HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » cleduc » Journal
Introducing Discussionist: A new forum by the creators of DU
Page: « Prev 1 ... 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 ... 22 Next »

cleduc

Profile Information

Member since: Fri Jul 13, 2012, 12:38 PM
Number of posts: 637

Journal Archives

I don't know the specific answers to some of your questions but

On the Federal civil rights question:
There was a 911 call and that got carried through the police radio broadcasting the cigars were stolen and a description of the suspect. Even if Mike Brown was innocent, his description matched the suspect and they recovered matching cigars from the crime scene. Chief Jackson said he thought Wilson noticed the cigars after he originally stopped to ask them to get off the road.

So Wilson appears to have had reasonable cause to try to apprehend Brown as a suspect (if what the chief said was true and it would be hard to disprove). Therefore, on that basis, there would be reasonable doubt that Wilson made his decision to try to apprehend Brown on the basis of racial profiling.

= End of civil rights case as I see it unless someone can dream up some other reasonable and plausible angle.

On the "Does a grand jury have to be empaneled?" question.

I've already heard more than once in media interviews with police that the matter is going to get referred to a grand jury. I'm not clear on what other legal options they might have had but that seems to be the path they're taking.

I respectfully disagree

Within hours, Chief Jackson ceded control over the investigation and crowd control to the St. Louis County Police.

Jackson is no longer investigating the shooting formally. He doesn't control the autopsy, ballistics, etc.

I'm sure to some extent, Jackson is trying to provide reasonable support to Darren Wilson - one of his fellow police officers. But he's now pretty limited in what he can really do for him.

The FBI are also looking over their shoulder.

The only person actually on trial here is the officer, Darren Wilson, who shot Mike Brown - and until the investigation is complete, he isn't formally on trial. Of interest to answer that is whether Mike Brown committed the theft of cigars (I strongly suspect he did) and whether that motivated the officer to apprehend him (I suspect that it did) and whether that contributed to starting the altercation between them (I also suspect that it did). The BIG, BIG issue is whether excessive force was used (I strongly suspect that it was) and what justification the officer had for using that force (I have big doubts the officer will be able to completely justify his actions to the public).

Yes, the media will run with peripheral stories about racism, the poor relationship between the predominately white police force and the predominantly black citizens they're supposed to protect, etc, etc. But law enforcement's focus, under pressure by the national media and other groups, will be to determine if the officer used excessive force.

As it looks like Mike Brown did steal those cigars and according to the police, that factored into the officer trying to apprehend him, the civil rights investigation by the FBI is probably going nowhere.

You may have already seen Chief Jackson's last significant press conference on this case. It's in the hands of others now. It's coming down to the State vs officer Darren Wilson to seek justice for Mike Brown and his family.

To me, it's a fairly straightforward legal question with a bunch of evidence being gathered, unknown to us at this time and yet to be presented. All this other conspiracy stuff is smoke.

and the red cap ...

Again, here's the tweet quoted

that tweet says the police were the ONLY ones talking about Mike Brown being a suspect for stealing something from a store:

https://twitter.com/MichaelSkolnik/status/498473080227106816
Michael SkolnikVerified account
‏@MichaelSkolnik
Ferguson police are only ones saying #MikeBrown stole something from store. Parents went to store + workers said they never called police.


A key thing to note is when that was tweeted:
7:16 AM - 10 Aug 2014 - the morning after the shooting

Now that particular link doesn't say "cigars". But the next one does:

https://twitter.com/TheePharoah/status/498225036478529536
Bruh.
‏@TheePharoah
"@_vonteee_: Dude stupid for stealing them rellos got his ass wacked 😂😂🔫" cmon bruh.


Retweeted 2:51 PM - 9 Aug 2014 - less than 3 hrs after shooting and "rellos" is cigars

https://twitter.com/blueinmo/status/498250939413708800
tamara beinlich
‏@blueinmo
@BrittanyNoble @CallOut4 they shot and killed a(black) teen for shopping lifting candy!


Tweeted 4:34 PM - 9 Aug 2014 - 4.5 hrs after shooting


https://twitter.com/MichaelSkolnik/status/498257849991299074
Michael SkolnikVerified account
‏@MichaelSkolnik
Young man who was killed by police in Ferguson, MO is said to be Michael Brown. Allegedly he stole candy. Was to start college on Monday.


Tweeted 5:01 PM - 9 Aug 2014, 5 hours after shooting

Clearly, not long after the shooting, Brown was being named as a suspect for stealing. The folks in the store were not talking because they were afraid (and for good reason as theit QuikTrip stores in the areas were subsequently looted and burned. So the only party identified as a source for that allegation in those early hours was the Ferguson police.

Nope

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5396194

The police have been talking about Brown being a suspect for stealing the cigars since the outset

So some of the media claims BUT

as of 7:16 AM - 10 Aug 2014 - the morning after the shooting, this was tweeted:

https://twitter.com/MichaelSkolnik/status/498473080227106816
Michael SkolnikVerified account
‏@MichaelSkolnik
Ferguson police are only ones saying #MikeBrown stole something from store. Parents went to store + workers said they never called police.


The 911 calls suggest the workers did call but were afraid to publicly acknowledge it ... as it turned out, with good reason.

So a hunk of that detail about Brown as a robbery suspect was there within hours of the shooting. And that wasn't the only tweet or source about the robbery back then.

The national media didn't bother with it much but the local media did.

And in part, as a result, the mobs lashed out at the QuikTrip chain stores in the riots that followed.

Some of the problem here relates to the quality of media coverage.

Initially, no. He was concerned with them blocking the street. BUT

Chief Jackson said that the officer apparently noticed the stolen cigars as he drove off and backed up his cruiser which is when the altercation started.

Police log show EMS contacted at 12:04

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2014/images/08/15/ferguson-police-report.pdf

shows in two logs on page 17 and 18

It's been said several times that the EMS who had been with Wilson on a sick call just before the shooting responded to the shooting.

I love animals and don't like guns. But I grew up in a family of hunters. There are times when you just know something is dead or as good as dead - it's hopeless.

An EMS person comes across a guy who has allegedly been shot multiple times including in the face with a weapon that has significant firepower, as the Ferguson cops allegedly possess. It might not take very long to conclude that person's ultimate disposition - even if they still had a flicker of a weak pulse - because the damage is so obviously catastrophic, there is no hope.

I don't have a problem with them releasing the story about the robbery

It may provide some motive for the altercation that went on before the shooting.

I'm not saying it gets the police officer off the hook but it provides some balance and may help a few folks calm down to contemplate that there are two sides to the story and therefore, to let the wheels of justice roll on rather than riot and take matters into their own hands.

Although it may have no direct bearing on the case, I also didn't mind finding out about this either:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/08/15/the-day-ferguson-cops-were-caught-in-a-bloody-lie.html
Maybe some good will come from Mike Brown's loss of life to help address that injustice while we're at it.

Cockroaches don't like bright lights shone on them.

+1

Go to Page: « Prev 1 ... 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 ... 22 Next »