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cleduc

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Member since: Fri Jul 13, 2012, 12:38 PM
Number of posts: 640

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To their credit, they're looking at the situation

I realize people want action now and what that might sound like.

But if they're going to solve the problem properly or in a meaningful way, they have to look or research, get their facts, develop an approach, get consensus, implement or act, etc. No matter what, it's going to take some time to do it right.

One thing I read that was encouraging is they're looking beyond Mike Brown - at the guy who got charged for getting blood on the officers uniforms and a broader assessment of civil rights violations in the city of Ferguson.

With the cigarillos robbery, they may have trouble making a civil rights case against Wilson.

But with a broader approach, in some respects, they might get the whole Feruson police force for profiling or some other unfairness. That would be big.

When I hear that, I'm encouraged that they're not content with the status quo and are thinking outside of the box to try to do something meaningful.

Having said that, actions speak louder than words while patience is a virtue.

I didn't see it as "the" turning point

It was a key moment - another major steeping stone in the growth of the movement.

Before that:

The bombing of North Vietnam in '65? seemed to get things really rolling

Bob Dylan and Joan Baez helped the music scene and artists get involved using non-news media and concerts to get the message out

MLK (who showed students the ropes on how to protest the war) & other civil rights leaders came out against the war.

So did RFK and others.

Walter Cronkite coming out against the war in early '68 was BIG in terms of gathering support in the media and from the more conservative public.

The protests in DC, NY & CA and elsewhere along the way grew larger and attracted more media support as the crowds grew. It was too big for the media to ignore.

Other artists, musicians, entertainers got on board. etc

The assassinations of MLK & RFK earlier in '68 stoked the unrest further

So the '68 convention was another key event in a string of events that helped get more media and citizens on board. At that juncture though, I'd say the momentum of the movement was too enormous to be denied.

After the '68 convention, the slaughter of protesting students at Kent State by the National Guard in the spring of '70 was another big moment we might relate to Ferguson to remind ourselves of the real and present danger the citizens of Ferguson are in right now. And for those wringing their hands over getting justice for Mike Brown, the families of those Kent State kids are still looking for the truth of what happened there today.

It's not an opinion on this case

because he has not concluded one way or the other.

And I think he's right. No physical evidence of a struggle doesn't mean there was no struggle because there could have been a struggle where one party (Brown in this case above) did not receive injuries observable and conclusively attributable to a struggle by the coroner.

There have been reports the officer suffered a facial injury as result of the altercation at the cruiser and eventually went to the hospital for treatment. Since I haven't seen actual evidence of that, I can't be absolutely sure the officer got injured due to a struggle with Brown. I would concede it's probable based upon all that I've heard but I'll reserve judgement on that until we get more facts.

Appalling conduct - particularly under the circumstances

If they don't get a handle on this, more folks are going to get hurt or die.

As well, there were a lot of witnesses to process

Apparently, various law enforcement authorities have spoken with 200 or so

It's not uncommon for police to keep things close to the vest in ANY crime to minimize tainting the investigation / witness testimony, etc.

Obviously, in this case, that becomes murky with all the media coverage broadcasting witness testimony and pundits weighing in with their opinions.

I have read that Wilson provided two statements on the shooting. One, on the day of the shooting. Another, more lengthy one, in the next few days after the shooting. I do not know if it was written or verbal.

I doubt any of that will be published until the Grand Jury has done it's thing. I know folks are anxious but I think that's the right call.

What they have released is stuff about the sick child call and the robbery under FOIA requests.

This is just plain wrong particularly under these circumstances

This task belongs to someone perceived by many, including police and black citizens, as qualified, objective, honest, totally independent with no ties, no conflicts of interest, no bias, etc.

After the Rodney King verdict:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Los_Angeles_riots
The riots, beginning the day of the verdicts, peaked in intensity over the next two days. A dusk-to-dawn curfew and deployment of the California Army National Guard eventually controlled the situation.

53 people died during the riots, including ten who were shot dead by police and military forces, with as many as 2,000 people injured. Estimates of the material losses vary between about $800 million and $1 billion. Approximately 3,600 fires were set, destroying 1,100 buildings, with fire calls coming once every minute at some points. Widespread looting also occurred. Stores owned by Korean and other Asian ethnicities were widely targeted.


