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cleduc

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Member since: Fri Jul 13, 2012, 12:38 PM
Number of posts: 644

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I looked up a few shootings and deaths on google randomly

The quickest shooting death I saw was 2 hrs 45 mins from the time they found the body to removal

Whitney Houston (not a shooting) at 9 hrs was the longest I saw

I saw a number at 3-4 hours.

Two significant things would slow down the processing of this crime scene over some that I saw:
1. They called in the St Louis County police to process a Ferguson police crime scene
(ie lots of chatter between the two, additional time to respond, etc)
2. There were a lot of shots fired and most were outside of the vehicle - bullets not easily found stuck in a 2x4 in someone's basement.

So I'm not buying the 5 hours taken to process this crime scene as automatically sinister because they took a while.

Hope so

Apparently Holder is looking at the Henry Davis case (the guy wrongfully arrested and charged with getting his blood on officers uniforms). A key perpetrator of that is now on the city council.


http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/08/19/from-ferguson-cop-embroiled-in-a-brutality-suit-to-city-councilwoman.html
One Ferguson cop who has proved worth a good look is Eddie Boyd, who was previously with the St. Louis Police Department. He left there after twice being accused of striking youngsters with his service weapon, one a 16-year-old boy, the other a girl of just 12.

Boyd won a case brought against him in civil court, but the Administrative Hearing Commission of the State of Missouri recommended that the department discipline him for two counts of “committing a criminal act and for committing an act while on active duty that involved a reckless disregard for the safety of a person.”

Still, the Ferguson police department was happy to hire him, adding another white to a 52-member department that has only three black officers. He has since been sued in federal court by a man named Eugene McAllister, who filed a handwritten complaint alleging that Boyd and two other officers beat him as he held up his hands as ordered following a car chase on January 26, 2011.

“Plaintiff never created a threatening move towards any officer but continued to state, ‘I give! I give!’” the complaint says. “Officer Eddie Boyd then started beating plaintiff in the head and body by punching him over and over.”

Boyd has denied the allegation.

And then there were Tihen and three other cops in a brutality case that had been all but forgotten.


Typically 20% of something causes 80% of the problem. start by replacing 10 of the worst offenders along with the police chief and his top minions (20-25% of the force), with all black personnel, and I bet things would get substantially better. If there's still trouble, get rid of another 10 or whatever. They only have 3 black cops and should have 35 to match the mix of races in that city. With their behavior to date, a bunch of heads could roll.

Further to my post

Here's some of Holder's words:
http://www.stltoday.com/news/opinion/a-message-to-the-people-of-ferguson/article_ea8b7358-67a3-5187-af8c-169567f27a0d.html
At the same time, good law enforcement requires forging bonds of trust between the police and the public. This trust is all-important, but it is also fragile. It requires that force be used in appropriate ways. Enforcement priorities and arrest patterns must not lead to disparate treatment under the law, even if such treatment is unintended. And police forces should reflect the diversity of the communities they serve.

Over the years, we have made significant progress in ensuring that this is the case. But progress is not an endpoint; it is a measure of effort and of commitment. Constructive dialogue should continue — but it must also be converted into concrete action. And it is painfully clear, in cities and circumstances across our great nation, that more progress, more dialogue, and more action is needed.

This is my pledge to the people of Ferguson: Our investigation into this matter will be full, it will be fair, and it will be independent. And beyond the investigation itself, we will work with the police, civil rights leaders, and members of the public to ensure that this tragedy can give rise to new understanding — and robust action — aimed at bridging persistent gaps between law enforcement officials and the communities we serve. Long after the events of Aug. 9 have receded from the headlines, the Justice Department will continue to stand with this community.

To their credit, they're looking at the situation

I realize people want action now and what that might sound like.

But if they're going to solve the problem properly or in a meaningful way, they have to look or research, get their facts, develop an approach, get consensus, implement or act, etc. No matter what, it's going to take some time to do it right.

One thing I read that was encouraging is they're looking beyond Mike Brown - at the guy who got charged for getting blood on the officers uniforms and a broader assessment of civil rights violations in the city of Ferguson.

With the cigarillos robbery, they may have trouble making a civil rights case against Wilson.

But with a broader approach, in some respects, they might get the whole Feruson police force for profiling or some other unfairness. That would be big.

When I hear that, I'm encouraged that they're not content with the status quo and are thinking outside of the box to try to do something meaningful.

Having said that, actions speak louder than words while patience is a virtue.

