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cleduc

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Member since: Fri Jul 13, 2012, 12:38 PM
Number of posts: 632

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MohRokTah said 'For the "let's wait for the facts" crowd. We already have several facts.'

Next, let me expound on what @JoyAnnReid helped me clarify just now. Just speaking about facts here. No conjecture.

Officer Darren Wilson DID NOT write his own police report of the incident, but the report that was filed from the store references 2 reports

These 2 reports, filed by officers who were not actually at the scene of the murder, have not been released. We know little of them.


Here's a fact you missed: The St Louis County Police took over the investigation of the shooting at the request of the Ferguson Police shortly after the shooting. Therefore, there will be no Darren Wilson police report forthcoming from the Ferguson police. In fact, Wilson may only provide the St Louis County Police with a statement. And none of that is likely to be forthcoming anytime soon until the investigation is completed and maybe not until the Grand Jury has done it's business.

The 2 reports we got relate to the robbery - distinct from the subsequent shooting.

Whining about that isn't going to change the process.

MohRokTah also said
1. According to the Police Chief Officer Darren Wilson DID NOT know about the stolen cigars & all agree the stop was just about jaywalking.


But it's also a fact that Chief Jackson has subsequently said that Wilson knew of the robbery, saw the stolen cigars with Brown after he'd stopped him for jaywalking and joined the dots that Brown may have stolen them before the exchange between them completed. That's a key thing because if true, it would explain officer Wilson backing up up his cruiser and reengaging with Brown and why an altercation between them might have started.

MohRokTah also said
Beyond this sounding preposterous for 82 different reasons, the FACTS show that Mike Brown's body was found 35 feet from the SUV.

The FACTS suggest that Mike Brown ran 35 feet, then TURNED AROUND (as 4 eyewitnesses say) and was shot/killed in that very spot. Facts.

Are you tracking with me? Beyond zero eyewitnesses saying that he ran full speed at the fully armed officer, facts show he didn't.


"Beyond zero eyewitnesses saying that he ran full speed at the fully armed officer" ?

Really? I don't know about "full speed" but :

someone is contradicting the 4 witnesses on that audio

I wasn't there so I don't know which account is accurate. I'm trying to be objective.

And this:
http://danaloeschradio.com/alleged-friend-of-officer-darren-wilson-offers-his-side/
That's a little more murky because it's from a 3rd party via a right wing radio host who I do not care for. But I mention it because that may well be the position of the officer backed up by the audio above. It also alleges Brown turned and came at Wilson before he was fatally shot.

And the 35 feet may be how far Brown wound up away from the cruiser. It doesn't mean he could not have got 50 feet and turned around and come back. And the officer was allegedly in pursuit so they may have been only a few feet apart when the fatal and final shots rang out.

We don't have the ballistics and autopsy yet.

There's more to learn before passing judgement. That's about the only fact I can say heartily here.

The stats shocked me

(for those who hadn't seen them):

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/ferguson-lack-diversity-goes-way-beyond-its-cops
Though two in three Ferguson residents are black, the city government is almost entirely white.


and their elected school board is also almost entirely white

http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-missouri-st-louis-police-shooting-teen-20140811-story.html#page=1
Of the 53 commissioned officers on the police force, three are black, said Ferguson Police Chief Thomas Jackson.


67% of Ferguson citizens are black. 5.6% of Ferguson officers are black.

And from that:
Blacks in Ferguson are twice as likely to be stopped by police as whites, according to an annual report on racial profiling by the Missouri attorney general.

I may not have a big problem with that because there are twice as many blacks as white in Ferguson (I'd have to review the context of those stats).

But here, we seem to have a problem:
Last year, 93% of arrests following car stops in Ferguson were of blacks. Ninety-two percent of searches and 80% of car stops involved blacks, the report said.

Maybe it's to help the court case

by underscoring where both parties agree on facts (which will be the bulk of them) that will reduce the bickering in court/media

Here's someone else's attempt to transcribe the audio

&app=desktop

At 6:28 of this video, this part seems clear

&feature=youtu.be
"Then the next thing I know he doubled back toward him" (6:52 or so)

Since the officer was in pursuit and Mike had been running away, I can't imagine how the officer could ever get described as "doubling back" towards Mike.

Therefore, it does appear there is conflicting testimony from the person recorded by the audio of the above video about what happened before the final shots that suggests Brown came back at the officer just before he was fatally shot.

