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freshwest

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Member since: Fri Dec 10, 2010, 10:36 PM
Number of posts: 45,658

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Agree with Juror #1. Seems a broad brush statement about DUers.

I don't enjoy any of this and sure Obama doesn't either. He's still stuck with cleaning up the mess.

We may want to pretend that saying 'Sorry, okay! Excuse us, we'll just go away now, please don't hurt us, we changed our mind and want you to...' will fix things.

We sowed the wind and will reap the whirlwind, that is the nature of it. Does a tornado let the unwilling escape because they don't want to go?

BushCo left a tragedy that must be addressed, since it will not let us be. People on the right and left want a hit and run, but I doubt ISIL agree with that:

‘Apocalyptic’ Isis beyond anything we've seen, say US defence chiefs

Senior Pentagon officials describe militants as ‘apocalyptic’ group that will need to be defeated but maintain limited strikes are sufficient


...(General) Dempsey, an Iraq veteran, has long been sceptical of US military involvement in the Syrian conflict, citing among other reasons the threat to US pilots from dictator Bashar al-Assad’s air defences. He has frustrated those who advocated American involvement in the two neighbouring wars, such as hawkish Republican senator John McCain, who in June called on Obama to fire Dempsey, saying he “has done nothing but invent ways for us not to be engaged.”

Echoing the White House’s stated position, Dempsey said the US needed “a coalition in the region that takes on the task of defeating Isis over time,” something the administration this week has put effort into broadening and strengthening. But the group’s ultimate defeat, the general said, would only come “when it is rejected by the over 20 million disenfranchised Sunnis that happen to reside between Damascus and Baghdad.”

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/21/isis-us-military-iraq-strikes-threat-apocalyptic/print

From Baghdad to Damascus connects the Mediterranean and Persia Gulf. While no doubt only a small percentage of the 20 million displaced people support ISIL, there are a significant number of refugees from the Iraq War. We created their misery by going into Iraq and abusing the trust of our WW2 Allies, like a bull in a china shop.

We need to think of the needs of these people. They want a new home and ISIL is promising not only that, but glory as well. The victims in the Middle East aren't going to let us off the hook because we want to take our little red wagon and go home. There's no way to wash our hands, pretending we are absolved of all our sins. We will have to work this out.

Clearly, Obama has been stalling the PNAC gang for years, intent on getting away from the Middle East and being dependent on their oil. That's why he's pushed for alteratives so hard and why they've fought him on it and everything else. He is working to end the fossil fuel world oligarchy and they know it. A quick read of their actions shows this.

The PNAC crew is restless and has decided to throw everything plus the kitchen sink to get Democrats to stay away from the polls to carry out their own Apocalyptic vision on the Middle East. And people think Bush was insane?

We ain't seen nothing yet.

"Your love is the ultimate rebuke to the hatred of those who attacked us that bright, blue morning."

~ Barack Obama.

Love is as strong as death, as hard as Hell. Death separates the soul from the body, but love separates all things from the soul.

~ Meister Eckhart

For there are these three things that endure: Faith, Hope and Love, but the greatest of these is Love.

~ 1 Corinthians 13:13

Those pictures capture the freedom of love. Thanks, Cha!

Democrats know their own party platform and history. Once more:

Dismissing the rights and concerns of people of color and women is reactionary. It is way more reactionary than Third Way. There is nothing progressive or liberal about it, and I don't consider people who do so to be leftists. Period.

~ BainsBane

MLK, Jr. predicted somethimg like this. Nearing the promise, those who hate Equality will burn the

house down so that there is nothing left to have.

That is the attitude being taught by the Koch kiss-up media and their minions the GOP and Libertarians.

They feel they're being robbed and want to take everything away before those they consider to be beneath them get a chance at being Equal.

Everything they claim to believe is a fraud. It was always about power and wealth, not ideals or principles. Those were just the Emperor's clothes to make the continuing theft easier to take.

I'll be posting something about where the real power is in the USA later.

