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freshwest

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Member since: Fri Dec 10, 2010, 10:36 PM
Number of posts: 47,892

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Libertarians, eww. Fiscal policy is the prime social issue, actually.

It's not talking just about being efficient in the government, because they want to get rid of all the things government does to uplift those who have been disadvantaged by the oppressors in the private sector. They want to be free of government telling them they can't discriminate, can't pollute, can't make their money anyway they want and the devil take the hindmost.

Charles Koch ran on the Libertarian Party ticket for POTUS as well as Ron Paul. The Koch family founded the John Birch Society, part of the racist patriot movement.

Libertarianism is the philosophy of Rush, Ryan, Romney and Teabaggers. They hate all liberals as their idol Ayn Rand did.

George Monbiot wrote how conservatives have elminated liberal libertarian beliefs is below. Give it a read and think about it. It helped me enunciate what I believe as a liberal in their language, which is all we hear on media:

How Freedom Became Tyranny


Rightwing libertarians have turned “freedom” into an excuse for greed and exploitation.

By George Monbiot, published in the Guardian 20th December 2011

Freedom: who could object? Yet this word is now used to justify a thousand forms of exploitation. Throughout the rightwing press and blogosphere, among thinktanks and governments, the word excuses every assault on the lives of the poor, every form of inequality and intrusion to which the 1% subject us. How did libertarianism, once a noble impulse, become synonymous with injustice?

In the name of freedom – freedom from regulation – the banks were permitted to wreck the economy. In the name of freedom, taxes for the super-rich are cut. In the name of freedom, companies lobby to drop the minimum wage and raise working hours. In the same cause, US insurers lobby Congress to thwart effective public healthcare; the government rips up our planning laws; big business trashes the biosphere. This is the freedom of the powerful to exploit the weak, the rich to exploit the poor.

Right-wing libertarianism recognises few legitimate constraints on the power to act, regardless of the impact on the lives of others. In the UK it is forcefully promoted by groups like the TaxPayers’ Alliance, the Adam Smith Institute, the Institute of Economic Affairs and Policy Exchange(2). Their conception of freedom looks to me like nothing but a justification for greed.

So why have we been been so slow to challenge this concept of liberty? I believe that one of the reasons is as follows. The great political conflict of our age – between neocons and the millionaires and corporations they support on one side and social justice campaigners and environmentalists on the other – has been mischaracterised as a clash between negative and positive freedoms.


He goes into examples to explain this at the link:

http://www.monbiot.com/2011/12/19/how-freedom-became-tyranny/

I say further, in looking in libertarianism, that as the end result is privatization or corporatism, it is the pretty face of the the first step to total fascist rule as defined by Mussolini and warned about by President Roosevelt. It is the GOP plan. Another person who has spoken against them is Van Jones who has since gone into other realms.



Van Jones spoke the truth and was savaged by the radfcal right. Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck until he became a distraction to what he was trying to do in the Obama administration.

Van Jones: Libertarianism Would Spit in the Face of Dr. King

Former White House adviser Van Jones on Monday defended recent remarks he made against "so-called libertarians" by saying, "I think we have to start punching back."

In a March speech to the Occupy movement in Los Angeles, Jones had called libertarianism a "despicable ideology."

"They say they’re Patriots but they hate everybody in America who looks like us," the former Green Jobs czar explained. "They say they love America but they hate the people, the brown folk, the gays, the lesbians, the people with piercings, ya know ya’ll."

http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/david/van-jones-libertarianism-would-spit-face-dr-

He hasn't gotten a fair interview as the media has pretty much blackballed him since then. But then, we don't have a 'liberal' media when we see such as Rush, Hannity, Beck and others being paid millions every year to fight us.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Jones





This POS is supported by the First Amendment, and the majority of the US HoR.

US House of Representatives total: 435
Republican Majority: 240
Democratic Minority: 190
With 5 vacancies.

Treason lost its meaning in the legal system. Sedition is almost never charged. Elected officials serve at the whim of their constituents and reflect their warped values and venality. Unless this particular POS, just one of many GOP, was literally incarcerated and denied the privilege of his office, he'd be re-elected for this screed. There is an entire generation brought up on the world view espoused by this POS, so he gets a pass.

Besides, he hasn't been charged with anything. There have been Republicans calling for revolution and killing Obama for quite some time now, and nothing has ever been done about it. And as long as they hold majority in states and the House of Representatives, nothing will ever be done.

