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cleduc

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Member since: Fri Jul 13, 2012, 12:38 PM
Number of posts: 644

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Here's my take on those so far:

As it pertains to this particular case (robbery, shooting & riots):

Use of excessive force. - he suspended the officer who may have done that to Brown & within hours, he gave control to the St Louis country police for the riots and the investigation of the shooting
Racism. - I have not seen him guilty of that in this case yet
Violation of civil rights. - I have not seen him guilty of that in this case yet
Illegal arrests. - all I've seen is him turn loose people who were illegally arrested by other officers but in fairness to him, he gave control to the St Louis country police for the riots
Abuse of power. - I have not seen him guilty of that in this case yet
Falsifying evidence. - I have not seen him guilty of that in this case yet
Perjury. - I have not seen him guilty of that in this case yet and there have not been any official proceedings required for perjury related to this case yet
Corruption. - I have not seen him guilty of that in this case yet

I'm not saying those things are impossible to be true. Maybe I've missed something but I honestly just haven't seen anything that soundly justifies those allegations against the Ferguson Police Chief yet.

Having said that, he is chief over a very predominantly white police force who police over citizens who are predominantly black. Should we question the civil rights seemingly violated with his hiring practices? You bet.

Why are the officers who did this:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/08/15/the-day-ferguson-cops-were-caught-in-a-bloody-lie.html
still employed as Ferguson Police officers?
The injustice still continues as the officers were granted "official immunity":
http://diasforum.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/henry_m_davis_vs_city_of_ferguson_excessive_force2.pdf
Makes my head spin.

I could go on and on.

If you're a 300 lb guy like Mike Brown and you see police doing stuff to your friends and neighbors like they did to Henry Davis and getting away with it, you can be easily provoked into taking matters into your own hands because you're big enough to do something about it - standing up for people you care about.

In fairness, I'm sure there's another side to some of these stories.

But on that front, there is clearly a significant problem in Ferguson with their police - some of it apparently racial. Since all this crap was happening on Chief Jackson's watch, he and his minions simply need to go. They need someone the community seems to respect like Captain Ron Johnson to come in to clean house and bring law and order that respects civil rights to a festering situation that threatens to spiral out of control to harm more good people.

I know the parents of the shot kids at Kent State had

a heck of a time trying to sue the government. They had to go all the way to the Supreme Court. At the end, they got $15,000 per son/daughter and are still searching for the truth about who gave the order. It isn't always easy.

According to the police logs and media reports, the EMS was dispatched immediately and the ambulance that had been on a sick call minutes before with Wilson attended to Brown. So did another officer who was investigating the robbery.

My understanding of the Ferguson police is that they're well armed with powerful handguns that have stopping power. If one takes a slug from one of those weapons in the face, as was reported happened to Brown, that alone can be catastrophic. Based on the number of shell casings police reported and eye witness reports, Brown was hit several times. They probably took a look and quickly concluded "There's nothing we can do for him".

At that point, they leave the body where it is to minimize disturbing the crime scene - as is procedure.

What would be the charge against "the Mayor, City Attorney, Aldermen" and/or

the Police Chief?

I have my doubts that will matter much

The police have confirmed Mike Brown was unarmed. = they didn't plant a weapon on him.

The police have confirmed the only spent shell casings belonged to the officer and that he fired several shots. = they didn't plant any other evidence that could help their fellow officer there.

Mike Brown is dead full of lead from the officer's gun roughly 35 feet from the cruiser where their altercation began. = they couldn't do much physically to the crime scene with everybody watching.

Several witnesses describe Brown running away until he's shot, turning around and putting his hands up. And then they describe the officer pumping several more shots into Brown. = so far, the police haven't presented any witnesses or evidence to refute that.

I've been over that and over that trying to imagine what excuse the officer could come up with to justify his actions or what other evidence could exist to bail him out. And all I can do is shrug my shoulders. (sarcasm "I thought my life was in danger because he was going to throw the box of stolen rellos at me from 35 feet" /sarcasm")

My guess: I think the officer got injured in their scuffle around the cruiser, stepped out pissed off and blew him away.

In light of the above, I'm at a loss to imagine what the police could do with evidence to defend Wilson.

Then again, I was shocked and stunned when Zimmerman got away with blowing Trayvon Martin away. There seem to be no guarantees when you get in a court room.

... when Wilson originally stopped him

but Jackson went on to suggest Wilson later saw the cigars and put two and two together - which may have been why he backed up his cruiser after starting to drive off.