It's a tribute to the emotional support of fans on the players. Very popular in Seattle:

Boeing unveils stunning airplane for Seattle Seahawks and 12th Man



http://gamedayr.com/sports/boeing-seattle-seahawks-12th-man-airplane-96273/

It's flown in many places, on vehicles, places of business, public icons:



The players like it:



They gave one to Obama:



Just bought an official #24 Marshawn Lynch (Beast Mode) jersey for the kid, but I've got a crush on #25:




Many in Scandinavia and Puget Sound do... It's great if one is able to afford it...



That's a slice of Puget Sound and why we have a lot of ferries here. Some can only be accessed by smaller watercraft. though. My Swedish uncle lived on one of the islands surrounding Stockholm growing up and they have ferries:



Stockholm, Sweden.
Satellite image of Stockholm, the capital city of Sweden. North is at top. Stockholm is situated on 14 islands on the east coast of Sweden where Lake Malaren meets the Baltic Sea. Forested areas are dark green, bare ground is brown, urban areas are grey, and water is black. Image created using NaturalVue data obtained from the Landsat 7 satellite.

Release details: Model release not available. Property release not required.

http://www.sciencephoto.com/media/102699/enlarge

You'll be living island life in a few years... or decades, I guess. Wonder if either side of the Golden Gate bridge will be flooded?

My dad lived in SF in the thirties and was in the parade marching when it opened. Just think of all the ferry rides you'll enjoy!

As the last ice age began to end, glaciers retreated, 'land' connections were lost as sea levels rose in the Atlantic and Pacific. In geological terms, this is not that big a thing except for us poor things trying find a place to live!

Hopefully this will be a long process with plenty of time for everyone to get re-located in time.

+1 And Iraq and the Kurds want us there... But not as occupiers. Nigeria doesn't want us to help.

We're still staggering from the hubris of Bush-Cheney. We will never recover to do such a thing again. This is more like a policing action.

No matter what we do, it will be extremely distasteful to all Americans, and Obama. This is not what he ran for office to do, it's part of the Augean stables left for him to clean. I see him as very reluctant.

ISIL presents a generational challenge to our existence, but I'm not saying we will be able to do much this century except encourage those who surround it now to contain it. The world is changing no matter what we think.

The idea floated that ISIL has only 20 thousand at its command is wrong. Try something between that and 20 million, and if only a tiny percentage of those millions join ISIL, more will be born daily from the forms of sex slavery and forced marriage and indoctrination of the coming generations that ISIL is tutoring.

This is long term planning. Americans have the attention span of a gnat. We can't even make a 5-year plan the way that the USSR did, can't make decades of plans like China, certainly can't equal the centuries of the people of the Middle East in strategy. We whine and squeal at years of warfare when the nations of the East have had wars that lasted a hundred years... even more, as some were longer but not officially declared wars.

As nations fell and people fled or occupied various places, it's kept on. Long, bloody and personal. Just like ISIL. We have been put in the position by our Allies to use aircraft and other means of warfare, defined since WW2. People on the right and the left want a quick fix, hit and run, and leave.

‘Apocalyptic’ Isis beyond anything we've seen, say US defence chiefs

Senior Pentagon officials describe militants as ‘apocalyptic’ group that will need to be defeated but maintain limited strikes are sufficient


...(General) Dempsey, an Iraq veteran, has long been sceptical of US military involvement in the Syrian conflict, citing among other reasons the threat to US pilots from dictator Bashar al-Assad’s air defences. He has frustrated those who advocated American involvement in the two neighbouring wars, such as hawkish Republican senator John McCain, who in June called on Obama to fire Dempsey, saying he “has done nothing but invent ways for us not to be engaged.”

Echoing the White House’s stated position, Dempsey said the US needed “a coalition in the region that takes on the task of defeating Isis over time,” something the administration this week has put effort into broadening and strengthening. But the group’s ultimate defeat, the general said, would only come “when it is rejected by the over 20 million disenfranchised Sunnis that happen to reside between Damascus and Baghdad.”