To leave this man in this position risks more lives being lost. It might be more stupid than how Darren Wilson handled Mike Brown because they have the luxury of more time to deliberate their actions.

For the sake of avoiding more innocent citizens potentially getting hurt, shut this guy down!

It's a no brainer.

There have to be a bunch of officers looking at this situation

saying to themselves "I do not want this to happen to me"

No matter what happens in the criminal and civil courts with this, Darren Wilson's life isn't going to be an easy one. Zimmerman many not have got the punishment for his actions many of us thought he deserved but his life is never going to be an easy one to live out either - which is at least some form of punishment.

Like crime or many other unacceptable behaviors, it's not likely this behavior will ever get totally eliminated. But if those who go down this path get held to account and the bright lights of media and public scrutiny shone on them, I think it's going to have a curtailing effect.

Mike Brown is tragically dead. But from his loss of life, Ferguson will never be the same. It's policing is going to get cleaned up to some significant level of improvement. And the aftershocks of this tragedy are probably saving some lives around the country because a few or many more cops are going to think twice before blowing someone away.

"A fight through a window is a losing fight for the person inside every time "

Not every time ...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5404941

I fought the law ... and the law lost



If the officer had done what I did, he may well have apprehended Brown without loss of life.

I quickly obtained an advantage because my two arms overpowered his one arm - that happened to be on the side of his holster.

BTW, I don't recommend my behavior. It could have easily turned out badly. But that cop was clearly out of line, assaulted me with zero provocation and went too far with someone who could take care of themselves.

I'm playing around with it because I'm pretty sure

that's where they're going with it. They don't have much choice as it's the only defense one can make to try to get Wilson off a criminal charge. So I'm tinkering with how to beat them at their own game.

To extend your thought, aren't police officers supposed to tamp these situations down? The John Wayne bar room brawl is supposed to be the last resort, isn't it? But this guy ramped up and did the kid in very quickly. He could not possibly have handled it well for it to get that ugly so quickly. He screwed up on that basis alone.

As well, and I haven't seen this raised, what is this guy doing blazing away on a residential street? What if one of those bullets (he missed several shots) hit a little kid on a bike or in a baby carriage or somebody's grandma or mother and killed them? What would he say "Well, at least I recovered a few bucks worth of cigarillos?" That's nuts.

Along that reasoning, is Mike Brown's life worth less than $50 worth of cigarillos? Wouldn't a good cop reason once the kid was running away as he raised his pistol "Hey, this isn't worth it. Let the kid go and maybe we'll catch up with him later when he's cooled down."

If Mike had gone after his gun and wasted him, was the cops life worth less than $50 worth of cigarillos?

No matter what defense they come up with, some of that cop's thinking is indefensible for the greater good and safety of the public he's supposed to protect. Ignoring what happened to Mike Brown for a moment (and I don't mean to belittle his horrific loss because that's what a big bunch of this is about), even if one were to accept everything they've said to date in the cop's defense, this whole thing was pretty over the top crazy behavior by that cop. It was stupid, reckless and senseless.

I continue to have the same problem with it

I posted this in the first autopsy thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5407236

Two head shots that seem to come roughly from the top of the head downward on a very big man ...

If he's down on his knees, it's not so hard to imagine.

If he's running towards Wilson as Wilson is alleged to have claimed:

The eye socket shot going down through his jaw - that one might have deflected at quite an angle from the edge of his eye socket but it's hard for me to imagine a 90 degree ricochet when they're usually less than 15-30 degrees. His head probably had to be tilted downwards quite a bit.

The one in the top of the skull was found in his skull. That one strikes me as coming at an angle roughly close to perpendicular to the top of his head. Bullets can bounce off bone. It's coming from a pistol - not a high powered rifle - so it's max speed is about half the velocity of a rifle - which means it can't penetrate skull bone as easily at a glancing angle.

That suggests he'd have to be coming at Wilson like a bull or maybe a linebacker getting ready to tackle. And he's running into a steady spray of bullets - a number that are hitting him before these ones kill him. Maybe it was the last shot as he was going down ...

I suppose life is stranger than fiction but running towards an officer blasting away is a pretty friggin' crazy thing to expect.

Having said that, it's very premature. We have to wait for the full autopsy combined with ballistics before one can conclude much on bullet trajectory. But from what I've seen so far, I have real reservations about Wilson's account jiving with the autopsy.
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