When we had Democratic majorities in D.C. in the Nixon era, there were enough people to hold him to account. He resigned because he knew their next move was impeachment. They would have rightfully done so, to protect the political system, considering his guilt, which was proved in criminal court. His conspirators went to prison in his stead.

He left office and Ford used his privilege immediately to pardon him for those crimes. Then Carter was elected to get back to where we needed to be and the eternal enemy of democratic government reared its traitorous head again and has never stopped being in control. People that want to blame Obama for the direction this country is in, and has been headed on for over thirty years must be political neophytes or swallowed Fox, libertarian and conspiracy lies of all three media.

This gang has been steadily transforming this country with Koch monies, right wing religion and media. They have been playing on the easily corrupted, with a long term game that has changed the culture of this country. If they weren't so destructive, I'd give them a high five.

I wish that the Section of the 14th you quoted was taken seriously in this country. Proabably less than a 1/3rd of the voters even comprehend the language contained in the Constitution anymore. Most likely, 1/3 believe the Constitution as revised by Falwell, Robertson and every scummy GOP who has a bull horn.




LOL@Time of Useful Consciousness of about 30 seconds...

Face it, folks. Gohmert is correct about Obama's Ottoman tendencies:



Otto von Bismarck and the Welfare State

Germany had a tradition of welfare programs in Prussia and Saxony that began as early as the 1840s. In the 1880s his social insurance programs were the first in the world and became the model for other countries and the basis of the modern welfare state. Bismarck introduced old age pensions, accident insurance, medical care and unemployment insurance. He won conservative support by promising to undercut the appeal of Socialists—the Socialists always voted against his proposals, fearing they would reduce the grievances of the industrial workers. His paternalistic programs won the support of German industry because its goals were to win the support of the working classes for the Empire and reduce the outflow of emigrants to America, where wages were higher but welfare did not exist. Politically, he did win over the Centre Party which represented Catholic workers, but Socialists remained hostile.

Otto von Bismarck and Socialism

Bismarck worried about the growth of the socialist movement—in particular, that of the Social Democratic Party. In 1878, he instituted the Anti-Socialist Laws. Socialist organizations and meetings were forbidden, as was the circulation of socialist literature. Socialist leaders were arrested and tried by police courts. But despite these efforts, the movement steadily gained supporters and seats in the Reichstag. Socialists won seats in the Reichstag by running as independent candidates, unaffiliated with any party, which was allowed by the German Constitution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_von_Bismarck

Once again, Obama is NOT a Socialist and I admit to being disappointed about this. As far as being an Ottoman of the Turkish variety, the only reason I can think Louis considers Obama to be involved in that is skin hue and even that's by no means a sure indicator. No other similarity that I can see.

Wonder if this has made FOX yet... They fell for one before... Or rather, kept it up way too long:

Fox Nation readers confuse Onion article with real news

They scrubbed it after being found out, but the page and comments were preserved:

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/26/fox-nation-readers-confuse-onion-article-real-news/

http://www.theonion.com/articles/frustrated-obama-sends-nation-rambling-75000word-e,18516/

I actually had to show this some RW loons on another site. They had nothing to say after bragging about how it showed what a weak leader Obama was. Another story they tried was also found to be false. Most RWers and CTers don't believe in linking their stuff or looking closely, and their ignorance shows:

Three-Year-Old Onion Video Resurfaces As Real News

The video in question is of ‘Rep. John Haller of Pennsylvania’ reading out the “homeland terrorist preparedness bill” in which he keeps having to interrupt himself to say “classified.” A Google search quickly reveals that neither Haller nor the bill exist, though should you look closely at the video you will also see the Onion insignia on the lower right-hand corner, which probably should have tipped people off to begin with. Alas, this did not stop the video from making the rounds under the title “Martial Law Plans Revealed.” Watch below.


http://www.mediaite.com/online/three-year-old-onion-video-resurfaces-as-real-news/



From the video description. Neither he nor most of the viewers realized this was a hoax. And it lives on and on as a chilling CT nightmare. It's still being played out, every sign that it is true is grasped upon by Patriots, Paulites, Teabaggers, etc.