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/21/isis-us-military-iraq-strikes-threat-apocalyptic/print

From Baghdad to Damascus connects the Mediterranean and Persia Gulf. The region was one empire during the Abbasid Caliphate, lasting from 850CE (850BC) through 1000AD:



http://www.fsmitha.com/h3/islam13.htm

While no doubt only a small percentage of the 20 million displaced people support ISIL, there are a significant number of refugees from the Iraq War. We created this as a nation by going into Iraq and abusing the trust of our WW2 Allies, like a bull in a china shop.

But we need to think of the needs of these people. They want a new home and ISIL is promising not only that, but glory as well. The cost of that vision will be high on those who don't fall in line. The region spawned centuries of empires and caliphates. They know and some believe in it.

The players in the Middle East aren't going to let us off the hook because we want to take our little red wagon and go home. There's no way to wash our hands, pretending we are absolved of all our sins. This was Bush's intent and not an error on his part. We will pay for this one way or the other, and we claim we can't afford. I don't think the universe works that way.

We are just shadows in the grass next to their history. Minor irritants who were drawn into a drama that has been going on for millenia in the Old World or the Eastern Hemisphere, no matter what we want to call it. Tag, we're it in the new series.

I really hate thinking this way.

It's only a delusion if it doesn't come to pass. The caliphate is a tangible vision..

Sorry, but I am going to trot out this post of mine but there's a background leading to that speed and acceptance, coming from a different way of looking at the world:

Caliphate



A caliphate (in Arabic: خلافة‎ khilāfa, meaning "succession") is an Islamic state led by a supreme religious and political leader known as a caliph – i.e. "successor" – to Muhammad. The succession of Muslim empires that have existed in the Muslim world are usually described as "caliphates". Conceptually, a caliphate represents a sovereign polity (state) of the entire Muslim faithful (the Ummah, i.e. a sovereign nation state) ruled by a single caliph under the Constitution of Medina and Islamic law (sharia).

In its earliest days, the first caliphate, the Rashidun Caliphate, exhibited elements of direct democracy (shura). It was led, at first, by Muhammad's immediate disciples and family as a continuation of the religious systems he had introduced.

The Sunni branch of Islam stipulates that as a head of state, a caliph should be elected by Muslims or their representatives. Followers of Shia Islam, however, believe a caliph should be an Imam chosen by God (Allah) from the Ahl al-Bayt (the "Family of the House", Muhammad's direct descendents). From the end of the Rashidun period until 1924, caliphates, sometimes two at a single time, real and illusory, were ruled by dynasties. The first of these was the Umayyad dynasty, followed by the several other sometimes competing claimants and finally the Ottoman dynasty. Though non-political, the Ahmadiyya Caliphate had been the only caliphate in existence for over a century. In 2014, the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant proclaimed another.

The caliphate was "the core leader concept of Sunni Islam, by the consensus of the Muslim majority in the early centuries".


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caliphate

Look at all the countries we are talking about today. Israel, Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia and the little alphabet nations there.

Note the Ottoman Empire at its height. We're talking about all of the current nations as well as those that bordered it now:



Ottoman Empire (/ˈɒtəmən/; Ottoman Turkish: دَوْلَتِ عَلِيّهٔ عُثمَانِیّه, Devlet-i Aliyye-i Osmâniyye, Modern Turkish: Osmanlı İmparatorluğu), also historically referred to as the Turkish Empire or Turkey, was an empire founded by Oghuz Turks under Osman Bey in north-western Anatolia in 1299. With the conquest of Constantinople by Mehmed II in 1453, the Ottoman state was transformed into an empire.

During the 16th and 17th centuries, in particular at the height of its power under the reign of Suleiman the Magnificent, the Ottoman Empire was a powerful multinational, multilingual empire controlling much of Southeast Europe, Western Asia, the Caucasus, North Africa, and the Horn of Africa. At the beginning of the 17th century the empire contained 32 provinces and numerous vassal states. Some of these were later absorbed into the empire, while others were granted various types of autonomy during the course of centuries.

