Sweden and any member of the EU has the power to issue a EU warrant, have the person arrested and handed over to them.
I hope that is the end of that particular excuse.
hack89
(39,171 posts)You play these silly word games but you know what the Swedes want. They want him physically in Sweden. They want to put him on trial. That can't happen until the Swedish police have physical custody of him.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)while he was there and they would have long ago removed the obstacle they keep using as an excuse, their refusal to talk to him. Had they done that long ago, since there are no legal obstacles to doing so, they could have filed their charges, and the trial could be over by now.
hack89
(39,171 posts)Last edited Mon Aug 27, 2012, 10:24 PM - Edit history (1)
I don't think that is a particularly strong argument
The prosecutors told his lawyers three time on the 22nd and 23rd of September 2010 that he was to come in for an interview on the 28th. He skipped town on the 27th.
He fled Sweden to avoid arrest. He fought extradition for two years to avoid arrest. He fled to the Ecuadorian embassy to avoid arrest. I see a pattern here.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)and was told he could leave by the prosecutor. He was not, said the women's attorney, charged with any crime. The arrest warrant was issued on the exact same day. Interesting timing, after telling someone 'no we don't need you here' then boom, issue an arrest warrant.
hack89
(39,171 posts)http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/world/20110224-Britain-Ruling-Assange-Extradition-to-Sweden.pdf
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)200 clients at that time. The Prosecutor, after receiving no response to her first two messages should have understood the lawyer was not receiving them and called him. She has no phone?
Instead she re-used a failed method of communication. She also could have contacted Assange himself, but did not do so.
She, and the women's attorney confirms this, told him he was free to go. That's all the information he had, due to her incompetence, or whatever.
hack89
(39,171 posts)She texted and phoned him - and he said he received those messages and replied.
girl gone mad
(20,634 posts)pnwmom
(108,955 posts)and he was confident enough to post that person's response on his own blog. But I read both and the responder's points weren't very strong, IMO.
pnwmom
(108,955 posts)Some here will tell you that this doesn't exist.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1207602
struggle4progress
(118,224 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)for ten days, then released on bail but remained on house arrest until seeking asylum in the Ecuodorian Embassy.
Iow, the Swedish Prosecutor had him arrested and essentially detained and intended to extradite him Sweden immediately, which she could have done, still intends to do and never was prevented from doing.
This is another false claim made by people who have no clue about this case but for some reason feel compelled to speak as if they did.
The only reason he was not returned to Sweden was that he appealed the extradition as was his right to do.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)numerous times, yet you persist in repeating it. Sweden is no longer making that claim themselves, so why are you?
DeSwiss
(27,137 posts)tama
(9,137 posts)for decades to come.
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)Prophet 451
(9,796 posts)Bottom line: If you're not cynical, you're not paying attention. Whatever you think they're doing, what they're actually doing is far worse.
DemocratsForProgress
(545 posts)bobthedrummer
(26,083 posts)Afghanistan: The War Logs
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/the-war-logs
struggle4progress
(118,224 posts)morningfog
(18,115 posts)struggle4progress
(118,224 posts)morningfog
(18,115 posts)Is it that since we were lied to in the past, we should accept it now? Or what? Come out and say what you mean.
struggle4progress
(118,224 posts)from Wikileaks, then OP doesn't remember Nixon and Reagan
morningfog
(18,115 posts)Like I said, stupid reply.
struggle4progress
(118,224 posts)morningfog
(18,115 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)while an international man hunt was staged, complete with a Red Alert from Interpol, of the messenger, the editor and publisher of the News Organization that produced the evidence of those crimes.
Any idea why no one so far, has even been investigated for those crimes? Women brutally raped and tortured, children sodomized and tortured, men women and children murdered.
You seem inordinately exorcised over what is not even established as a crime, not even charged, so how do you feel about these massive crimes against humanity? I could be wrong, but you appear to be dismissing them? If so, your 'outrage' over some allegations becomes very questionable frankly.
Wilms
(26,795 posts)goodword
(44 posts)If Americans had any sense they would realize they've been lied to for many, many years. If they read and researched and checked facts they would find that our government is untrustworthy and despicably unscrupulous. If they shook themselves loose from Limbaugh and Hannity, they would recognize that our government is no longer within the control of the people no matter who we vote for.
I'm disgusted with American governments, and not just the Federal one. The corruption that lives within these organizations is so powerful it is like an addiction; and we who vote are the enablers.
xchrom
(108,903 posts)librechik
(30,673 posts)is imprisoned and punished without trial because what he did isn't exactly against the law, so they have to scramble to find a way to make it a capitol crime. So as to hide the fact that they can hold anyone indefinitely without a lawyer.
The DOJ is out of control, ever since Bush. And that sissy Holder is doing nothing to fix it.
Eddie Haskell
(1,628 posts)Coincidence is God's way of remaining anonymous.
― Albert Einstein
Generic Other
(28,979 posts)Thanks for an excellent post.