Is that the final word? No chance. That's just one person's account. But if it's a legit recording, and as of this moment, I didn't hear anything to suggest it wasn't, it would increase the challenge for the family of Mike Brown to get a conviction against the officer who killed Brown ... IF they can find the person who said it and get them to testify (BIG IF right now).

This one as well



which like Dana, appears to be from a right wing leaning source analyzing audio recorded shortly after the shooting

But I can't make out their claims for sure one way or the other on that audio. I have not had the time to conclude one way or the other yet - I'm just trying hard to be objective.

But it is a claim of a second account, like the one made to Dana, maintaining Mike Brown came at the officer before the final shots (note: that claim was also disputed in the comments under the video).

Hopefully, the evidence of where the shell casings were found and the double autopsy can sort out fact from fiction here. If it can't and the officer and a credible witness or two contradict others by saying Mike came at the officer, then they've established reasonable doubt and they will not be able to convict the officer. (don't crucify me as I remain skeptical over the right wing stuff above - I'm just pointing out how this might go in light of the above)

I found a copy



At the start of the video of the street scene, police tape is already up and the street blocked off with a few cruisers. It's obviously fairly shortly after the shooting. Brown is lying uncovered in the street.

very early in, audio says "killed for no reason"

0:29 "dead body" and more comments about Mike being dead follow

also other comments about Mike being unarmed and the shooting being senseless

2:55 his uncle (allegedly, "father" on video) tries to check out Mike and police escort him behind the tape

3:15 or so the EMS appears
Walks up to Mike on the road carrying a bag/suitcase
He kneels to check Mike out and checks his pulse.

Then he gets up and walks around to the other side of the body and kneels again to check Mike out.
audio "they say he had his hands up and everything man"

4:24 it looks like the EMS then makes a cell phone call.

I couldn't find the video quickly

I'll post a link to it if I do.

Seemingly well before the body is covered - it looks like it's not long after the shooting to me, two uniforms approach Mike lying in the street. One is an officer. The other is carrying a fairly big box like suitcase and wearing blue rubber gloves. When I first saw him, he looked like either he was EMS or there to collect evidence. But he doesn't collect evidence. He looks Mike over and then it looks like he makes a call on his cell phone. (based upon my memory of the video since I don't have it in front of me)

It's been reported that the EMS that went with Wilson to the call about the baby having trouble breathing just before this incident were the same EMS who came to the Brown shooting scene not long after the shooting.

On page 17 of the police documents:
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2014/images/08/15/ferguson-police-report.pdf
12:04 EMS Contacted
On Page 18:
Event Report
12:04:15 Precinct set to '1', Sector set to '4', GEO set to '134.1', Fire set to '', EMS set to ''

I also wonder how much of that would appear on the above audio.


It is the audio from the St Louis County Police - not the Ferguson police

These files compiled in this video contains audio of St. Louis police dispatch from the date of August 9th 2014.
...
9:35: "Ferguson is asking for assistance with crowd control . . ."

10:58: "Now they have a large group gathering there, she doesn't know any further. . ."

11:20: "We just got another call stating it was an officer-involved shooting . . ."



Again, the above has to be verified. Just passing along what I think I saw, some of the evidence of EMS activity in the Ferguson police logs and pointing out the audio is not from the Ferguson Police - it's from the St Louis County Police.

Holder is putting 40 agents into the area

http://www.freep.com/article/20140817/NEWS07/308170137/ferguson-shooting-curfew-quiet
The Justice Department said Sunday it would perform a separate, "independent" autopsy of Michael Brown's body "due to the extraordinary circumstances involved in this case."

The autopsy was at the request of the Brown family
, according to a statement by the Justice Department.
...
Nixon also said it was important to have thorough local and FBI investigations completed as soon as possible.

"Attorney General Holder said he is putting 40 agents into the area to accelerate the process," Nixon said. "It's important to get this right. It has to be transparent justice, it has to be thorough justice."

I don't think so on this "sees the cigars and then drives away"

I think it might have been more like this based upon what has been said:

"sees the cigars as he's driving away. It then clicks in that these guys may be the cigar robbery suspects and he backs his cruiser up to address that .. which leads to the altercation"

I wasn't there. I don't know if that is exactly what happened. But it is quite plausible based upon what we've been told so far.

But again, that doesn't excuse the officer for blowing a guy away with his hands up. All it might explain is the sequence of events that led up to that moment.
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