With Constantinople as its capital and control of lands around the Mediterranean basin, the Ottoman Empire was at the centre of interactions between the Eastern and Western worlds for six centuries. The empire was dissolved in the aftermath of World War I, leading to the emergence of the new state of Turkey in the Ottoman Anatolian heartland, as well as the creation of modern Balkan and Middle Eastern states.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Empire

As the Ottoman Empire collapsed, the Armenian Genocide occured and other nations were made. The Russians are tending to historical factions there.

That eventually included the state of Israel. Contrary to a mantra often repeated, Israel was not a gift from Europe and the USA for Nazi atrocities.

It had been contemplated in 1917:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration

And also in 1926:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration_of_1926

True, it was an European creation, as were most of the other countries that evolved out of the fall of the Ottoman Empire. It just so happened that the rulers were different, is all that happened to that huge chunk of the world's surface. Looking at it in those terms explains the resistance of the parties involved to listen to the United Nations. Their viewpoint extends many centuries beyond the founding of that organization, or even the definitions of the nation state.

One side pushed one way over centuries, and then the other pushed back. We have movements in all the western nations, Russia, China, the islands and in the Americas that call for a world caliphate. This is not a conspiracy theory. It's how people organize themselves for what they think is a good thing.

Those who believe in setting up or expanding a caliphate believe it is a great plan to bring about world peace. There are costs along the road to empire. ISIL is showing us what they'll be. They want to bring back that empire and their version of peace in which all the people will agree on everything they say is the right thing to do.

The caliphate(s) once extended further and was contracted only by armed resistance. It was during long, bloody centuries. IMO, America is much too young to grasp this.

Our idea of how those regions in the two images here should fit onto a map, is not theirs. It was only a temporary hold. They have historical precedent for what they are doing. The more lands they can put in their resurrected empire, the more influence they'll have around the globe to establish their peace.

I don't know if they are right or if they will prevail. I've talked to eager young people online who think it's beautiful and promote it with messianic zeal, very happy to convert others to what they think is a good and holy thing.

It makes sense to those who believe in this. Those who don't, either accept their doing it or oppose it or try to escape it. I've known people from Egypt, Lebanon and other nations who moved to the USA to get away.

Some Americans say nothing will change their own lives. They may be right about it all. But I think they're unrealistic, because in history people don't stop wanting because other ignore their movement. That's not how the world works in the long term.

There always seems to be something amiss in periods of peace. A lack of justice, most likely, so people continue to make war with each other.

Just a few things to consider without any judgment on my part and I doubt anything I could do would change the outcome of these things. And some may not even respect Wikipedia, either.

http://metamorphosis.democraticunderground.com/10025357236#post23

I see no will expressed by Americans to stop this. Obama's limited action on this is meeting howls of derision from all sides. His latest speech is simply re-iterating what he said at the NATO summit in Wales, which I've posted along with the latest one.

Americans will vote on what their future will be in less than 60 days. Not deciding (or not voting) is still making a choice. I don't see us as up to the challenge, personally. The will is not there. No more than it was in the Thirties. I hope the re-post here for you clarifies my POV.

JMHO.

+1,000. He had to go for the cheap shot. As The Magistrate said:

Anyone who confuses legal and political equality with identity of talents and character has never thought for two minutes consecutively about either thing.

~ The Magistrate

Goes for skin color, too, Mr. Moore. It's racism to demand he live up to your idea of what a black man is supposed to do, as if he was your property. Back off!

This is genius at work, pure purpose:



Yes, Michael Moore, he's a better man and much wiser than you will ever be. Just keep screeching, it only makes you look bad, not him.

McCain is a charlatan. Obama is a genius. Sorry, Johnny!



Obama's mind is focused, working in full gear and they are terrified:



McCain thinks this is presidential:



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