I didn't see it as "the" turning point

It was a key moment - another major steeping stone in the growth of the movement.

Before that:

The bombing of North Vietnam in '65? seemed to get things really rolling

Bob Dylan and Joan Baez helped the music scene and artists get involved using non-news media and concerts to get the message out

MLK (who showed students the ropes on how to protest the war) & other civil rights leaders came out against the war.

So did RFK and others.

Walter Cronkite coming out against the war in early '68 was BIG in terms of gathering support in the media and from the more conservative public.

The protests in DC, NY & CA and elsewhere along the way grew larger and attracted more media support as the crowds grew. It was too big for the media to ignore.

Other artists, musicians, entertainers got on board. etc

The assassinations of MLK & RFK earlier in '68 stoked the unrest further

So the '68 convention was another key event in a string of events that helped get more media and citizens on board. At that juncture though, I'd say the momentum of the movement was too enormous to be denied.

After the '68 convention, the slaughter of protesting students at Kent State by the National Guard in the spring of '70 was another big moment we might relate to Ferguson to remind ourselves of the real and present danger the citizens of Ferguson are in right now. And for those wringing their hands over getting justice for Mike Brown, the families of those Kent State kids are still looking for the truth of what happened there today.

It's not an opinion on this case

because he has not concluded one way or the other.

And I think he's right. No physical evidence of a struggle doesn't mean there was no struggle because there could have been a struggle where one party (Brown in this case above) did not receive injuries observable and conclusively attributable to a struggle by the coroner.

There have been reports the officer suffered a facial injury as result of the altercation at the cruiser and eventually went to the hospital for treatment. Since I haven't seen actual evidence of that, I can't be absolutely sure the officer got injured due to a struggle with Brown. I would concede it's probable based upon all that I've heard but I'll reserve judgement on that until we get more facts.

Appalling conduct - particularly under the circumstances

If they don't get a handle on this, more folks are going to get hurt or die.

As well, there were a lot of witnesses to process

Apparently, various law enforcement authorities have spoken with 200 or so

It's not uncommon for police to keep things close to the vest in ANY crime to minimize tainting the investigation / witness testimony, etc.

Obviously, in this case, that becomes murky with all the media coverage broadcasting witness testimony and pundits weighing in with their opinions.

I have read that Wilson provided two statements on the shooting. One, on the day of the shooting. Another, more lengthy one, in the next few days after the shooting. I do not know if it was written or verbal.

I doubt any of that will be published until the Grand Jury has done it's thing. I know folks are anxious but I think that's the right call.

What they have released is stuff about the sick child call and the robbery under FOIA requests.

This is just plain wrong particularly under these circumstances

This task belongs to someone perceived by many, including police and black citizens, as qualified, objective, honest, totally independent with no ties, no conflicts of interest, no bias, etc.

After the Rodney King verdict:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Los_Angeles_riots
The riots, beginning the day of the verdicts, peaked in intensity over the next two days. A dusk-to-dawn curfew and deployment of the California Army National Guard eventually controlled the situation.

53 people died during the riots, including ten who were shot dead by police and military forces, with as many as 2,000 people injured. Estimates of the material losses vary between about $800 million and $1 billion. Approximately 3,600 fires were set, destroying 1,100 buildings, with fire calls coming once every minute at some points. Widespread looting also occurred. Stores owned by Korean and other Asian ethnicities were widely targeted.


To leave this man in this position risks more lives being lost. It might be more stupid than how Darren Wilson handled Mike Brown because they have the luxury of more time to deliberate their actions.

For the sake of avoiding more innocent citizens potentially getting hurt, shut this guy down!

It's a no brainer.

There have to be a bunch of officers looking at this situation

saying to themselves "I do not want this to happen to me"

No matter what happens in the criminal and civil courts with this, Darren Wilson's life isn't going to be an easy one. Zimmerman many not have got the punishment for his actions many of us thought he deserved but his life is never going to be an easy one to live out either - which is at least some form of punishment.

Like crime or many other unacceptable behaviors, it's not likely this behavior will ever get totally eliminated. But if those who go down this path get held to account and the bright lights of media and public scrutiny shone on them, I think it's going to have a curtailing effect.

Mike Brown is tragically dead. But from his loss of life, Ferguson will never be the same. It's policing is going to get cleaned up to some significant level of improvement. And the aftershocks of this tragedy are probably saving some lives around the country because a few or many more cops are going to think twice before blowing someone away.
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