Uploaded by Truthzonetvcom on Jul 22, 2008

Rise of the 99% Part 1


http://www.facebook.com/akyastv

What are you waiting for? Now is the time to STAND UP for yourself, to be BOLD, be CREATIVE, be RADICAL To Dream BIG, IMAGINE, Feel the fear but DO IT! Anyway its time to Question Expert Authority, ASK hard questions, PROPOSE and DEMAND solutions. To Participate and AGITATE. DISOBEY if you must. To VISUALISE and Organise. To KILL the fear spreading Media - EDUCATE and INFORM yourself and Others. NOW is the time to invest in HOPE.

To cultivate LOVE To Give Thanks for what we have and to help those that Haven't. We Must DANCE, PLAY, ENJOY ourselves. TRANSFORM your situation no matter how bad it is. It can be done, EAT WELL, REST, MEDITATE. PROTECT yourself. BECOME a SOUL WARRIOR. Don't Apoligise for being a DREAMER - we need MORE DREAMERS. PERSIST Resist and ignore the begrudgers, hold firm to your vision. Don't make up excuses or get caught up in Blame. In the Game of them and Us RESPECT Everyone, even if you dont like them. Enemies are Great Teachers. TRANSCEND, RISE, Reach for the STARS.

Don't take yourself too seriously. LAUGH at yourself. LOVE YOURSELF. You are WONDERFUL if you let yourself BE. ABANDON JUDGEMENT, Age, Roles, Stereotypes. Take RISKS. Drop LEFT RIGHT and RELIGIOUS Dogma. THINK FOR YOURSELF. Take control of your Diet, Money, Home, Family, Work Spend Time in NATURE. Listen to your Gut, Instinct, Intuition, Heart. Go offline to get ONLINE. Take QUIET TIME for you, to WRITE, DRAW. EXPERIMENT. Learn a SONG, Call a Meeting, Start a Petition. BUILD COMMUNITY. See what happens. SHARE. Take your time. Slow Down - Small and Slow are POWERFUL and BEAUTIFUL. Wake up to REALITY. It's not that bad. If it is THEN CHANGE IT. Don't wait for others to do it. TELL OTHERS, JOIN them, ASK for HELP.

SING IT LOUD. BE Proud you're not a Zombie caught up on the harsh production line of Commuting, Work, Shopping, Consumption and SLEEP. You're MUCH MORE ALIVE This is not a PRACTICE RUN, THIS IS YOUR REVOLUTION TO MAKE IT HAPPEN THERE ARE ALWAYS MORE POSSIBLITIES THAT YOU THINK! WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?


I think only one comment on the page realized what it was, the uploader never did. I used to talk to a lot of these characters back then and saw this on a message board and it was part of what turned people against the Democratic Party and Obama. This is a parallel reality in the USA.

It's early Grover Nordquist motto. It's also a Libertarian saying.

Grover later went with 'We'll get the government small enough to drown it in a bathtub.'

In other words, replace the government with a fascist system, all elected functions destroyed, all power in the private sector. An amazing amount of Americans accept that 'government should be run as a business' but business is not designed to be a moral enterprise, but a profitable one. They use appealing terms such as liberty, freedom and choice. Think 'Right To Work' states and what that really implies, past the first sales pitch, to those living there in the long run.

A government derives its authority by the people seeing it as, for lack of a better word, a moral institution, protecting the rights of all against the bigger powers in society. Budgets are called 'moral documents' as they reflect the values of the country and say a great deal about priorities.

We've had our priorities off kilter for a long time, and I see it as mainly a reflection of media. There is no greater teacher in modern society than the media. The effect of moving pictures, symbols and sounds on emotions and the knowledge given or withheld literally shapes our lives.

We need to have a source to translate many things but we are trapped inside a bubble. It has been infested with the virus of militarism, greed and bigotry. The firms that profit from things that are harmful to people and the planet, own all the sources of media and will not allow anything to be said that does not keep us believing the way they want us to. It was not always so.

Here's a few I found. This is bugging me now:

So why the intense focus by Right Wingers on Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002523731#post8

http://www.alternet.org/story/154839/some_red_states_are_already_running_out_of_water

The goal of Bethel, Koch, and others is privatization of all resources. Water and roadways are chief on their list for a neverending flow of wealth to them. Example in Michigan:

Anybody know who is behind this "Bridge to Nowhere" stuff?