I don't know the specific answers to some of your questions but

On the Federal civil rights question:
There was a 911 call and that got carried through the police radio broadcasting the cigars were stolen and a description of the suspect. Even if Mike Brown was innocent, his description matched the suspect and they recovered matching cigars from the crime scene. Chief Jackson said he thought Wilson noticed the cigars after he originally stopped to ask them to get off the road.

So Wilson appears to have had reasonable cause to try to apprehend Brown as a suspect (if what the chief said was true and it would be hard to disprove). Therefore, on that basis, there would be reasonable doubt that Wilson made his decision to try to apprehend Brown on the basis of racial profiling.

= End of civil rights case as I see it unless someone can dream up some other reasonable and plausible angle.

On the "Does a grand jury have to be empaneled?" question.

I've already heard more than once in media interviews with police that the matter is going to get referred to a grand jury. I'm not clear on what other legal options they might have had but that seems to be the path they're taking.

I respectfully disagree

Within hours, Chief Jackson ceded control over the investigation and crowd control to the St. Louis County Police.

Jackson is no longer investigating the shooting formally. He doesn't control the autopsy, ballistics, etc.

I'm sure to some extent, Jackson is trying to provide reasonable support to Darren Wilson - one of his fellow police officers. But he's now pretty limited in what he can really do for him.

The FBI are also looking over their shoulder.

The only person actually on trial here is the officer, Darren Wilson, who shot Mike Brown - and until the investigation is complete, he isn't formally on trial. Of interest to answer that is whether Mike Brown committed the theft of cigars (I strongly suspect he did) and whether that motivated the officer to apprehend him (I suspect that it did) and whether that contributed to starting the altercation between them (I also suspect that it did). The BIG, BIG issue is whether excessive force was used (I strongly suspect that it was) and what justification the officer had for using that force (I have big doubts the officer will be able to completely justify his actions to the public).

Yes, the media will run with peripheral stories about racism, the poor relationship between the predominately white police force and the predominantly black citizens they're supposed to protect, etc, etc. But law enforcement's focus, under pressure by the national media and other groups, will be to determine if the officer used excessive force.

As it looks like Mike Brown did steal those cigars and according to the police, that factored into the officer trying to apprehend him, the civil rights investigation by the FBI is probably going nowhere.

You may have already seen Chief Jackson's last significant press conference on this case. It's in the hands of others now. It's coming down to the State vs officer Darren Wilson to seek justice for Mike Brown and his family.

To me, it's a fairly straightforward legal question with a bunch of evidence being gathered, unknown to us at this time and yet to be presented. All this other conspiracy stuff is smoke.

and the red cap ...

Again, here's the tweet quoted

that tweet says the police were the ONLY ones talking about Mike Brown being a suspect for stealing something from a store:

https://twitter.com/MichaelSkolnik/status/498473080227106816
Michael SkolnikVerified account
‏@MichaelSkolnik
Ferguson police are only ones saying #MikeBrown stole something from store. Parents went to store + workers said they never called police.


A key thing to note is when that was tweeted:
7:16 AM - 10 Aug 2014 - the morning after the shooting

Now that particular link doesn't say "cigars". But the next one does:

https://twitter.com/TheePharoah/status/498225036478529536
Bruh.
‏@TheePharoah
"@_vonteee_: Dude stupid for stealing them rellos got his ass wacked 😂😂🔫" cmon bruh.


Retweeted 2:51 PM - 9 Aug 2014 - less than 3 hrs after shooting and "rellos" is cigars

https://twitter.com/blueinmo/status/498250939413708800
tamara beinlich
‏@blueinmo
@BrittanyNoble @CallOut4 they shot and killed a(black) teen for shopping lifting candy!


Tweeted 4:34 PM - 9 Aug 2014 - 4.5 hrs after shooting


https://twitter.com/MichaelSkolnik/status/498257849991299074
Michael SkolnikVerified account
‏@MichaelSkolnik
Young man who was killed by police in Ferguson, MO is said to be Michael Brown. Allegedly he stole candy. Was to start college on Monday.


Tweeted 5:01 PM - 9 Aug 2014, 5 hours after shooting

Clearly, not long after the shooting, Brown was being named as a suspect for stealing. The folks in the store were not talking because they were afraid (and for good reason as theit QuikTrip stores in the areas were subsequently looted and burned. So the only party identified as a source for that allegation in those early hours was the Ferguson police.

Nope

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5396194

The police have been talking about Brown being a suspect for stealing the cigars since the outset
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