There's a lot on this thread about TPTB moving in on Michigan resource, as I'm sure you know the story of the beach sold off in Benton Harbor, but not in this thread. DU search is acting up.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php/www.scn.org/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=159x15085

We must emphasize that many who don't 'pay taxes' today, have paid in the past (elderly, disabled)

Or will live to 'pay taxes' in the future (elderly, unemployed, some disabled, etc.) Throwing all of these people away dishonors the past, present and future of this country and the Founding Fathers who intended to redress the inequalities of this nation caused by empire building. Mitt and his friends have used them, and want to discard them. Among those not paying taxes are those retired on military and recieving help. Romney is preaching division, people being better than each other to permit him to destroy the safety net. And that's good for his bottom line, not Americans.

47% is RW talking point from hate radio, the number's real. Here is some data and a rant:

That is the Libertarian Party platform, that they can survive on charity, and the government must go away. Not only that, but Social Security must go away, which is what is keeping millions of people right now from being hungry and homeless...

We are talking about well over a hundred million people getting the essentials of life right now. Not everyone needs these long-term:

In 2012, over 56 million Americans will receive $778 billion in Social Security benefits.

http://www.ssa.gov/pressoffice/basicfact.htm

Medicaid is the nation’s largest health program in terms of number of recipients, serving 56 million to Medicare’s 48 million.

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/health/diseasesconditionsandhealthtopics/medicaid/index.html

More than a third of Americans lived in households receiving government assistance in 2010.

http://money.cnn.com/2012/02/07/news/economy/government_assistance/index.htm

More than 46.6 Million Americans Participated in SNAP in June 2012

http://frac.org/reports-and-resources/snapfood-stamp-monthly-participation-data/

The Libertarian Party Platform on Welfare:

http://www.lp.org/issues/poverty-and-welfare

The Libertarian Party Platform on Health care:


http://www.ontheissues.org/celeb/Libertarian_Party_Health_Care.htm

More Libertarian, Ron Paul, Tea Bagger ideas that Democrats do not believe in:

Libertarians believe that taxes should be abolished along with all the programs and departments that taxes fund. Libertarians don’t believe in Medicare. Libertarians don’t believe in Social Security. Libertarians don’t believe that there should be fire departments, police departments, public transportation, grants for education, unemployment, disability, food stamps, and every other type of government system and assistance that you can think of.

Libertarians wish to eliminate taxes in order to eliminate all of the above programs and more. Libertarians believe that without these taxes, individuals will have more money in their pockets and will be able to afford all of these things. If someone is unable to provide themselves or their family with school, health care, or food, people need to rely on family members, church, or a private charity.

Libertarians believe that government’s role in the market should be to protect property owner’s rights. There should be no FDA, equal employment opportunities, unions, minimum wage, payroll taxes, safe food handling requirements, consumer protections, regulations that protect against financial conflicts of interest and fraud, and business licenses.

Libertarians believe that business owners should have the right to deny entry to minorities and/or women and/or people with disabilities, if that is how business owners wish to run their businesses.


http://deni-edwards.hubpages.com/hub/Defining-a-Libertarian-Ron-Pauls-Political-Platform

Social Security and Medicaid keeps millions of people the Romneys will never meet, and have no idea exist, off the streets. They disapprove of those who are doing the work to keep them alive and well, because it's a 'statist' thing, not ideologically pure, easy for them.

Democrats are and will continue to help many more people than private groups ever will. The GOP who are Libertarians, plan to end all government so there will no votes needed, just be connected to the biggest boss you can find.

Here's another link:

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2012/02/federal-benefits-able-bodied-workers

You must not have listened to the part of the convention where both the mentally and physically

Disabled and what is helping millions were the focus, with rousing cheers to protect their current and future housing and medical care. Bill Clinton and others were clear about what would happen to the mentally disabled under a Romney and Ryan plan. Which is the Libertarian plan:



I read a thread where someone saying Occupy runs soup kitchens and are the only ones who care about the homeless, disabled, etc. That is the Libertarian Party platform, that they can survive on charity, and the government must go away. Not only that, but Social Security must go away, which is what is keeping millions of people right now from being hungry and homeless.

Instead, the people inside the convention center know and work with these folks daily. These are the people doing the work, and not tearing down what works. The numbers I quote with links below show the many millions they serve and how they are helped by Democratic policies, which have been hampered by Republicans for decades. I want to point out for those who are not familiar with these programs, that some overlap and some do not.

We are talking about well over a hundred million people getting the essentials of life right now. Not everyone needs these. How many millions of people is Occupy serving at the soup kitchen?

I wanted to see the similarities and contrasts with the Occupy movement, Libertarian and Democratic Parties. Here is some info:

In 2012, over 56 million Americans will receive $778 billion in Social Security benefits.

http://www.ssa.gov/pressoffice/basicfact.htm

Medicaid is the nation’s largest health program in terms of number of recipients, serving 56 million to Medicare’s 48 million.

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/health/diseasesconditionsandhealthtopics/medicaid/index.html

More than a third of Americans lived in households receiving government assistance in 2010.

http://money.cnn.com/2012/02/07/news/economy/government_assistance/index.htm

More than 46.6 Million Americans Participated in SNAP in June 2012

http://frac.org/reports-and-resources/snapfood-stamp-monthly-participation-data/

The Libertarian Party Platform on Welfare:

http://www.lp.org/issues/poverty-and-welfare

The Libertarian Party Platform on Health care:


http://www.ontheissues.org/celeb/Libertarian_Party_Health_Care.htm

More Libertarian, Ron Paul, Tea Bagger ideas that Democrats do not believe in:

Libertarians believe that taxes should be abolished along with all the programs and departments that taxes fund. Libertarians don’t believe in Medicare. Libertarians don’t believe in Social Security. Libertarians don’t believe that there should be fire departments, police departments, public transportation, grants for education, unemployment, disability, food stamps, and every other type of government system and assistance that you can think of.

Libertarians wish to eliminate taxes in order to eliminate all of the above programs and more. Libertarians believe that without these taxes, individuals will have more money in their pockets and will be able to afford all of these things. If someone is unable to provide themselves or their family with school, health care, or food, people need to rely on family members, church, or a private charity.

Libertarians believe that government’s role in the market should be to protect property owner’s rights. There should be no FDA, equal employment opportunities, unions, minimum wage, payroll taxes, safe food handling requirements, consumer protections, regulations that protect against financial conflicts of interest and fraud, and business licenses.

Libertarians believe that business owners should have the right to deny entry to minorities and/or women and/or people with disabilities, if that is how business owners wish to run their businesses.


http://deni-edwards.hubpages.com/hub/Defining-a-Libertarian-Ron-Pauls-Political-Platform

Which is essentially what the Occupy social program being touted here is, so they can make a soup kitchen for those they find on the streets, then go home when they feel like it, because at the end of the day. they do have homes and food, and can stop camping out. That there are those who are not getting services, is not the fault of the Democrats, but Republicans.

It is they who cut the funding, because like Libertarians, they do not believe in taxing and paying for those who fall through the cracks, just let them line up for the soup kitchen. The people who get the experience of feeding someone who is homeless, go home afterward.

Those who are determined to change the basis of society, which Occupy says it wants to do, are not in waiting for the future, but involved right now as the needs of the people cannot wait. People die when the government shuts down these services, while others argue.

Social Security and Medicaid keeps millions of people Occupiers will never meet, and have no idea exist, off the streets. Yet they disapprove of those who are doing the work to keep them alive and well, because it's a 'statist' thing. Because it's not ideologically pure enough. Compromises are made, too, which those who know people in the system know keep people alive now. People in need of a place to live, medical care and food to eat don't deserve to have to wait for people to visit and serve them food, they need it everyday, they need a healthy living place and the security of knowing that it's going to keep coming. They need the government to do it, not individuals.

But those of us who are Democrats know that taking care of millions of people is not something should be dependent on private charitable acts. That a social infrastructure needs to be in place for people that the vast majority of people do not know, have never met and whose needs are not temporary and cannot be taken care of during a few days visiting them and some that most people do not want to spend any time with, period.

The solutions were inside the convention, and just by a show of the numbers I posted here prove that Democrats are and do and will continue to help many more people than Occupy ever will. Occupy refuses to accept the many thousands of public workers, unions, the Democratic Party and the concept working inside the evil government and voting.

So do Libertarians, as they have a plan to end all government so there will be no votes needed. All back to the good old boys and corporations to say how our lives will be led. The Libertarian conquest of Occupy is complete and their vision is just fine for those who can afford to stand tall and mock the people doing the work.

Ironic how Occupy telling people to not vote for Obama and Democrats reflects exactly and facilitates the goals of Romney and Ryan, the Libertarian party and the GOP/Koch brothers plans for the poor, elderly, disabled and homeless.
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